Pirate campaign: Guns

[xkroku]

Hello Playgrounders!

I'm currently preparing (VERY early stage) a pirate-themed D&D 3.5 campaign, and I have some questions/problems.

The biggest of them is: How to handle guns? And gun-related things like gunner feats, maybe even a gunner class, and of course the statistics of guns.


I was thinking about just making guns martial ranged weapons, or adopting the rules from Pathfinder (mainly the gunslinger class).
But I have a problem with it. Pathfinder is a bit higher powered than 3.5, and Pathfinder gun mechanics are a bit too complicated.
The guns' statistics in Pathfinder are ok, but the prices imo are too high, but that isn't really an issue.


I don't know how to make gun feats work. If we're talking existing feats, should guns count as crossbows, bows or something else?
Or should I just also take them from Pathfinder?

Thanks for help!

[MindTheGap97]

I would simply bring the Pathfinder rules over to 3.5, gunslingers have very high damage potential but the gunslinger class is not really strong, one thing though, use only the early firearms because the advanced ones are really powerful, maybe make guns martial weapons instead of exotic, the prices can be lowered a bit if you intend to make guns widespread in your world.

[dascarletm]

Drop the misfire rules, and drop the armor pen rules. Reduce the price to 1/10th the listed value. They're not much more powerful than a crossbow or bow IMO.

[MindTheGap97]

Drop the misfire rules, and drop the armor pen rules. Reduce the price to 1/10th the listed value. They're not much more powerful than a crossbow or bow IMO.

Well, they do hit touch AC...this is not a big issue if you intend to have many enemies with low touch AC, but enemies that rely on natural armor to avoid damage are going to be filled with lead really fast...

[dascarletm]

Well, they do hit touch AC...this is not a big issue if you intend to have many enemies with low touch AC, but enemies that rely on natural armor to avoid damage are going to be filled with lead really fast...

yeah, it just makes the DM's life a lot easier if they don't need to worry about balancing that sort of stuff. I don't find it detracts from guns to drop it regardless.

[Crake]

Drop the misfire rules, and drop the armor pen rules. Reduce the price to 1/10th the listed value. They're not much more powerful than a crossbow or bow IMO.

I disagree with droppign the armor penetration rules, what I would suggest (it's what I use for guns in my game) is the class defense bonus variant from unearthed arcana. Seafaring games and games involving firearms are two of the specific examples of when the variant was intended to be used, and you're using both of them! Basically, long story short, you get a class defense bonus that doesn't stack with armor, but it does add to your touch AC. This helps in seafaring games, because you aren't expected to wear armor that could quite easily cause you to drown if you get knocked overboard, and it helps in games with firearms by making the fact that you're hitting touch AC not such a big deal anymore, because people will generally have better touch AC. Still very useful against monsters and whatnot, who's touch AC will still be terrible, but less so against NPCs.

If you still want to incentivize people to wear armor, use the armor as DR variant, to give armor use beyond AC (obviously guns will still bypass that DR, since they're hitting touch).

[dascarletm]

I disagree with droppign the armor penetration rules, what I would suggest (it's what I use for guns in my game) is the class defense bonus variant from unearthed arcana. Seafaring games and games involving firearms are two of the specific examples of when the variant was intended to be used, and you're using both of them! Basically, long story short, you get a class defense bonus that doesn't stack with armor, but it does add to your touch AC. This helps in seafaring games, because you aren't expected to wear armor that could quite easily cause you to drown if you get knocked overboard, and it helps in games with firearms by making the fact that you're hitting touch AC not such a big deal anymore, because people will generally have better touch AC. Still very useful against monsters and whatnot, who's touch AC will still be terrible, but less so against NPCs.

If you still want to incentivize people to wear armor, use the armor as DR variant, to give armor use beyond AC (obviously guns will still bypass that DR, since they're hitting touch).

Either way really. Some players don't like the idea that guns just punch through dragon-scales, some don't mind. It does simplify using them though, but if you don't mind adding extra work, tacking on the class def rules helps.

[Thurbane]

I think we need a stickied thread about guns in 3E.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?530062
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?529829
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?517989
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?517478
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?479981
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?454261
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?344050
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?188681

[Yahzi]

The biggest of them is: How to handle guns?
Guns boils down to one of two approaches:

1) Nothing changes. They're just re-fluffed crossbows. So you can fire your crossbow with 1 hand and carry another loaded one in your belt. OK. that's nice.

2) Everything changes. Everyone starts using guns almost all the time, because you know, in the real world, that's what happened as soon as people figured out you could make horse manure explode. Pirates carried swords to finish engagements, when you stormed the enemy in the final 30 seconds of battle. The hours of combat before that was fought with musket and cannon.