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Tekrow
2017-09-14, 10:17 PM
What would be the best option for a ranged ranger to multiclass in? UA allowed so Revised Ranger and using either the Revised Hunter Conclave or the Revised Stalker Conclave.

Foxhound438
2017-09-14, 10:48 PM
After level 5 or 6 it wouldn't be terrible to pick up some levels in any of the following:

Rogue adds free d6's to your damage, assuming you're shooting at things next to your melee allies. Which you should do anyways to eliminate threats faster. In this case level split could be anything, just get ranger 5 for extra attack. The rest in rogue would be pretty fine, but picking up ranger 7 depending on your subclass might be worth, and the same is true for 11.

Fighter at level 3 gets superiority dice, which adds to your overall effectveness in a lot of ways. Precision attack for sharpshooter attacks that would miss, pushing attacks for battlefield control, menacing attack scares things so they can't even get in range. In this case I'd go for ranger X/ fighter 3, since extra attack is worst in multiples. Maybe fighter 4 for the extra ASI/feat.

cleric could get you some more casting power a lot faster. The majority of level 1 domain features actually scale really well. any amount of cleric levels could be fine. 1 gets you a cool feature, 2-3 gets you channel options and spiritual weapon/blindness, 5 gets you spiritual guardians to encourage things to move away from you, 7 gets banishment, and 9+ starts getting into some great AOE damage and healing options. As a matter of fact, if you choose a domain that gets divine strike, there's an extra d8 of damage at level 8 and then again at 14.

Which of these is best is kind of up to you. Rogue probably is the best for single target damage, cleric is really cool but is honestly not as much an archer as a support/dps, and fighter gives some useful combat tricks.

Tekrow
2017-09-14, 11:15 PM
After level 5 or 6 it wouldn't be terrible to pick up some levels in any of the following:

Rogue adds free d6's to your damage, assuming you're shooting at things next to your melee allies. Which you should do anyways to eliminate threats faster. In this case level split could be anything, just get ranger 5 for extra attack. The rest in rogue would be pretty fine, but picking up ranger 7 depending on your subclass might be worth, and the same is true for 11.

Fighter at level 3 gets superiority dice, which adds to your overall effectveness in a lot of ways. Precision attack for sharpshooter attacks that would miss, pushing attacks for battlefield control, menacing attack scares things so they can't even get in range. In this case I'd go for ranger X/ fighter 3, since extra attack is worst in multiples. Maybe fighter 4 for the extra ASI/feat.

cleric could get you some more casting power a lot faster. The majority of level 1 domain features actually scale really well. any amount of cleric levels could be fine. 1 gets you a cool feature, 2-3 gets you channel options and spiritual weapon/blindness, 5 gets you spiritual guardians to encourage things to move away from you, 7 gets banishment, and 9+ starts getting into some great AOE damage and healing options. As a matter of fact, if you choose a domain that gets divine strike, there's an extra d8 of damage at level 8 and then again at 14.

Which of these is best is kind of up to you. Rogue probably is the best for single target damage, cleric is really cool but is honestly not as much an archer as a support/dps, and fighter gives some useful combat tricks.

Does Divine Strike work with ranged attacks?

Arkhios
2017-09-14, 11:19 PM
Does Divine Strike work with ranged attacks?

Yes. It requires a weapon attack. Not a word about it being melee only.

With decent wisdom (16+) War Domain would be amazing for an Archer with Longbow and Sharpshooter feat.

djreynolds
2017-09-14, 11:38 PM
Yes. It requires a weapon attack. Not a word about it being melee only.

With decent wisdom (16+) War Domain would be amazing for an Archer with Longbow and Sharpshooter feat.

100%

divine favor, 3 bonus action attacks, guided strike

2 levels of cleric, 2 levels of rogue (cunning action, expertise perception and stealth), 2 levels of fighter

these are all front loaded dips and can be picked up in any order

Malifice
2017-09-14, 11:40 PM
Take it t 5th. Then leave and never come back.

Then 3 levels of BM Fighter (action surge, sup dice).

And round out with a ton of levels in Rogue (sneak attack).

If you want more caster levels, take a few levels in Druid.

Mortis_Elrod
2017-09-15, 01:29 AM
Been saying it alot, and i'll continue to say it. Hexblade Archer. You get alot out of it. Namely, hexblade curse fo more damage and 19-20 crit, as well as Eldritch smite and Improved pact weapon (and some paladin spells). If you want o be a ranger i wouldnt suggest any more than 5 levels though, grabbing the 2 mentioned invocations and one more of your choice (sens you get extra attack from ranger).


But besides that arcane archer is pretty good, +1 arrows every shot, another fighting style being close quarters shooter basically negates the need for crossbow expert as well as another +1 to hit.

Kensai Monk is also really good, matches up ability score wise and gives you some melee options. You could go to 14 and it be a strong build for a unarmored fast moving archer, hits hard too.

Malifice
2017-09-15, 01:36 AM
Been saying it alot, and i'll continue to say it. Hexblade Archer. You get alot out of it. Namely, hexblade curse fo more damage and 19-20 crit, as well as Eldritch smite and Improved pact weapon (and some paladin spells). I

You need to find a magical bow and bind to it before you can use eldritch smie with a bow though.

Citan
2017-09-15, 05:54 AM
What would be the best option for a ranged ranger to multiclass in? UA allowed so Revised Ranger and using either the Revised Hunter Conclave or the Revised Stalker Conclave.

There are honestly many great things to multiclass into if UA is allowed.
From the top of my head (and considering that you won't multiclass before being at least Ranger 6)...

1. Hexblade Warlock 1+: you can use it as a (better) replacement for Hunter's Mark, or stack it onto (although both use bonus action so it's effective only on the second turn). You don't care about having a high CHA either. You could also bump it up to three, pick the Tome pact, and pick Mirror Image for extra defense, get 2nd level short rest slots for your Ranger spells, and (DM DEPENDENT) learn many useful rituals. Or go up to 5 to get Elemental Weapon IIRC. You could also grab Darkness + Devil's Sight to hold yourself in a strong defensive position while you unleash arrows.

2. Rogue (any) 2-3+: Cunning Action is great, you get Uncanny Dodge for closing enemies, and you could get Evasion a bit earlier than as a pure Hunter Ranger. Plus archetype bonus (Thief if you want to grab Healer feat or just have fun with various items, otherwise Arcane Trickster is the obvious good thing).

3. Sheperd Druid 2-3+: the level 2 aura is versatile, and all effects are great. "Hawk" will be your go-to one, but if you go companion way, "Bear" could be used to make it great at grappling/shoving. Plus going up to Druid 3 would net you Pass Without Trace, and up to 5 for Conjure Animals, if being a beastmaster is your thing.

4. Cleric 1-2-3+ (Nature, Life, Light, Trickster, Tempest): Cleric's Bless can be a better choice than Hunter's Mark on occasions, like when you want to clear a horde: getting a much better chance at Sharpshooting different creatures will be more efficient in action economy than using bonus action every turn to move Hunter's Mark (I'm supposing here that either you will get Crossbow Expert, or you will regularly use bonus action on something else like Ranger spell, Healing Words, or maybe Rogue's Cunning Action).
- Nature (1/6/8) brings you extra skills and one among Thorns Whip/Mold Earth/Create Bonfire/etc.
- Light (1+) gives you a few defensive reactions against attacks.
- Life (1/2) makes your Goodberries much more useful. CD is mostly useless in pure healing because to low output, but can still be used as an emergency "mass healing words".
- Tempest (2/6) maximizes Lightning Arrow damage. At level 6, provided you get a weapon dealing lightning damage (magic weapon, OR Elemental Weapon through Hexblade Warlock or Lore Bard), you can become a very annoying archer, that prevents anyone ever reaching to him (since every hit deals extra lightning damage, so triggers Tempest Cleric's lvl 6 feature "push 10 feet away").

5. Battlemaster 3: honestly not THAT interesting for you, because it requires three levels and most of everything else Fighter provides is mostly redundant, except Action Surge and another Fighting Style (Defense is the obvious choice). Previous options are overall much better, but if you feel unlucky with your attack rolls at the most critical times, then it can be a worthy investment for Precision Attack. One could argue Bless is better, and I'd tend to agree "in general", but Precision attack has a benefit (in addition to providing a better result in average): you choose when to apply it, and after the roll so it's usually never wasted. With that said, you could empower only 4 attacks per short rest, while a Bless could easily empower 10+ attacks per encounter, for a much smaller investment. :)

6. Monk 1-2. Rather unintuitive this one, and not great as a dip. If you have great WIS, one level for AC boost and emergency martial arts (if you are using a longbow) can be worth. Maybe a 2nd for extra mobility at a cost. Honestly though, there are really better options, dip into this only if you like the related fluff.

Those are the most intuitive ones. ;)
I hope this gave you some ideas, don't hesitate to ask if you want more details or feedbacks on your multiclass concept. ;)

Tekrow
2017-09-15, 07:41 AM
Thanks everyone for the replies and help.

There are honestly many great things to multiclass into if UA is allowed.
From the top of my head (and considering that you won't multiclass before being at least Ranger 6)...

1. Hexblade Warlock 1+: you can use it as a (better) replacement for Hunter's Mark, or stack it onto (although both use bonus action so it's effective only on the second turn). You don't care about having a high CHA either. You could also bump it up to three, pick the Tome pact, and pick Mirror Image for extra defense, get 2nd level short rest slots for your Ranger spells, and (DM DEPENDENT) learn many useful rituals. Or go up to 5 to get Elemental Weapon IIRC. You could also grab Darkness + Devil's Sight to hold yourself in a strong defensive position while you unleash arrows.

2. Rogue (any) 2-3+: Cunning Action is great, you get Uncanny Dodge for closing enemies, and you could get Evasion a bit earlier than as a pure Hunter Ranger. Plus archetype bonus (Thief if you want to grab Healer feat or just have fun with various items, otherwise Arcane Trickster is the obvious good thing).

3. Sheperd Druid 2-3+: the level 2 aura is versatile, and all effects are great. "Hawk" will be your go-to one, but if you go companion way, "Bear" could be used to make it great at grappling/shoving. Plus going up to Druid 3 would net you Pass Without Trace, and up to 5 for Conjure Animals, if being a beastmaster is your thing.

4. Cleric 1-2-3+ (Nature, Life, Light, Trickster, Tempest): Cleric's Bless can be a better choice than Hunter's Mark on occasions, like when you want to clear a horde: getting a much better chance at Sharpshooting different creatures will be more efficient in action economy than using bonus action every turn to move Hunter's Mark (I'm supposing here that either you will get Crossbow Expert, or you will regularly use bonus action on something else like Ranger spell, Healing Words, or maybe Rogue's Cunning Action).
- Nature (1/6/8) brings you extra skills and one among Thorns Whip/Mold Earth/Create Bonfire/etc.
- Light (1+) gives you a few defensive reactions against attacks.
- Life (1/2) makes your Goodberries much more useful. CD is mostly useless in pure healing because to low output, but can still be used as an emergency "mass healing words".
- Tempest (2/6) maximizes Lightning Arrow damage. At level 6, provided you get a weapon dealing lightning damage (magic weapon, OR Elemental Weapon through Hexblade Warlock or Lore Bard), you can become a very annoying archer, that prevents anyone ever reaching to him (since every hit deals extra lightning damage, so triggers Tempest Cleric's lvl 6 feature "push 10 feet away").

5. Battlemaster 3: honestly not THAT interesting for you, because it requires three levels and most of everything else Fighter provides is mostly redundant, except Action Surge and another Fighting Style (Defense is the obvious choice). Previous options are overall much better, but if you feel unlucky with your attack rolls at the most critical times, then it can be a worthy investment for Precision Attack. One could argue Bless is better, and I'd tend to agree "in general", but Precision attack has a benefit (in addition to providing a better result in average): you choose when to apply it, and after the roll so it's usually never wasted. With that said, you could empower only 4 attacks per short rest, while a Bless could easily empower 10+ attacks per encounter, for a much smaller investment. :)

6. Monk 1-2. Rather unintuitive this one, and not great as a dip. If you have great WIS, one level for AC boost and emergency martial arts (if you are using a longbow) can be worth. Maybe a 2nd for extra mobility at a cost. Honestly though, there are really better options, dip into this only if you like the related fluff.

Those are the most intuitive ones. ;)
I hope this gave you some ideas, don't hesitate to ask if you want more details or feedbacks on your multiclass concept. ;)

The ones that I like the most are Warlock, Rogue and Cleric. A few questions. From the UAs, the only patron that allows me to create a long bow with Pact of the Weapon it's the Archfey. Is it worth it still go Hexblade and just hope for an early magical bow? And would a Ranger/Warlock or Ranger/Claric work better than a Rogue/Warlock or Rogue/Cleric?

tieren
2017-09-15, 08:04 AM
I'm really a fan of the rogue MC for ranger. Particularly for the original ranger as a lot of low level rogue options are high level ranger options (uncanny dodge, evasion, etc...) the expertise and cunning actions help too.

For the sneak attack condition you need an ally within 5 feet of the target. You can of course use your melee party members for that, but I also had a really fun build that took some druid levels to get more summons and used things like wolves or boars, not so much to attack with but just to be where I needed them. Wildshape to move or sneak myself into great sniper positions was a real bonus. (ranger 5/rogue 7/druid 8).

Be careful with the MC that you don't get extra attack from multiple places because they won't stack and every time you get it again its basically a dead level (level 5 in BM fighter for example).

jaappleton
2017-09-15, 08:16 AM
I made a Tabaxi Rev Ranger, Hunter, that MCed into Forge Cleric.

+1 to AC or weapon attacks? Yes, please.
Shield spell? Yes!
And all the other beautiful Cleric spells, like Healing Word, the Guidance Cantrip, Shield of Faith, and Bless? Yes. Yes to all of that!

Specter
2017-09-15, 08:32 AM
Can't go wrong with Rogue, Fighter, Cleric or Druid. The main question is: Do you want to cast more and more efficiently or do you just want to be better in general combat?

Also if going Fighter/Rogue Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster are all fine options, if only because you can get Shield from them.

Dimers
2017-09-15, 09:38 AM
Nomad Mystic. Mobility, switchable skill/tool/language proficiencies, a wide variety of offensive and defensive powers, good sensory options, and you can make all your ranged attacks ignore disadvantage all day long.

Citan
2017-09-15, 11:10 AM
Thanks everyone for the replies and help.


The ones that I like the most are Warlock, Rogue and Cleric. A few questions. 1. From the UAs, the only patron that allows me to create a long bow with Pact of the Weapon it's the Archfey. Is it worth it still go Hexblade and just hope for an early magical bow? 2. And would a Ranger/Warlock or Ranger/Claric work better than a Rogue/Warlock or Rogue/Cleric?
Hey ;)

1. I'm sorry I'm not sure I understand the question about magical weapon and Archfey because from my understanding the only way to get a Longbow as pact weapon is independant from the Patron. Besides, I don't understand why you would take the Blade Pact since a) you can get Extra Attack with Ranger levels.
b) Hexblade feature whatever weapon you use (except for the "use CHA instead of STR/DEX" part, but you don't care about that).
c) If you go Hexblade high enough you get Magic Weapon and Elemental Weapon.

Maybe you made a confusion between the Patron (Hexblade/Archfey/Fiend etc) and the Pact (Blade/Tome/Chain)? Or were you referring to the UA Moonbow Invocation which allows you to "smite"?
Because in the latter case, I think it's the lesser choice compared to Hexblade+buff spell, simply because...
- You won't have that many spell slots to use on "smiting", especially if you want to buff yourself.
- Sharpshooter with Archery and either Bless or Elemental Weapon should be enough to deal pretty good consistent damage, so better overall damage.

2. I don't know if it would "work better", it depends on many things including the kind of tactics you prefer and the archetypes you'd choose.
With that said, the most interesting things to take from those classes are usually low level, so why choose? :)
IMO the strictly required things for someone who boast being an archer is great accuracy (so Sharpshooter + Archery + potential buff), at the very least 2 attacks (Extra Attack), but the more the better, ability to get advantage (so Hide, restraining spell, Blindness etc) and either a great mobility or great defense to keep threats far away.

Which are all things that can be achieved at a character level 8-9 (Ranger 5, Cleric 1, Rogue 2, possibly Hexblade Warlock 1).
Beyond that, it's more up to you to decide the kind of archer you want to be.

Nova striker? Then using anything in your power to Hide as a bonus action every turn and unleash a powerful single attack with "smite" on top of it would work well: meaning high-level Sneak Attack (so many Rogue levels), and taking the Moonbow Archfey Blade Warlock up to 9 or 11 to get very high level single-target damage.
In that case, you could even ditch Ranger altogether beyond the first level (Advantage on Initiative, you cannot ditch that).
For example, AT 11 / Warlock 9 would work wonders: Reliable Talent and Expertise ensures you always Hide successfully (provided you can Hide in the first place of course), AT slots fuel tricks to enable Hiding (Fog Cloud, Minor Illusion), Warlock slots fuel high-level smite.

Hoard Killer?
Hunter Ranger 5+: Pass Without Trace, Extra Attack, Horde Breaker.
Hexblade Warlock 5+: Hexblade, Elemental Weapon
Rogue 2+: Expertise, Cunning Action, Sneak Attack
Tempest Cleric 2+: Channel Divinity.
This character can consistently boast a decent damage and versatility. For the last tier, you can either boost Ranger up to 9 for Lightning Arrow (works with CD) for big weaponized AOE, or boost Tempest up to 6 for more control (Elemental Weapon: lightning > push foes).

Versatile controller?
Hunter Ranger 5: Ensnaring Strike, Pass Without Trace, Goodberry, etc.
Arcane Trickster 9: Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, Magical Ambush, non-INT cantrips and spells (including Mirror Image).
Life Cleric 1: better Goodberries, Healing Words, Bless, Sanctuary, Guiding Bolt, Command.
Hexblade Warlock 5: Hexblade, Elemental Weapon.
This guys is like a Ranger on steroids: the versatility a Ranger has in essence is boosted in every aspect: attack (EW), healing (Life Goodberries, Healing Words), utility (AT), mobility (AT), control (Magical Ambush + spells such as Ensnaring Strike).

See? You have many ways to go, so basically think about a concept and go with it, or cherry-pick features and design your build plan. ;)

Mortis_Elrod
2017-09-15, 11:54 AM
You need to find a magical bow and bind to it before you can use eldritch smie with a bow though.

Hexblade has magic weapon on the spell list.

Mortis_Elrod
2017-09-15, 11:55 AM
Thanks everyone for the replies and help.


The ones that I like the most are Warlock, Rogue and Cleric. A few questions. From the UAs, the only patron that allows me to create a long bow with Pact of the Weapon it's the Archfey. Is it worth it still go Hexblade and just hope for an early magical bow? And would a Ranger/Warlock or Ranger/Claric work better than a Rogue/Warlock or Rogue/Cleric?

Revised class options have updated invocations, hexblade givs magic weapon on spell list. Magic weapon at the same time as ritual = magic bow.

Arkhios
2017-09-15, 11:56 AM
Hexblade has magic weapon on the spell list.

The weapon must be magical item. A mere spell that lasts for a short time isn't enough to bypass that requirement.

Mortis_Elrod
2017-09-15, 12:00 PM
The weapon must be magical item. A mere spell that lasts for a short time isn't enough to bypass that requirement.

makes the weapon magical does it not? and lasts for an hour, the same time you need for the ritual. Magic weapon is a magic weapon.

Arkhios
2017-09-15, 12:44 PM
makes the weapon magical does it not? and lasts for an hour, the same time you need for the ritual. Magic weapon is a magic weapon.

I still disagree that the spell would be enough to bind the weapon to Pact of the Blade. Why? Because when the spell's effect ends, the weapon ceases to be magical = the weapon can't be bound because it's not magical anymore.

Citan
2017-09-15, 01:58 PM
I still disagree that the spell would be enough to bind the weapon to Pact of the Blade. Why? Because when the spell's effect ends, the weapon ceases to be magical = the weapon can't be bound because it's not magical anymore.
Agreed. What Mortis_Elrod suggests is a very liberal and very cheesy comprehension of a rule that didn't specify something like "weapon that is magical in essence" because it was just so obvious that weapons temporarily granted the "magic property" wouldn't apply.

Tekrow
2017-09-15, 03:37 PM
Agreed. What Mortis_Elrod suggests is a very liberal and very cheesy comprehension of a rule that didn't specify something like "weapon that is magical in essence" because it was just so obvious that weapons temporarily granted the "magic property" wouldn't apply.

Hey Citan, I tried to PM you, but it said you have exceeded your PM quota, is there any way I could contact you?

Varlon
2017-09-15, 03:42 PM
I really don't think it's so clear. Pact of the Blade says "You can transform one magic weapon into your pact weapon...You can then dismiss the weapon, shunting it into an extradimensional space, and it appears whenever you create your pact weapon thereafter". Magic Weapon explicitly turns a weapon into a magic weapon*, and Pact of the Blade transforms that weapon into your pact weapon, which you can then dismiss and recreate as you wish.

Sage Advice (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-april-2016) explicitly says that you can turn a ranged weapon into a pact weapon, and:

The feature initially allows the conjuring forth of a melee weapon, yet we allow more versatility when it comes to magic weapons. We didn’t want a narrow focus in this feature to make a warlock unhappy when a variety of magic weapons appear in a campaign. Does this versatility extend outside the melee theme of the feature? It sure does, but we’re willing to occasionally bend a design concept if doing so is likely to increase a player’s happiness.
This combination requires a lot of investment, locking in both of a warlock's major choices. What does it accomplish to say that no, you have to find a permanently magic longbow in the world to make it a pact weapon? Next some will be saying you can't do the Magic Weapon-Pact of the Blade combo because both the spell and the ritual take an hour.

*It doesn't say "add 1 to the weapon's attack and damage rolls, and the weapon counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks", language which is common in other places.

Mortis_Elrod
2017-09-15, 05:03 PM
Agreed. What Mortis_Elrod suggests is a very liberal and very cheesy comprehension of a rule that didn't specify something like "weapon that is magical in essence" because it was just so obvious that weapons temporarily granted the "magic property" wouldn't apply.

magic weapon is magic weapon. The feature doesn't say it has be permanently magical, and nothing interacts that way in the game. What you are saying is that there's some sort of hidden rule here that says when it refers to a magic weapon, it cant be a magic weapon that is only magic from a spell. Nothing in the game interacts like that.

What i am also saying is that the spell wears off, leaving you with a normal pact weapon, but of course you switch out an invocation for Improved pact weapon to have a +1 bow that is also you arcane focus.


Cheezy? maybe, but its you sacrifice the ability to change melee weapons on the fly for ONLY a bow. Its not cheezy, its a raw fix for something silly like the restriction to melee weapons only.

Mortis_Elrod
2017-09-15, 05:04 PM
I still disagree that the spell would be enough to bind the weapon to Pact of the Blade. Why? Because when the spell's effect ends, the weapon ceases to be magical = the weapon can't be bound because it's not magical anymore.

it is because its magical via pact of the blade now. Even more so with improved pact weapon. these things happen at the same time.

Citan
2017-09-15, 05:55 PM
Hey Citan, I tried to PM you, but it said you have exceeded your PM quota, is there any way I could contact you?
Hey, yeah, I realized today when I finally got to check my email...
Please try again tomorrow evening if it can wait, I have to save some of those private messages before deleting them and cannot right now.

Tekrow
2017-09-15, 06:06 PM
Hey, yeah, I realized today when I finally got to check my email...
Please try again tomorrow evening if it can wait, I have to save some of those private messages before deleting them and cannot right now.

Sure, will do.

Tekrow
2017-09-15, 06:18 PM
Hey, yeah, I realized today when I finally got to check my email...
Please try again tomorrow evening if it can wait, I have to save some of those private messages before deleting them and cannot right now.

Might as well ask you through here haha.

Sorry to bother you, but you gave me a few ideas and made me think about a few things on the type of character I want. I want a nova striker, capable of dealing high single target damage, but also has a few out of combat utilities(maybe like a bit of out of combat magic or something). I usually play heavy RP campaigns, so I would like to avoid having too many classes, I think 3 would be the top. Doesn't neccesarily has to be hunter, and while I do really enjoy stealth gameplay, it doesn't necessarily has to be a rogue either. From all the options, which classes could help me make the character I want?
Again, I'm sorry to bother you so much hahaha, and thanks for the help.

Citan
2017-09-16, 10:07 AM
Might as well ask you through here haha.

Sorry to bother you, but you gave me a few ideas and made me think about a few things on the type of character I want. I want a nova striker, capable of dealing high single target damage, but also has a few out of combat utilities(maybe like a bit of out of combat magic or something). I usually play heavy RP campaigns, so I would like to avoid having too many classes, I think 3 would be the top. Doesn't neccesarily has to be hunter, and while I do really enjoy stealth gameplay, it doesn't necessarily has to be a rogue either. From all the options, which classes could help me make the character I want?
Again, I'm sorry to bother you so much hahaha, and thanks for the help.
Hmm. You did well to ask here, after all many people besides me can help you, and my suggestions may be useful to others too. We are still more on less "in" the topic of the thread too.

So, let's go for a not-so-concise analysis.
You have three axes: utility, nova single-target, stealth, with 3 classes max.

UTILITY
How to get the best utility? The main ways from the "best" to "worst" (I consider here that your DM would be a nice guy that provides loot corresponding to your objectives).
- High level Wizard (DM Dependent): learn additional spells, including rituals.
- High level Druid: versatile in core, has rituals.
- 7+ Tome Warlock with Book of Ancients Secrets Invocation (DM dependent): if your DM is nice, you can hoard all ritual spells.
- High level Cleric (DM dependent): less versatile, but has many spells that can shine in adventuring, although it depends on how DM "answers" your divination spells.
- High level Rogue (somewhat DM dependent, also player dependent): you are not very versatile in core, but Expertise and Reliable Talent can certainly open way to much utility, if you take proficiency in some toolsets or be creative with skills such as Animal Handling. Unfortunately I never really tried to use any (besides healers kit with Healer feat), so I cannot provide any good example. I'm sure that people having played high level Rogues (especially Thiefs) could give you lots of great ideas though.
- Ritual Caster feat (DM dependent): lesser investment ("just" one feat), taking Wizard list, allows you to grab the majority of the best rituals.
- Knowledge CD (Cleric 2): short-rest proficiency in any skill/tool you want. For ponctual needs, you won't get any better than that for such a small investment. Beware of potential fluff strings attached.
- Jack of all Trades (Bard 2): small but still useful boost to any check you are not proficient into
- Skilled feat: kinda the worst option, but may be considered depending on your build.

STEALTH
Stealth means being able to get out of someone's senses (view, but also hearing at least, possibly smell) and Hide.
Tools for that:
- Disable view: Fog Cloud, smoke screen (DM dependent), Darkness, Pyrotechnics, Minor Illusion, Mold Earth are among the things I can think of right now among easy to get tools.
- Disable hearing: not many things here: basically Silence ritual, Fly spell (somewhat DM dependent), Deafness, and some magical objects (I think there is a pair of uncommon magical boots that allow you to move silently, but no idea of the name).
- Disable smell: well, apart from my own homebrew ;), I don't know about any way to disable smell by RAW. With that said, any sensible DM would probably agree that smart use of "wind spells" such as Gust or Gust of Wind, paired or not with vials of smelling potion, would work good enough.
- Enhance skill check: Expertise (Rogue 1 / Bard 3), Enhance Ability (Bard 3 / Sorcerer 3), Pass Without Trace (Druid 3/Shadow Monk 3 / Trickster Cleric 3), Guidance (Cleric 1 / Druid 1 / Magic Initiate) are the only ways I can think of.

SINGLE TARGET NOVA
Many ways to go here.
Magic one is the usual 3*Agonizing Blast (somewhat sustainable) thanks to Action Surge and Quickened.
An extremely powerful one (but requires a full turn or more to set up) would be stacking high level Bestow Curse + Hex + Hexblade as a Fighter 2 / Phoenix Sorcerer X / Warlock X, then unleashing Scorching Ray as high level as possible. That's kinda stupidly OP, but also makes you drop back to a whiny cantrip user for the remaining of the day in something like 2-3 turns.

Otherwise, there is always the Rogue's Sneak Attack, or Paladin's "ranged compatible" smite spells, or Ranger spells, or Warlock's Archfey Moonbow "smiting", or AT/EK's "disadvantage on save" paired with control spells (Entangle, Ensnaring Strike, Hold Person, Branding Smite, Banishing Smite).
Or just a high number of weapon attacks empowered with Sharpshooter and magic buff (so basically Fighter).

CONSIDERING ALL THAT...
Utility: If your DM tends to be nice and generous with loot, I'd go with Tome Warlock as the pillar for utility: going 5, 7 or 9 depending on other things. Otherwise, I'd go Druid & Cleric.

Nova:
For nova, either go the smite way, meaning high level Archfey Warlock with Moonbow, pair it with Devotion Paladin 5+ (+CHA on your bow, Extra Attack) and Champion Fighter 3+ (critical on 19/20) or Battlemaster (Precision). This way you can even add Sharpshooter damage quite often.
You'd be an "artillery" like character, clad in heavy armor, not moving much but dealing pretty incredible nova damage. Beware though that you would need a turn of preparation to get the best. You could even enable the Darkness (using Paladin slot) + Devil's Sight combo to get advantage in many occasions. Or just Bless yourself. And most of your greatness would recharge on short rest. Plus Moonbow doesn't put a ceiling on damage, so 5th level is not wasted.
Something like Fighter 3 / Paladin 6 / Tome Warlock 11 seems pretty nifty to me.

Or go the "empowered attacks" way, meaning Fighter and Elemental Weapon: Eldricht Knight 11 / Hexblade Tome Warlock 9 would allow you to cast 5th level Elemental Weapon (+2 to hit, +2d4 damage) on top of consistent 4 attacks per turn (3 with Extra Attack, + Crossbow Expert).

IF you don't trust your DM to distribute rituals like candies, then go on a WIS-based character. In which case a Hunter Ranger 9 / Tempest Cleric 6 / Sheperd Druid 5 could work well: you lack Wizard rituals, which is tough, but you can unleash 2 maximized upcasted Lightning Arrow every short rest, and you still boast much utility overall (healing, exploration, detection, social, etc).

Or an Eldricht Knight 12 / Forge Cleric 5 / Sheperd Druid 3: same idea of Elemental Weapon paired with Hawk aura, plus ability to inflict a debuff on a creature thanks to Eldricht Strike.

My gut says the Champion 3 / Devotion Paladin 6 / Fey Tome Warlock 11 is probably the safest bet, simply because it will probably be a tad easier to make it useful at low levels. Supposing your utility would be needed early...
Start as a Fighter (if you intend to use concentration spell like Darkness or Bless) or Paladin otherwise.
Get Tome Warlock 5 ASAP: you can start looking for rituals, you can get Darkness+Devil's Sight for now, along with either Sharpshooter or Crossbow Expert depending on your taste and tactics and the Moonbow. You already boast decent single-target damage. Immediately grab another Fighter level if you want to boost your nova (using 2 attacks with 2 smites), or start leveling Paladin and don't stop until you get Extra Attack (then take 2nd Fighter if you didn't take it earlier), boosting CHA in the process.
By that time, you are character level 12 , you boast a starting to-hit equal to 4 (proficiency) + 3 (DEX) +2 (Archery). Nothing fancy? For the toughest fight, it will be worth taking the time to fully prepare on the first turn: with Action Surge, use Sacred Weapon (+4 at least) and Darkness (unless damage vulnerability > Elemental Weapon) for advantage. Now your to-hit is equal to 4+3+2+4 = 13. With advantage, you have 96% chance to hit (or ~80% if you want to use the -5+10).
On next level, grab the Fighter level to increase the chance of landing critical hit.
Now you just have to finish leveling Warlock, feeling a steady upgrade in nova damage every two levels. Once you get Warlock 7, you can consider swapping the Darkness/Devil's Sight combo for a plain Greater Invisibility (if your party is annoyed by Darkness for example, or you like Invisibility for other reasons).

This build is actually weaker in sustained damage than most martial except times where you use resource-consuming features, for at least the first half. Obviously. That's what to expect as a drawback for having extremely strong utility and nova damage from a range. ;)

Sorry for the veeerrry long post. I hope you found something inspiring in this (also, don't focus on my suggested builds: I made an "analysis" precisely so you can craft your own character concept, depending on the fluff you want and mechanics/spells priority. So don't be afraid to ditch all my builds if you don't like them or find them too much "late-blooming" -which they certainly are-^^. I didn't even talk about EK/AT+Wizard builds, or original Javelin Monk ones, but there would be things to tell ;)).

Mortis_Elrod
2017-09-16, 11:27 AM
doesn't moonbow require pact of blade? i know he said his dm would wave the patron requirement but what about the pact requirement

Citan
2017-09-16, 11:53 AM
doesn't moonbow require pact of blade? i know he said his dm would wave the patron requirement but what about the pact requirement
Aaaww. Thanks for that.
Didn't double check the UA pdf, my total bad. :/

Well... It does brings some necessary changes indeed. XD
He'll have to choose between nova or utility, or grab utility from other means (Ritual Caster may be enough, or not, I don't really know how much utility he wanted).

Tekrow
2017-09-16, 12:01 PM
Hmm. You did well to ask here, after all many people besides me can help you, and my suggestions may be useful to others too. We are still more on less "in" the topic of the thread too.

So, let's go for a not-so-concise analysis.
You have three axes: utility, nova single-target, stealth, with 3 classes max.

UTILITY
How to get the best utility? The main ways from the "best" to "worst" (I consider here that your DM would be a nice guy that provides loot corresponding to your objectives).
- High level Wizard (DM Dependent): learn additional spells, including rituals.
- High level Druid: versatile in core, has rituals.
- 7+ Tome Warlock with Book of Ancients Secrets Invocation (DM dependent): if your DM is nice, you can hoard all ritual spells.
- High level Cleric (DM dependent): less versatile, but has many spells that can shine in adventuring, although it depends on how DM "answers" your divination spells.
- High level Rogue (somewhat DM dependent, also player dependent): you are not very versatile in core, but Expertise and Reliable Talent can certainly open way to much utility, if you take proficiency in some toolsets or be creative with skills such as Animal Handling. Unfortunately I never really tried to use any (besides healers kit with Healer feat), so I cannot provide any good example. I'm sure that people having played high level Rogues (especially Thiefs) could give you lots of great ideas though.
- Ritual Caster feat (DM dependent): lesser investment ("just" one feat), taking Wizard list, allows you to grab the majority of the best rituals.
- Knowledge CD (Cleric 2): short-rest proficiency in any skill/tool you want. For ponctual needs, you won't get any better than that for such a small investment. Beware of potential fluff strings attached.
- Jack of all Trades (Bard 2): small but still useful boost to any check you are not proficient into
- Skilled feat: kinda the worst option, but may be considered depending on your build.

STEALTH
Stealth means being able to get out of someone's senses (view, but also hearing at least, possibly smell) and Hide.
Tools for that:
- Disable view: Fog Cloud, smoke screen (DM dependent), Darkness, Pyrotechnics, Minor Illusion, Mold Earth are among the things I can think of right now among easy to get tools.
- Disable hearing: not many things here: basically Silence ritual, Fly spell (somewhat DM dependent), Deafness, and some magical objects (I think there is a pair of uncommon magical boots that allow you to move silently, but no idea of the name).
- Disable smell: well, apart from my own homebrew ;), I don't know about any way to disable smell by RAW. With that said, any sensible DM would probably agree that smart use of "wind spells" such as Gust or Gust of Wind, paired or not with vials of smelling potion, would work good enough.
- Enhance skill check: Expertise (Rogue 1 / Bard 3), Enhance Ability (Bard 3 / Sorcerer 3), Pass Without Trace (Druid 3/Shadow Monk 3 / Trickster Cleric 3), Guidance (Cleric 1 / Druid 1 / Magic Initiate) are the only ways I can think of.

SINGLE TARGET NOVA
Many ways to go here.
Magic one is the usual 3*Agonizing Blast (somewhat sustainable) thanks to Action Surge and Quickened.
An extremely powerful one (but requires a full turn or more to set up) would be stacking high level Bestow Curse + Hex + Hexblade as a Fighter 2 / Phoenix Sorcerer X / Warlock X, then unleashing Scorching Ray as high level as possible. That's kinda stupidly OP, but also makes you drop back to a whiny cantrip user for the remaining of the day in something like 2-3 turns.

Otherwise, there is always the Rogue's Sneak Attack, or Paladin's "ranged compatible" smite spells, or Ranger spells, or Warlock's Archfey Moonbow "smiting", or AT/EK's "disadvantage on save" paired with control spells (Entangle, Ensnaring Strike, Hold Person, Branding Smite, Banishing Smite).
Or just a high number of weapon attacks empowered with Sharpshooter and magic buff (so basically Fighter).

CONSIDERING ALL THAT...
Utility: If your DM tends to be nice and generous with loot, I'd go with Tome Warlock as the pillar for utility: going 5, 7 or 9 depending on other things. Otherwise, I'd go Druid & Cleric.

Nova:
For nova, either go the smite way, meaning high level Archfey Warlock with Moonbow, pair it with Devotion Paladin 5+ (+CHA on your bow, Extra Attack) and Champion Fighter 3+ (critical on 19/20) or Battlemaster (Precision). This way you can even add Sharpshooter damage quite often.
You'd be an "artillery" like character, clad in heavy armor, not moving much but dealing pretty incredible nova damage. Beware though that you would need a turn of preparation to get the best. You could even enable the Darkness (using Paladin slot) + Devil's Sight combo to get advantage in many occasions. Or just Bless yourself. And most of your greatness would recharge on short rest. Plus Moonbow doesn't put a ceiling on damage, so 5th level is not wasted.
Something like Fighter 3 / Paladin 6 / Tome Warlock 11 seems pretty nifty to me.

Or go the "empowered attacks" way, meaning Fighter and Elemental Weapon: Eldricht Knight 11 / Hexblade Tome Warlock 9 would allow you to cast 5th level Elemental Weapon (+2 to hit, +2d4 damage) on top of consistent 4 attacks per turn (3 with Extra Attack, + Crossbow Expert).

IF you don't trust your DM to distribute rituals like candies, then go on a WIS-based character. In which case a Hunter Ranger 9 / Tempest Cleric 6 / Sheperd Druid 5 could work well: you lack Wizard rituals, which is tough, but you can unleash 2 maximized upcasted Lightning Arrow every short rest, and you still boast much utility overall (healing, exploration, detection, social, etc).

Or an Eldricht Knight 12 / Forge Cleric 5 / Sheperd Druid 3: same idea of Elemental Weapon paired with Hawk aura, plus ability to inflict a debuff on a creature thanks to Eldricht Strike.

My gut says the Champion 3 / Devotion Paladin 6 / Fey Tome Warlock 11 is probably the safest bet, simply because it will probably be a tad easier to make it useful at low levels. Supposing your utility would be needed early...
Start as a Fighter (if you intend to use concentration spell like Darkness or Bless) or Paladin otherwise.
Get Tome Warlock 5 ASAP: you can start looking for rituals, you can get Darkness+Devil's Sight for now, along with either Sharpshooter or Crossbow Expert depending on your taste and tactics and the Moonbow. You already boast decent single-target damage. Immediately grab another Fighter level if you want to boost your nova (using 2 attacks with 2 smites), or start leveling Paladin and don't stop until you get Extra Attack (then take 2nd Fighter if you didn't take it earlier), boosting CHA in the process.
By that time, you are character level 12 , you boast a starting to-hit equal to 4 (proficiency) + 3 (DEX) +2 (Archery). Nothing fancy? For the toughest fight, it will be worth taking the time to fully prepare on the first turn: with Action Surge, use Sacred Weapon (+4 at least) and Darkness (unless damage vulnerability > Elemental Weapon) for advantage. Now your to-hit is equal to 4+3+2+4 = 13. With advantage, you have 96% chance to hit (or ~80% if you want to use the -5+10).
On next level, grab the Fighter level to increase the chance of landing critical hit.
Now you just have to finish leveling Warlock, feeling a steady upgrade in nova damage every two levels. Once you get Warlock 7, you can consider swapping the Darkness/Devil's Sight combo for a plain Greater Invisibility (if your party is annoyed by Darkness for example, or you like Invisibility for other reasons).

This build is actually weaker in sustained damage than most martial except times where you use resource-consuming features, for at least the first half. Obviously. That's what to expect as a drawback for having extremely strong utility and nova damage from a range. ;)

Sorry for the veeerrry long post. I hope you found something inspiring in this (also, don't focus on my suggested builds: I made an "analysis" precisely so you can craft your own character concept, depending on the fluff you want and mechanics/spells priority. So don't be afraid to ditch all my builds if you don't like them or find them too much "late-blooming" -which they certainly are-^^. I didn't even talk about EK/AT+Wizard builds, or original Javelin Monk ones, but there would be things to tell ;)).

Well, that's a lot of awesome and useful information, thanks. From the things you mentioned, I liked the concept of the druid/ranger/cleric combination, but I was wondering if it would work to exchange the cleric levels for rogue, and maybe a few levels of ranger too for rogue? Thinking about, thematically, I like the rogue playstyle and RP aspect more. What would be he best specialization for each class?

Citan
2017-09-16, 12:27 PM
Well, that's a lot of awesome and useful information, thanks. From the things you mentioned, I liked the concept of the druid/ranger/cleric combination, but I was wondering if it would work to exchange the cleric levels for rogue, and maybe a few levels of ranger too for rogue? Thinking about, thematically, I like the rogue playstyle and RP aspect more. What would be he best specialization for each class?
Hi again!
Well, sure ;) I didn't push into Rogue options because I had the impression you weren't specially attracted by it.
Also I made this example specifically for the "Lightning Storm arrow" feeling.

If you prefer Rogue as a chassis, then the big bit missing will be Extra Attack.
Or maybe you were talking about swapping Cleric only with Rogue?
It's honestly hard to help you with so few information about what you have in mind.

Could you please answer these?
- If your character is 100%, which percentage would you give to skills, magic, martial features? (define respective numbers)
- Would you rather use magic to a) buff yourself, b) buff others, c) debuff others, d) deal damage? (list order of priorities, top first)
- For you (your character ^^), magic is a vocation, a passion, a tool among others, an afterthought? (one choice)

What defines you the most? (up to 2 choices, top first)
1. "When I'm hunting, the prey won't even have the time to notice my presence before a single arrow takes his life".
2. "I usually set up traps and ambushes and try to bring my prey into it".
3. "Big plans and care are not my thing: I just fire, fire and fire at will until my target has ceased breathing."
4. "Planning is for weaks: I use all my might against the enemy I face now, I'll always find something else for the next".

Tekrow
2017-09-16, 12:53 PM
Hi again!
Well, sure ;) I didn't push into Rogue options because I had the impression you weren't specially attracted by it.
Also I made this example specifically for the "Lightning Storm arrow" feeling.

If you prefer Rogue as a chassis, then the big bit missing will be Extra Attack.
Or maybe you were talking about swapping Cleric only with Rogue?
It's honestly hard to help you with so few information about what you have in mind.

Could you please answer these?
- If your character is 100%, which percentage would you give to skills, magic, martial features? (define respective numbers)
- Would you rather use magic to a) buff yourself, b) buff others, c) debuff others, d) deal damage? (list order of priorities, top first)
- For you (your character ^^), magic is a vocation, a passion, a tool among others, an afterthought? (one choice)

What defines you the most? (up to 2 choices, top first)
1. "When I'm hunting, the prey won't even have the time to notice my presence before a single arrow takes his life".
2. "I usually set up traps and ambushes and try to bring my prey into it".
3. "Big plans and care are not my thing: I just fire, fire and fire at will until my target has ceased breathing."
4. "Planning is for weaks: I use all my might against the enemy I face now, I'll always find something else for the next".

Yeah, I like the lightning storm arrow build, I was talking about replacing only cleric or even druid for rogue, but keeping ranger and the other.
I would say the divition would be 40% to martial(mostly related to archery) and 30% to each I think.

I would like to use magic first to deal damage(in the form of arrow attacks like lightning arrow or somethig) and to debuff others(things like Hunter's Mark or Hex, or things like that. Sorry I can't give you more examples, but I don't have that much knowledge about abilities).

I would say for my character magic would be more like a tool. I'm not looking for big fireballs or meteors or polymorphing my enemies, but things like arrow attacks, things related to improve my stealth abilities, like pass without trace or invisibility, and if possible, things related to manipulating people, even if it's small scale.

And I would choose answers 1 and 2 in that order. To better explain myself, I have envisioned an archer that in combat uses stealth and a some magic to deal high single target damage, constantly repositioning himself if necessary to keep gaining advantage over his enemies. Outside of combat, the kind of utility I imagine is small scale, nothing like a high level wizard or stuff, but more like inflitration, persuation and deception, scouting ahead of the party and helping track targets that the part might need to take out. I'm not looking to necessarily be the greatest damage dealer of the party(although if posible, awesome), but at least stay relevant and useful in and out of combat.
Is it possible something like that?

Citan
2017-09-16, 02:10 PM
Yeah, I like the lightning storm arrow build, I was talking about replacing only cleric or even druid for rogue, but keeping ranger and the other.
I would say the divition would be 40% to martial(mostly related to archery) and 30% to each I think.

I would like to use magic first to deal damage(in the form of arrow attacks like lightning arrow or somethig) and to debuff others(things like Hunter's Mark or Hex, or things like that. Sorry I can't give you more examples, but I don't have that much knowledge about abilities).

I would say for my character magic would be more like a tool. I'm not looking for big fireballs or meteors or polymorphing my enemies, but things like arrow attacks, things related to improve my stealth abilities, like pass without trace or invisibility, and if possible, things related to manipulating people, even if it's small scale.

And I would choose answers 1 and 2 in that order. To better explain myself, I have envisioned an archer that in combat uses stealth and a some magic to deal high single target damage, constantly repositioning himself if necessary to keep gaining advantage over his enemies. Outside of combat, the kind of utility I imagine is small scale, nothing like a high level wizard or stuff, but more like inflitration, persuation and deception, scouting ahead of the party and helping track targets that the part might need to take out. I'm not looking to necessarily be the greatest damage dealer of the party(although if posible, awesome), but at least stay relevant and useful in and out of combat.
Is it possible something like that?

Well yes, certainly. ;) The only hard bit will be to keep "magical empowered arrows". But even for that there is an answer: Bard!

In fact, if the kind of spells you like really are the "magical arrow" ones, there aren't that many options: either keep Ranger 9 whatever happens, or make a totally different multiclass and take Bard. The fact that it is a fullcaster class is not really a problem, considering his strong orientation towards skills and utility.

So.. ;)
For a WIS-based: keep Ranger 9 (Lightning Arrow, Conjure Animals, Pass Without Trace -I forgot Ranger had it-), cut Cleric down to 2, idem for Druid, for now. This frees up to to 4+3=7 levels for Rogue: Expertise*2, Cunning Action, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion. Any archetype will do really, although obviously Arcane Trickster has the benefit of bringing a few more tools.
Once you are that far in cutting down Druid, you can even consider shutting it off altogether: if a) you don't like the fluff b) you are not interested in the lvl 1 spells and cantrips and c) you don't care about Druid aura (although it's good imo, but you will have many things to do with bonus action), no regrets: get more Rogue instead. If you like cantrips and spells, just keep one level.
Rogue 1 > Ranger 2 (Hunter's Mark, Archery) should be your starting point, then either aim for Extra Attack ASAP would be my choice but if you'd prefer using spells for nova instead going for the caster levels now may be good too.
Mid-level build should be something like that: Rogue 3 / Cleric 1 / Druid 2 / Ranger 5: you use Hawk and possibly Bless to enhance your attacks.
You won't have that much utility spellwise but you still get some of the most useful party buffs: Bless and Pass Without Trace.
The two big things of that character are nova arrow and versatility.
Dang, forgot about 3 classes max. XD It's a problem for you, drop Druid altogether, instead go up Arcane Trickster 9: here comes Magical Ambush goodness. ;)

For a CHA-based: Arcane Trickster 12 / Lore Bard 6 / Tempest Cleric 2: Lore Bard's Magic Secrets will be tough to choose, between Elemental Weapon, Pass Without Trace, Lightning Arrow, Flame Arrow, or even Slow.
The two big things of this character are debuff (Magical Ambush + Hold Person, Slow, Fear etc) and skills (Expertise + Reliable Talent = win).
To shore up the lack of utiltity, simply pick Ritual Caster: Wizard, since you needed 13+ WIS anyways to get the Channel Divinity feature by dipping Cleric.

If you can bear not having Lightning Arrow, it's honestly much simpler, anything goes, including an INT-based plain Arcane Trickster 11 / Bladesinger Wizard 9: if your DM is nice, it's the simplest to level yet among the best options, since Wizard can change spells and learn potentially all the spellist. If you can squeeze high WIS enough, you could even still put Tempest Cleric 2 somewhere to unleash maximized Lightning Bolts. ;)

The WIS one is the best for nova damage hands down, but also the more complex to level and one with the lesser versatility as far as versatility goes. You do get enough buffs for yourself though (Cleric: Healing Words, Bless. Ranger: Pass Without Trace, Silence. Druid: Longstrider, Hawk aura).
The CHA one is moderately easy to build, suits your idea the most stealth/skill-wise, and can still boast pretty decent nova damage although it will require a preparation turn (bonus action Hide > Magical Ambush debuff spell). The most balanced and, in the end, the best sneak (low level: Enhance Ability, mid level: Pass Without Trace, end career: Reliable Talent).
The INT one is the simplest to build, provides decent versatility from rules, extreme versatility with a generous DM, and can be dreadly for your foes by using Magical Ambush with a powerful spell: it does steer away from your "low magic" intention though obviously.

Choose your pick. ;)

Tekrow
2017-09-16, 02:54 PM
Well yes, certainly. ;) The only hard bit will be to keep "magical empowered arrows". But even for that there is an answer: Bard!

In fact, if the kind of spells you like really are the "magical arrow" ones, there aren't that many options: either keep Ranger 9 whatever happens, or make a totally different multiclass and take Bard. The fact that it is a fullcaster class is not really a problem, considering his strong orientation towards skills and utility.

So.. ;)
For a WIS-based: keep Ranger 9 (Lightning Arrow, Conjure Animals, Pass Without Trace -I forgot Ranger had it-), cut Cleric down to 2, idem for Druid, for now. This frees up to to 4+3=7 levels for Rogue: Expertise*2, Cunning Action, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion. Any archetype will do really, although obviously Arcane Trickster has the benefit of bringing a few more tools.
Once you are that far in cutting down Druid, you can even consider shutting it off altogether: if a) you don't like the fluff b) you are not interested in the lvl 1 spells and cantrips and c) you don't care about Druid aura (although it's good imo, but you will have many things to do with bonus action), no regrets: get more Rogue instead. If you like cantrips and spells, just keep one level.
Rogue 1 > Ranger 2 (Hunter's Mark, Archery) should be your starting point, then either aim for Extra Attack ASAP would be my choice but if you'd prefer using spells for nova instead going for the caster levels now may be good too.
Mid-level build should be something like that: Rogue 3 / Cleric 1 / Druid 2 / Ranger 5: you use Hawk and possibly Bless to enhance your attacks.
You won't have that much utility spellwise but you still get some of the most useful party buffs: Bless and Pass Without Trace.
The two big things of that character are nova arrow and versatility.
Dang, forgot about 3 classes max. XD It's a problem for you, drop Druid altogether, instead go up Arcane Trickster 9: here comes Magical Ambush goodness. ;)

For a CHA-based: Arcane Trickster 12 / Lore Bard 6 / Tempest Cleric 2: Lore Bard's Magic Secrets will be tough to choose, between Elemental Weapon, Pass Without Trace, Lightning Arrow, Flame Arrow, or even Slow.
The two big things of this character are debuff (Magical Ambush + Hold Person, Slow, Fear etc) and skills (Expertise + Reliable Talent = win).
To shore up the lack of utiltity, simply pick Ritual Caster: Wizard, since you needed 13+ WIS anyways to get the Channel Divinity feature by dipping Cleric.

If you can bear not having Lightning Arrow, it's honestly much simpler, anything goes, including an INT-based plain Arcane Trickster 11 / Bladesinger Wizard 9: if your DM is nice, it's the simplest to level yet among the best options, since Wizard can change spells and learn potentially all the spellist. If you can squeeze high WIS enough, you could even still put Tempest Cleric 2 somewhere to unleash maximized Lightning Bolts. ;)

The WIS one is the best for nova damage hands down, but also the more complex to level and one with the lesser versatility as far as versatility goes. You do get enough buffs for yourself though (Cleric: Healing Words, Bless. Ranger: Pass Without Trace, Silence. Druid: Longstrider, Hawk aura).
The CHA one is moderately easy to build, suits your idea the most stealth/skill-wise, and can still boast pretty decent nova damage although it will require a preparation turn (bonus action Hide > Magical Ambush debuff spell). The most balanced and, in the end, the best sneak (low level: Enhance Ability, mid level: Pass Without Trace, end career: Reliable Talent).
The INT one is the simplest to build, provides decent versatility from rules, extreme versatility with a generous DM, and can be dreadly for your foes by using Magical Ambush with a powerful spell: it does steer away from your "low magic" intention though obviously.

Choose your pick. ;)

The CHA based one wouldn't have extra attack right? I think I would choose the WIS based one then if the CHA based one doesn't have extra attack. Now, you are suggesting the cleric level becuase of the tempest's cleric ability to improve lightning arrow, right?

Citan
2017-09-17, 12:12 PM
The CHA based one wouldn't have extra attack right? I think I would choose the WIS based one then if the CHA based one doesn't have extra attack. Now, you are suggesting the cleric level becuase of the tempest's cleric ability to improve lightning arrow, right?
Hi again! Yes on both counts.
Honestly taking Tempest Cleric 2 is only worth it if you really like the idea of maximized lightning arrow and even then I'd probably take the 2nd level very late (you won't get anything lightning related early anyways). Otherwise, just a plain Life Cleric 1 or no Cleric at all would work fine too (you would get more high-level spellcasting instead).

tieren
2017-09-17, 12:46 PM
Druid get the flame arrow spell from EEPC.

Tekrow
2017-09-17, 01:47 PM
Hi again! Yes on both counts.
Honestly taking Tempest Cleric 2 is only worth it if you really like the idea of maximized lightning arrow and even then I'd probably take the 2nd level very late (you won't get anything lightning related early anyways). Otherwise, just a plain Life Cleric 1 or no Cleric at all would work fine too (you would get more high-level spellcasting instead).

Thanks for all your help. I think I'll go with Ranger(Hunter)/Rogue(Assassin)/Druid(Which one would be the best Circle?).

tieren
2017-09-17, 02:02 PM
Thanks for all your help. I think I'll go with Ranger(Hunter)/Rogue(Assassin)/Druid(Which one would be the best Circle?).

You want land circle, grasslands for haste and invisibility

Citan
2017-09-17, 02:52 PM
Thanks for all your help. I think I'll go with Ranger(Hunter)/Rogue(Assassin)/Druid(Which one would be the best Circle?).
Obviously not Moon. ;)

If you go for a 2-3 levels, Sheperd, no hesitation.
If you go for 5 levels and want a great buff, go the Land Druid with Haste (mix of defense/offense), or the one with Blur (great defense), or the one with Misty Step (perfect to avoid bad things) + Mirror Image (great defense with your DEX).

Tekrow
2017-09-17, 03:02 PM
Obviously not Moon. ;)

If you go for a 2-3 levels, Sheperd, no hesitation.
If you go for 5 levels and want a great buff, go the Land Druid with Haste (mix of defense/offense), or the one with Blur (great defense), or the one with Misty Step (perfect to avoid bad things) + Mirror Image (great defense with your DEX).

Alright, thanks for the help. Thanks everyone.

Strangways
2017-09-17, 03:53 PM
What would be the best option for a ranged ranger to multiclass in? UA allowed so Revised Ranger and using either the Revised Hunter Conclave or the Revised Stalker Conclave.

Why do you want to multiclass at all, rather than just going straight ranger?

greenstone
2017-09-18, 10:49 PM
Here's some different advice: Stay a Ranger.

Hide in Plain Sight at level 10, Vanish at level 14. Multiattack or Stalkers Flurry at level 11 (depending on Conclave). Fifth level spells.

Chugger
2017-09-18, 11:17 PM
When I've played with Rangers (all so far have been bow oriented), each one in each fight has had a problem of a meleer (or several meleers) closing with them. Now one DM let a Ranger get away w/ shooting at someone more than 5' from him and not taking a disad, but if you read the phb I'm pretty sure you take a disad trying to shoot anything if one hostile combatant is within 5' of you. Unless you have xbow expert. feat.

Really, Rogue 2 is the only consistent solution to this that isn't spell slot dependent. Meleers' in your face? Don't want to take AoO's? Use Cunning Action to Disengage, step back a bit, and fire away - then move somewhere that makes sense. If no one is on you, try to hide and get off a shot at advantage. And you get 1d6 extra (sneak attack) most of the time.

It seems pretty simple to me, that dipping at least 2 into Rogue is almost "necessary" to make any sort of archer or crossbowman work (unless you go xbow expertise). Even then being able to disengage and set up somewhere else or even possibly hide - seems incredibly good to me.

Mortis_Elrod
2017-09-19, 12:49 AM
When I've played with Rangers (all so far have been bow oriented), each one in each fight has had a problem of a meleer (or several meleers) closing with them. Now one DM let a Ranger get away w/ shooting at someone more than 5' from him and not taking a disad, but if you read the phb I'm pretty sure you take a disad trying to shoot anything if one hostile combatant is within 5' of you. Unless you have xbow expert. feat.

Really, Rogue 2 is the only consistent solution to this that isn't spell slot dependent. Meleers' in your face? Don't want to take AoO's? Use Cunning Action to Disengage, step back a bit, and fire away - then move somewhere that makes sense. If no one is on you, try to hide and get off a shot at advantage. And you get 1d6 extra (sneak attack) most of the time.

It seems pretty simple to me, that dipping at least 2 into Rogue is almost "necessary" to make any sort of archer or crossbowman work (unless you go xbow expertise). Even then being able to disengage and set up somewhere else or even possibly hide - seems incredibly good to me.

I agree, though i haven't had the issues myself. You could also take Close Quarters Shooter fighting style instead of Archery (or in addition to if you mc into fighter)

Sorlock Master
2017-09-19, 04:35 AM
Okay I am surprised no one has mentioned this or I missed it but Swift Quiver is probably the best spell for you. It allows you to take 2 shots woth your bonus action giving you 4 attacks per turn with your bow. Problem is its a 5th level Ranger only spell which means you need at minimum 17 levels of Ranger to access it. With that you only get a single cast per long rest. If you go 19 you get 2 casts per long rest. So if your going to dip it should be either a single level in Rouge or Fighter for thier respective boni, or 3 levels in a full caster class; Sorc, Wiz, Druid, Cleric, and Bard. If I had to pick one I would say it depends.

Skill Focused: 2 in Knowledge Cleric and 1 in Rouge gets you expertise in 4 skills and 3 additional skills.

Damage Focused: Tempest Cleric 3. Gets you 3 casts of swift quiver and max damage on Lighting arrow

Healing Support: Life Cleric 3 levels (go figure)

Super sneaky: 3 in Sorc or Wiz; Misty Step and Invis means you can poof out of sight and go invisible. Druid can do this as well but no metal armor means lower AC.

Utility Support: Trickery Cleric 3

most versitile: Sorc 3 with twin spell you can heal a decent amonut and throw out extra damage.

Keep in mind if your not worried about the metal restriction from druids its a very good fit, and if you can convince your DM to let you use Shilleghe on your bow can be very thematic.

Chugger
2017-09-19, 04:56 AM
I agree, though i haven't had the issues myself. You could also take Close Quarters Shooter fighting style instead of Archery (or in addition to if you mc into fighter)

Is that a UA or in one of the books pls?

And Sorlock, that's a good point about that spell - but as to misty step and all, a simple 2 dip in Rogue solves pretty much _all_ archer mobility problems.

Again, if you get meleers in your face stopping you from taking normal shots (imposing a disad on your ranged shots), you just use your bonus action first (the Cunning Action), disengage, step back, shoot normally, and then move somewhere that makes good sense (like on the other side of the tank, so they can't just follow you necessarily). Rogue 2 is really the best and simplest solution for archers - and something I'd argue they all need. Spells that do the same don't work every fight - you run out of slots. The Rogue 2 dip is available for free every turn. And adds a d6 damage to a shot most of your rounds.

Sorlock Master
2017-09-19, 06:13 AM
If he dips 2 in Rouge he gets only a single cast of Swift Quiver which is 2 less attacks per turn for probably 2 fights. if you disengage your only moving your movement which, unless its augmented by something else, will get you 30 feet as well so the enemy will be able to follow you as well. Misty step is a TP you can use it to put yourself on higher ground that is unreachable or at least requires them to climb. Not to mention that when you cast misty step you still have your remaining movement left so you can move 30 more feet or 60 if you use your action to dash, putting you up to 90 feet away. Plus you can hit them with movement reducing spells like ray of frost which will buy you even more time.

mephnick
2017-09-19, 07:17 AM
It seems pretty simple to me, that dipping at least 2 into Rogue is almost "necessary" to make any sort of archer or crossbowman work (unless you go xbow expertise). Even then being able to disengage and set up somewhere else or even possibly hide - seems incredibly good to me.

Agreed. All the "Rangers" I play are actually Rogue 2/Fighter X's with the Outlander background :smalltongue:

Cunning Action is my favourite ability in the system.

Degwerks
2017-09-19, 07:27 AM
Trying to link this thread

tieren
2017-09-19, 08:18 AM
If he dips 2 in Rouge he gets only a single cast of Swift Quiver which is 2 less attacks per turn for probably 2 fights. if you disengage your only moving your movement which, unless its augmented by something else, will get you 30 feet as well so the enemy will be able to follow you as well. Misty step is a TP you can use it to put yourself on higher ground that is unreachable or at least requires them to climb. Not to mention that when you cast misty step you still have your remaining movement left so you can move 30 more feet or 60 if you use your action to dash, putting you up to 90 feet away. Plus you can hit them with movement reducing spells like ray of frost which will buy you even more time.

If you want swift quiver play a bard and take it at level 10.