Warblades battle aptitude

[Rigdraf]

Easy question, what feats does warblades battle aptitude apply to? Would it apply to unorthodox flurry?

[Venger]

It applies to feats that require x number of fighter levels. you can also change weapon-specific feats to other weapons.

no, you can't use it for unorthodox flurry.

[daremetoidareyo]

Weapon Aptitude (Ex): Your training with a wide range of weaponry and tactics gives you great skill with particular weapons. You qualify for feats that usually require a minimum number of fighter levels (such as Weapon Specialization) as if you had a fighter level equal to your warblade level –2. For example, as a 6th-level warblade, you could take Weapon Specialization, since you’re treated as being a 4th-level fighter for this purpose. These effective fighter levels stack with any actual fighter levels you have. Thus, a fighter 2/warblade 4 would also qualify for Weapon Specialization.

You also have the flexibility to adjust your weapon training.

Each morning, you can spend 1 hour in weapon practice to change the designated weapon for any feat you have that applies only to a single weapon (such as Weapon Focus). You must have the newly designated weapon available during your practice session to make this change. For example, if you wish to change the designated weapon for your Weapon Focus feat from greatsword to longsword, you must have a longsword available to practice with during your practice session. You can adjust any number of your feats in this way, and you don’t have to adjust them all in the same way. However, you can’t change the weapon choices in such a way that you no longer meet the prerequisite for some other feat you possess. For instance, if you have both Weapon Focus (longsword) and Weapon Specialization (longsword), you can’t change the designated weapon for Weapon Focus unless you also change the weapon for Weapon Specialization in the same way.

Unorthodox flurry appears to fit the bolded assertions. I say it works with unorthodox flurry.

[Crake]

Unorthodox flurry appears to fit the bolded assertions. I say it works with unorthodox flurry.

Unorthodox flurry doesn't designate a weapon though, it's a set weapon, no choices made.

[StriderITP]

Unorthodox flurry doesn't designate a weapon though, it's a set weapon, no choices made.

Unorthodox Flurry says to choose a light weapon. That sounds like it'd qualify, doesn't it?

[daremetoidareyo]

Unorthodox flurry doesn't designate a weapon though, it's a set weapon, no choices made.


Choose one type of weapon, such as greataxe. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for purposes of this feat. You are especially good at using this weapon. (If you have chosen ray, you are especially good with rays, such as the one produced by the ray of frost spell.) You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon.

Weapon focus is expressly allowed and has the same provision of choice as unorthodox flurry. Why the double standard?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Unorthodox Flurry should apply, but things like Whirling Steel Strike should not. The latter is weapon-specific (in a sense), but you don't get to choose the weapon it's specific to.

[daremetoidareyo]

Unorthodox Flurry should apply, but things like Whirling Steel Strike should not. The latter is weapon-specific (in a sense), but you don't get to choose the weapon it's specific to.

I don't understand your reasoning on this one. Whirling steel strike is a feat that applies to a single weapon. RAW, weapon aptitude doesn't designate feats that give you a choice of weapons, any feat that applies to a single weapon should work with it.

With weapon aptitude I see a lot of rules as intended advice on this board. And some of the more exotic feats to pair with it tend to get pilloried as illegitimate choices. It's probably because of boomerang daze and Boomerang ricochet and lightning maces being so cheesy to pair with it. I think this is probably because warblade is so powerful at lower levels and having a level 1 class ability that allows you the benefit of a multitude of feats is really powerful. I think that that concern is better when expressed explicitly rather than adding implications that aren't there to rules text . The text allows any feat that has a single designated weapon.

[EndocrineBandit]

I think boomerang daze, lightning maces, and the ilk of cheese is used with the aptitude weapon enchantment, not the weapon aptitude class feature. Both in the same book.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I don't understand your reasoning on this one. Whirling steel strike is a feat that applies to a single weapon. RAW, weapon aptitude doesn't designate feats that give you a choice of weapons, any feat that applies to a single weapon should work with it.
The reasoning is that Whirling Steel Strike does not apply to a designated weapon. It simply grants a benefit, without the selection of a specific weapon. It is "weapon-specific", but not in the sense of the Weapon Aptitude ability, although it works with an aptitude weapon.

Compare the text of Weapon Aptitude and the aptitude property:

Each morning, you can spend 1 hour in weapon practice to change the designated weapon for any feat you have that applies only to a single weapon [...]
You can change the designated weapon, clearly. What is a designated weapon? It is not a game term that I know of. It's not in the glossary somewhere. So, we revert to basic human English, which as we all know is invariable, immutable, and entirely consistent.

If a designated weapon is simply any specific weapon mentioned in the feat, Weapon Aptitude works as an aptitude weapon (see below). However, to me, that is not the most natural interpretation. I would say that you wouldn't designate a weapon if it wasn't contrasted with other possibilities. That is, if there is only one option, there is no choice, and you don't have to bother to also designate it. In that sense, I would say that Whirling Steel Strike has no "designated weapon".

Of course, this is a bit of interpretation that's highly variable between different speakers of English. Other nuances of 'designate' exist, are valid, can be used, etcetera. You can't realistically provide a single correct interpretation, only a set of possible interpretations, so here's mine, for what it's worth.


A wielder who has feats that affect the use of a particular type of weapon [...] can apply the benefits of those feats to any weapon that has the aptitude quality
Regardless of how I read Weapon Aptitude, this one clearly works; it is much broader. Any feat that affects a 'particular type' of weapon, whether designated or intrinsically, will work with an aptitude weapon. Hell, it could be a gunpowder feat that allows you to fire two shells with one shot, and it would work with whips, whatever that means.

[daremetoidareyo]

The reasoning is that Whirling Steel Strike does not apply to a designated weapon. It simply grants a benefit, without the selection of a specific weapon. It is "weapon-specific", but not in the sense of the Weapon Aptitude ability, although it works with an aptitude weapon.

Compare the text of Weapon Aptitude and the aptitude property:

You can change the designated weapon, clearly. What is a designated weapon? It is not a game term that I know of. It's not in the glossary somewhere. So, we revert to basic human English, which as we all know is invariable, immutable, and entirely consistent.

If a designated weapon is simply any specific weapon mentioned in the feat, Weapon Aptitude works as an aptitude weapon (see below). However, to me, that is not the most natural interpretation. I would say that you wouldn't designate a weapon if it wasn't contrasted with other possibilities. That is, if there is only one option, there is no choice, and you don't have to bother to also designate it. In that sense, I would say that Whirling Steel Strike has no "designated weapon".

Of course, this is a bit of interpretation that's highly variable between different speakers of English. Other nuances of 'designate' exist, are valid, can be used, etcetera. You can't realistically provide a single correct interpretation, only a set of possible interpretations, so here's mine, for what it's worth.


Regardless of how I read Weapon Aptitude, this one clearly works; it is much broader. Any feat that affects a 'particular type' of weapon, whether designated or intrinsically, will work with an aptitude weapon. Hell, it could be a gunpowder feat that allows you to fire two shells with one shot, and it would work with whips, whatever that means.

I still disagree on the interpretation of the term "designated", but thank you for typing that all out. I now understand your perspective and see how your interpretation is totally valid.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I still disagree on the interpretation of the term "designated", but thank you for typing that all out. I now understand your perspective and see how your interpretation is totally valid.
:thumbup: That's all we need to agree on.

[DarkSoul]

The way I read Weapon Aptitude is to allow you to change the choice you made for any feat that allowed or required you to choose a weapon. Whirling Steel Strike wouldn't qualify, but Unorthodox Flurry would.

Basically, I would rule the same way as ExLibrisMortis, but I also think that my interpretation has a healthy dose of RAI in it. Daremetoidareyo's got a good point because strictly by the RAW, Whirling Steel Strike is a feat that only applies to a single weapon, and that's what Weapon Aptitude cares about; the fact that you didn't actually make the choice of weapon is irrelevant. No, it's not the most "natural" interpretation, but that's usually the problem with RAW.

TL;DR: Ask your DM.

[Crake]

Weapon focus is expressly allowed and has the same provision of choice as unorthodox flurry. Why the double standard?

Right, my bad, I was thinking of a different feat, battle aptitude should work fine with unorthodox flurry.