Advice on playing a 5e rogue?

[argyle1425]

I wondering if anyone has any advice on playing a low-level halfling rogue.
So, I’m playing in a semi-realistic campaign. Here are the constraints:
Lying mostly doesn’t work. The encounters are on railroads and, eg, recruiting or suborning henchmen will result in their mysterious deaths. Lying would probably work in instances where it would work on a representative human being, unless it impacts encounter difficulty. Disguise results in: halflings are uncommon, so you’re obviously not one of us.
Stealth checks are rolled with disadvantage because halflings can’t see in the dark.
Hide checks are either really high difficulty or at disadvantage because using people as cover is unrealistic.
Lockpicking works, except crowbars are plentiful and work better.
Usable objects are very scarce.
Oh, and jumping and climbing require an athletics check, with a net modifier of -1.
Sneak attack mostly works, albeit, realistically, most mobs are smart enough to target the halfling in leather.
Available subtypes are: thief.

The GM's really good - just I'm kind of bored because there doesn't seem to be much to do besides sit next to the fighter and stab people.

[Theodoxus]

I would not play this game. "Realistic" isn't what D&D emulates, in any capacity. That's just nerfing halflings for no reason and rogues right along with it.

I have no advice, because although halfling rogue is my favorite race/class combo to play in 5E - what you're trying to play isn't 5E... I don't know how to help you...

[Strill]

Does he tell Wizards that they can't cast spells because that's unrealistic? Does he tell Fighters that they can't get extra attacks or have hit points, because that's unrealistic? D&D characters are designed to emulate legendary heroes like Achilles or Batman or the Knights of the Round Table. They're not supposed to be realistic, they're supposed to be superhuman.

This DM sounds like garbage. For one, he sounds like he has no idea how class balance works, since if he did, he'd realize that Rogues are already fairly low on damage, and don't need to be nerfed at all. Stuff like giving you disadvantage on stealth checks or setting the difficulty arbitrarily high is just insulting since he's arbitrarily changing the rules specifically to screw you over. Rogues are balanced around having advantage each turn from hiding. Furthermore, his changes are not just screwing up balance, but they're also convoluted. A -1 penalty to Athletics checks for climbing is relatively insignificant, and annoying to remember, which is why 5th edition did away with those kinds of modifiers in the first place.


Lying mostly doesn’t work. The encounters are on railroads and, eg, recruiting or suborning henchmen will result in their mysterious deaths. Lying would probably work in instances where it would work on a representative human being, unless it impacts encounter difficulty. Disguise results in: halflings are uncommon, so you’re obviously not one of us.It sounds like he also has no imagination, and has never read a fantasy novel, nor heard any mythical stories. The heroes cleverly talking their way out of trouble is a staple of every mythology that's ever existed. As far as Disguise goes, your halfling could disguise himself as a hunched-over old human. Just wear your cloak over your backpack and lean forward.

Regardless, you shouldn't have to tiptoe around your DM like this. The DM should be working WITH you to come up with interesting things for you to do, and to encourage you to think of creative solutions to problems. Everything you've described indicates to me that the DM is either incompetent, or is working antagonistically towards you.

[Battlebooze]

If this is the only game in town, I'd just get my rogue killed and make a new human fighter.

At this point, you're really just playing a stubby fighter with weak weapons, low hitpoints and bad armor.

[JBPuffin]

I wondering if anyone has any advice on playing a low-level halfling rogue.
So, I’m playing in a semi-realistic campaign. Here are the constraints:
Lying mostly doesn’t work. The encounters are on railroads and, eg, recruiting or suborning henchmen will result in their mysterious deaths. Lying would probably work in instances where it would work on a representative human being, unless it impacts encounter difficulty. Disguise results in: halflings are uncommon, so you’re obviously not one of us.
Stealth checks are rolled with disadvantage because halflings can’t see in the dark.
Hide checks are either really high difficulty or at disadvantage because using people as cover is unrealistic.
Lockpicking works, except crowbars are plentiful and work better.
Usable objects are very scarce.
Oh, and jumping and climbing require an athletics check, with a net modifier of -1.
Sneak attack mostly works, albeit, realistically, most mobs are smart enough to target the halfling in leather.
Available subtypes are: thief.

I mean, for your character, this game doesn't sound terribly good...play the evasion game, use cunning action to keep yourself darting in and out of the fray or protect yourself when that's not an option, and don't just hide in the shadows. Remember, you're small, so nooks and crannies are just as valid as pitch blackness; think Outlast concealment. Heck, sniping isn't a bad idea - shoot, move to another position, bonus action hide. Wouldn't be hard, honestly, especially if you can hide in places that aren't dark.

As for "don't play," you're probably going to need to explain how this GM is good while still imposing all these difficulties on you. Are the other players going through similar rigamarole? If not, why? How bloody good is this person at narrative that you're dealing with these major handicaps, or are you alright with the handicaps because you're interested in a challenge?

[snickersnax]

The GM's really good - just I'm kind of bored because there doesn't seem to be much to do besides sit next to the fighter and stab people.

Don't sit next to the fighter. Cunning action disengage as a bonus action and move away. Ideally 15' away from the bad guy, so you can move 10' in, sneak attack and move 10' back out of the fight. If the baddies want to chase you they can take a OA from the fighter.

[djreynolds]

With 5E skills can be used by anyone.

The fighter can pick locks, because she learned kicking in doors can be difficult, the cleric perceives traps as well as undead.

And expertise isn't difficult to acquire if you have 13 in dex or chr and don't mind multiclassing and the feat for skills is nice also

So what is important is your sneak attack, it is IMO what defines a rogue. No one else gets this. You must land this damage every round.

Cunning action allows you to disengage, hide, and dash.

Don't be tied to weapons and styles, be flexible. In the end you want to land the sneak attack, so snipe with a bow or dual wield or throw daggers.

You need advantage for sneak attack to work or a buddy within 5ft, so coming out from the shadows may grant you advantage for a melee assault or ranged attack. Shoving an enemy prone also works. Spells work, etc.

Uncanny dodge is there to allow you to stay in melee if needed, but for the average rogue you AC might get to 17-18 and your HP is lower, you are not proficient in con saves, etc... you are vulnerable.

Move in and out of melee, saving that bonus action to hide or disengage or flee. Have finesse melee weapons, something ranged, daggers and darts so you can strike from anywhere on the battlefield

I play a rogue cautiously, it doesn't mean you can't help the fighter or save the wizard

IMO max out dexterity, determine how many levels the campaign will go and grab resilient con or wisdom (if the campaign is going past 15th level).

Crossbow expert is nice, you can dual wield scimitars and short swords. A level of fighter can bring additional goodies.

[Rynjin]

I, too, would like clarification on what makes a GM that hardcore railroads his players, shuts down any attempts to be creative, and arbitrarily nerfs things for no particular reason "good".

Seriously, you have a GM that has reduced the game, essentially, to nothing but its LEAST FUN part. 5e combat is the most boring combat of any RPG system I've yet played; particularly as a Rogue even without the random nerfs. That's not a "good GM" by any metric.

[JellyPooga]

I wondering if anyone has any advice on playing a low-level halfling rogue.
So, I’m playing in a semi-realistic campaign. Here are the constraints:
Lying mostly doesn’t work. The encounters are on railroads and, eg, recruiting or suborning henchmen will result in their mysterious deaths. Lying would probably work in instances where it would work on a representative human being, unless it impacts encounter difficulty. Disguise results in: halflings are uncommon, so you’re obviously not one of us.
Stealth checks are rolled with disadvantage because halflings can’t see in the dark.
Hide checks are either really high difficulty or at disadvantage because using people as cover is unrealistic.
Lockpicking works, except crowbars are plentiful and work better.
Usable objects are very scarce.
Oh, and jumping and climbing require an athletics check, with a net modifier of -1.
Sneak attack mostly works, albeit, realistically, most mobs are smart enough to target the halfling in leather.
Available subtypes are: thief.

The GM's really good - just I'm kind of bored because there doesn't seem to be much to do besides sit next to the fighter and stab people.

I've highlighted the big red flags here. To summariase;
- GM thinks his house-rules are "more realistic" (pro tip; they never are)
- GM doesn't want players doing anything outside of what he has written down in his notes
- GM doesn't understand the rules

Unless you can change one or more of these things, I think you're probably stuck with being stuck beside that Fighter/being a pin-cushion. As others have said, that's not a "good GM", no matter how good a narrator he is or how fancy his maps are.

That said, some more information would be helpful to give more constructive advice. Namely;
- What stats/skill proficiencies/Expertise does your Halfling have? Are they set in stone, or do you have some wiggle room to rearrange them at all?
- What Class/Race/Style is the rest of your party playing?

Generally speaking, playing a Rogue in any game is remarkably tricky to do well, so here's some tips;

- You are more maneuverable than most other Classes; Cunning Action is used for more than just hiding. Use Dash and Disengage to avoid those mobs that are "smartly" (:smallsigh:) targeting the small, unassuming guy with a tiny sword (i.e. you) instead of more obvious threats. Don't forget to add your (presumably) insane Dex mod to the distance you jump for Second Story Work. If your GM doesn't let you do this, then ask what that feature does do for you; if he asks for Athletics checks for all jumps, then your Thief feature should be doing something to help mitigate that -1 modifier somehow.

- Fast Hands is your friend for making combat fun. Even flasks of oil can be used for battlefield control by making difficult terrain, not to mention other usable items like rope, acid, holy water, ball-bearings (they're in your starting gear!), hunting traps and healers kits. Then there's terrain; flip furniture for cover, topple bookcases for difficult terrain, extinguish fires for concealment, pull tapestries down on foes to blind/entangle them, slam/open/lock/unlock doors...these are all only a bonus action for you (once you hit level 3).

- You're as good (if not better) in ranged combat as you are in melee. Sneak Attack applies to ranged weapons just as well as melee, so if you're feeling fragile, stay at range. Remember that all you need is an ally standing next to a foe to qualify for Sneak Attack, regardless of the nature of the attack you're making (i.e. ranged or melee). Your weapon damage die is insignificant compared to the amount of Sneak Attack dice you're rolling so don't sweat that you're only using darts, daggers or a shortbow at range; the difference between a longbow and a thrown dart is only an average of 2 less damage, but when you're adding an average of 7 for 2d6 Sneak Attack, you'll barely notice it.

- Opportunity Attacks, or more accurately; off-turn Sneak Attacks, are what make you awesome in melee, if that's your game. A Fighter who gets an OA with a greatsword deals 2d6 damage. Even at level 1 you deal 1d8 (rapier) plus 1d6 (Sneak Attack) and that only accelerates as you rise in level. Getting Sentinel at level 4 is a very solid option to open up more opportunities to get those OA's. On a similar note, encourage the party mage to Haste you instead of the Fighter, so you can attack on your turn with the additional attack it offers and then Ready an action to attack on a foes turn to get that extra Sneak Attack.

[DarkKnightJin]

Tip for the DM: if you run a game that's disallowing a character pretty much their entire thing, and shoehorn them into being a ****ty Fighter, and the Rogue's player is bored?

You're NOT being a 'good DM'. You're being an antagonist. It's players *and* DM working to tell a story. If he doesn't want rogues mucking his story time up, he should've said that Rogues aren't allowed at session 0.

[argyle1425]

Personally, I give DMs a lot of leeway - as they are volunteering to entertain me - and I keep odd hours too. :) It isn't so much that he railroads - just that he has trouble playing a bunch of NPCs for extended periods...I kind of sympathize with that. It just interacts badly with deception.

Other players don't have this issue - their abilities are clearly magical, not skill-related, and not item-dependent. I'm having a lot of fun in another campaign with a magic-based character. I think it is because rogues fit into an uncanny valley where they don't have magic, but have abilities with limited plausibility otherwise. Web searches reveal that this is a relatively common problem with DMs. It isn't uncommon, for instance, for DMs to be annoyed by lightfoot halflings constantly hiding. Basically, he turns off his suspension of disbelief for skills - which isn't great for skill monkeys. And, we're in a low tech setting, which isn't great for cunning action. Personally, I blame RAW for the darkvision thing and also the climbing/jumping thing. That said, while I find it perfectly understandable and realistic, it just isn't fun. I'm playing a rogue who's bad at skulking, lying, has a limited supply of dirty tricks, and is decent at stabbing. Oh, and can't climb.

I'd hoped to switch to arcane trickster - because the spellcasting features allow stuff that fits into my conception of playing a rogue without irritating the DM. I thought about assassin, which probably fits better with character concept - but I'm pretty sure I'd be able to disguise myself as either another halfling or a gnome, maybe a human child. And, assassinate is powerful, but boring.

I'll try having fun with fast hands - I think there'll be some fun situational things. I can see that the sentinel feat is powerful, but, meh, not really trying for more damage.

I can't help thinking that ranged combat or disengaging from melee to help the monsters focus fire and bring down our fighter, again, (I don't think we've finished many encounters without her passing out...) is maybe not ideally useful.

Thing is - I'm not so much interested in increased power level - bear in mind that even a very basic melee rogue outdamages most standard characters. It's just that there doesn't seem to be a lot to do.

Based on the feedback here, I think I'll opt for brave melee rogue - possibly in combination with optimistic infiltration rogue. That's where I sneak into caves full of monsters with a lighted lantern, get far enough to fail my stealth check with disadvantage, and fight to the death. I'd use caltrops, but I think my focus is going to be on dying a memorable death.

[Erys]

Stealth checks are rolled with disadvantage because halflings can’t see in the dark.
Hide checks are either really high difficulty or at disadvantage because using people as cover is unrealistic.

These are deal breakers for me.

Neutering the entire concept for no reason is not cool in my book.

If you want to play a rogue- make sure you play a race with darkvision. This will give you new, useful racials and allow you to use a principle class skill.

[Unoriginal]

I wondering if anyone has any advice on playing a low-level halfling rogue.
So, I’m playing in a semi-realistic campaign. Here are the constraints:
Lying mostly doesn’t work. The encounters are on railroads and, eg, recruiting or suborning henchmen will result in their mysterious deaths. Lying would probably work in instances where it would work on a representative human being, unless it impacts encounter difficulty. Disguise results in: halflings are uncommon, so you’re obviously not one of us.
Stealth checks are rolled with disadvantage because halflings can’t see in the dark.
Hide checks are either really high difficulty or at disadvantage because using people as cover is unrealistic.
Lockpicking works, except crowbars are plentiful and work better.
Usable objects are very scarce.
Oh, and jumping and climbing require an athletics check, with a net modifier of -1.
Sneak attack mostly works, albeit, realistically, most mobs are smart enough to target the halfling in leather.
Available subtypes are: thief.

By all the gods and their angels, that's horrible.



The GM's really good

-Encounters are railroaded

-Lying doesn't work most of the time

-Can't get allies

-Jumping and climbing have BS penalties

-Lockpicking is made useless

-Stealth and hiding have ridiculous restrictions and huge penalties for no reason

-Pretends to be "realistic"

What, exactly, about this DM is good? I've rarely heard about a DM that bad, even in "Horrible DMs" threads.

[Foxolicious]

Try to get your DM to reconsider his views on the rogue if he's going ultra realistic I understand no arcane trickster but limiting you down to just a thief is a lot of bs. Try talking him into allowing other subclasses as in assassin, swashbuckler, scout or mastermind they're still realistic and will give you more options when creating your rogue

[Unoriginal]

-Rogues need to be """""""realistic""""""""

-Wizards and Sorcerers? Sure, they can use magic just fine

[JellyPooga]

I think it is because rogues fit into an uncanny valley where they don't have magic, but have abilities with limited plausibility otherwise.

Such as? If you're coming at this with a skewed perspective yourself, then I doubt you're going to get much enjoyment out of playing a Rogue. As I mentioned, Rogues are not as easy to play well as you might imagine; they're one of the hardest Classes to play IMO. Their abilities are largely grounded in reality, more so than most other Classes, so a GM that's coming down hard on them because he perceives them as overpowered or expects abusive behaviour (like the constantly hiding halfling) only makes things harder.


And, we're in a low tech setting, which isn't great for cunning action.

How low-tech are we talking? You mention caltrops and lanterns, so presumably you have access to a certain level of tech, but are we talking Iron Age? Bronze Age? Prehistory? Many items, even some unexpected ones, should still be available to you unless you're playing a bunch of club-wielding neanderthals. Take Alchemists Fire, for example; in a world in which magic doesn't exist, the Ancient Greeks had this stuff, as well as access to caustic substances (e.g. lime) and that's Bronze Age. Even if your GM clamps down on that sort of thing, you can still use Fast Hands on more mundane and readily available substances and items. A simple bag of flour, shaken vigourously, might be good for creating concealment, a rope can be unfurled for a square of difficult terrain, a torch can be extinguished to level the playing field against foes that are also relying on light but have some advantage against you. A little creativity goes a long way.

That said, from the sound of things, it just sounds like your GM wants a bunch of murderhobo Fighters who murder-kill their way through every encounter with little thought about tactics, strategy or alternative encounter resolution (e.g. talking your way out of it). Rogues aren't that fun for that kind of game, especially if you've built him for social/exploration rather than combat. Try reminding your GM that it isn't a computer game, but if that fails, your plan of getting yourself killed and rolling something more meat-headed is probably your best bet.

[argyle1425]

Well, stealth, for example, there's this natural expectation that it is hard to hide in an empty room. Or by cowering behind a fairly thin elf.

I don't think he's worried about abusive behavior or overpoweredness. It's more that skills tend be be evaluated in a reality-based way with fairly strict adherence to the 5e handbook. Eg, the darkvision/stealth thing appears to be based on a reading of the rules. Then, since most humanoids have darkvision, it follows that nearly everything is poorly illuminated. Similarly, athletics really is the proficiency used for jumping and climbing in 5e. I think it is unfortunate that a typical dex-based rogue ends up sucking at things that look like expected class features. Heck, even at things like second story work that are literal class features.

Well...the local blacksmith is good for caltrops, but ball bearings are beyond him - which makes sense from a machinist's point of view. Flasks of oil would be available in a less rural location. Acid, et cetera, in a significantly less rural location.

Nah, he'd like a bunch of creative role-play. (With the exception that he's uncomfortable adding NPCs to the party for long instances. Not a power thing, just a personal limitation.) I think he just hasn't thought through the interaction of realism and story. So, he expects creative role-play that would deceive an actual adult of normal intelligence (or a bit less for goblins.) Unfortunately, the consequence of realistic NPCs is that scouting is worse than useless if you're literally walking blind - which is the consequence of the darkvision rules. And, the consequence of having NPCs act like sensible individuals of human intelligence is that in-game deception plays a relatively small role. This, rapidly, results in murderhobodom. And the consequence of limiting physical skills to 'normal human levels' is that skill monkeys get nerfed. And the consequence of being in a rural area is that object interaction gets nerfed. There's a reason that most movie/book plots strain or break plausibility on occasion - they're more fun that way.

Out of all of it, the thing that probably annoys me the most is the inability to scout effectively. Deception, eh, whatever. It can be hard to run a campaign where players become sufficiently creative. Objects, meh, okay. Hiding behind people, eh, it annoys me a bit - I'd generally prefer to hide behind a box or somesuch. But, even though it seems to be part of RAW, being a rogue without the ability to sneak up on people just seems wrong.

[grumbaki]

Well, stealth, for example, there's this natural expectation that it is hard to hide in an empty room. Or by cowering behind a fairly thin elf.

That's what a stealth test is for. Example: "I hide behind this table. Then when the enemy is focused on the spellcaster casting his spell, or the barbarian raging, I crouch down and sprint behind that pillar. Then I stab him in the back."

GM: "Roll stealth."




I don't think he's worried about abusive behavior or overpoweredness. It's more that skills tend be be evaluated in a reality-based way with fairly strict adherence to the 5e handbook. Eg, the darkvision/stealth thing appears to be based on a reading of the rules. Then, since most humanoids have darkvision, it follows that nearly everything is poorly illuminated. Similarly, athletics really is the proficiency used for jumping and climbing in 5e. I think it is unfortunate that a typical dex-based rogue ends up sucking at things that look like expected class features. Heck, even at things like second story work that are literal class features.


Most humanoids have darkvision? If most humanoids are humans, then no, most humanoids don't have darkvision. If the city is made up mostly out of elves and dwarves, then maybe there is more of an argument for this.


---


If this is the only game in town, the GM is your friend, and you are having fun...then stop playing a "realistic" class. Instead, use magic. Because magic is never limited by realism.


Monk 12, way of the shadow:

At lvl 3-Use your ki to give yourself darkvision (lasts for 8 hours), silence and pass without trace. Also get the minor illusion cantrip.
At lvl 6-You get shadowstep. When in dim light or darkness...which is apparently everywhere, you can teleport up to 60ft and attack with advantage.
At lvl 11-You can use your action to become invisible when in dim light or darkness, and you remain invisible until you attack someone or step into the light.

Lvls 13-20: Rogue
Then go back to being a rogue. You'll have 3 ASIs from being a monk. This will take your Dex from 16 to 20, and you'll have a feat at this point. You can pick up Magical Initiate for some more cantrips and a lvl1 spell, to do things that he is nerfing skills from doing. Such as disguising yourself as a human child. ;)

So what you end up doing is giving yourself darkvision. Walk into the dim light that is everywhere. See in it perfectly fine. Teleport behind the squishy enemy. Hit them hard (eventually with sneak attack damage). Then if the enemy decides to dog pile the halfling, step back into the shadows and teleport away. Go invisible instead of hiding.

Tell your DM that to be realistic, it should be hard to hear a halfling due to how little you weigh and because of how high your stealth skill is.

Your DM is nerfing your class to hell and is taking away your class abilities. So use magic like everyone else.

-----

If you can't do this, then just be an archer. Dex20. Have a bow and sharpshooter. Shoot into melee for your sneak attack damage with all other modifiers. Try to use stealth to be a sniper. Don't try to be a scout. Don't try to bluff. Let your party come into the room first, find a place to hide, and shoot away.

[GlenSmash!]

Don't sit next to the fighter. Cunning action disengage as a bonus action and move away. Ideally 15' away from the bad guy, so you can move 10' in, sneak attack and move 10' back out of the fight. If the baddies want to chase you they can take a OA from the fighter.

Solid advice. Also consider using a ranged weapon.

As opposed to the other stuff. I also find the additional rules constraints to be unnecessary. The game works fine as written. What value could you table be getting for the addition hurdles that have been created? Not worth it IMHO.

[argyle1425]

Well, in the city, most humanoids wouldn't have darkvision. But, we spend a lot of time with the usual mook humanoids, all of whom have darkvision. By the way, much of this is based on our interpretation of the rules for darkness and climbing, et cetera. If someone was to say, 'clearly, in the DMG, on page 1xx, it states that humanoids with darkvision still light their caves', that'd help enormously. Or, yes, you can use acrobatics checks for jumping and climbing. Because, see, we think we're following the rules as written.

And yep - friend, generally fun, and only game in town. In retrospect, I wouldn't play a halfling rogue. Honestly, in retrospect, I suspect that it's literally the last class/race combination I'd pick. I just hate the idea of elvish rogues. Or really, anything except halfling and human rogues. Maybe half-orc.

I agree on the magic. I'll try selling him on arcane rogue - not a power thing, just familiar and disguise self give access to options I consider class features in a 'realistic' way. Sure, there isn't the same difficulty level or coolness factor as genuinely figuring out plausible physical tricks. So, that's a bit of a minus.

I mean, it's basically a half orc assassin, without the assassination feature and limited disguise. But, eh, I'm not wild about too much alphastrike damage. (2d8 + 4d6 +4 at 3rd level) It is cool, but I think it can make campaigns boring when the main boss gets hit by a couple of lucky crits and dies instantly. It makes it hard to provide challenging encounters.

It that doesn't work, I think I'll opt for aggressive melee rogue who scouts blindfolded*, followed by, dunno, some sort of caster.

*I am not sure that disengage does much for party survivability, in general. Soaking up half the damage would at least keep our fighter up. She keeps almost dying. It isn't that my rogue is low dps or easy to kill, just kind of boring.

[Strill]

Well, stealth, for example, there's this natural expectation that it is hard to hide in an empty room. Or by cowering behind a fairly thin elf.

I don't think he's worried about abusive behavior or overpoweredness. It's more that skills tend be be evaluated in a reality-based way with fairly strict adherence to the 5e handbook. Eg, the darkvision/stealth thing appears to be based on a reading of the rules. Then, since most humanoids have darkvision, it follows that nearly everything is poorly illuminated. Similarly, athletics really is the proficiency used for jumping and climbing in 5e. I think it is unfortunate that a typical dex-based rogue ends up sucking at things that look like expected class features. Heck, even at things like second story work that are literal class features.None of what you've described has any adherence to the rulebook. Nothing in the book says characters without Darkvision are worse at Stealth. Nothing about Athletics says that jumping and climbing apply a -1 penalty.


And, the consequence of having NPCs act like sensible individuals of human intelligence is that in-game deception plays a relatively small role.No, that is not a natural consequence at all. You are not your character. Your inability to think up amazing convincing lies, does not mean your character can't. If you think this is the DM playing the rules by the book, you are completely wrong.


And the consequence of limiting physical skills to 'normal human levels' is that skill monkeys get nerfed.Your character is not a normal human. A normal human, if you look in the monster manual, has 10s in every attribute, and no skill proficiencies. Your character is quite exceptional.


Out of all of it, the thing that probably annoys me the most is the inability to scout effectively. Deception, eh, whatever. It can be hard to run a campaign where players become sufficiently creative. Objects, meh, okay. Hiding behind people, eh, it annoys me a bit - I'd generally prefer to hide behind a box or somesuch. But, even though it seems to be part of RAW, being a rogue without the ability to sneak up on people just seems wrong.It's not a part of RAW in the slightest. Heck, your ability to hide behind other players is RAW and your DM just tossed that out the window.


Well, in the city, most humanoids wouldn't have darkvision. But, we spend a lot of time with the usual mook humanoids, all of whom have darkvision. By the way, much of this is based on our interpretation of the rules for darkness and climbing, et cetera. If someone was to say, 'clearly, in the DMG, on page 1xx, it states that humanoids with darkvision still light their caves', that'd help enormously. Or, yes, you can use acrobatics checks for jumping and climbing. Because, see, we think we're following the rules as written.Creatures with darkvision do light their caves. Darkvision in total darkness still imposes disadvantage on perception checks. That still has nothing to do with your stealth checks.

[Strangways]

I wondering if anyone has any advice on playing a low-level halfling rogue.
So, I’m playing in a semi-realistic campaign. Here are the constraints:
Lying mostly doesn’t work. The encounters are on railroads and, eg, recruiting or suborning henchmen will result in their mysterious deaths. Lying would probably work in instances where it would work on a representative human being, unless it impacts encounter difficulty. Disguise results in: halflings are uncommon, so you’re obviously not one of us.
Stealth checks are rolled with disadvantage because halflings can’t see in the dark.
Hide checks are either really high difficulty or at disadvantage because using people as cover is unrealistic.
Lockpicking works, except crowbars are plentiful and work better.
Usable objects are very scarce.
Oh, and jumping and climbing require an athletics check, with a net modifier of -1.
Sneak attack mostly works, albeit, realistically, most mobs are smart enough to target the halfling in leather.
Available subtypes are: thief.

The GM's really good - just I'm kind of bored because there doesn't seem to be much to do besides sit next to the fighter and stab people.

Among other things, having to make stealth checks at disadvantage or at a really high DC "because using other people as cover is unrealistic" is complete BS. Your DM has just arbitrarily eliminated a major racial ability of the Lightfoot Halfling purely because he doesn't like it.

I won't point out the many other issues I have with your DM's position on what is "realistic," all I can suggest is that, if you want to stay in his game, get a complete list of the way in which he's ignoring the rules in the name of his skewed idea of realism, then select a different race and class that hasn't been arbitrarily nerfed by his divergences from the rules.

[argyle1425]

Well, assume that str was a dump stat for this rogue. So, athletics checks are at a non-proficient -1. I'd assumed that acrobatics had something to do with jumping around or climbing. Apparently not.

It isn't that darkness affects stealth - its that our reading of the rules is that, if you don't have darkvision, stealthing in dark regions involves either poor perception or walking around with a light source - neither of which actually works in practice. I mean, fun, if dramatic tension involves rescuing the rogue. But - a poor risk-benefit ratio - especially, when - compared to the rest of the party - combining stealth and perception and picking between light and no light - I'd be either better at stealth, but blind - or worse at stealth and perception. It might be a flaw in my gameplay, but, given those constraints, my response was to let the sorceror scout.

On the bright side, following the discovery that low-str halflings are too short and weak to flip tables, a few bugbear-related crits later, and an admission that the 1d6 extra from the off-hand wasn't worth it (oopsie) - and I've rolled a shadow monk. :)

[Chugger]

This DM seems so locked-in and regimented - I'd leave this table. If he was the only DM in town I'd play WoW.

Look, you _can_ stealth with a light source. Go arcane trickster and have the mage hand carry the light source away from you. It distracts, you hide.

Put your light source down on the floor or on a table - or toss your torch into the middle of the room - and then find a place to hide. It won't always be perfect. But if you hide your adv ranged attack cancels out a disad you might get because a target's in the dim light past your light source's main radius.

If you want realism, why not join the Army? Oh gosh, did I really just say that? Ahem, sorry, ahem ahem....

[Breashios]

Well, assume that str was a dump stat for this rogue. So, athletics checks are at a non-proficient -1. I'd assumed that acrobatics had something to do with jumping around or climbing. Apparently not.

RAW the PHB (AFB now) indicates a DM can apply a different attribute to a skill check. I do this all the time with Athletics for our Rogue when he climbs. He uses DEX instead of STR. He took Acrobatics like you, so only gets the stat bonus, but now at +5 he is decent. Though we haven't used Acrobatics for climbing, it wouldn't be a stretch in the spirit of skill use to allow it.