Bottle of Air price

[mbolis]

Hello,
I was playing around with (3.5) magic items and something caught my eye: based on the Estimating Magic Item Prices table, a Bottle of Air should cost:
7x3x2000 gp = 42000 gp
7 = caster level, 3 = spell level (water breathing) and 2000 = use activated item.
Now, I know these figures are meant to be purely indicative, but the final official price is 7250 gp!
That's almost 6 times less!
Based on your opinions and experience, what could justify a similar drop in price?

[Zaq]

The guidelines for estimating price are precisely that: guidelines for estimating price. They aren't graven in stone.

The Bottle of Air is relatively hard to abuse or even to particularly use. It's a fun niche item that lends itself to creativity, but it's pretty rare for it to be a game breaker. It also doesn't do much in combat and doesn't have a lasting effect on the environment, so maybe the devs just didn't think it was that powerful. (And of course, the existing magic item prices aren't always fair, though I'm okay with the BoA not being more expensive.)

More than anything, though, don't hew too closely to the estimations if you don't have to. They're quite flawed.

[Elkad]

Hello,
I was playing around with (3.5) magic items and something caught my eye: based on the Estimating Magic Item Prices table, a Bottle of Air should cost:
7x3x2000 gp = 42000 gp
7 = caster level, 3 = spell level (water breathing) and 2000 = use activated item.
Now, I know these figures are meant to be purely indicative, but the final official price is 7250 gp!
That's almost 6 times less!
Based on your opinions and experience, what could justify a similar drop in price?


If it cast Water Breathing as a use-activated item, so you got 14 hours, that might be an accurate price.

Instead you have to spend an action every (con) rounds.
Deep Breath (SpC, L1) is probably the closest effect. 3x1x2000=6000
The extra 1250gp lets you hand it around the whole party.

[Diarmuid]

It also lets you breath in non-water related areas that dont have normal air, so the direct comparisons to spells for breathing underwater are not terribly relevant.

[Arael666]

If it cast Water Breathing as a use-activated item, so you got 14 hours, that might be an accurate price.

Instead you have to spend an action every (con) rounds.
Deep Breath (SpC, L1) is probably the closest effect. 3x1x2000=6000
The extra 1250gp lets you hand it around the whole party.

Ok, I get it and totally agree with you, but why does the necklace of adaptation, which is essentially a better version of water breathing (can breath underwater or on vacuum and protects against vapors and gases) still just mere 9.000 gp?

[Eox]

So that breathing underwater isn't just a caster trick that's prohibitively expensive for everyone else

[Inevitability]

Ok, I get it and totally agree with you, but why does the necklace of adaptation, which is essentially a better version of water breathing (can breath underwater or on vacuum and protects against vapors and gases) still just mere 9.000 gp?

Because not all spells of level X are equal. Utility spells especially tend to have very specific niches that make them useful as an occasional preparation or a scroll, but not as an always-on item. Consider continuous items of something useful in every situation, not only in airless environments, and try to argue it deserves the same price as the Bottle.

[Elkad]

Ok, I get it and totally agree with you, but why does the necklace of adaptation, which is essentially a better version of water breathing (can breath underwater or on vacuum and protects against vapors and gases) still just mere 9.000 gp?

Because in 1e 40% of them were actually a Necklace of Strangulation?


Necklace of Strangulation: Also covered by enchantments to completely mask its true nature, a necklace of strangulation can be discovered only when placed around a character's neck. The necklace' immediately constricts and cannot be removed short of an alter reality, limited wish or wish spell. The wearer will suffer 6 hit points of strangulation damage per round until the character is dead and the necklace' remains clasped until the character is a dry skeleton.

[mbolis]

More than anything, though, don't hew too closely to the estimations if you don't have to. They're quite flawed.

Yeah by now I know... I'm pulling my hair out trying to price a Bottle of Air that can cast Gust of Wind once a day......... And I've got lots of hair!


If it cast Water Breathing as a use-activated item, so you got 14 hours, that might be an accurate price.

Instead you have to spend an action every (con) rounds.


Uhm, this I didn't think of.


It also lets you breath in non-water related areas that dont have normal air, so the direct comparisons to spells for breathing underwater are not terribly relevant.

Precisely this. Its effect is more general than Water Breathing, it should cost more.

I understand its use is situational and not game-breaking at all, but how am I supposed to go about adjudicating such situations!? Rant rant rant...

Thank you everybody, I'll go back to my Flask of the Four Winds and try to give it a random price based on my gut feelings! ;-)

[Elkad]

Yeah by now I know... I'm pulling my hair out trying to price a Bottle of Air that can cast Gust of Wind once a day......... And I've got lots of hair!

Thank you everybody, I'll go back to my Flask of the Four Winds and try to give it a random price based on my gut feelings! ;-)


Does your Gust of Wind just blow around the poisonous gasses already present? (and disperse fog, etc) If it's that regular Evocation effect, that's cheap.
Or does it displace all the air in the room with fresh? (Conjured straight from the Elemental Plane of Air or something). More expensive, but it's so limited use I still wouldn't go crazy. That's the flavor that fits the item best though.

[mbolis]

Nice. That gives me a whole new idea.
Make it a charged item - 1 charge: gust of wind, 2 charges: fill a volume with fresh air, 3 charges: summon a whirlwind (as large air elemental) for a couple rounds