Adding flavor to 3.5

[tricktroller]

Hey folks. This is a post about a list I have been working on for my Nerd Nights. I thought I'd share it and see what you guys think. This is a list of classes additions that I have added to a game I am running (and probably future games).

The list is for most of the base classes barring the Tome books and Magic of Incarnum. I probably forgot one or two along the way.

The idea of the list is to give such a great old game some new life.

Each class has three options to pick from and each of those options either "should" bring the class up to tier 3 or allow classes like sorcerer/psion to have some class features beyond just spellcasting.

I've also pretty much banned multiclassing for this game unless someone has a specific character progression they want, in which case they will have to earn their second class. Also if they do gain the second class they don't get the class additions.

So with that I will leave it to you guys to give it a nice little critique. Tell me if you see any glaringly broken or crap options.

Please also keep in mind that the list is incomplete at the moment and I am also open to suggestions.

Thanks for your time!
This is the link you are looking for. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/16uU4hMWbtDltF84SPBtnHTCN9G5ZPIFLtUtxoLQXI3E/edit?usp=sharing)

[Venger]

We'll have a more complete set of commentary when your link's up, but off the bat:

Never ban multiclassing. it's one of 3.x's strong suits, allowing you to customize your character and make one that's unique. It also lets you leave a class when it stops pulling its weight. Shackling someone to something like sorcerer or fighter demonstrably makes the game less fun, so don't do it.

Sorcerer is a t2 class. it doesn't need help beating the tar out of weaker options, like the initiators and meldshapers. if anything, they need extra goodies to narrow (but not close, obviously) the gap if you want everyone on equal footing.

[ATHATH]

Never ban multiclassing. it's one of 3.x's strong suits, allowing you to customize your character and make one that's unique.
Seconding this. Why DO you want to ban multiclassing? If it's because you fear your players being too powerful, why not just ask them to not abuse your new system, instead of limiting character options?

[Venger]

Seconding this. Why DO you want to ban multiclassing? If it's because you fear your players being too powerful, why not just ask them to not abuse your new system, instead of limiting character options?

It's not about power. It's because he hasn't playtested the system himself and wants to force them to play x classes from 1-20 so he can see how all the extra powers (which I'm assuming come online at each level like dead levels, bloodlines, or weapons of legacy) work. This is no excuse, and you shouldn't do this.

[tricktroller]

So to address your concerns,

I am not doing this to force play testing, and I am not doing this out of fear.

I consistently run munchkin level games for people and we have been playing for 20+ years.

I am not afraid to DM for powerful characters, a s matter of fact I prefer higher powered characters, it makes it easier to throw things at the party without having to worry about killing everyone. I kill players form time to time but usually the player gets resurrected and the game continues.

The point of doing no multi classing in this game unless someone has a specific goal in mind is that it isn't necessary.

Most options you can think of I have hopefully achieved without the need to dip and garbage dive through books and third party sources.

Almost any melee character can have access to pounce now without having to dip a level in barbarian for instance.

The idea of making people not dip is so they get to see the benefits of staying a single class, and beyond some very specific capstones or PRC abilities I am hoping to have any option available to the players.


Again, I don't mind them multiclassing if they have a build they want to go for, but I tried to think of combinations of classes and PRCs and make abilities that would mimic them at least closely.

Now, the link has been posted and it should work. Please feel free to send me your criticisms of the list and not the way I intend to run the next game, one in a long string I have been running out of my house for the last 6 years.

Thank you.

[tricktroller]

Also, I want to make one thing very very clear here.

This is not about bringing everyone to the same level. I have a tier 3 system I have already built and run that I love that does this. This is about taking 3.5 and giving every class in it (Or at least most of them) more flavor, more uniqueness, and more options.

[Karl Aegis]

So you've just made everyone a full caster. I guess that works.

[tricktroller]

While funny, your post is not helpful.

[Uckleverry]

I'm not sure if the full casters like psions and clerics need additional class features. Their spells and powers are their class features, and they're amazing. They already get the best class features in the entire game.

Honestly, I think you could even consider giving the non-full caster classes (including psychic warrior and paladin and the like) all three options at the same time. They'd be more appealing and competitive options at higher levels with all those extra abilities and features. Compared to classes like psion, cleric, and sorcerer, that is.

[Fuzzy McCoy]

Does multiclassing just base classes, or does it extend to prestige classes too?

[tricktroller]

Like I said it's not even really a ban on multi classing. It's more that I don't want people dipping in and out of classes to get sixteen different abilities while being a useless character.

Prestige classes are allowed but most of them are unnecessary unless you are going for dual casting.

[Telonius]

One item for clarification. On the Fighter list, Wield Oversized Weapon and Strong Arm. For Wield Oversized Weapon, that sounds like it's just letting you attack with a Greatsword one-handed, and if it hits it's just 1x Str bonus to damage and not 1.5 like usual. But for Strong Arm you could attack with a Longsword and get 1.5x Str, and all the bonuses for things like disarming and such. Is that the intent? Either way you should probably spell out exactly what bonuses do and don't carry over.

Warrior's Challenge - one of the Knight's Challenge problems is that the number of times you get it, as well as the DCs, are mostly based on your Knight level. Is this based on level of the class that gave you the ability, BAB, or something else?

[tricktroller]

Yes. You could use a spear or a greatsword one handed. If you took strongarm as well it would be wielded in one hand and act as a two handed weapon. 1.5x str damage and double power attack returns, etc.

[tricktroller]

Warrior's Challenge - one of the Knight's Challenge problems is that the number of times you get it, as well as the DCs, are mostly based on your Knight level. Is this based on level of the class that gave you the ability, BAB, or something else?

It would be based on the class level of whatever you took to gain the option. So if you are a 3rd level fighter picking the ability it would be third level. If you multiclassed into sorcerer it would stop increasing.

[D20ragon]

I really like this, may try it in a game of mine. If I do, I'll let you know how it goes.

[tricktroller]

Thanks! I'll post the updated list when I finish it completely.

[Calthropstu]

Meh, looks kinda meh to me, piling more mandatory options and rules onto a game with already tens of thousands of rules seems counterproductive to me.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Like I said it's not even really a ban on multi classing. It's more that I don't want people dipping in and out of classes to get sixteen different abilities while being a useless character.

Prestige classes are allowed but most of them are unnecessary unless you are going for dual casting.

This sounds like a problem more easily fixed by the age-old board standby of 'talking to your players about the problem' than pushing out some semi-radical changes to fix a problem that isn't actually a mechanical one, but a choice-related issue.

Ever heard the saying "The car's fine, but there's a loose nut behind the wheel." ?