Spheres of Power: Protection Handbook Open Beta

[A.J.Gibson]

With other things finally out of the way, the Protection handbook (along with Conjuration and Fate) has made it into playtest:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dsup9yABZEx4p8_SSWSCcVzKoZtaYLmmHSQ1MUG86iU/edit?usp=sharing

Comments are welcome. Conjuration and Fate are also in playtest and will probably be published first (after Life and Creation).

[AlienFromBeyond]

I know not technically on topic, but you did bring them up yourself, will we be getting public links to the Fate and Conjuration playtests as well since those are planned to come out sooner?

More on topic, some interesting stuff in Protection you've got there. I think it's possible to make a very solid Armorist now!

[digiman619]

My thoughts as I read this:
* Glad that Protection is getting a go. So that just means that Conjuration, Death, Fate, Illusion, Warp, and Weather are left, right?
* I like the Cleric archetype that makes them focused casters. While I understand that the Cleric and Druid archetypes were trying to be as straight a translation but Mid BAB + High caster + more talents than anyone other than an Incanter/Sphere Wizard was really broken.
* Spontaneous Action is good for getting rid of specific conditions that often aren't worth spending a talent in (restore Mind, Protected Health, etc.)
* Does Divine Works replace anything? Or are they there to get rid of dead levels?
* I like the idea of the Impossible Warrior, though in a way, it seems wrong that it's in a SoP book because it's the antithesis of a magic system. Cool, though.
* The Living Weapon is the first time I've seen a Low caster act as a high-caster in a particular field. Protection is a safe one to do it. Alteration would be a bit trickier.
* Ooh. We're getting a Mageknight archetype that gives it both Spherecasting and Spheremartial-ing. I approve.
* God mode is a weird name for a class feature, especially one you get from level 1. It's basically a Brawler's Martial Flexibility, but rather than feats, it's self-only buff from Enhancement, Fate, or Protection. Makes good thematic and mechanic and a more-or-less fair trade. Also, any reason it's three abilities rather than one scaling one? Or is it just because that's what the original had?
* I think the Hunter Armor trick should be written as a replacement rather than a errata note. Something like:
Hunter (Requires Armorist 15)
Add bane (+1) to the special qualities you may add to your weapons and the defiant (+1) and vilification (+1) to the special qualities you may add to armor and shields. When summoning equipment, you may spend an additional spell point to add one of these qualities to a piece of summoned equipment
Note: This version supersedes the version printed in the base Spheres of Power book.
* Does a Hedgewitch with the Exorcist tradition you get all the sanctions at level 1?
* Master of Mysteries is a neat concept. You need to define if its upgrades are going off of class level or character level; it isn't clear.
* I'm pretty sure that the plural of aegis is aegii.
* Glyphs are just begging to be made into Explosive Runes.
* Plexing Aegis us a neat precaution that lets you retroactively prepare for badness. I like.
* And yep, glyphs get to be Explosive Runes or other shenanigans with an advanced talent. Not surprised
* Would the new sphere effect from Harmoniousness count as being from both spheres and goodies from both spheres apply (i.e., would a Living Weapon using a ward/darkness effect use his class level as caster level?)
* Any reason the feat that gives you extra divine works isn't called Extra Divine Work?
* Defender of the Faith joins Green Neophyte and Conscious Cultist as CL boosting traits. Can't help but notice they're all faith traits so you can't get more than one.
* Any reason you called the "@#$% you, Gunslingers!" armor quality Anti-Ballistic rather than the more colloquial Bulletproof?

All in all, a lot of cool stuff that I will definitely use. Keep up the good work!

[GreatGoatEater]

Minor thing, but is there any specific reason why the Exorcism Hedgewitch Tradition calls out needing what are essentially Verbal and Somatic components(Free hand and spoken voice) when spheres tries to be relatively fluff agnostic in that regard?


Living Flurry - The living weapon gains the flurry of blows class feature as an unchained monk, and gains an extra attack when he performs a full-round attack. Starting at 12th level, he may choose this trick a second time, and gain a second attack when he performs a flurry of blows.

Also is a Living Legend Armorist with the Flurry of Blows arsenal trick restricted to unarmed strikes/monk weapons like a Monk is?

[Lirya]

While some options for this already exists in the Warp Sphere, I think a ward that protects an area from teleporting and interdimensional travel would be interesting. Maybe a ward where you choose between either blocking dimensional travel into it or out from it upon casting. Or a ward that gives a warning, and then delays the arrival creatures teleporting into it by a few rounds.

[zlefin]

looks nice; one thing I always wonder about though:
why do some abilities hvae the benefits capped at level 20, while others have uncapped benefits? especially since spheres has so many ways to boost caster level above 20.

balance-wise the only thing I'm concerned about is the number of ways to provide strong AoE benefits, some of which could apply to something much larger than an adventuring party; or lert you apply benefits that normally wouldn't be able to be spread around so easily.

hmm, defender's aegis feat makes me wonder; if like 5 people each cast one aegis on each other, then you'd have an adventuring party where whenever anyone is attacked, everyone else gets an AoO on the attacker. that feels like it could get very nasty.

[A.J.Gibson]

I know not technically on topic, but you did bring them up yourself, will we be getting public links to the Fate and Conjuration playtests as well since those are planned to come out sooner?

More on topic, some interesting stuff in Protection you've got there. I think it's possible to make a very solid Armorist now!

I would assume the writers will start their own thread? It's really they're decision if they want to post their playtests like that.

[A.J.Gibson]

My thoughts as I read this:
* Glad that Protection is getting a go. So that just means that Conjuration, Death, Fate, Illusion, Warp, and Weather are left, right?
* I like the Cleric archetype that makes them focused casters. While I understand that the Cleric and Druid archetypes were trying to be as straight a translation but Mid BAB + High caster + more talents than anyone other than an Incanter/Sphere Wizard was really broken.
* Spontaneous Action is good for getting rid of specific conditions that often aren't worth spending a talent in (restore Mind, Protected Health, etc.)
* Does Divine Works replace anything? Or are they there to get rid of dead levels?
* I like the idea of the Impossible Warrior, though in a way, it seems wrong that it's in a SoP book because it's the antithesis of a magic system. Cool, though.
* The Living Weapon is the first time I've seen a Low caster act as a high-caster in a particular field. Protection is a safe one to do it. Alteration would be a bit trickier.
* Ooh. We're getting a Mageknight archetype that gives it both Spherecasting and Spheremartial-ing. I approve.
* God mode is a weird name for a class feature, especially one you get from level 1. It's basically a Brawler's Martial Flexibility, but rather than feats, it's self-only buff from Enhancement, Fate, or Protection. Makes good thematic and mechanic and a more-or-less fair trade. Also, any reason it's three abilities rather than one scaling one? Or is it just because that's what the original had?
* I think the Hunter Armor trick should be written as a replacement rather than a errata note. Something like:
Hunter (Requires Armorist 15)
Add bane (+1) to the special qualities you may add to your weapons and the defiant (+1) and vilification (+1) to the special qualities you may add to armor and shields. When summoning equipment, you may spend an additional spell point to add one of these qualities to a piece of summoned equipment
Note: This version supersedes the version printed in the base Spheres of Power book.
* Does a Hedgewitch with the Exorcist tradition you get all the sanctions at level 1?
* Master of Mysteries is a neat concept. You need to define if its upgrades are going off of class level or character level; it isn't clear.
* I'm pretty sure that the plural of aegis is aegii.
* Glyphs are just begging to be made into Explosive Runes.
* Plexing Aegis us a neat precaution that lets you retroactively prepare for badness. I like.
* And yep, glyphs get to be Explosive Runes or other shenanigans with an advanced talent. Not surprised
* Would the new sphere effect from Harmoniousness count as being from both spheres and goodies from both spheres apply (i.e., would a Living Weapon using a ward/darkness effect use his class level as caster level?)
* Any reason the feat that gives you extra divine works isn't called Extra Divine Work?
* Defender of the Faith joins Green Neophyte and Conscious Cultist as CL boosting traits. Can't help but notice they're all faith traits so you can't get more than one.
* Any reason you called the "@#$% you, Gunslingers!" armor quality Anti-Ballistic rather than the more colloquial Bulletproof?

All in all, a lot of cool stuff that I will definitely use. Keep up the good work!

Thanks for reading. Conjuration, Fate, and Protection are probably going to be published in that order. Illusion will probably be next, and maybe Death? I have no idea how Warp is coming along. My guess is Weather and Time will be last. To answer your points:
-the cleric archetype was pretty much for people who wanted a mid-caster cleric. Kinda like the low-bab druid in Life.
-Spontaneous action is good because both Life and Protection have a lot of situational abilities. I actually wrote this archetype for Life, but it got cut from there.
-the math for what replaces what is complicated: compared to the sphere cleric, they lose 5 talents, 5 caster levels, and the 5 talents from domains. In return, they gain Divine Works, Spontaneous Casting, 2 bonus talents, Class Level as Caster Level with 2 spheres, and the ability to use their CAM for Channel Energy.
-Impossible Warrior grew out of me wanting an alternative counterspelling system. Protection is the Abjuration school, which in Vancian includes counterspelling, though SoP moved it (rightly) to a general talent, but I felt it still kinda fit
-there is an armorist in Creation that gets full CL with a sphere as well
-the mageknight started as a ward specialist that had good AoO, I didn't want to develop a whole new AoO system for them, and started looking around, Guardian solved the issue nicely without having to write a bunch more stuff
-I'll probably change God Mode to something else. It's supposed to duplicate the utility of Judgment, being able to pull out any defense is okay, but not interesting enough for a whole archetype
-I'll probably tweak hunter, assuming I keep Vilification
-yes, the exorcist gets all sanctions at level 1, or rather they get one sanction that affects different creatures differently
-I'll look at Master of Mysteries
-the plural of aegis is aegises, I googled :)
-Glyphs are the 'symbol' powers of SoP, not certain if you could do explosive runes, since they would have no way to know they are being read
-plexing went through a few rewrites
-Harmonious will probably get some work on it
-'Extra Divine Work' never occurred to me...I probably should do that. Obvious, really.
-Defender of the Faith follows the pattern, yes.
-I wrote anti-ballistic after an encounter with a gunslinger TPK's our level 14 party. 200 damage per round with no change of missing, insane

I hope people find something useful in the book. Protection isn't cool the way Conjuration or even Fate is.

[A.J.Gibson]

Minor thing, but is there any specific reason why the Exorcism Hedgewitch Tradition calls out needing what are essentially Verbal and Somatic components(Free hand and spoken voice) when spheres tries to be relatively fluff agnostic in that regard?

Also is a Living Legend Armorist with the Flurry of Blows arsenal trick restricted to unarmed strikes/monk weapons like a Monk is?

Spheres is itself supposed to be fluff-agnostic, but the archetypes are not as much. In addition, most of the 'rounds per level' abilities like Rage represent something the character is doing, and have some drawback (you're singing, you're flat-footed, etc.) that represent your active role in the ability.

Living Weapon flurry of blows should work just like the monks. No flurry of two-handed swords!

[A.J.Gibson]

While some options for this already exists in the Warp Sphere, I think a ward that protects an area from teleporting and interdimensional travel would be interesting. Maybe a ward where you choose between either blocking dimensional travel into it or out from it upon casting. Or a ward that gives a warning, and then delays the arrival creatures teleporting into it by a few rounds.

I think Gravitas covers that.

[A.J.Gibson]

looks nice; one thing I always wonder about though:
why do some abilities hvae the benefits capped at level 20, while others have uncapped benefits? especially since spheres has so many ways to boost caster level above 20.

balance-wise the only thing I'm concerned about is the number of ways to provide strong AoE benefits, some of which could apply to something much larger than an adventuring party; or lert you apply benefits that normally wouldn't be able to be spread around so easily.

hmm, defender's aegis feat makes me wonder; if like 5 people each cast one aegis on each other, then you'd have an adventuring party where whenever anyone is attacked, everyone else gets an AoO on the attacker. that feels like it could get very nasty.

Class abilities are capped at 20th level, caster level scaling abilities are not, unless I goofed somewhere.

This is early days for playtesting, so some balance issues are bound to appear. I'll think about the defender's aegis thing.

[Mithril Leaf]

I have some issue with the True Protection Talent. It seems even radically more GM dependent than normal for an Advanced Talent, while also being quite powerful if you do have access to the True Names of your party.

Also Mystic Shell just seems like a straight up better version of Magic Sink (from the Enhancement Sphere), which may or may not be desired.

[zlefin]

Class abilities are capped at 20th level, caster level scaling abilities are not, unless I goofed somewhere.

This is early days for playtesting, so some balance issues are bound to appear. I'll think about the defender's aegis thing.

some caster level scaling sphere abilities cap at 20th (or imply they do). It was more of a general design question. I'm not sure if any of yours did (well, one did for sure, but it was kinda necessary because it was the thing that maxed out at 50% chance to nullify an attack iirc).

[mrguymiah]

So glad to get access to this! I just found the thread, so no feedback, yet, but I'll definitely post again once I've had a chance to look through it. :smallbiggrin:

[digiman619]

Thanks for reading. Conjuration, Fate, and Protection are probably going to be published in that order. Illusion will probably be next, and maybe Death? I have no idea how Warp is coming along. My guess is Weather and Time will be last. To answer your points:
-the cleric archetype was pretty much for people who wanted a mid-caster cleric. Kinda like the low-bab druid in Life.
Good, because I'd like to include clerics instead of just usign Soul Weavers as expies of them.

-Spontaneous action is good because both Life and Protection have a lot of situational abilities. I actually wrote this archetype for Life, but it got cut from there.
That does make sense. Glad that it found a home.

-Impossible Warrior grew out of me wanting an alternative counterspelling system. Protection is the Abjuration school, which in Vancian includes counterspelling, though SoP moved it (rightly) to a general talent, but I felt it still kinda fit
I was literally having an aruement on these boards where I said that a good idea for high-level martial would be no-selling magic. Wasn't expecting the niverse to grant me that so fast.

-there is an armorist in Creation that gets full CL with a sphere as well
Huh. Must have missed that one.

-the mageknight started as a ward specialist that had good AoO, I didn't want to develop a whole new AoO system for them, and started looking around, Guardian solved the issue nicely without having to write a bunch more stuff
Either way, you've given us a Sop/SoM acrehtype before they did.

-I'll probably change God Mode to something else. It's supposed to duplicate the utility of Judgment, being able to pull out any defense is okay, but not interesting enough for a whole archetype
It's a great thing mechanically. It's just an odd name is all.

-I'll probably tweak hunter, assuming I keep Vilification
Well, it'd be odd to update it without it...

-yes, the exorcist gets all sanctions at level 1, or rather they get one sanction that affects different creatures differently.
Good to know.

-I'll look at Master of Mysteries
I'd think it was off class level, but I figured it was best to double check.

-the plural of aegis is aegises, I googled :)
Dreamscarred Press, you've lied to me!

-Glyphs are the 'symbol' powers of SoP, not certain if you could do explosive runes, since they would have no way to know they are being read.
Couldn't they just use its Perception for that?

-Harmonious will probably get some work on it
It's a great concept, it just needs a few kinks worked out.

-'Extra Divine Work' never occurred to me...I probably should do that. Obvious, really.
That's why you do playtests; sometimes you're too close to see the trees.

-I wrote anti-ballistic after an encounter with a gunslinger TPK's our level 14 party. 200 damage per round with no change of missing, insane.
Oh, I understand. It looks like an ability I'll import to my games so Warpriests and Aegises (still feels wierd calling it that) can swap in to that as needed. Still doesn't explain why you didn't call it bulletproof, though...

[mrguymiah]

Having given the talents a once over, I rather like the idea of the succors, even if I won't use them. I especially like the Friend Aegis. That's heaven send to be able to avoid my own allies with cone destruction blasts.


I have some issue with the True Protection Talent. It seems even radically more GM dependent than normal for an Advanced Talent, while also being quite powerful if you do have access to the True Names of your party.

Also Mystic Shell just seems like a straight up better version of Magic Sink (from the Enhancement Sphere), which may or may not be desired.

Agreed. My character could make +18 Armor AC and +14 Shield AC aegises with this, if I get their names, at level 12. EDIT: using the Spell Resistance Talent, that means a character can give 20+2*CL Spell Resistance. BTFO Casters.

That being said, what even would be the method of finding the "True Names" of your party? Only thing I'm finding is a Wizard Discovery. If it's something from the upcoming Fate book, then it's a poor idea, imo, to include it here atm. We can't test it without that information.

[EldritchWeaver]

Fate is actually available. The current list of playtests:

Creation: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kitAB8sHgmuD3fvOMuI_KyV_dxpO2wrxQmbnCoRgglA/edit?usp=sharing (http://email.patreon.com/track/click/30041941/docs.google.com?p=eyJzIjoiOTR0YTlvcWRfXzdvV21QaFl3 cXo3cHAwdWt3IiwidiI6MSwicCI6IntcInVcIjozMDA0MTk0MS xcInZcIjoxLFwidXJsXCI6XCJodHRwczpcXFwvXFxcL2RvY3Mu Z29vZ2xlLmNvbVxcXC9kb2N1bWVudFxcXC9kXFxcLzFraXRBQj hzSGdtdUQzZnZPTXVJX0t5Vl9keHBPMndyeFFtYm5Db1JnZ2xB XFxcL2VkaXQ_dXNwPXNoYXJpbmdcIixcImlkXCI6XCIyODlmNz I0YWNmZDk0YjYyOWUzZjI0MDMzMTFlMmJmYVwiLFwidXJsX2lk c1wiOltcImVkM2JiYjE4ZTI3NjFlNjUzYjk5ZGE5M2NiNzA4NT E0ZjU3M2UzNzlcIl19In0)

Conjuration: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Pv6p5znwFC20CMTuRkQM0FLauN_O8ppG-xk7IxM4UYo/edit?usp=sharing (http://email.patreon.com/track/click/30041941/docs.google.com?p=eyJzIjoiQXpfYkNwb0FmSDBEMU5sa28z bkVOYkpoRm9nIiwidiI6MSwicCI6IntcInVcIjozMDA0MTk0MS xcInZcIjoxLFwidXJsXCI6XCJodHRwczpcXFwvXFxcL2RvY3Mu Z29vZ2xlLmNvbVxcXC9kb2N1bWVudFxcXC9kXFxcLzFQdjZwNX pud0ZDMjBDTVR1UmtRTTBGTGF1Tl9POHBwRy14azdJeE00VVlv XFxcL2VkaXQ_dXNwPXNoYXJpbmdcIixcImlkXCI6XCIyODlmNz I0YWNmZDk0YjYyOWUzZjI0MDMzMTFlMmJmYVwiLFwidXJsX2lk c1wiOltcImVkM2JiYjE4ZTI3NjFlNjUzYjk5ZGE5M2NiNzA4NT E0ZjU3M2UzNzlcIl19In0)
Protection: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dsup9yABZEx4p8_SSWSCcVzKoZtaYLmmHSQ1MUG86iU/edit?usp=sharing (http://email.patreon.com/track/click/30041941/docs.google.com?p=eyJzIjoiVXVtRGJWbVFYUTZ2ekQteGpZ MnJ3STdJa0V3IiwidiI6MSwicCI6IntcInVcIjozMDA0MTk0MS xcInZcIjoxLFwidXJsXCI6XCJodHRwczpcXFwvXFxcL2RvY3Mu Z29vZ2xlLmNvbVxcXC9kb2N1bWVudFxcXC9kXFxcLzFEc3VwOX lBQlpFeDRwOF9TU1dTQ2NWektvWnRhWUxtbUhTUTFNVUc4NmlV XFxcL2VkaXQ_dXNwPXNoYXJpbmdcIixcImlkXCI6XCIyODlmNz I0YWNmZDk0YjYyOWUzZjI0MDMzMTFlMmJmYVwiLFwidXJsX2lk c1wiOltcImVkM2JiYjE4ZTI3NjFlNjUzYjk5ZGE5M2NiNzA4NT E0ZjU3M2UzNzlcIl19In0)
Fate: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KY57H-XGD_QOlZCmbGygRQEEK2f4c3AsZINL3VKDv1A/edit?usp=sharing (http://email.patreon.com/track/click/30041941/docs.google.com?p=eyJzIjoieDFVamFSTzNWSnFUMHlRdUc2 czh0VDhpVDJnIiwidiI6MSwicCI6IntcInVcIjozMDA0MTk0MS xcInZcIjoxLFwidXJsXCI6XCJodHRwczpcXFwvXFxcL2RvY3Mu Z29vZ2xlLmNvbVxcXC9kb2N1bWVudFxcXC9kXFxcLzFLWTU3SC 1YR0RfUU9sWkNtYkd5Z1JRRUVLMmY0YzNBc1pJTkwzVktEdjFB XFxcL2VkaXQ_dXNwPXNoYXJpbmdcIixcImlkXCI6XCIyODlmNz I0YWNmZDk0YjYyOWUzZjI0MDMzMTFlMmJmYVwiLFwidXJsX2lk c1wiOltcImVkM2JiYjE4ZTI3NjFlNjUzYjk5ZGE5M2NiNzA4NT E0ZjU3M2UzNzlcIl19In0)

[mrguymiah]

Fate is actually available. The current list of playtests:

Creation: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kitAB8sHgmuD3fvOMuI_KyV_dxpO2wrxQmbnCoRgglA/edit?usp=sharing (http://email.patreon.com/track/click/30041941/docs.google.com?p=eyJzIjoiOTR0YTlvcWRfXzdvV21QaFl3 cXo3cHAwdWt3IiwidiI6MSwicCI6IntcInVcIjozMDA0MTk0MS xcInZcIjoxLFwidXJsXCI6XCJodHRwczpcXFwvXFxcL2RvY3Mu Z29vZ2xlLmNvbVxcXC9kb2N1bWVudFxcXC9kXFxcLzFraXRBQj hzSGdtdUQzZnZPTXVJX0t5Vl9keHBPMndyeFFtYm5Db1JnZ2xB XFxcL2VkaXQ_dXNwPXNoYXJpbmdcIixcImlkXCI6XCIyODlmNz I0YWNmZDk0YjYyOWUzZjI0MDMzMTFlMmJmYVwiLFwidXJsX2lk c1wiOltcImVkM2JiYjE4ZTI3NjFlNjUzYjk5ZGE5M2NiNzA4NT E0ZjU3M2UzNzlcIl19In0)

Conjuration: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Pv6p5znwFC20CMTuRkQM0FLauN_O8ppG-xk7IxM4UYo/edit?usp=sharing (http://email.patreon.com/track/click/30041941/docs.google.com?p=eyJzIjoiQXpfYkNwb0FmSDBEMU5sa28z bkVOYkpoRm9nIiwidiI6MSwicCI6IntcInVcIjozMDA0MTk0MS xcInZcIjoxLFwidXJsXCI6XCJodHRwczpcXFwvXFxcL2RvY3Mu Z29vZ2xlLmNvbVxcXC9kb2N1bWVudFxcXC9kXFxcLzFQdjZwNX pud0ZDMjBDTVR1UmtRTTBGTGF1Tl9POHBwRy14azdJeE00VVlv XFxcL2VkaXQ_dXNwPXNoYXJpbmdcIixcImlkXCI6XCIyODlmNz I0YWNmZDk0YjYyOWUzZjI0MDMzMTFlMmJmYVwiLFwidXJsX2lk c1wiOltcImVkM2JiYjE4ZTI3NjFlNjUzYjk5ZGE5M2NiNzA4NT E0ZjU3M2UzNzlcIl19In0)
Protection: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dsup9yABZEx4p8_SSWSCcVzKoZtaYLmmHSQ1MUG86iU/edit?usp=sharing (http://email.patreon.com/track/click/30041941/docs.google.com?p=eyJzIjoiVXVtRGJWbVFYUTZ2ekQteGpZ MnJ3STdJa0V3IiwidiI6MSwicCI6IntcInVcIjozMDA0MTk0MS xcInZcIjoxLFwidXJsXCI6XCJodHRwczpcXFwvXFxcL2RvY3Mu Z29vZ2xlLmNvbVxcXC9kb2N1bWVudFxcXC9kXFxcLzFEc3VwOX lBQlpFeDRwOF9TU1dTQ2NWektvWnRhWUxtbUhTUTFNVUc4NmlV XFxcL2VkaXQ_dXNwPXNoYXJpbmdcIixcImlkXCI6XCIyODlmNz I0YWNmZDk0YjYyOWUzZjI0MDMzMTFlMmJmYVwiLFwidXJsX2lk c1wiOltcImVkM2JiYjE4ZTI3NjFlNjUzYjk5ZGE5M2NiNzA4NT E0ZjU3M2UzNzlcIl19In0)
Fate: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KY57H-XGD_QOlZCmbGygRQEEK2f4c3AsZINL3VKDv1A/edit?usp=sharing (http://email.patreon.com/track/click/30041941/docs.google.com?p=eyJzIjoieDFVamFSTzNWSnFUMHlRdUc2 czh0VDhpVDJnIiwidiI6MSwicCI6IntcInVcIjozMDA0MTk0MS xcInZcIjoxLFwidXJsXCI6XCJodHRwczpcXFwvXFxcL2RvY3Mu Z29vZ2xlLmNvbVxcXC9kb2N1bWVudFxcXC9kXFxcLzFLWTU3SC 1YR0RfUU9sWkNtYkd5Z1JRRUVLMmY0YzNBc1pJTkwzVktEdjFB XFxcL2VkaXQ_dXNwPXNoYXJpbmdcIixcImlkXCI6XCIyODlmNz I0YWNmZDk0YjYyOWUzZjI0MDMzMTFlMmJmYVwiLFwidXJsX2lk c1wiOltcImVkM2JiYjE4ZTI3NjFlNjUzYjk5ZGE5M2NiNzA4NT E0ZjU3M2UzNzlcIl19In0)

My apologies then. A google search hadn't brought it up and comments I'd seen made me think it hadn't, yet. My bad entirely.

Edit: Are True Names in here? I'm still not finding anything on them.

[A.J.Gibson]

I have some issue with the True Protection Talent. It seems even radically more GM dependent than normal for an Advanced Talent, while also being quite powerful if you do have access to the True Names of your party.

Also Mystic Shell just seems like a straight up better version of Magic Sink (from the Enhancement Sphere), which may or may not be desired.

I've rewritten True Protection to give it some guidelines. I'm not actually clear on how Magic Sink can be used with spells, so I'm not certain if it's better, but Mystic Shell is certainly easier to use, and it can fuel succor talents.

[A.J.Gibson]

some caster level scaling sphere abilities cap at 20th (or imply they do). It was more of a general design question. I'm not sure if any of yours did (well, one did for sure, but it was kinda necessary because it was the thing that maxed out at 50% chance to nullify an attack iirc).

The 50% is sort of a rule in pathfinder, so that's why it works that way.

[A.J.Gibson]

Good, because I'd like to include clerics instead of just usign Soul Weavers as expies of them.

That does make sense. Glad that it found a home.

I was literally having an aruement on these boards where I said that a good idea for high-level martial would be no-selling magic. Wasn't expecting the niverse to grant me that so fast.

Huh. Must have missed that one.

Either way, you've given us a Sop/SoM acrehtype before they did.

It's a great thing mechanically. It's just an odd name is all.

Well, it'd be odd to update it without it...

Good to know.

I'd think it was off class level, but I figured it was best to double check.

Dreamscarred Press, you've lied to me!

Couldn't they just use its Perception for that?

It's a great concept, it just needs a few kinks worked out.

That's why you do playtests; sometimes you're too close to see the trees.

Oh, I understand. It looks like an ability I'll import to my games so Warpriests and Aegises (still feels wierd calling it that) can swap in to that as needed. Still doesn't explain why you didn't call it bulletproof, though...

Stack is working on a Champions of the Spheres book. I consulted with him when writing the Marshal Controller - our ideas overlapped a bit. But the Marshal Controller is more spherecaster than spheremighter, I went with Guardian sphere because it solved a problem I had. I almost went with Eternal Guardian from PoW!

God Mode needs a better name. Maybe Marshal Controller does, too.

For explosive runes: can a normal person tell when they are being looked at? I might put something in to let glyphs do that.

I went with anti-ballistic because this works against destructive blasts (stone blast, especially). And I just liked the sound of it.

If you have any more questions, feel free to put them on the document where I won't forget them!

[A.J.Gibson]

My apologies then. A google search hadn't brought it up and comments I'd seen made me think it hadn't, yet. My bad entirely.

Edit: Are True Names in here? I'm still not finding anything on them.

True names is something some of writers have been talking about doing something with, that is all.

[digiman619]

Stack is working on a Champions of the Spheres book. I consulted with him when writing the Marshal Controller - our ideas overlapped a bit. But the Marshal Controller is more spherecaster than spheremighter, I went with Guardian sphere because it solved a problem I had. I almost went with Eternal Guardian from PoW!
Going this way was probably better, if for no other reason than a PoW class/archetype needs at least 3 disciplines to work and there are many ways to swap out disciplines, so there's no guarantee that they'd use Eternal Guardian anyway.


For explosive runes: can a normal person tell when they are being looked at? I might put something in to let glyphs do that. Well, you have to be close enough to physically read them and you can "specifically instruct" people how to read them without activating them, so all this looks like the Perception skill should cover it.


If you have any more questions, feel free to put them on the document where I won't forget them!
Will do, but sometimes I find making a list of things in one place is easier to get a grasp on rather than appedicizing it to the appropriate text.

[Lirya]

I think Gravitas covers that.

It looks like you are right. Usually in SoP it is the person trying to do something who makes the magic skill check (see multiple Shapeshifts, Spell Ward from Protection and Plane Manipulator from Warp). Also, failed attempts to teleport to a location typically means nothing happens (with the teleporting party taking damage and arriving off target in a random direction as an alternate possibility). I don't think simply arriving at the edge of the barrier is a common result.

Most of the wording seems to indicate that the ward also should protect against non-spell abilities, but a creature normally needs levels in a casting class to have MSB/MSD and the part describing the magic skill check specifically mentions spells.

Here is an attempt to rewrite the ability to increase clarity and make it more in line with how similar abilities work.
The area of your ward is protected from effects that alter reality, including abilities that change the rate of time, teleportation, gravitational effects, inter-dimensional effects, distortion of space, and Warp and Time sphere abilities. Make one magic skill check against each such ability within the area to suppress it for the duration of the ward, use this also for existing abilities that are moved into the ward. Whenever such an ability is used either within the area of the ward or in an attempt to enter the ward the user must pass a magic skill check against your MSD, or the ability fails. Su and Ex abilities use the originating creature's HD as MSB and HD+11 as MSD.

[A.J.Gibson]

It looks like you are right. Usually in SoP it is the person trying to do something who makes the magic skill check (see multiple Shapeshifts, Spell Ward from Protection and Plane Manipulator from Warp). Also, failed attempts to teleport to a location typically means nothing happens (with the teleporting party taking damage and arriving off target in a random direction as an alternate possibility). I don't think simply arriving at the edge of the barrier is a common result.

Most of the wording seems to indicate that the ward also should protect against non-spell abilities, but a creature normally needs levels in a casting class to have MSB/MSD and the part describing the magic skill check specifically mentions spells.

Here is an attempt to rewrite the ability to increase clarity and make it more in line with how similar abilities work.
The area of your ward is protected from effects that alter reality, including abilities that change the rate of time, teleportation, gravitational effects, inter-dimensional effects, distortion of space, and Warp and Time sphere abilities. Make one magic skill check against each such ability within the area to suppress it for the duration of the ward, use this also for existing abilities that are moved into the ward. Whenever such an ability is used either within the area of the ward or in an attempt to enter the ward the user must pass a magic skill check against your MSD, or the ability fails. Su and Ex abilities use the originating creature's HD as MSB and HD+11 as MSD.

Thanks. I've made changes.

[NomGarret]

So I've been happily misreading the base effect this whole time only to find Selective Ward and that in order to create a barrier my buddies can shoot through I need to spend an extra talent and a SP! My world is shaken, AJ! Shaken!

[A.J.Gibson]

So I've been happily misreading the base effect this whole time only to find Selective Ward and that in order to create a barrier my buddies can shoot through I need to spend an extra talent and a SP! My world is shaken, AJ! Shaken!

Afraid that's the way it is. Actually, I might change up selective a bit if it prove too strong - it's weird that the barrier know who is an ally and who is not, that's more of a war thing.

[A.J.Gibson]

A general update:

After a flurry of input, things have died down a bit and I've mostly caught up with everyone's comments. There are still a few things I'd like to discuss:

First, no one has commented on the new Eliciter emotion. Are there any Eliciter players out there?

Second, I'm not certain about the Faithful Shepherd's spontaneous spellcasting ability. I don't want to copy the Spiritualist hedgewitch (as I feel it's too strong), but the amount of time it takes to gain a talent has been objected to by people who think it should be more and less.

Third, I'm still trying to get the sanctions right for the Exorcist. Each of it's sanctions is supposed to be good against creatures of a certain type, but some types are so broad they don't have any shared weaknesses.

Other than that, I think we're good. It didn't get as thorough a vetting as Life did, so it might be heavily rewritten when that happens, but otherwise, I don't see much changing.

[khadgar567]

A general update:

After a flurry of input, things have died down a bit and I've mostly caught up with everyone's comments. There are still a few things I'd like to discuss:

First, no one has commented on the new Eliciter emotion. Are there any Eliciter players out there?

Second, I'm not certain about the Faithful Shepherd's spontaneous spellcasting ability. I don't want to copy the Spiritualist hedgewitch (as I feel it's too strong), but the amount of time it takes to gain a talent has been objected to by people who think it should be more and less.

Third, I'm still trying to get the sanctions right for the Exorcist. Each of it's sanctions is supposed to be good against creatures of a certain type, but some types are so broad they don't have any shared weaknesses.

Other than that, I think we're good. It didn't get as thorough a vetting as Life did, so it might be heavily rewritten when that happens, but otherwise, I don't see much changing.
small question what the f happened on true protections double your protection bonus talent and why it changed it was good as it is now its kinda worthless

[Mehangel]

Afraid that's the way it is. Actually, I might change up selective a bit if it prove too strong - it's weird that the barrier know who is an ally and who is not, that's more of a war thing.

What about rewording the talent to be written similar to the Destroyer's Handbook's Selective Blast:

Selective Barrier
Barriers you create are selective, allowing one ally plus one per 10 caster levels to pass and attack through it while leaving it solid to all other creatures. You may instead spend a spell point to increase the number of affected allies by your casting ability modifier (minimum +1). Affected allies are chosen at the time of casting, but may be changed at the beginning of your turn as a free action.

[A.J.Gibson]

small question what the f happened on true protections double your protection bonus talent and why it changed it was good as it is now its kinda worthless

The parameters of what qualified as 'true name' changed. I originally intended the ability to be hard to use - you couldn't just use a person's given name, you had to research them and know you were going to fight them. After being asked to clarify what counts as knowing someone's true name, it got quite a bit easier. I might push up the bonus a bit, since Protection mostly scales badly.

[A.J.Gibson]

What about rewording the talent to be written similar to the Destroyer's Handbook's Selective Blast:

Selective Barrier
Barriers you create are selective, allowing one ally plus one per 10 caster levels to pass and attack through it while leaving it solid to all other creatures. You may instead spend a spell point to increase the number of affected allies by your casting ability modifier (minimum +1). Affected allies are chosen at the time of casting, but may be changed at the beginning of your turn as a free action.

Mirroring the destruction sphere talent is a pretty good idea, but it's still very weird to visualize beyond 'it's magic!' I was thinking of maybe making it possible to move or attack through the barrier, but only through one side. Or maybe allowing the caster to choose one of several configurations that represent the physical design of the barrier - so when you choose 'ranged attacks go through and nothing else' it gains arrow slits, and if you choose 'people can pass through it' it's two layer of short walls you can walk through that don't allow line of effect.

[khadgar567]

The parameters of what qualified as 'true name' changed. I originally intended the ability to be hard to use - you couldn't just use a person's given name, you had to research them and know you were going to fight them. After being asked to clarify what counts as knowing someone's true name, it got quite a bit easier. I might push up the bonus a bit, since Protection mostly scales badly.
please push more i want my +10 ac at level one back us casters are already to squishy to make mistakes

[Mehangel]

Mirroring the destruction sphere talent is a pretty good idea, but it's still very weird to visualize beyond 'it's magic!' I was thinking of maybe making it possible to move or attack through the barrier, but only through one side. Or maybe allowing the caster to choose one of several configurations that represent the physical design of the barrier - so when you choose 'ranged attacks go through and nothing else' it gains arrow slits, and if you choose 'people can pass through it' it's two layer of short walls you can walk through that don't allow line of effect.

I understand what you are getting at, but if the caster also has the Continuous Barrier talent, then it could also get really weird to have a "completely sealed" barrier, but has open pathways or arrow slits. Personally, simply saying "it's magic" is simple and clean-cut (even if cliche).

[Drifter S.]

I'd just like to say that seeing the Magus Arcana in this book brightened my day, as I have a lot of love for the Magus and was kind of sad to see how it ended up eating the dust of the Hedgewitch and Mageknight. Hopefully some future sphere books give the Magus some more love.

To segway right in to actual questions, how does Shared Aegis interact with Protected Soul drawback and Personal Protection Arcana (and by extension the Martial Aegis feat)? From what I'm reading, a Magus (or full BAB lowcaster) would take the drawback for a self-only Aegis, get Shared Aegis (either with the bonus talent or another drawback), then the arcana/feat to boost it to full CL. So long as he has some way of keeping his reach up (mostly size, as I don't think the wording allows something like encompassing light), his allies also benefit from the full effective caster level. I'm doubtful this is actually a problem, just curious if it actually interacts the way I'm parsing it or if Shared Aegis isn't actually intended to work with Protected Soul.

Since I'm asking about Shared Protection, a talent for standing next to and guarding allies, I might as well also ask if it ever occurred to have any Protection-related talents or feats related to the Bodyguard feat. Something that mimics the Benevolent armor quality (without stacking with said quality) is the first thing to come to mind, though far from the only option. If it was something that was brought up and discarded, care to share why?

[A.J.Gibson]

please push more i want my +10 ac at level one back us casters are already to squishy to make mistakes

How were you getting +10 AC at level 1?

[A.J.Gibson]

I'd just like to say that seeing the Magus Arcana in this book brightened my day, as I have a lot of love for the Magus and was kind of sad to see how it ended up eating the dust of the Hedgewitch and Mageknight. Hopefully some future sphere books give the Magus some more love.

To segway right in to actual questions, how does Shared Aegis interact with Protected Soul drawback and Personal Protection Arcana (and by extension the Martial Aegis feat)? From what I'm reading, a Magus (or full BAB lowcaster) would take the drawback for a self-only Aegis, get Shared Aegis (either with the bonus talent or another drawback), then the arcana/feat to boost it to full CL. So long as he has some way of keeping his reach up (mostly size, as I don't think the wording allows something like encompassing light), his allies also benefit from the full effective caster level. I'm doubtful this is actually a problem, just curious if it actually interacts the way I'm parsing it or if Shared Aegis isn't actually intended to work with Protected Soul.

Since I'm asking about Shared Protection, a talent for standing next to and guarding allies, I might as well also ask if it ever occurred to have any Protection-related talents or feats related to the Bodyguard feat. Something that mimics the Benevolent armor quality (without stacking with said quality) is the first thing to come to mind, though far from the only option. If it was something that was brought up and discarded, care to share why?

I like trying to give support to all classes, though the Magus is tricky, because it's hard to give them anything that should be exclusively magus.

Shared Aegis works fine for a character with Protected Soul and Personal Protection - you are extending an existing aegis, not creating a new one. So yes, you can give an ally a full-CL aegis if you want to shadow them.

I hadn't really thought about anything like the bodyguard feat. Protection sphere, despite the name, isn't really about protecting people, as much as it about building protective barriers and repelling harmful effects. Anything like that would probably be in Spheres of Might, unless it specifically involves an aegis or ward. Something like the Guardian aegis might be good if I can think of something.

[meemaas]

How were you getting +10 AC at level 1?

I'm gonna hazard a guess at using Armored Magic twice and the Deflection Aegis for +5 and then doubling it.

[khadgar567]

I'm gonna hazard a guess at using Armored Magic twice and the Deflection Aegis for +5 and then doubling it.
Kinda armored magic and greater armored magic to old version of true protection no deflection aegis though

[A.J.Gibson]

Kinda armored magic and greater armored magic to old version of true protection no deflection aegis though

Yeah, but that +10 was versus one creature who you knew the name of. How useful was that?

[A.J.Gibson]

I'd just like to say that seeing the Magus Arcana in this book brightened my day, as I have a lot of love for the Magus and was kind of sad to see how it ended up eating the dust of the Hedgewitch and Mageknight. Hopefully some future sphere books give the Magus some more love.


I'm actually going to revisit the arcana. Dispel strike barely does anything at all, so I'm going to combine it and reflecting strike into one (useful) arcana. I'll probably buff Personal Protection, too.

[Eldaran]

Mirroring the destruction sphere talent is a pretty good idea, but it's still very weird to visualize beyond 'it's magic!' I was thinking of maybe making it possible to move or attack through the barrier, but only through one side. Or maybe allowing the caster to choose one of several configurations that represent the physical design of the barrier - so when you choose 'ranged attacks go through and nothing else' it gains arrow slits, and if you choose 'people can pass through it' it's two layer of short walls you can walk through that don't allow line of effect.

This is what I did in my game: "Permeable Barrier: When creating a barrier you may choose to make one side permeable, allowing any effect to travel through it as normal." I find the concept a lot more appealing than just having it ignore allies.

[NomGarret]

This is what I did in my game: "Permeable Barrier: When creating a barrier you may choose to make one side permeable, allowing any effect to travel through it as normal." I find the concept a lot more appealing than just having it ignore allies.

I like that. I picture a barrier of overlapping plates that, because of their arrangement, part easily from one direction but lock together from the other.

[AlienFromBeyond]

First, no one has commented on the new Eliciter emotion. Are there any Eliciter players out there?

Second, I'm not certain about the Faithful Shepherd's spontaneous spellcasting ability. I don't want to copy the Spiritualist hedgewitch (as I feel it's too strong), but the amount of time it takes to gain a talent has been objected to by people who think it should be more and less.

Third, I'm still trying to get the sanctions right for the Exorcist. Each of it's sanctions is supposed to be good against creatures of a certain type, but some types are so broad they don't have any shared weaknesses.
I'll admit Eliciter has never really gotten me very excited, just never really been sure what to actually do with the class. That said I'll take another look instead of glossing over that bit just to try and provide at least a little feedback.

I agree that the Spiritualist tradition is too strong so I totally understand not wanting to get to close to that in its mechanics.

Quite, such as Outsider which covers so much.

[A.J.Gibson]

So, the Coiled Blade Spheres of Might Fighter archetype has recently been changed from replacing the feats at 2/6/10/14/18 to 1/4/8/12/16/20. Can't say I blame them, since it's nice to get archetype changes at 1st level and a modified capstone, but it means Impossible Warrior is no longer compatible. So I'm thinking: should I rewrite Impossible Warrior to use 2/6/10/14/18? A SoM fighter that is also an anti-magic specialist might be good.

[digiman619]

I know that it's probably too late in production for it, but I'd love for a Sentinel archetype that gave them the Protection sphere.

[A.J.Gibson]

I know that it's probably too late in production for it, but I'd love for a Sentinel archetype that gave them the Protection sphere.

It would make more sense for the Champion of the Spheres book to do that, probably. To honest, turning a non-caster into a caster is generally a bad idea, especially if you just want them to have access to one sphere. Instead, an archetype could be made that let the Sentinel choose protection talents and use them as Spell-Like Abilities, but only on their self. I actually had a Swashbuckler archetype in Protection that did exactly this, but it go cut before playtesting. Alternatively, a feat could be written to accomplish the same effect:

Protective Reserve
Prerequisites: Sentinel's Reserve class feature
Benefit: When you gain this feat, choose an Aegis talent from the Protection sphere. You may create that aegis, but only on yourself, by spending a point from your reserve. For the purpose of this aegis, your caster level is equal to your sentinel level, and your casting ability is ability you use to determine the points in your reserve. You may acquire this feat multiple times; each time, choose a different aegis.

(feel free to steal this)

[digiman619]

It would make more sense for the Champion of the Spheres book to do that, probably. To honest, turning a non-caster into a caster is generally a bad idea, especially if you just want them to have access to one sphere. Instead, an archetype could be made that let the Sentinel choose protection talents and use them as Spell-Like Abilities, but only on their self. I actually had a Swashbuckler archetype in Protection that did exactly this, but it goes cut before playtesting. Alternatively, a feat could be written to accomplish the same effect:

Protective Reserve
Prerequisites: Sentinel's Reserve class feature
Benefit: When you gain this feat, choose an Aegis talent from the Protection sphere. You may create that aegis, but only on yourself, by spending a point from your reserve. For the purpose of this aegis, your caster level is equal to your sentinel level, and your casting ability is the ability you use to determine the points in your reserve. You may acquire this feat multiple times; each time, choose a different aegis.

(feel free to steal this)

Apparantly they're running out of room for it. And I can neither confirm nor deny that I will use that feat.

[AlienFromBeyond]

So, the Coiled Blade Spheres of Might Fighter archetype has recently been changed from replacing the feats at 2/6/10/14/18 to 1/4/8/12/16/20. Can't say I blame them, since it's nice to get archetype changes at 1st level and a modified capstone, but it means Impossible Warrior is no longer compatible. So I'm thinking: should I rewrite Impossible Warrior to use 2/6/10/14/18? A SoM fighter that is also an anti-magic specialist might be good.
I am all for it, for much the same reasons. Even a War Hero Impossible Warrior sounds fun!

[A.J.Gibson]

Every now and then someone asks for a spheres version of the occultist classes. After looking over the occultist again, I noticed how similar it's magic circle ability resembled wards, and thought a protection themed archetype of the occultist would make a good inclusion into the protection handbook. I've added it to the book, but I haven't decided if I'm keeping it yet, and wouldn't mind hearing some opinions on the subject.

[khadgar567]

i think i asked this in might topic to but did protection aegis and unarmored training from equipment sphere stacks or i choose one?

[EldritchWeaver]

i think i asked this in might topic to but did protection aegis and unarmored training from equipment sphere stacks or i choose one?

If you choose the armor bonus one, no, they don't stack.

[Domar]

i think i asked this in might topic to but did protection aegis and unarmored training from equipment sphere stacks or i choose one?

The armor bonuses from Armored Magic and Unarmored Training overlap and don't stack. But it can be worthwhile to get both. Unarmored Training applies to touch AC and scales faster. Armored Magic applies while immobilized and also grants a shield bonus.

Also note that the AC Bonus class feature of Monks and similar stacks with Armored Magic but not Unarmored Training.

[A.J.Gibson]

I'm going to take minute to talk about the cryptomancer (occultist archetype) since the same points seem to come up a lot. Nothing is set in stone at this point, but there are a couple things I think we can discuss in depth.

First, Mental Focus works similarly for cryptomancer, except there is no generic focus. Instead, you can use spell points in place of focus if you are the one bearing the implement.

Implement schools don't grant bonus spells known, or rather, they grant you the mid-caster progression. Most mid-casters give up spells known for their casting progression (while they give up spell slots for spell points), the cryptomancer gives up spells known from their implements instead.

The cryptomancer gets Protection sphere at full CL with armored magic in return for their armor and shield proficiencies.

The cryptomancer keeps their implements schools. So you have a spheres caster with powers defined by Vancian schools. I know some people want to see this switched with sphere implements, which isn't a bad idea, but is just simply beyond the scope of the book, since it would require writing new focus talents for every sphere (or stealing incanter specializations). Instead, I removed most of the resonance powers (since they were the bit that referred to certain schools most, such as Conjuration focus granting caster level bonuses to Conjuration spells) and replaced them with new resonance powers.

Finally, I'm not certain what to do about powers that grant effects that duplicate equipment. I always feel like it's a rip off if my powers can be duplicated by an inexpensive item ("My super power is cost-effectiveness"). There is also the issue that it is balanced against the wealth level and crafting availability of the campaign. If I did something, it would probably be as an additional feat, so those playing high-money campaigns can just not take the ability.

A class that uses implements like an occultist with spheres would be pretty awesome, but it would require such a massive rewrite, I'd rather do it as a spheres class to begin with.

I'm not set on the resonance powers I have now, but one thing I want to do is to avoid duplicating sphere effects. Class features which are just 'you can do this spell' are kinda boring and feel like a rip-off. You're basically forcing the player to take a certain talent, and not even giving them the talent.

[Cybershark]

I'm going to take minute to talk about the cryptomancer (occultist archetype) since the same points seem to come up a lot. Nothing is set in stone at this point, but there are a couple things I think we can discuss in depth.

First, Mental Focus works similarly for cryptomancer, except there is no generic focus. Instead, you can use spell points in place of focus if you are the one bearing the implement.

Implement schools don't grant bonus spells known, or rather, they grant you the mid-caster progression. Most mid-casters give up spells known for their casting progression (while they give up spell slots for spell points), the cryptomancer gives up spells known from their implements instead.

The cryptomancer gets Protection sphere at full CL with armored magic in return for their armor and shield proficiencies.

The cryptomancer keeps their implements schools. So you have a spheres caster with powers defined by Vancian schools. I know some people want to see this switched with sphere implements, which isn't a bad idea, but is just simply beyond the scope of the book, since it would require writing new focus talents for every sphere (or stealing incanter specializations). Instead, I removed most of the resonance powers (since they were the bit that referred to certain schools most, such as Conjuration focus granting caster level bonuses to Conjuration spells) and replaced them with new resonance powers.

Finally, I'm not certain what to do about powers that grant effects that duplicate equipment. I always feel like it's a rip off if my powers can be duplicated by an inexpensive item ("My super power is cost-effectiveness"). There is also the issue that it is balanced against the wealth level and crafting availability of the campaign. If I did something, it would probably be as an additional feat, so those playing high-money campaigns can just not take the ability.

A class that uses implements like an occultist with spheres would be pretty awesome, but it would require such a massive rewrite, I'd rather do it as a spheres class to begin with.

I'm not set on the resonance powers I have now, but one thing I want to do is to avoid duplicating sphere effects. Class features which are just 'you can do this spell' are kinda boring and feel like a rip-off. You're basically forcing the player to take a certain talent, and not even giving them the talent.

It's exceedingly difficult to write Sphere conversions of the occult classes, either because it's already covered but not-quite-identically (Eliciter/Mesmerist, Kineticist/Elementalist, Medium/Troubadour), because it's too vested into Vancian mechanics (Occultist, Psychic, parts of Mesmerist), or because it's just plain full of weird class features (Spiritualist, Medium).

I view the powers that duplicate equipment bonuses in the opposite manner- I don't have to spend my precious gold on boosting my numbers, and can instead spend it on getting stuff that gives me NEW abilities or NEW capabilities. Money that may have been spent on a +4 belt could instead go towards a new weapon special ability. An Occultist with Transmutation/Abjuration implements saves tens of thousands of gold over one without... and it's not digging into their other abilities too heavily. The Armorist, maligned as it may be, also has "I'm cost-effective" as one of its major selling points. The Soulknife from 3.5e has "I'm cost-effective" as one of its major selling points. It's not an uncommon power.

Honestly, I just don't like Cryptomancer even though it is a "Sphere Occultist". I think there's merit for sphere conversions for occult classes, but as its own release, not bundled in as part of a handbook.

[khadgar567]

It's exceedingly difficult to write Sphere conversions of the occult classes, either because it's already covered but not-quite-identically (Eliciter/Mesmerist, Kineticist/Elementalist, Medium/Troubadour), because it's too vested into Vancian mechanics (Occultist, Psychic, parts of Mesmerist), or because it's just plain full of weird class features (Spiritualist, Medium).

I view the powers that duplicate equipment bonuses in the opposite manner- I don't have to spend my precious gold on boosting my numbers, and can instead spend it on getting stuff that gives me NEW abilities or NEW capabilities. Money that may have been spent on a +4 belt could instead go towards a new weapon special ability. An Occultist with Transmutation/Abjuration implements saves tens of thousands of gold over one without... and it's not digging into their other abilities too heavily. The Armorist, maligned as it may be, also has "I'm cost-effective" as one of its major selling points. The Soulknife from 3.5e has "I'm cost-effective" as one of its major selling points. It's not an uncommon power.

Honestly, I just don't like Cryptomancer even though it is a "Sphere Occultist". I think there's merit for sphere conversions for occult classes, but as its own release, not bundled in as part of a handbook.
You know answer is in the word of expended. Aka we need new spheres to expend the content. Which solves medium and spiritualists problem of not having clear sphere to focus so i nominate spirit sphere as name of the next sphere after blood as mechanics of the sphere how about possesion were caster possesed by companion similar to conjuration sphere but instead of summoning out then possesing our companion it pulls the oposite were companion posses us and adds the skills and abilities to us like celebrimbor from shadow of mordor.

this way we can convert both classes to sphere system while solve the lack of focus problem. And also provide support to binder based game play.

[A.J.Gibson]

It's exceedingly difficult to write Sphere conversions of the occult classes, either because it's already covered but not-quite-identically (Eliciter/Mesmerist, Kineticist/Elementalist, Medium/Troubadour), because it's too vested into Vancian mechanics (Occultist, Psychic, parts of Mesmerist), or because it's just plain full of weird class features (Spiritualist, Medium).

I view the powers that duplicate equipment bonuses in the opposite manner- I don't have to spend my precious gold on boosting my numbers, and can instead spend it on getting stuff that gives me NEW abilities or NEW capabilities. Money that may have been spent on a +4 belt could instead go towards a new weapon special ability. An Occultist with Transmutation/Abjuration implements saves tens of thousands of gold over one without... and it's not digging into their other abilities too heavily. The Armorist, maligned as it may be, also has "I'm cost-effective" as one of its major selling points. The Soulknife from 3.5e has "I'm cost-effective" as one of its major selling points. It's not an uncommon power.

Honestly, I just don't like Cryptomancer even though it is a "Sphere Occultist". I think there's merit for sphere conversions for occult classes, but as its own release, not bundled in as part of a handbook.

First, I just want to say I think the spiritualist would be an easy conversion. Almost none of its class features are linked to vancian spell casting beyond their spell-like abilities, and you can keep those quite easily. Of course, you don't get full-CL in anything...

So is the general concensus that people would prefer the old transmutation resonance ability? Because frankly, I wouldn't mind cutting some words from the handbook. I really don't see why anyone would want to keep abjuration, though, with resistance aegis so easy to get. And as I've said elsewhere, I think classes should get unique class features when possible, not abilities which exactly duplicate spells.

I'd also like to point out that the Cryptomancer does not preclude the printing of a Sphere Occultist at a later date. And if someone went to Adam Meyers and said they want to do a conversion, he'd probably listen. I'm not certain if conversions of classes if enough to base an entire release on, though.

Is there anything else about the Cryptomancer you don't like?

[khadgar567]

First, I just want to say I think the spiritualist would be an easy conversion. Almost none of its class features are linked to vancian spell casting beyond their spell-like abilities, and you can keep those quite easily. Of course, you don't get full-CL in anything...

So is the general concensus that people would prefer the old transmutation resonance ability? Because frankly, I wouldn't mind cutting some words from the handbook. I really don't see why anyone would want to keep abjuration, though, with resistance aegis so easy to get. And as I've said elsewhere, I think classes should get unique class features when possible, not abilities which exactly duplicate spells.

I'd also like to point out that the Cryptomancer does not preclude the printing of a Sphere Occultist at a later date. And if someone went to Adam Meyers and said they want to do a conversion, he'd probably listen. I'm not certain if conversions of classes if enough to base an entire release on, though.

Is there anything else about the Cryptomancer you don't like?
crypt talents sound good so can we bump them to new talents section. since occultist is generally incanter with object dependence drawback so it don't need conversion to spheres just couple of twigs and twists and it suits the sphere mold already. so any more questions on the topic.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

crypt talents sound good so can we bump them to new talents section. since occultist is generally incanter with object dependence drawback so it don't need conversion to spheres just couple of twigs and twists and it suits the sphere mold already. so any more questions on the topic.

The Occultist and Incanter are very different classes my dude. And this isn’t the thread to discuss this in depth.

[AlienFromBeyond]

The Armorist, maligned as it may be, also has "I'm cost-effective" as one of its major selling points. The Soulknife from 3.5e has "I'm cost-effective" as one of its major selling points. It's not an uncommon power.
It's not uncommon, but it's not popular or powerful. Armorist is considered by many to be the black sheep of the SoP classes, same for the Soulknife and Psionics. Hell, the Soulknife got a heavily suggested houserule later on to give it manifesting on top of all of its class features, because the class as it was doesn't have enough but DSP didn't want to buck the 3.5 Soulknife design too much with the initial release so people wouldn't have a kneejerk reaction to it. Being cost-effective just isn't interesting or fun design, especially not for the paltry amounts of gold something like a Cloak of Resistance takes (the cheapest scaling magic item you want).

[A.J.Gibson]

The Occultist and Incanter are very different classes my dude. And this isn’t the thread to discuss this in depth.

He does make a point that I've been thinking about myself, though. A number of people who have tried to convert the occultist into a spheres class by turning the implement schools into sphere schools. But if you go that way, you've rewriting 90% of the class features, so if you want to do a class that uses implements like an occultist, then it would make more sense to use an easier class to work with as the basis.

[khadgar567]

He does make a point that I've been thinking about myself, though. A number of people who have tried to convert the occultist into a spheres class by turning the implement schools into sphere schools. But if you go that way, you've rewriting 90% of the class features, so if you want to do a class that uses implements like an occultist, then it would make more sense to use an easier class to work with as the basis.
thanks sir and its how i can say more easy to write a universal drawback then use 2 or 3 pages to build a already existing class from ground up. war sphere has already have the required drawback to work ( galvanizing drawback) just bump it to universal drawback and sphere occultist is officially converted st spheres of power. so any more ideas to be busted

[Zsaber0]

Due to PF2 coming out does this mean you'll be moving up development of handbooks already in beta?

Also, a few questions about the Lattice Weaver specialization for the Incanter. Is it a supernatural or spell-like ability? While it says it's a free action to summon and dismiss your Lattice, what action do you need to use to reshape it, and how big of a Lattice can you create?

[A.J.Gibson]

Due to PF2 coming out does this mean you'll be moving up development of handbooks already in beta?

Also, a few questions about the Lattice Weaver specialization for the Incanter. Is it a supernatural or spell-like ability? While it says it's a free action to summon and dismiss your Lattice, what action do you need to use to reshape it, and how big of a Lattice can you create?

Adam made an announcement a while back saying he wanted to speed up printing, and that was before PF2e was announced, so there is already a desire there.

All Lattice Weaver abilities are supernatural. The lattice doesn't really have a specific shape or size, instead if is a resource you can use to enhance protection sphere abilities (and doa few other things with). Using you lattice with any ability is included in the action of using the ability.

[Zsaber0]

The lattice doesn't really have a specific shape or size, instead if is a resource you can use to enhance protection sphere abilities (and doa few other things with). Using you lattice with any ability is included in the action of using the ability.

The second paragraph of the specialization made me think it's another special ability of the lattice weaver.


...the lattice weaver gains the ability to call forth a floating mass of crystals made of solid force and to quickly reshape them to suit their needs. Whenever they use their lattice, the effect remains for a number of minutes equal to their incanter level, or until they use their lattice for a different purpose. The lattice can not be permanently destroyed (it repairs instantly by adding new crystals whenever what it is being used for changes), and the incanter can make it appear and disappear as a free action.

That makes it seem like in addition to all the things below that paragraph the incanter can summon his lattice and reshape it into all kinds of things like ladders, chairs, and other mundane things to accomplish simple tasks. My question about how large the lattice was and what action it used stemmed from that assumption.