Lore Bard potential multi-class help? Is 3 levels of sorcerer needed?

[sage20500]

Hey guys, I'm currently playing a level 2 drow bard in an Adventurers league, and so far I've been having a blast with her. I was wondering though, is straight 20 lore bard good for me, or should I consider taking a 3 level dip in sorcerer at some point very soon? The only reason I was looking into it was after seeing the subtle meta-magic; I was thinking that it would make for some great flavor in the idea of playing the bard that is both good at enchanting those she wishes to talk to, while ruining the lives of those that earn her ire. What are peoples thoughts on taking a 3 level dip of Sorc to just pick up subtle/if its a good idea around when should I consider having her take such a dip?

[Sans.]

Take a few more levels of Bard first. Level 5 is good in every class, and in addition Lore Bard's level 6 feature is very powerful.

[Marvnmartian]

Depends on if you are planning on bringing this character to 20 if so I wouldn't advise dipping anymore than 2 because of their last magical secrets which is very nice.

as was said above dont dip before level 6 and if you do dip the usual options are Knowledge cleric 1 for more skills. (personally I would have started as a cleric 1 then went 19 lore bard)

for damage go 2 levels of warlock picking up agonizing blast and whichever other invocations to make your eldritch blast that much better because having a EB in your pocket for those situations in which you need just some damage to down a guy its a good choice

for healing go life cleric 1 for the extra to healing as well as I would use one of your magical secrets for the 20d6+50 out of combat healing for a level 3 spell and if you want to throw on some extra cheese get goodberry as well for 40 points of healing + nourishment for a level 1 spell goodberry is more economical in your out of combat healing + its a really good thing to use flavor wise see a beggar on the street toss a berry to each for food for the day, have a ritual where you give 10 a berry a day and give them small tasks to do for their free meal that fills them up for the entire day.

Goodberry cheese is fun to make a ton of berrys right before your long rest (say your in a tiny hut/any safe pocket dimension) spend all of your spell slots that are left over into berrys and have them ready for your next short rest during the next day since they last for 24 hours had in one campaign a life cleric 1 druid rest and life cleric 1 bard rest do this trick at like 11th level and safe to say the 80 berries that were made which is 360 points of healing made that particular dungeon a fun one.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

At level 6 a Lore Bard gets to choose any two spells he/she wants.

So IMO you gotta plan on something pretty impressive for a dip to be worth it.

Its a good number of sessions between level 6 and level 8. Or between level 6 and a 2 levels of Warlock.

Compare the list of features you would gain by taking each path as they'll take the same amount of time.

Personally I might take a dip in Warlock myself. It would fit with a bit of RP we have done and would give the DM a bit of an ability to "turn the party's screws" positively or negatively with my...sponsor.

[sithlordnergal]

Honestly, I would just take a 1 level dip into Sorcerer for the Cantrips, Shield, Magic Missile or Chromatic Orb, and the Sorcerer Sub-class. Personally, I'd take Fire Bolt, Chill Touch, and either Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade for three of your cantrips, and whatever you like for the final one. Fire Bolt and Chill Touch give you some great ranged options, while Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade will help you if anything gets close enough to melee you.

As for the 1st level spells, Shield is always important to have since it boosts your AC by 5 if you get hit, and you keep that boost till your next turn. Magic Missile is nice if you want to deal some reliable force damage that can be split among multiple targets, and has an excellent 120ft range. However, you're only dealing 1d4+1 with it, so it isn't a heavy hitter. Chromatic Orb on the other hand deals more damage, and you can choose one of 6 damage types for it to be. Which means if you're fighting something with resistances or an immunity you can just switch up the damage Chromatic Orb deals to get around it. The downside here is that the damage is single target, only had 90ft range, and requires you to buy and have a 50gp gem to cast it. All in all though, you really just need to choose between flexibility or reliability.

As for sub-class...well...this is a personal opinion but I adore the Wild Magic Sorcerer. Sure there are some deadly effects on the Wild Magic table, but honestly the good effects outweigh the bad. Plus your Tides of Chaos can give you advantage on any saving throw, including Death Saves. Sooo, keep that in mind.

[Herobizkit]

AL, eh? I wouldn't get your heart set on 20. You might be lucky to get to 10th.

Normally, 6 is when people will tell you to cut, but I say if you have your heart set on Sorcerer, at least get to level 3 so you can snag your Archetype (and level 2 spells), then Sorcerer on.

Did you have a specific Sorcerer Archetype in mind?

[VisionsOfGlory]

I always found the last couple of levels in Bard underwhelming, so every time I've played a Bard I've dipped into another class early on.

I'd always suggest going to level 6 as a Lore bard, personally I always multi-classed into cleric but Sorcerer has a few advantages as stated by someone else.

[sithlordnergal]

AL, eh? I wouldn't get your heart set on 20. You might be lucky to get to 10th.

Normally, 6 is when people will tell you to cut, but I say if you have your heart set on Sorcerer, at least get to level 3 so you can snag your Archetype (and level 2 spells), then Sorcerer on.

Did you have a specific Sorcerer Archetype in mind?

Hmmm? The Sorcerer Arch-Type gets chosen at the first level of Sorcerer. You do get Metamagic at level 3 though, which can be worth it. However, I'm not sure if it's worth losing out on a 9th level spell from any class list you want.

[Citan]

Hi OP!

For a quick answer to your question, no, 3 levels (or even 1) of Sorcerer are "needed". Bard is very fine as is, and you usually gain more by staying single-class since you get new toys earlier.

So let's turn the question differently.
1. Are you enough interested in Subtle metamagic to plan on using it as often as possible?
2. Do you expect your character to be "grounded" with the end of your current campaign, end which would be around level 10 or so?

If 1&2 are a "yes", then go up to Bard 3 and then immediately take your levels in Sorcerer. You will really feel the "2nd level spellcasting ceiling", but on another hand, it also means you won't hesitate to upcast great spells or convert some to fuel your Metamagic.

If 1=yes and 2=no, it's up to you: either multiclass now, or first push up to Bard 5-6 (which would be my advice) because 3rd level spells are already another scale of effect compared to 2nd (many more are "large-scale"). AND getting Bardic Inspiration / Cutting Words refreshed on a short rest at level 5 is another great boost.
Or just take an early lvl 1 dip in Draconic Sorcerer if you have great DEX (this can help survive the early levels) before going Bard 5 then whatever.

If 1=no but 2=yes, definitely take your time: push Bard up to 6, then ask yourself if you are still interested enough in Subtle Metamagic.

If 1&2 are a "no", then just don't multiclass until you are at least Bard 11, or never multiclass. ;)

[sage20500]

Hi OP!

For a quick answer to your question, no, 3 levels (or even 1) of Sorcerer are "needed". Bard is very fine as is, and you usually gain more by staying single-class since you get new toys earlier.

So let's turn the question differently.
1. Are you enough interested in Subtle metamagic to plan on using it as often as possible?
2. Do you expect your character to be "grounded" with the end of your current campaign, end which would be around level 10 or so?

If 1&2 are a "yes", then go up to Bard 3 and then immediately take your levels in Sorcerer. You will really feel the "2nd level spellcasting ceiling", but on another hand, it also means you won't hesitate to upcast great spells or convert some to fuel your Metamagic.

If 1=yes and 2=no, it's up to you: either multiclass now, or first push up to Bard 5-6 (which would be my advice) because 3rd level spells are already another scale of effect compared to 2nd (many more are "large-scale"). AND getting Bardic Inspiration / Cutting Words refreshed on a short rest at level 5 is another great boost.
Or just take an early lvl 1 dip in Draconic Sorcerer if you have great DEX (this can help survive the early levels) before going Bard 5 then whatever.

If 1=no but 2=yes, definitely take your time: push Bard up to 6, then ask yourself if you are still interested enough in Subtle Metamagic.

If 1&2 are a "no", then just don't multiclass until you are at least Bard 11, or never multiclass. ;)

The community at my adventurers league store is actually pretty lively, I do think I'd be able to play the character all the way up to 20 since they currently now are running an epic game around 2-3 times a month. My main wanting for subtle has mostly been because the dm's I've played under so far have been actively paying attention to things like verbal and somatic components with spells for times where they have had munchkins try to exploit situations without actually reading what they're spells do. A good example would be probably my 2nd game I played, we were playing through Embers in Elmwood and the party was in the city of Mulmaster, and the wizard in our group thought it would be a bright idea to try and cast a charm spell on the leading guard of a group of Hawks (templars who are supposed to arrest people that cast magic without being sanctioned by the government) in front of the entire group of Hawks. Even if the lieutenant had failed his saving through (DM rolled a nat 20 for the will save), the wizard was instantly thrown to the ground and arrested because he tried casting magic in front of the entire group of guards, and it never occurred to the player just maybe npcs actually do pay attention to what players are doing.

Essentially with my drow my goal was I wanted to make a character who is seemingly mundane while using her magic to disrupt those who draw her ire while occasionally helping out her allies; I just like the idea of being able to do so without being flashy at all because both counter spelling and the general notion of "kill/disable the caster first" is something that is semi common once you get to higher levels of play. Build wise I fully intend on trying to go full out bard, I was merely looking at 3 levels of dragon sorc (free always on mage armor is kind of nice) to see if having the ability to make important spells subtle when needed (such as if I ever wanted to try and charm someone in front of others without drawing suspicion) was a good idea.

(also sorry for going through and adding some bolded text to this and original post, noticed that a few answers didn't see the specific thing I was asking about so I figured I should try to clarify that I was asking for specific advice on a build idea, and not asking for general advice on multi classing itself.)

[Citan]

Essentially with my drow my goal was I wanted to make a character who is seemingly mundane while using her magic to disrupt those who draw her ire while occasionally helping out her allies; I just like the idea of being able to do so without being flashy at all because both counter spelling and the general notion of "kill/disable the caster first" is something that is semi common once you get to higher levels of play. Build wise I fully intend on trying to go full out bard, I was merely looking at 3 levels of dragon sorc (free always on mage armor is kind of nice) to see if having the ability to make important spells subtle when needed (such as if I ever wanted to try and charm someone in front of others without drawing suspicion) was a good idea.

Well yes it's always a good idea actually. People tend to really underestimate how Subtle allows you to pull out jokers in nasty situations. Or just create diversion/confusion with a smile.* :)

So then to resolve the equation "full Bard + 3 levels of Sorc = my character" XD, I suggest you find your own answer to the following.
- How soon do I want to play with Subtle?
- Which are the spells I definitely cannot wait for?

If there are no spells that you find really essential to your fun, and you feel Subtle would be immediately useful, start after Bard 3. If "it can wait", Bard 5-6 first (if you are the only caster in the group, Counterspell from Magic Secrets is mandatory imo).
If however there are spells that you really want to have just to try them or because you love using them, then multiclass only after you got them. ;)

* Don't forget though that NPC are (normally) not stupid. If everything was clear and calm in a place and, 2mn after you arrived (or you are the only "stranger" in the place) there are strange behaviours (Suggestion) or a big boom erupting somewhere (Shatter), even with your best smile on the face and perfect immobility, you will still be the prime suspect. ^^