Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not (Quarterstaff Only)?

[Mikal]

After getting over my cursebringer sour grapes, I decided to start building a Hexblade to see how useful/strong it would be. Pact of the Blade, uses melee and falls back on EB for range.

After going through 95% of the way I want the build to go, I was considering his main weapon. At first I thought the longsword would be a no brainer, going Variant Human for Lucky or Blade Mastery. However, after looking at the math at higher levels, I'm not considering Quarterstaff/Polearm Mastery.

The biggest drawback with it is that it requires a bonus action to use though, which negates a lot of the options I had planned with Hexblade. So my question is... which would be better in the long run? The weapon average damage only factors slightly into this, since the bonus attack from PM's base damage equals out.

Pros of Polearm Mastery:
1) 3rd Attack at level 12 with Lifedrinker, making most melee attack actions (1d8+5+5+1d6)*2+1d4+5+5+1d6 per round, before smites, not factoring in specific magic weapons, providing average DPR of 52 as well as Hexblade Curse damage and crit threat occurring one additional time. Compare this to 38 DPR from a two handed longsword attack.
2) Opportunity attacks when enemies enter threat range, allowing for additional 1d8+5+5+1d6+Hexblade Curse damage. Could apply Sentinel as well for extra tactical control.

Drawbacks:
1) Extra feat required to make use. 2 feats if using Sentinel options.
2) Many Warlock/Hexblade abilities also use Bonus Actions, negating third attack somewhat regularly. Examples- Hexblade's Curse, Maddening Hex, Relentless Hex, Hex spell.

So I guess the question is whether or not it's worth it, and if so, when? Obviously Polearm gets the best boost once it can add in Lifedrinker damage, but even taken at first level it's useful for boosting your damage.

If anyone has other considerations I'm missing, please feel free to add those as well.

[Mikal]

bumping to 1st again

[Degwerks]

I'm in a similar situation myself. I'm also on the fence about getting PAM. In my case I can turn my pact weapon into the staff and its a special magic weapon that deals 3d6 poison damage per hit on top of weapon damage.

The way I see it I can get both an extra bonus attack each round plus the free occasional opportunity attack. At level 12 this will be even more damage. Not counting 1 to 2 more chances of getting a critical hit with a 19-20 threat range. Plus smites. Which I can't remember if I can smite on another person's turn or not. If so even better.

[Mikal]

I'm in a similar situation myself. I'm also on the fence about getting PAM. In my case I can turn my pact weapon into the staff and its a special magic weapon that deals 3d6 poison damage per hit on top of weapon damage.

The way I see it I can get both an extra bonus attack each round plus the free occasional opportunity attack. At level 12 this will be even more damage. Not counting 1 to 2 more chances of getting a critical hit with a 19-20 threat range. Plus smites. Which I can't remember if I can smite on another person's turn or not. If so even better.

DM is making your pact weapon 3d6 poison per hit in additional to regular damage? Ouch.

And you should be able to smite with OAs. It says any time you hit a creature with the pact weapon.

[Belltent]

I'm in a similar situation myself. I'm also on the fence about getting PAM. In my case I can turn my pact weapon into the staff and its a special magic weapon that deals 3d6 poison damage per hit on top of weapon damage.


Good god, that's insane. Where's the decision there? One handing a staff with hex is like
14d6+d4+modifiers per round.

[Easy_Lee]

I recommend PM.

Can use a quarterstaff as your arcane focus
Can wield a magical staff with spells in it as a melee weapon, meaning you won't need to draw it to use it
SAD means your eldritch blast and similar are just as effective. If you take warcaster and repelling blast with PM, you can potentially blast dangerous foes back ten feet for stepping into range...or just hit them with a weapon cantrip.

Quarterstaff on a Hexblade just works.

[Mikal]

Good god, that's insane. Where's the decision there? One handing a staff with hex is like
14d6+d4+modifiers per round.

2d6+10+1d4+5 physical (additional 12-18 physical if target has Hexblade's Curse applied) (additional 3-9 if using a magic weapon)
3d6+15 Necrotic (Hex+Life Drinker)
9d6 Poison
6d8-18d8 Force (Depending on how many smites used. All 5th level due to Warlock spell slots when Lifedrinker comes online)

130-199 damage average before immunity/resistance. Note high end damage does require the use of 3-4 spells though, so you likely won't be doing it often.

vs.

2d8+10 physical (additional 8-12 Hexblade's curse) (additional 2-6 if using magic weapon)
2d6+10 Necrotic (Hex+Life Drinker)
6d6 Poison
6d8-12d8 Force (Smites)

101-129 damage. Note high end damage does require the use of 3-4 spells.

Yup. With the 3d6 Poison the extra attack from PAM is really a no-brainer.


I recommend PM.

Can use a quarterstaff as your arcane focus
Can wield a magical staff with spells in it as a melee weapon, meaning you won't need to draw it to use it
SAD means your eldritch blast and similar are just as effective. If you take warcaster and repelling blast with PM, you can potentially blast dangerous foes back ten feet for stepping into range...or just hit them with a weapon cantrip.

Quarterstaff on a Hexblade just works.

Yeah, leaning that way too. But when to fire it up?
If V-Human, obviously take PAM with the 1st feat, but Sentinel- Around 12? Charisma to 20 would take precedence over Sentinel I think.
If a Half-Elf or non V-Human, do you delay Cha to 20 instead and take PAM at 4? I would guess so.
And do you drop Maddening Hex? You lose out on some small burst range damage, but it does make it more worthwhile for PAM bonus attacks, though you reliably won't get to use them until at least round 3 (round 1- HB Curse, Round 2- Hex)

[Arkhios]

I'm not 100% certain how many other Bonus Action features a Hexblade Warlock otherwise has, but if there's even one that they can (and would) use every turn, especially if it's without a short/long rest limit, I'd advise against PM.

[Mikal]

I'm not 100% certain how many other Bonus Action features a Hexblade Warlock otherwise has, but if there's even one that they can (and would) use every turn, especially if it's without a short/long rest limit, I'd advise against PM.

The main ones would either be casting the Hex spell itself, Shadow Hound placement, or using Hexblade's Curse and invocations that ride it (Relentless for short range teleport, Maddening for very minor burst damage). So in short, almost all Hexblade features either require a bonus action, or key off another feature that requires a bonus action.

Except for the Hound, half are once per fight, one is situational and very small damage (5 max), and one would likely be used only if your target somehow got out of range even with Sentinel. And the Hound wouldn't be very often either, potentially less than Relentless Hex.

[PeteNutButter]

Hex is a good spell, but as you get higher in levels there is usually a better option for your concentration.

If you take PAM just don't take the invocations that do damage on a bonus action. There are plenty of options.

Since your PAM attack requires the attack action your basic strategy should be cast a concentration spell on round one and curse a target as a bonus action. From there on you can engage in attack and bonus action attack. The curse moves for free when you kill things and there is no reason to fiddle with hex.

To sum up I'd not take PAM until level 8+ unless you are a variant human.

[Foff]

I tend to go with a 1 handed weapon to use CHA for everything, i built my Fallen Aasimar Hexblade to be a semi durable frontliner with sword and shield ( got to 19 CA with half plate and shield ).

a PAM hexblade will probably do more damage in the long run but I like the ability to dump all stats besides CHA and CON

[Mikal]

Hex is a good spell, but as you get higher in levels there is usually a better option for your concentration.

If you take PAM just don't take the invocations that do damage on a bonus action. There are plenty of options.

Since your PAM attack requires the attack action your basic strategy should be cast a concentration spell on round one and curse a target as a bonus action. From there on you can engage in attack and bonus action attack. The curse moves for free when you kill things and there is no reason to fiddle with hex.

To sum up I'd not take PAM until level 8+ unless you are a variant human.

That does bring up an interesting question- is it worth it at lower levels to GFB/Booming Blade then, knowing you'll be supplanting it with actual attacks in 5 levels?


I tend to go with a 1 handed weapon to use CHA for everything, i built my Fallen Aasimar Hexblade to be a semi durable frontliner with sword and shield ( got to 19 CA with half plate and shield ).

a PAM hexblade will probably do more damage in the long run but I like the ability to dump all stats besides CHA and CON

This discussion is specifically with using PAM and a quarterstaff. Since it's versatile, you can still use CHA! Edited title thread to clarify, sorry.

[Foff]

Hex is a good spell, but as you get higher in levels there is usually a better option for your concentration.

If you take PAM just don't take the invocations that do damage on a bonus action. There are plenty of options.

Since your PAM attack requires the attack action your basic strategy should be cast a concentration spell on round one and curse a target as a bonus action. From there on you can engage in attack and bonus action attack. The curse moves for free when you kill things and there is no reason to fiddle with hex.

To sum up I'd not take PAM until level 8+ unless you are a variant human.

last I checked the curse doesn't move at all and you can't use it more than once per day before level 14

[Mikal]

last I checked the curse doesn't move at all and you can't use it more than once per day before level 14

Curse recharges on short or long rest prior to level 14.
With Cursebringer you could transfer the Curse, which was what the other person was likely thinking of. The new Eldritch Smite doesn't allow it.

[Mandragola]

You get an extra bonus with PAM. Since there's much less point casting hex, you don't necessarily cast it. That effectively doubles (from 1 to 2!) the number of spell slots you have in any given fight.

I just wanted to throw that consideration into the mix. Hex is great of course, and central to warlock mechanics. But PAM and lifedrinker kind of replaces it much of the time, leaving the spell slot free to counterspell with (or whatever). You could even load up a different concentration spell to use once in a while.

I don't think you really need sentinel if you're going with a staff. The main trick with sentinel and polearms is preventing people from reaching you, and you won't have reach anyway.

[Mikal]

You get an extra bonus with PAM. Since there's much less point casting hex, you don't necessarily cast it. That effectively doubles (from 1 to 2!) the number of spell slots you have in any given fight.

I just wanted to throw that consideration into the mix. Hex is great of course, and central to warlock mechanics. But PAM and lifedrinker kind of replaces it much of the time, leaving the spell slot free to counterspell with (or whatever). You could even load up a different concentration spell to use once in a while.

I don't think you really need sentinel if you're going with a staff. The main trick with sentinel and polearms is preventing people from reaching you, and you won't have reach anyway.

Sentinel does a lot with Quarterstaves. For me it's less about keeping people away, and more about keeping your victims there...
1) OA attacks make the target's speed become 0.
2) With PAM and Sentinel you get an OA when someone enters *or* attempts to leave your reach without using teleport or similar magic (so potentially 2 attacks in 1 round per enemy who does this if you can get tunnel fighter). Or are a swashbuckler, I guess.
3) Reaction attack if someone in 5 feet of you attacks someone else.

Sure it's not as wide ranging as an actual reach weapon, but it does essentially make your focused target (who should also be Cursed) unable to escape your wrath without using magic.
In addition, starting at level 12 they get a 50% miss chance when attacking you if Cursed. And if they do hit you with a melee weapon and you have AoA up that's 30 cold damage, plus a potential 6d10 fire damage if you decide to use Hellish Rebuke as a reaction regardless of what attack is used to damage you.

If they do escape, then you forced them to blow a resource to do so instead of just walking away.

All-in-all, for your focused target, not a very good day.

Does bring up an interesting point though- I was thinking of MCing into Sorcerer for extra spell slots after 14th, but now I might just go fighter 1 after the level I take Sentinel for tunnel fighter to remove the reaction restriction.

[Degwerks]

DM is making your pact weapon 3d6 poison per hit in additional to regular damage? Ouch.

And you should be able to smite with OAs. It says any time you hit a creature with the pact weapon.

Actually the magic weapon I have does that extra poison damage, and I made it my pact weapon, which is a quarterstaff now.

[Degwerks]

My original plan was to grab 3 levels minimum of Sea Sorcerer to extend my Eldritch Blast-Grasp of Hadar to 25 feet. Pull an enemy up to 25 closer to me with a Quickened Eldritch Blast with the Grasp of Hadar invocation and then use my 2 attacks on him. With smites if I need to. I still plan on doing this on my next level up.

I burned my 8th level feat to get Warcaster and will have to wait until 4 more levels to get PAM or see if I can trade the feat out. Which I haven't used Warcaster yet so I might be able to. If I don't have Warcaster though I can't cast spells with somatic components while using my shield too.

[Mikal]

Actually the magic weapon I have does that extra poison damage, and I made it my pact weapon, which is a quarterstaff now.

Even more reason to go PAM with it then!

[Mandragola]

So has there been any clarity on letting you change the form a magical pact blade takes? I thought it stayed as whatever weapon it was to start with.

[Arkhios]

So has there been any clarity on letting you change the form a magical pact blade takes? I thought it stayed as whatever weapon it was to start with.

Myeah, the feature in the book says nothing about a bound weapon becoming "malleable". You either make the pact weapon out of thin air when it can take the form of any melee weapon as you wish, OR you can bind a magic weapon to become your pact weapon. The bound weapon does not change size, shape, or type when you dismiss and summon it back. It's always the same as it was before binding it. Allowing it's form to be changed is very liberal way of reading the feature. Or at best, wishful thinking.

[Degwerks]

Yeah , there was a Sage Advice tweet about it. If you have an already magical weapon, you can do your bonding ritual with it and when you summon it, you can choose the form it takes and become proficient with it. The Sage Advice even stated you can turn it into a ranged weapon.

[Arkhios]

Yeah , there was a Sage Advice tweet about it. If you have an already magical weapon, you can do your bonding ritual with it and when you summon it, you can choose the form it takes and become proficient with it. The Sage Advice even stated you can turn it into a ranged weapon.

Quote please. Nevermind, found it:


If a warlock uses Pact of the Blade to bond with a magic weapon, does that weapon have to be a melee weapon, and can the warlock change the weapon’s form?
The warlock’s Pact of the Blade feature (PH, 107–8) lets you create a melee weapon out of nothing. Whenever you do so, you determine the weapon’s form, choosing from the melee weapon options in the Weapons table in the Player’s Handbook (p. 149). For example, you can create a greataxe, and then use the feature again to create a javelin, which causes the greataxe to disappear.

You can also use Pact of the Blade to bond with a magic weapon, turning it into your pact weapon. This magic weapon doesn’t have to be a melee weapon, so you could use the feature on a +1 longbow, for instance. Once the bond is formed, the magic weapon appears whenever you call your pact weapon to you, and the intent is that you can’t change the magic weapon’s form when it appears. For example, if you bond with a flame tongue (longsword) and send the weapon to the feature’s extradimensional space, the weapon comes back as a longsword when you summon it. You don’t get to turn it into a club. Similarly, if you bond with a dagger of venom, you can’t summon it as a maul; it’s always a dagger.

The feature initially allows the conjuring forth of a melee weapon, yet we allow more versatility when it comes to magic weapons. We didn’t want a narrow focus in this feature to make a warlock unhappy when a variety of magic weapons appear in a campaign. Does this versatility extend outside the melee theme of the feature? It sure does, but we’re willing to occasionally bend a design concept if doing so is likely to increase a player’s happiness.

[Degwerks]

Quote please.

Its in a thread here on the forums. Within the last week someone posted a ranged weapon warlock build. I don't have twitter but I'll see if this old Nook tablet of mine can try and link it.

[Arkhios]

Its in a thread here on the forums. Within the last week someone posted a ranged weapon warlock build. I don't have twitter but I'll see if this old Nook tablet of mine can try and link it.

Found it, look above.

[Degwerks]

Thanks for linking that. Still can't figure out how to do that.

[Mandragola]

Ok that was my interpretation as well. You can create any weapon you want, but that's not at all the same thing as changing the shape of an existing weapon.

[Easy_Lee]

Ok that was my interpretation as well. You can create any weapon you want, but that's not at all the same thing as changing the shape of an existing weapon.

With the limitation that it must be a melee weapon. The most common ruling I've seen is that the Warlock is limited to melee weapons that appear on the weapons table in the PHB. It's a shame, since a Warlock who summons and throws a conjured shield would be quite American cool.