1st Edition AD&D Bard

[twinklethetoes]

I'm going to be rolling a bard in 1st edition AD&D soon, and I was hoping I could get some advice re: stats and equipment. I'm pretty new to D&D, this is literally my first campaign. I've been playing a half-elven Ranger, but we need more fighters. We've not quite been getting slaughtered.

I'll be starting out at 3rd or 4th level. I'm not sure if the last game we got enough XP to level...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, and thank you.

[Thrudd]

How can you be sure you'll get the stats you need for a bard? They're pretty steep - you need at least 15's in Str, Dex, Wis, Cha, 12 Int and 10 Con. Is the DM just letting you have whatever scores you want?

You'll need to ask the DM if he will even allow it, first of all. It is a very optional and wonky class.
Second, you'll need to have the DM clarify the requirements. It says half-elves can be bards, but being a bard also requires dual classing which is normally restricted to humans. Also, dual classing normally requires a 17 in the prime requisite of the class you are switching to - but bards say you only need 15s in everything. My interpretation of that is that you need to declare you will be a bard when you first make your character (as you are), and it is a special case, not a normal dual class situation.

Assuming you get the required stats somehow, you need to be human or half-elf. You start as a normal fighter for at least 5 levels. After fighter level 5, and before you get to level 9, you will dual class into thief. You need to reach at least level 5 as a thief, but reach no higher than 9 and then you finally can gain the first level of bard and get bard abilities, which includes casting druid spells and having a chance to charm anything that can hear your music.

Also remember that dual classing means you can't use the abilities of the original class until the second class is higher level than the first was. So, when you change over to thief, you can't wear armor or use weapons thieves can't normally use or use weapon specialization (if your group was using that), and you won't gain any new hit dice until your thief level is higher than your fighter level. When you cross over into bard, I believe that these restrictions go away, so you can use your thief abilities and all fighter abilities and get new hit dice right away.

So if you are starting at level 3 or 4, you will still be in the fighter phase. It might be a while before you get to the bard college. Of course, maybe your DM has special rules about dual classing because you want to be a bard, so check with them first.

As an aside, if you're playing a ranger you are already better than a normal fighter in just about every way. You are a fighter that also gets a bunch of special abilities - you start with 2HD, you help the party avoid being surprised, you surprise enemies twice as often, you can track things, you do extra damage to almost all evil humanoid monsters, you can use all the weapons and armor that fighters normally do, and when you get to high levels you get some really cool followers and can cast both magic user and druid spells. If your party needs more fighters, you aren't doing them any favors by ditching the ranger. But you should play whatever you want to, you don't always need to make choices based on what the group thinks it needs.

[twinklethetoes]

I'm sorry, I should have mentioned I'm keeping the ranger, and I'm going to play both. Nguyen Sidebottom is going to be my primary character, unless or until something truly dire happens to them.

Yeah, I know I'm going to have to wait forever to get to play as an actual bard, but in the mean time we really do need another fighter and/or thief. Or current 'thief' is actually a monk. As for stats, the DM is letting us choose our stats based on the idea that all stats start at 16, and you have to reallocate from there. Me playing a bard was actually his idea.

One extra question: could I dual class early on and switch between levels? As in, for one level I'm a fighter, and the next I'm a thief, until I hit the max before I have to switch? Or do I have to level as a fighter to level 5-7 and then switch to a thief for another 5-9 levels? Or is this a question maybe to as my DM?

[Thrudd]

All 16s?! Wow, that's insane.

No on the switching between classes. At least if you play it by the book. Once you switch classes, you can never go back. According to the book, the bard has to start as a fighter- but maybe your DM would let you do thief first, instead. That doesn't seem like a significant change, to me. If anything it'll be harder, because you'll have less HP for your fighter levels.

[FreddyNoNose]

I'm sorry, I should have mentioned I'm keeping the ranger, and I'm going to play both. Nguyen Sidebottom is going to be my primary character, unless or until something truly dire happens to them.

Yeah, I know I'm going to have to wait forever to get to play as an actual bard, but in the mean time we really do need another fighter and/or thief. Or current 'thief' is actually a monk. As for stats, the DM is letting us choose our stats based on the idea that all stats start at 16, and you have to reallocate from there. Me playing a bard was actually his idea.

One extra question: could I dual class early on and switch between levels? As in, for one level I'm a fighter, and the next I'm a thief, until I hit the max before I have to switch? Or do I have to level as a fighter to level 5-7 and then switch to a thief for another 5-9 levels? Or is this a question maybe to as my DM?

I don't believe you have a clue about the first edition bard. You are doing it all wrong.

Bards begin play as fighters, and they must remain exclusively fighters
until they have achieved at least the 5th level of experience. Anytime
thereafter, and in any event prior to attaining the 8th level, they must
change their class to that of thieves. Again, sometime between 5th and 9th
level of ability, bards must leave off thieving and begin clerical studies as
druids; but at this time they are actually bards and under druidical
tutelage. Bards must fulfill the requirements in all the above classes before
progressing to Bards Table 1. They must always remain neutral, but can be
chaotic evil, good or lawful neutral if they wish.

[Lord Torath]

They must always remain neutral, but can be chaotic evil, good or lawful neutral if they wish.Wait, run that by me again. They must remain neutral, but can be chaotic evil? Is that statement missing a comma, meaning that Chaotic Neutral is okay, and so is Neutral Evil (along with Lawful Neutral and Neutral Good)? Or is Chaotic Evil considered "remaining neutral"?

[LibraryOgre]

Wait, run that by me again. They must remain neutral, but can be chaotic evil? Is that statement missing a comma, meaning that Chaotic Neutral is okay, and so is Neutral Evil (along with Lawful Neutral and Neutral Good)? Or is Chaotic Evil considered "remaining neutral"?

I think it's just missing a comma.

[Thrudd]

Wait, run that by me again. They must remain neutral, but can be chaotic evil? Is that statement missing a comma, meaning that Chaotic Neutral is okay, and so is Neutral Evil (along with Lawful Neutral and Neutral Good)? Or is Chaotic Evil considered "remaining neutral"?

They just need to be some alignment with neutral in it (the druids aren't so strict with them, I guess. Bards bein' bards."). N, LN, CN, NE, NG

With your DM's amazing superhero stat method, you should have 18 in Str (so you get a percentile roll as a fighter) and Dex. Int and Cha have no mechanical effect for bards (other than the effects that all characters have), so drop them as low as you can - that'll get you five extra point, right? Don't worry about morale and henchmen, 15 is a good score already, and bards are limited in how many henchmen they can have anyway, and you have to wait longer than everyone else - plus you'll be able to increase morale with poetry. Four points go to Str and Dex, then the last point either for Wis or Con. Adding a point to Con will get you an extra HP per level for all your fighter levels. Adding a point of Wis will let you get an extra 3rd level druid spell every day, once you are able to cast 3rd level spells. If it were me, I'd go with the extra HP, since it will be a long time before you can cast 3rd level spells (7th level bard, if the campaign even goes on that long). 16 in Wis is still great, you get 2 extra 1st and 2 extra 2nd level spells every day.

With 18 in dex, you can be a badass two weapon fighter. Since you can't use shields as either thief or bard, you might as well. Go with longsword and dagger. You can throw the dagger like a champ, too, so you might as well have some extras tucked away.

[FreddyNoNose]

Wait, run that by me again. They must remain neutral, but can be chaotic evil? Is that statement missing a comma, meaning that Chaotic Neutral is okay, and so is Neutral Evil (along with Lawful Neutral and Neutral Good)? Or is Chaotic Evil considered "remaining neutral"?

DERP,

Cut and Paste from PHB.

[MeeposFire]

They just need to be some alignment with neutral in it (the druids aren't so strict with them, I guess. Bards bein' bards."). N, LN, CN, NE, NG

With your DM's amazing superhero stat method, you should have 18 in Str (so you get a percentile roll as a fighter) and Dex. Int and Cha have no mechanical effect for bards (other than the effects that all characters have), so drop them as low as you can - that'll get you five extra point, right? Don't worry about morale and henchmen, 15 is a good score already, and bards are limited in how many henchmen they can have anyway, and you have to wait longer than everyone else - plus you'll be able to increase morale with poetry. Four points go to Str and Dex, then the last point either for Wis or Con. Adding a point to Con will get you an extra HP per level for all your fighter levels. Adding a point of Wis will let you get an extra 3rd level druid spell every day, once you are able to cast 3rd level spells. If it were me, I'd go with the extra HP, since it will be a long time before you can cast 3rd level spells (7th level bard, if the campaign even goes on that long). 16 in Wis is still great, you get 2 extra 1st and 2 extra 2nd level spells every day.

With 18 in dex, you can be a badass two weapon fighter. Since you can't use shields as either thief or bard, you might as well. Go with longsword and dagger. You can throw the dagger like a champ, too, so you might as well have some extras tucked away.

Honestly with the bard if you can get it high con is the best. With a high con you get that bonus on every fighter level once at least on your thief level, and for every bard level that has a hit dice after that. That is a LOT of bonus HP and much more than almost any other character. Personally I find there is a lot of ways to get high strength from outside sources such as spells or items but it is harder to give yourself such a large boost to your HP.

[LibraryOgre]

Straight 16s, point for point change?

My spread

Str 18/xx
Int 10
Wis 16
Dex 18
Con 18
Chr 16

And I'm a Half-elf.

I don't need Int, because being a Bard will give me bonus languages. I take it down to 10, and divide those other 6 points into Strength, Dex, and Con.

Then I get stupid.

I go straight fighter for 7 levels, because then I get a bonus half attack. I switch over to Thief, but when I can, I pick up thief-acrobat, because why the hell not? Then, at level 8, I switch over to Bard, and start really racking up the levels and hit points.

[FreddyNoNose]

Honestly with the bard if you can get it high con is the best. With a high con you get that bonus on every fighter level once at least on your thief level, and for every bard level that has a hit dice after that. That is a LOT of bonus HP and much more than almost any other character. Personally I find there is a lot of ways to get high strength from outside sources such as spells or items but it is harder to give yourself such a large boost to your HP.

I had a bard with over 130 hit points!

[MeeposFire]

I had a bard with over 130 hit points!

Yea it is one of those benefits that you do not realize just looking at the chart but when you do notice the sheer number of hit dice and the fact you get fighter con bonuses you realize you have a monster.

It is similar to how if you can get it you want to have a high con with a monk since it too gets lots of hit dice (small hit dice but a lot of them) which means you get a lot out of those extra HP.

[Mutazoia]

There is a very good reason the 1st ED Bard is referred to as the "God Bard". If your going to be starting this character as a 3rd level Bard, you are already going to have all the benies of being a 5th - 8th level fighter (including HD), a 5th - 8th level thief (including thief skills) and probably a few druid levels. And after all that, your level resets to 1 (your other classes technically "go away" but leave behind all their benefits), making you the most powerful 1st level character ever (with out cheating/proclaiming your character to be the son of 8 god, 3 demons, and very ornery hamster).

[FreddyNoNose]

There is a very good reason the 1st ED Bard is referred to as the "God Bard". If your going to be starting this character as a 3rd level Bard, you are already going to have all the benies of being a 5th - 8th level fighter (including HD), a 5th - 8th level thief (including thief skills) and probably a few druid levels. And after all that, your level resets to 1 (your other classes technically "go away" but leave behind all their benefits), making you the most powerful 1st level character ever (with out cheating/proclaiming your character to be the son of 8 god, 3 demons, and very ornery hamster).
which is cheating the game he is in. It would be getting all those extra levels. Might as well say I am starting a 3rd level magic-user but you know, he was an 18th level fighter...

[Lord Torath]

which is cheating the game he is in. It would be getting all those extra levels. Might as well say I am starting a 3rd level magic-user but you know, he was an 18th level fighter...twinklethetoes (OP) has acknowledged that he's building a character to progress toward being a bard, not that he'd start as one.