Are winged tieflings good?

[Dankus Memakus]

Really i was just curious, I dunno if i will ever play one but are they good, are wings that useful?

[PeteNutButter]

Really i was just curious, I dunno if i will ever play one but are they good, are wings that useful?

So "useful" that they are perma-banned in organized play. Yes. Flying is extremely powerful at low levels and mandatory at the high ones.

[Aett_Thorn]

Depends on where you will be doing most of the fighting in your campaign. If you're mostly underground, where the ceiling is low, they're pretty useless.

However, if you're mostly fighting outside, they can be downright OP, as you can completely prevent melee enemies from getting to you, so unless your DM makes sure to give enemies ranged weapons, you can pretty much just fly 30 feet up, and hover there raining down death and destruction upon enemies that can't do anything back to you. And some enemies CAN'T reach you. A pack of wolves? Nope. Owlbear? Nope.

So they can be VERY powerful, especially at low levels before you would expect to have spellcasters with Fly, but they do have some restrictions based on where the DM is having you fight.

[Dankus Memakus]

So "useful" that they are perma-banned in organized play. Yes. Flying is extremely powerful at low levels and mandatory at the high ones.

So powerful i shouldn't allow them?

[Naanomi]

So powerful i shouldn't allow them?
In most campaigns I wouldn't

[Dankus Memakus]

In most campaigns I wouldn't

Gotcha. Anytimes that you would?

[Joe the Rat]

Really i was just curious, I dunno if i will ever play one but are they good, are wings that useful?

At-will flight is a fairly powerful ability, particularly from level 1. The earliest you could otherwise fly at all is 5th, and it isn't until 14th(iirc) that it shows up on any class options.
(Okay, so a small-sized beastmaster ranger could get a flying animal companion they could use as a mount at 3rd).
To the point that some (including Adventurer's League rules) consider it unbalancing and/or forbid its use. See all of the Aaracockra discussions, which covers similar ground (at a slightly higher move rate).

I have seen all of one of them in play, and they ended up with some restrictions - essentially they could feather fall as a reaction, and were limited to glides or short bursts (limited rounds / short rest) until higher levels.

What it comes down to is when you feel ready to handle flying players. Some encounters and challenges can be trivialized with flight (anything strictly ground-based melee)- but you can also open up some interesting new ways to mess with them. Flying somewhere when the rest of the party can't means no rescue if you get in trouble, for example.

[Naanomi]

Gotcha. Anytimes that you would?
A campaign where I have (expect) flight for everyone

Maybe a campaign starting at high levels

It would still be the strongest racial ability, but not shatteringly so

[N810]

I'll just leave this here...
#so many sleep spells http://i.imgur.com/GiCn7M8.jpg

[Temperjoke]

There have been arguments regarding flying before. It's a strong ability to have, especially at level one, but it's also been pointed out that there are lots of ways to counter that advantage if a DM wants to take the time and adjust things for the particular group that's playing. It's a knee-jerk reaction to just blanket ban them. Organized play bans them, but that's because organized play has to accommodate as many people as possible, including DMs who cannot or refuse to do extra work in tailoring adventures.

[ghost_warlock]

At low levels, wings are mostly just useful for utility unless you're DMing a world without archers or javelins

[JellyPooga]

I find most reactions to at-will flight to be overreactions. Consider the circumstances where they can't be used or aren't actually that useful;

- in a building
- in a dungeon
- in a forest
- in a social encounter
- in an encounter with anything with a ranged attack
- in an encounter with a foe that can fly

That leaves a very small number of encounters where wings are really that useful and is largely limited to exploration encounters of the "bypass obstacle" variety...and let's face it, those obstacles are rarely a) there to actually prevent progress (i.e. the players are expected to get by it somehow) or b) actually all that interesting or significant.

Yes, wings/flight are/is powerful, but by no means will they break your game.

[Lance Tankmen]

Id say they're evil because they have devils blood but that's just me.

[Naanomi]

Yes, wings/flight are/is powerful, but by no means will they break your game.
It isn't game breaking, but it is significantly stronger than other racial benefits (in most campaigns)... a concentration free perminant third level Spell right?

And I understand banning it in AL... AL is intended to play published adventures as written, and most are not written to accommodate 'just fly over the plot' in the way a more flexible play style can absorb

[JellyPooga]

It isn't game breaking, but it is significantly stronger than other racial benefits (in most campaigns)... a concentration free perminant third level Spell right?

Water Breathing is also a 3rd level spell, but you wouldn't get many complaints about a racial feature allowing you to breathe underwater, even if it allowed you to share it with your companions. I consider that a bad comparison.

As for being significantly stronger; Humans get a Feat, Dragonborn and Dwarves get resistance to damage, Halflings can re-roll pretty much any natural 1 they roll; I consider these all at least on par, if not better than Wings. As I said, wings are good, but are too situational and low-impact to really be put on the pedestal that they are.

They can be problematic for GM's who fail to, or cannot compensate for the added dimension they bring to the table, but then so would be many racial features, including something as simple as being able to speak Orc in a game where the players were "supposed" to have difficulty communicating with their enemies.

Wings are only a problem if the adventure and/or GM is inflexible.

[Nifft]

- in a social encounter


Counter-argument:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOJtLC2pRII




- in an encounter with a foe that can fly


That's actually an argument FOR the power of flying PCs.

Being able to take the fight to a flying monster is not a trivial thing.

[JellyPooga]

Counter-argument:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOJtLC2pRII

Counter-counter-argument; a winged devil-creature turning up on your doorstep oft offends :smallwink:


That's actually an argument FOR the power of flying PCs.

Being able to take the fight to a flying monster is not a trivial thing.

Tielflings Wings grant a measly 30ft Fly speed. That's definitely on the low end of Fly Speeds. If you're fighting a flying creature, you're almost certainly at a disadvantage for being comparatively slow.

[GlenSmash!]

As a DM if one of my players wanted to play a Flying Tiefling I think I would let them.

Thinking back to my last few encounters, it would really only have stopped some minor fall damage and help make one encounter with some goblins and one with some bandits go easier.

Of course YMMV.

[Max_Killjoy]

You know what we call flying soldiers?

Skeet.

[Naanomi]

You know what we call flying soldiers?

Skeet.
Skeet that shoots back

[JackPhoenix]

Water Breathing is also a 3rd level spell, but you wouldn't get many complaints about a racial feature allowing you to breathe underwater, even if it allowed you to share it with your companions. I consider that a bad comparison.

As for being significantly stronger; Humans get a Feat, Dragonborn and Dwarves get resistance to damage, Halflings can re-roll pretty much any natural 1 they roll; I consider these all at least on par, if not better than Wings. As I said, wings are good, but are too situational and low-impact to really be put on the pedestal that they are.

If you consider resistance on par or better than wings, how about the fact tiefling gets wings AND fire resistance?

[PeteNutButter]

Before you consider allowing a flying race, make sure you understand its benefits:

It allows a number of characters to basically ignore all melee threats permanently, unless in enclosed spaces. If the character is ranged, has disengage options, uses a reach weapon, etc they can almost never be attacked by melee.

It bypasses all sorts of rough or hazardous terrain, as well as probably the majority of traps as written in published content (can be worked around).

It alleviates the threat of falling.

It opens up extremely powerful grapple opportunities via fly and drop.

There is probably more...

[JellyPooga]

If you consider resistance on par or better than wings, how about the fact tiefling gets wings AND fire resistance?

I consider it in the same light that I consider that Dwarves get resistance to Poison damage and Advantage on Saves against Poison (which is one of the most common bonus damage riders in the MM), weapon proficiencies (equivalent to a weak Feat), either armour proficiency or additional HP (either of which is another Feat) and a +2 bonus to the sole Ability Score that all Classes want (if not require).

I consider it in the same light that I consider that Half-Orcs have a level 15 Paladin ability at level 1.

I consider it in the same light that I consider that Gnomes get Advantage on all Int/Wis/Cha Saves against magic (which is functionally all such Saves).

Fire Damage might be one of the most commonly resisted damage types in the MM, but not a great deal of critters deal it. As I've discussed, Wings are a situational boon. Compared to the abilities that some Races get, take a look at the whole package; Tieflings are pretty weak outside of a very small number of builds, even with Wings. At higher levels, those Wings can easily be replaced with magic, items or a mount (you may even want to, in order to get a higher Fly speed), rendering them a largely useless feature, while other Races get largely unique features that will keep on giving.

[N810]

It alleviates the threat of falling.

You also increase your chance of falling by flying during a battle...
any sort of effect or status that would incapacitate you would result in a fall.
(hold person, sleep unconscious, etc...)