Changing Racial HD

[Technetium43]

Hey, I've been looking for ways to buff up some monsters with a surplus of terrible HD, but the rules on this kind of stuff is very... inconsistent. Most templates and such that change type to, for example, outsider, specifically say to not change HD/BAB things like that, but I haven't been able to find any global rule that states that's how it normally works. Additionally, some templates change certain aspects of their base stats but not others, like hit dice size or skills. If a creature gains the outsider type due to a feat, class feature, or template and it DOESN'T have that clause, does it change their HD to be less terrible? What if it's an inherited template vs. an acquired template? If it doesn't, why?

[Psyren]

3.5 or Pathfinder?

[Venger]

Hey, I've been looking for ways to buff up some monsters with a surplus of terrible HD, but the rules on this kind of stuff is very... inconsistent. Most templates and such that change type to, for example, outsider, specifically say to not change HD/BAB things like that, but I haven't been able to find any global rule that states that's how it normally works. Additionally, some templates change certain aspects of their base stats but not others, like hit dice size or skills. If a creature gains the outsider type due to a feat, class feature, or template and it DOESN'T have that clause, does it change their HD to be less terrible? What if it's an inherited template vs. an acquired template? If it doesn't, why?

what specifically are you trying to do?

There is not a generalized rule for this, it's done piecemeal. Some templates have you reroll your old RHD. some have you reroll ones from class also. What are you starting as, and what do you want to turn into? That will help us give you better information.

[Technetium43]

what specifically are you trying to do?

There is not a generalized rule for this, it's done piecemeal. Some templates have you reroll your old RHD. some have you reroll ones from class also. What are you starting as, and what do you want to turn into? That will help us give you better information.

I'm not specifically trying to do much of anything, this is just something that's been bothering me for a while. It's come up for stuff like the villainous competitions though, and for making encounters for a friend's group, so I would prefer something that allows a creature with a lot of bad hit dice (like aberrations, giants, etc.) to unambiguously change those hit dice to that of a better type (monstrous humanoid, outsider, dragon, etc.). Including things like saves, BAB, and HD size. I see a lot of things that explicitly state they DON'T do this, but a number that don't say one way or another. Ideally, there would be some method to do it without drastically increasing CR or LA.

EDIT: Also, 3.5. If it were pathfinder, I would label it as such, but I understand why you ask since not every is apparently capable of the same. :smallsigh:

[Psyren]

EDIT: Also, 3.5. If it were pathfinder, I would label it as such, but I understand why you ask since not every is apparently capable of the same. :smallsigh:

I think you're rushing to judgment a bit quickly - a lot of people simply forget the forum tags, or they post from mobile where they don't show up, or they might be open to hearing how both games handle a certain topic. So whenever someone asks for help on something that exists in both editions, I like to at least ask the question.

[edathompson2]

Hey, I've been looking for ways to buff up some monsters with a surplus of terrible HD, but the rules on this kind of stuff is very... inconsistent. Most templates and such that change type to, for example, outsider, specifically say to not change HD/BAB things like that, but I haven't been able to find any global rule that states that's how it normally works. Additionally, some templates change certain aspects of their base stats but not others, like hit dice size or skills. If a creature gains the outsider type due to a feat, class feature, or template and it DOESN'T have that clause, does it change their HD to be less terrible? What if it's an inherited template vs. an acquired template? If it doesn't, why?

You can increase HD using the rules in the back of the MM. As far as templates, there is no 1 standard rule. Some templates are more powerful than others so you don't get a change in HD type.

Basically, if it doesn't say to do so in the description, you don't.

[Thurbane]

As far as templates, there is no 1 standard rule. Some templates are more powerful than others so you don't get a change in HD type.

Basically, if it doesn't say to do so in the description, you don't.

This. Most templates that give benefits of decent HD (like Outsider skill points) come with a hefty LA, as well. Half-fiend or Unholy Scion, for example. They usually work better for NPCs/monsters than PCs.