Assassin's Creed Characters in 5e (MFoV)

[GandalfTheWhite]

So last night Middle Finger of Vecna posted a Roguish Archetype called The Brotherhood based on the assassins from Assassin's Creed. I'll link it at the bottom of the post.

My question is this though: to build a member of the Brotherhood in 5e is it better to use the archetype created by MFoV, some other roguish Archetype, or might the assassins not even be rogues, but a Paladin Oath? The Oath of the Brotherhood, so to speak. I mean the Creed very much makes me think of a Paladin Oath, but that raises another question: is every order that swears an oath an order of Paladins? Or can you have an Oath-swearing order in D&D without detracting from the Paladins?

http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2017/09/the-brotherhood.html?m=1

[Requiemforlust]

Personally I'm just disappointed that MFoV's Archetype doesn't allow you to stop time and cast speak with dead immediately after killing your target.

As to your questions, I think that the assassins are definitely primary Rogues. If you're going PHB-only, I think they're actually Oath of Vengeance 3/Thief X.

If homebrew is allowed, then this is actually probably the best mechanical representation of them that you can achieve in a single-classed character. I actually much prefer this Brotherhood archetype to the PHB Assassin. So well done to the team at MFoV; y'all can pat yourselves on the back.

To any of the team at MFoV who might read this: between this and the Street Fighter monk y'all made, I think you guys should do a Video Game Archetypes book. Fighter or Paladin should definitely be based on Dark Souls.

[DarkKnightJin]

It looks pretty damn cool. Way better than the PHB Assassin, imo.

I'd have no direct glaring issues with allowing their Assassin at my table.
No auto crit? Who cares, that thing's a pain to set up anyway. I might retain the Advantage if they go before an enemy. It allows them a single Sneak Attack before the party had a chance to do anything or get in range to allow the SA.

[jaappleton]

Personally I'm just disappointed that MFoV's Archetype doesn't allow you to stop time and cast speak with dead immediately after killing your target.

This legitimately made me laugh out loud.

Bravo! :smallbiggrin:

[jaappleton]

I like it for a few reasons.

It's straightforward. Nothing finnicky. It works. And it absolutely captures the spirit of the thing.

[Haldir]

The 14th and 17th level abilities are a little meh. By 14th level there's usually some form of flight and a 17th level ability that is a little less powerful than a Cantrip (GFB) isn't thrilling. That said, I'd allow it at my table, though I'd probably want to work with the player to rewrite those latter abilities into something cooler. Just off the top of my head? This needs proficiency in creating bombs and the like, and allowing you to use them as a bonus action.

[DracoKnight]

I like it for a few reasons.

It's straightforward. Nothing finnicky. It works. And it absolutely captures the spirit of the thing.

Why, thank you *bows* :smallbiggrin:
I really hate how finicky the PHB assassin is.

[DracoKnight]

The 14th and 17th level abilities are a little meh. By 14th level there's usually some form of flight and a 17th level ability that is a little less powerful than a Cantrip (GFB) isn't thrilling. That said, I'd allow it at my table, though I'd probably want to work with the player to rewrite those latter abilities into something cooler. Just off the top of my head? This needs proficiency in creating bombs and the like, and allowing you to use them as a bonus action.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but:

13th allows you to use Death From Above without taking the falling damage yourself.

17th allows you to basically deal full Sneak Attack to two targets, if you use Death From Above. (5d6 per target from Sneak Attack, and 1d6 per 10 feet fallen per target, to a maximum of 5d6).

That's on par with the Thief's capstone, IMO, although Leap of Faith isn't as sexy as Use Magic Device, I will admit.

EDIT: as to your point about bombs, they would have been a neat trick to include, but I only had 4 features to work with and the mechanical focus was already in place. Maybe pick up an alchemist's kit/let players make bombs if they have one?

[GandalfTheWhite]

Personally I'm just disappointed that MFoV's Archetype doesn't allow you to stop time and cast speak with dead immediately after killing your target.

This legitimately made me laugh out loud.

Bravo! :smallbiggrin:

He also forgot to write "Counter:" when you Ready an attack with the trigger that it happens right before another creature attacks you, your attack instantly kills them. You are not limited to one attack with this reaction, you can make a number of counterattacks equal to your Deterity modifier.

The true way to play an Assassin in Combat.


This needs proficiency in creating bombs and the like, and allowing you to use them as a bonus action.

To be fair, though, if this is supposed to represent the Assassins through the ages, it wasn't really until Ezio that the Brotherhood started using smoke bombs. And the order was started in ancient Egypt, so there's thousands of years where they didn't use bombs.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I think you guys should do a Video Game Archetypes book.

Heh, we do draw a lot of Inspiration from video games... We might not even have to write any new material for such a book.

Let's see, we have...

Body Snatcher - Darkest Dungeon
Brother of Sunlight - Dark Souls
The Brotherhood - Assassin's Creed
Chrono Hoper - Overwatch
College of Dracolexi (in Draconis Fundamentum) - Skyrim
The Enhanced - Megaman
Fragrant Magic (in Complete Witch) - Shadow Hearts: Covenant
Lady Luck - Final Fantasy X-2
Sanctified Hunter - Castlevania
The Shadow - Dishonoured
Shovel Knight - Shovel Knight
Veiled Conclave - Final Fantasy Tactics
Way of Street Fighting - Street Fighter
Way of the Wheel - Dungeon Keeper
Wealth Domain - Recettear

And probably loads of others that I've missed. Sometimes I'll be inspired by a video game but end up with something that's generic enough to stand on its own without calling attention to the reference. Therefore there are probably some like that by the other digits, where I'm not aware of the original Inspiration.

[DarkKnightJin]

Nails, might I extend my congratulations to you and the other digits for the War Mage class?

I got the Complete version, and I must say.. I've had a blast just crafting a character sheet for one. And that was just a Pawn!
Of course, I did try to go for a little breakage, but I stayed within the confines of the PDF. Quite fun how I saw Pawn, their Trick options, and went from there.
It helps that I LOVE the tanky Magic Knight type character, so a Pawn in Heavy Armor is right up my alley.

I know, kinda derailed. Just wanted to extend my gratitude to all your fine work.

I'm also being allowed use of the Oath of the Wyrm/Dragon Knight in our current game. I'm curious to see where it goes.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Nails, might I extend my congratulations to you and the other digits for the War Mage class?

Oh, thank you. Though to be honest I didn't have anything to do with the Warmage class myself. That's mostly the Palm's work, I believe.

[Spiderguy24]

I gotta say. As a huge fan of Assassins Creed, this is pretty awesome. I could totally see an Ezio build with 13 levels into this, and 7 into Battlemaster, kicking so much ass. :D Although I do agree that it sucks that there is no ability that stops time and uses speak with dead on a fallen foe, but that might be pushing it in terms of balance.

[DracoKnight]

I gotta say. As a huge fan of Assassins Creed, this is pretty awesome. I could totally see an Ezio build with 13 levels into this, and 7 into Battlemaster, kicking so much ass. :D Although I do agree that it sucks that there is no ability that stops time and uses speak with dead on a fallen foe, but that might be pushing it in terms of balance.

Oddly enough, that's actually the split I also envisioned for Ezio!

I see Altaïr as having Brotherhood 17/Oath of Devotion 3; Connor is Hunter 7/Brotherhood 13...Edward...probably Battlemaster 3/Brotherhood 17.

[Spiderguy24]

Oddly enough, that's actually the split I also envisioned for Ezio!

I see Altaïr as having Brotherhood 17/Oath of Devotion 3; Connor is Hunter 7/Brotherhood 13...Edward...probably Battlemaster 3/Brotherhood 17.

I have to disagree with Altair and the Oath of Devotion. He was quite a **** in the first game, even going so far as to break the three tenants at the very beginning before learning his lesson.

[Submortimer]

Nails, might I extend my congratulations to you and the other digits for the War Mage class?

I got the Complete version, and I must say.. I've had a blast just crafting a character sheet for one. And that was just a Pawn!
Of course, I did try to go for a little breakage, but I stayed within the confines of the PDF. Quite fun how I saw Pawn, their Trick options, and went from there.
It helps that I LOVE the tanky Magic Knight type character, so a Pawn in Heavy Armor is right up my alley.

I know, kinda derailed. Just wanted to extend my gratitude to all your fine work.

I'm also being allowed use of the Oath of the Wyrm/Dragon Knight in our current game. I'm curious to see where it goes.


Man, I'm SUPER happy someone besides me is actually using my class :-)

I'm glad you like it! The only other Pawn I have built so far is one for another player. She played a sort of combination of D.Va and Reinhardt, being a fairly small elf girl in a huge suit of magic power armor (magical full plate), who hit people with her Rocket Hammer (booming blade with a maul)

[Submortimer]

Oddly enough, that's actually the split I also envisioned for Ezio!

I see Altaïr as having Brotherhood 17/Oath of Devotion 3; Connor is Hunter 7/Brotherhood 13...Edward...probably Battlemaster 3/Brotherhood 17.


Edward has to have enough levels in fighter or ranger to at least get the Mariner fighting style. He's actually probably both, since he certainly also has the TWF style.

If it wasn't for the fact that they're both rogues, I'd say that Kenway is for sure a swashbuckler. And actually, I'd probably argue that he's got WAY fewer than 17 levels in Brotherhood rogue; after all, he wasn't raised as an assassin.

[Arkhios]

I have to disagree with Altair and the Oath of Devotion. He was quite a **** in the first game, even going so far as to break the three tenants at the very beginning before learning his lesson.

Who are these three tenants he so brutally breaks? (Sorry about my wry sense of humor, but seriously: tenet ≠ tenant)

[DarkKnightJin]

Man, I'm SUPER happy someone besides me is actually using my class :-)

I'm glad you like it! The only other Pawn I have built so far is one for another player. She played a sort of combination of D.Va and Reinhardt, being a fairly small elf girl in a huge suit of magic power armor (magical full plate), who hit people with her Rocket Hammer (booming blade with a maul)

I envisioned mine as not needing a dedicated melee weapon. He just uses Mystical Blade as his primary melee damage source, and Chill Touch or Fire Bolt or Ray of Frost for ranged damage.

I also had an idea of turning him into a light(heavy?) McCree, using a pistol shaped wand for a focus, and unleashing Trick enhanced Cantrips at as many enemies as he can hit every round.

[jaappleton]

who are these three tenants he so brutally breaks? (sorry about my wry sense of humor, but seriously: Tenet ≠ tenant)

they broke david tennant three times?!

[DracoKnight]

they broke david tennant three times?!

Those bastards!

*rewatches Jessica Jones*

....Maybe he had it coming.

[DarkKnightJin]

Those bastards!

*rewatches Jessica Jones*

....Maybe he had it coming.

Knuckle, while you're here.. I hope you're alright with me yoinking that weapon expansion and showing it to the DM of the game I'm currently in, as inspiration for some loot weapons?
They seem a bit powerful to start out with, but I think they make for great loot items. Or maybe something to pick up in town after the first quest/dungeon/lootfest.

[Sicarius Victis]

That's on par with the Thief's capstone, IMO, although Leap of Faith isn't as sexy as Use Magic Device, I will admit.

It ought to be mentioned, though, that the Thief's capstone does not require perfect positioning combined with two other subclass features to achieve that ability.

Seriously, how often is a character going to get Death From Above when they have an entire party to work with that makes it a lot harder to make everything perfect? It's the main complaint about the PHB Assassin, but often even worse.

No offense meant here, you people do some great work, but Assassin's Creed-based characters have some inherent flaws to work with straight from the start. Teamwork is far from the least among them.

[DracoKnight]

It ought to be mentioned, though, that the Thief's capstone does not require perfect positioning combined with two other subclass features to achieve that ability.

Seriously, how often is a character going to get Death From Above when they have an entire party to work with that makes it a lot harder to make everything perfect? It's the main complaint about the PHB Assassin, but often even worse.

No offense meant here, you people do some great work, but Assassin's Creed-based characters have some inherent flaws to work with straight from the start. Teamwork is far from the least among them.

Your concern is valid. I have a player getting ready to play one of these soon, for playtest, and I'll keep an eye on how well/poorly the Archetype plays with others.

[DracoKnight]

Knuckle, while you're here.. I hope you're alright with me yoinking that weapon expansion and showing it to the DM of the game I'm currently in, as inspiration for some loot weapons?
They seem a bit powerful to start out with, but I think they make for great loot items. Or maybe something to pick up in town after the first quest/dungeon/lootfest.

Absolutely! That's why I've got it in my sig :smallsmile: