Building a wizard for JumpChain, seeking OP cheese

[DataPacRat]

In JumpChain, a character acquires some powers from a semi-random near-omnipotent being, gets tossed into a multiverse, spends a decade or more there, and then gets an additional set of powers and tossed into a different multiverse; rinse and repeat.

I'm toying with a JumpChain character who spends some time in a 3.5 edition multiverse, probably doing some spelljamming, and I'm trying to find the most overpowered piece of munchkinry that he can use in his future jumps. For example, for a while I was excited to try using the Permanent Emanation feat with an Epic spell, before somebody elseforum pointed out that metamagic-style feats don't play with Epic magic.

His long-term goal is to retroactively prevent various multiverses from having eterna-torture afterlives, by combining various powers he picks up, such as time-travel and pocket planes.

A few technical details:

* If a jumper dies, even once, even if he's resurrected, he gets a "chainfail". (Not counting a few potential exceptions that don't apply here.)
* This particular jumper has been given an extra limit in his chain: his species has to stay as close as possible to being an 'oversized winged squirrel', such as some sort of dog-sized squirrel-like griffon. So no body-swapping into ice-assassin aleaxes, I'm afraid. My current approach is to build him as a "Half-Celestial Anthropomorphic Squirrel of Legend Saint". (There's a point-budget involved based on CR.)
* This particular jumper has a very specific ethical viewpoint, which is the whole reason I'm playing around with this. He would consider any munchkinry requiring him to change from Neutral Good to violate the values he's trying to fulfill; so no using vile feats to rebuild himself.
* He won't be bringing anyone out of this jump who didn't come in with him; so Leadership maximizing probably won't be of much help.
* The rules for D&D jumps explicitly say that if a jumper becomes Pun Pun, or gets a Divine Rank of more than 0, they don't get to go to the next jump.
* On the plus side, due to some powers he gained in a previous jump, he can mentally scan nearby objects, and upon collecting sufficient mana, conjure up copies.
* Also on the plus side, due to out-of-context powers by the omnipotent being in question, this jumper is entering the D&D multiverse with every ability score being 17, and is being given all item creation feats for free.

My initial, simple thoughts have been to massively abuse those latter abilities, starting by giving him a level of Artificer, all the gp he cares to conjure up, as well as as much ambrosia (from Book of Exalted Deeds) as is required to pay XP costs. So that, in a future jump to an Earth-like world, he can shift society much closer to post-scarcity by distributing billions of Periapts of Health, Travel Cloaks, and custom items with other useful spell-effects. (And if I can find a way to arrange it, large numbers of copies of a variant of the epic spell "Ioulaum's Longevity" from "Lost Empires of Faerun", to use to disintegrate chickens to prevent old age.)

But I think more could be done within D&D's rules; I've read of the Tippyverse and the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle and Ancestral Relic Custom Runestaves and such. Regular over-powering may not be appropriate, but I suspect there are still a few wrinkles in the RAW I don't know of, which could be of use in the future. Even something as simple as the Reform and Redeem feats from "The Book of Hallowed Might" might be the basis for some truly epicly stinky cross-multiversal cheese.

Anyone care to help me work out something that'll pass muster? :)

[Goaty14]

So you want to play a wizard who's goal is to advance society into Eberron in hopes of stopping evil?
Question: What does a "Chainfail" do?

[DataPacRat]

So you want to play a wizard who's goal is to advance society into Eberron in hopes of stopping evil?

Close enough. (And I don't mind if it works out to be something like Artificer 1 / Wizard 6 / Geometer 5 / Archmage 5 / Loremaster 16.)


Question: What does a "Chainfail" do?

The jumper fails the jumpchain, and their patron sends them back to their homeworld instead of continuing to give them juicy new powers. Short version, just something to avoid.

[DataPacRat]

I'd like to look at this from another perspective There are a few ways 3.5e lets you simply step outside of the usual action economy, of adding +3 to a skill roll or increasing resistance to damage of a particular energy type, to do something truly exceptional, beyond what can be expressed in those terms.

The best two examples I know of: in "Legends of the Twins" is the spell Time Reaver, allowing travel to different times; and in the SRD, the spell "Genesis" allows the creation of a new pocket plane (or expansion thereof).

How many other ways are there to simply go outside the usual rules?

[Crake]

Close enough. (And I don't mind if it works out to be something like Artificer 1 / Wizard 6 / Geometer 5 / Archmage 5 / Loremaster 16.)



The jumper fails the jumpchain, and their patron sends them back to their homeworld instead of continuing to give them juicy new powers. Short version, just something to avoid.

Get to epic levels in a 3.5 universe and you don't need a patron anymore

[DataPacRat]

Get to epic levels in a 3.5 universe and you don't need a patron anymore

A JumpChain patron provides abilities I don't recall ever seeing any D&D deity provide - up to and including an Oldwalker Planeswalker spark. (The pursuit of which provides the main impetus for jumpers to play along with the whole thing.) If you know of a way for epic feats, spells, class or race abilities to accomplish that... I'd actually be interested to read how to manage it. :)

[Crake]

A JumpChain patron provides abilities I don't recall ever seeing any D&D deity provide - up to and including an Oldwalker Planeswalker spark. (The pursuit of which provides the main impetus for jumpers to play along with the whole thing.) If you know of a way for epic feats, spells, class or race abilities to accomplish that... I'd actually be interested to read how to manage it. :)

What exactly does that do? There's probably a way to do it honestly

edit: Found this description on some wiki


Before the Mending, those with an activated planeswalker's spark had additional powers; they were almost immortal, invulnerable, granted vast magical power, and could shapeshift. While this power could lie within anyone, it was usually undetectable except by another planeswalker.

If that's what you're talking about, yeah, definitely doable via 3.5 epic magic

[DataPacRat]

What exactly does that do? There's probably a way to do it honestly

edit: Found this description on some wiki



If that's what you're talking about, yeah, definitely doable via 3.5 epic magic

Those are the /additional/ powers, outside the main ones; which focused on travelling through the 'Blind Eternities' to new universes, and expanded into toying with time in whatever paradoxical way they cared, creating new planes, creating people of defined qualities (including having souls) from scratch; and manipulating large-scale mana to power greater-than-nuke-level spells and artifacts, such as the aptly-named Worldslayer (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=227302) with a couple of hours of prep.

A careful JumpChain participant could pass their final test in under a century, and gain those levels of power, without even violating any significant moral codes; less than half that, if they already knew various tricks about certain stories' secrets. I don't know of any way someone starting at 1st level could acquire the sheer versatility and powerlevel of an Oldwalker in a similar length of time.

But I'll mention again, if anyone here can describe how to go about that task, I'd be happy to read about the method. If not, I'm still interested in ways a JumpChainer could leverage 3.5e-available spells and abilities to help them in their subsequent jumps. (Especially abilities that are unlikely to be as easily acquirable in other magic-heavy jumps, such as ones based on Marvel, DC, Discworld. or the World of Darkness.)

[Crake]

Those are the /additional/ powers, outside the main ones; which focused on travelling through the 'Blind Eternities' to new universes, and expanded into toying with time in whatever paradoxical way they cared, creating new planes, creating people of defined qualities (including having souls) from scratch; and manipulating large-scale mana to power greater-than-nuke-level spells and artifacts, such as the aptly-named Worldslayer (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=227302) with a couple of hours of prep.

A careful JumpChain participant could pass their final test in under a century, and gain those levels of power, without even violating any significant moral codes; less than half that, if they already knew various tricks about certain stories' secrets. I don't know of any way someone starting at 1st level could acquire the sheer versatility and powerlevel of an Oldwalker in a similar length of time.

But I'll mention again, if anyone here can describe how to go about that task, I'd be happy to read about the method. If not, I'm still interested in ways a JumpChainer could leverage 3.5e-available spells and abilities to help them in their subsequent jumps. (Especially abilities that are unlikely to be as easily acquirable in other magic-heavy jumps, such as ones based on Marvel, DC, Discworld. or the World of Darkness.)

Traveling to different universes: Doable at level 9-13 via planeshift (can get you to different dimensions as well as planes, and has been explicitly been used to go to different realities/universes)

Traveling through time: Teleport through time spell, doable at level 17

Creating new planes: Genesis spell, check

Creating people with souls: This can be done via a variety of ways, but awaken construct into incarnate construct can create living humanoids with souls.

[DataPacRat]

Traveling to different universes: Doable at level 9-13 via planeshift (can get you to different dimensions as well as planes, and has been explicitly been used to go to different realities/universes)

Traveling through time: Teleport through time spell, doable at level 17

Creating new planes: Genesis spell, check

Creating people with souls: This can be done via a variety of ways, but awaken construct into incarnate construct can create living humanoids with souls.

I think it's safe to say that when authours try to come up with ideas about what extremely powerful magic-people can do, they end up drawing from the same general concepts, resulting in similarly-described abilities.

That said, the particular individual I'm thinking about isn't facing a choice of being born in a 3.5e universe and gaining wizardry or being born with a Planeswalker spark and trying not to get eaten by Eldrazi. His choice, as presented by his patron, is to either jump to a 3.5 universe or some other universe. If he does jump to a 3.5 universe, if he dies or otherwise fails, he won't get to stay in 3.5. If he survives at least a decade (possibly more, depending on complicated details), then he'll have the opportunity to bid farewell to his patron and stay in 3.5 instead of continuing the JumpChain challenge. One detail that seems likely to nudge him towards continuing to Jump is that he'll retain whatever abilities he gained in 3.5 - including the ability to continue to level-up; as well as gain additional knowledge, power, companions, and tech, such as by going to WH40k, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, Eclipse Phase, Babylon 5, Star Trek, Star Wars, or a whole host of other potential jumps. Put another way, he could either be just a wizard - or a wizard /and/ a telepath /and/ a Jedi /and/ gain hard-to-classify abilities like being able to shut down omnipotent being's powers long enough to punch them; with the promise of gaining a specific set of powers he can use to ensure his values have retroactively been fulfilled. Put yet another way, he expects that if he sticks with the jump, he'll eventually be able to look at multiverse-clusters like 3.5's Great Wheel of outer planes, and if he dislikes some aspect, change the whole system. The rules of 3.5 D&D that he's aware of offer much less ability to manipulate reality on such a large scale; for example, all the Genesis spell lets him do is create/expand one small plane at a time. He may be wrong, but with the info he has, that's the choice he thinks he's looking at.

All of which leads back to my initial sets of questions. How Over-Powered a set of abilities can a JumpChain participant feasibly get out of 3.5e?

[GilesTheCleric]

All of which leads back to my initial sets of questions. How Over-Powered a set of abilities can a JumpChain participant feasibly get out of 3.5e?

Because the upper limits of 3.5 are arbitrarily large numbers and infinities, you'd need to find a setting with access to larger infinities than 3.5 has in order to top its power. There probably are plenty, but I suspect those are based on qualitative/ narrative abilities rather than quantitative ones. See here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?384172-3-x-TO-complete) for some examples, or you could refer to the classic pun-pun.

[unseenmage]

Becoming immortal and unkillable are pretty doable in 3.5 D&D. That said time travel and reality hopping are also very doable.

Combined with creating Simulacrums of one's self and mind reading magics it becomes quite possible to farm every connected universe for experiences, items, and knowledge.

Edit: Having done some Googling and some reading...
It occurs that Jumpchaining is setting specific.

Note that both Planescape and Spelljammer cannonically connect virtually all of the D&D campaign settings. Theoretically the Plane of Shadow connects ALL worlds.

Narratively I would focus there or on the Lucid Dreaming skill and using the Dreamheart.


As for cheese, resetting magic traps or Spellclocks are going to be your bread and butter.

Also, if you have all of the item crafting feats you have the Create Portal feat. Making magic portals will be less adventurous than Spelljamming but will yield more long term benefits.

[Darrin]

Outside of "Just be Pun-Pun" and "Why do you even need *rules* at this point?", this is as far down the Tier Zero hole as I've managed to go:

Black Sparrow (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21197986&postcount=91)

Essentially, create infinite copies of yourself with 89th-level Sorcerer casting. This should make "chainfail" meaningless, as you have a nigh-infinite number of replacements that didn't die or can timewarp to the moment just before death and prevent it or whatever.

I didn't do this in the build, but with 89th level Sorcerer casting, you might be able to bolt-on enough psionic abilities to get the Save Game Trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?177889-Brainstorm-for-Psionic-Tricks-Tactics-and-Combos-Handbook) up and running. If so, then you can add a big "Reset the Universe" button to your repertoire.