War 2/ Sorc 18 final spell list... Any good?

[samcifer]

So assuming I go sorc 1/warlock2/sorc 18, here's what I'm thinking of for a final spell list for my character. Since I'm still new to anything other than 4e, let me know if there are a few spells I shoould go for. Note that the character refuses to use spells that affect the mind such as charm, command, etc. as he hates those kinds of spells. Also, he's going to use Hex as often as possible, so I'm keeping the number of spells that require concentration to a minimum. As I'm playing a Favored Soul sorc, I have access to cleric spells. For Warlock, I took the Hexblade Pact for extra defense in armor and shield proficiency and can melee attack using charisma.

He's focused mainly on fire (a bit of a pyromaniac), and will take Elemental Adept - Fire, as well as Spell Sniper for feats as he levels up. For metamagic, my strategy is to take in order per each metamagic gain: Twin and Distant, Subtle and Quickened, Empowered and Heightened.



Cantrips:

Racial:

Thaumaturgy

Sorc:

Acid Splash
Fire Bolt
Poison Spray
Shocking Grasp

Cleric:

Guidance
Sacred Flame

Warlock:

Eldritch Blast
Green Flame Blade



L1:

Cure Wounds (set spell by being a Favored Soul)

R:

Hellish Rebuke (once per long rest)

S:

Chromatic Sphere (for variable dmg.)
Magic Missile (for the auto damage)

C:

Guiding Bolt (for giving disadvantage to target)

W:

Arms of Hadar (no other good choices among lv. 1 warlock spells besides the other 2 I took)
Hex (extra damage and disadvantage on a chosen stat)
Shield (via Hexblade)


L2:

(none kept during leveling up)



L3:

R:

Darkness (once per long rest)


S:

Counterspell
Fireball



L4:

Dimension Door
Watery Sphere (mass restraining and I love the imagery of it)



L5:

S:

Immolation (good damage and continual damage, plus the character loves fire)
Flame Strike (AoE fire and Radiant damage)



L6:

S:

Disentegrate (really good if twinned)

C:

Harm (great damage and non-lethal, so good if I want to take down without killing)
Heal (even better twinned)


L7:

S:

Forcecage



L8:

Sunburst (for mass blinding as well as damage)



L9:

S:

Wish (*sigh* ...too versatile to pass up)

[Sir cryosin]

I know Sorcerer only get so many spells but why all damaging spells? When you have Eldritch Blast and agonizing blast to add your cha to them.

2nd lv
Hold person, web, misty step, knock, blur

3rd lv
Haste, fly, slow stinking cloud, dispel magic, blink

4th lv
Banasiment, greater invisibility

[samcifer]

I know Sorcerer only get so many spells but why all damaging spells? When you have Eldritch Blast and agonizing blast to add your cha to them.

2nd lv
Hold person, web, misty step, knock, blur

3rd lv
Haste, fly, slow stinking cloud, dispel magic, blink

4th lv
Banasiment, greater invisibility

Knock seems kind of worthless, imo. It's really situational and doesn't do very much. Also, I've only played 4e and my guy is focused on combat, hence a lot of attack options.

[Sir cryosin]

Knock seems kind of worthless, imo. It's really situational and doesn't do very much. Also, I've only played 4e and my guy is focused on combat, hence a lot of attack options.

Why not spiritual weapon? Spirit guardians? Death ward? Scyring? Planar binding? Planar Ally? Holy Aura?

Also you have no concentration spells. Other then hex.

[samcifer]

Why not spiritual weapon? Spirit guardians? Death ward? Scyring? Planar binding? Planar Ally? Holy Aura?

Also you have no concentration spells. Other then hex.

I don't have others BECAUSE of Hex. Also, I'm new to any editions of DND besides 4th, which I only got to play occasionally, so I don't know what all to go for at end-game.

[gartius]

Hex is okay for the level you get it but then it will drop out of use as there are better options later on. Or if you take damage and lose concentration then you have lost your one and only concentration spell until you short rest.

Look into the utility options that sorcerers can bring - yes you use your spells primary for damage but treat them as a tool box. you have your damage spells but what if you need to deal with obstacles such as flight? it gives you that extra options that will help boost you further.

[samcifer]

Hex is okay for the level you get it but then it will drop out of use as there are better options later on. Or if you take damage and lose concentration then you have lost your one and only concentration spell until you short rest.

Look into the utility options that sorcerers can bring - yes you use your spells primary for damage but treat them as a tool box. you have your damage spells but what if you need to deal with obstacles such as flight? it gives you that extra options that will help boost you further.

Since Hex is a lv. 1 spell, I was planning on twinning it after casting it with a warlock spell slot as those refresh on short rests. I plan on being very conservative on using sp as well. Quicken will only be used whenever I need a lot of damage in a single round.

[samcifer]

Okay, made a few utility changes:

Cantrips:

Racial:

Thaumaturgy

Sorc:

Acid Splash
Fire Bolt
Poison Spray
Shocking Grasp

Cleric:

Guidance
Sacred Flame

Warlock:

Eldritch Blast
Green Flame Blade



L1:

Cure Wounds (set spell by being a Favored Soul)

R:

Hellish Rebuke (once per long rest)

S:

Chromatic Sphere (for variable dmg.)
Magic Missile (for the auto damage)

C:

Guiding Bolt (for giving disadvantage to target)

W:

Arms of Hadar (no other good choices among lv. 1 warlock spells besides the other 2 I took)
Hex (extra damage and disadvantage on a chosen stat)
Shield (via Hexblade)


L2:

Web



L3:

R:

Darkness (once per long rest)


S:

Counterspell
Fireball



L4:

Dimension Door
Greater Invisibility



L5:

S:

Flame Strike (AoE fire and Radiant damage)
Telekinesis



L6:

S:

Disentegrate (really good if twinned)

C:

Heal (even better twinned)


L7:

S:

Forcecage



L8:

Sunburst (for mass blinding as well as damage)



L9:

S:

Wish (*sigh* ...too versatile to pass up)


*edit* Changed Fly to Web because I gain wings at sorc. lv. 14.

[samcifer]

A major problem is that I can't find any examples of a Lv 20 sorc snywhere online, even through google, so all I can do is guess at a complete list of chosen spells for a max lv. character.

[Byke]

You haven’t provided much details on your party composition and how high your party will get. Aside from stating he is a bit of a pyromaniac. There isn’t much to go on, and it is difficult to create a list that is tailored to your needs.
Also taking Favored Soul gives you access to some of the best non concentration buffs in the game.
Below is just my opinion and my recommendations.

Cantrips: a little heavy on damage cantrips, could use some utility ones from Sorcerer. IE Minor Illusion

L1:

Cure Wounds (set spell by being a Favored Soul) – Healing Word is better

S:

Chromatic Sphere (for variable dmg.)
Magic Missile (for the auto damage)

C:

Guiding Bolt (for giving disadvantage to target)

EB does the same job and doesn’t cost you a slot. At most choose 1 but not all three (still don’t recommend it).

W:

Arms of Hadar (no other good choices among lv. 1 warlock spells besides the other 2 I took,)
Hex (extra damage and disadvantage on a chosen stat)
Shield (via Hexblade)


L2:

Web

L3:

Counterspell
Fireball



L4:

Dimension Door is a good spell but mainly used as a panic button, you can find items that do this for you. Polymorph or Banishment are more versatile.
Greater Invisibility



L5:

S:

Flame Strike (AoE fire and Radiant damage) You have fireball already for fire damage, if you really want another nuke Chain Lightning is better and it gives you some diversity in damage type. There is also Sunbeam which give you better persistent damage.

Telekinesis is an ok spell but it take your full round action, which makes it less appealing, works fine with Quicken. I prefer to take Animate Object (takes bonus action vs full action)

L6:

S:

Disentegrate (really good if twinned) – I hate all or nothing spells, especially at higher levels when you run into legendary resists. But this is one of those spells you either love or hate.

C:

Heal (even better twinned)


L7:

S:

Forcecage Not possible – Reverse Gravity is a decent substitute



L8:

Sunburst (for mass blinding as well as damage) I would rather have Sunbeam



L9:

S:

Wish (*sigh* ...too versatile to pass up)

So you “could” free up at least 3- 4 slots for cleric good spells. Death Ward, Mass Healing X, Revivify or some type of res….why else would you choose Favored Soul.

There are plenty of cleric guides. Feel free to peruse for the best spells that fit and as I said these are just my opinions based on my play style and experience, there is no best spell list, figure out what works best for you.

[samcifer]

Cure Wounds is a fixed spell you are assigned by being a Favored Soul (in the most recent update of the subclass on UA) that can't be changed for something else, sad to say, otherwise I'd swap it out for a stronger healing spell.

Yeah, Forcecage isn't for sorcs, so yeah, I must've flipped one too many pages there. :P Guess I could go Firestorm instead, or Finger of Death.

As for lv. 1s, Chromatic for versatility, MM for auto-hit, and Guiding Bolt gives disadvantage, so I can follow up on my next turn with a save-or-suck spell.

Sunbeam won't help me on my next turn. Sunburst's blinding lasts much longer and is therefore more useful.

Flame Strike... Yeah, good point. Maybe Polymorph would be an okay change there.

[Arnie82]

Okay, made a few utility changes:

Cantrips:

Racial:

Thaumaturgy

Sorc:

Acid Splash
Fire Bolt
Poison Spray
Shocking Grasp

Cleric:

Guidance
Sacred Flame

Warlock:

Eldritch Blast
Green Flame Blade



L1:

Cure Wounds (set spell by being a Favored Soul)

R:

Hellish Rebuke (once per long rest)

S:

Chromatic Sphere (for variable dmg.)
Magic Missile (for the auto damage)

C:

Guiding Bolt (for giving disadvantage to target)

W:

Arms of Hadar (no other good choices among lv. 1 warlock spells besides the other 2 I took)
Hex (extra damage and disadvantage on a chosen stat)
Shield (via Hexblade)


L2:

Web



L3:

R:

Darkness (once per long rest)


S:

Counterspell
Fireball



L4:

Dimension Door
Greater Invisibility



L5:

S:

Flame Strike (AoE fire and Radiant damage)
Telekinesis



L6:

S:

Disentegrate (really good if twinned)

C:

Heal (even better twinned)


L7:

S:

Forcecage



L8:

Sunburst (for mass blinding as well as damage)



L9:

S:

Wish (*sigh* ...too versatile to pass up)


*edit* Changed Fly to Web because I gain wings at sorc. lv. 14.

Not enough utility, and too many damage catrips. You honestly only need 3 to 4 damage spells as a sorcerer, and 2 to 3 damage catrips.

You need a good single target damage spell, and a large and a small area damage spell. The option for a 4th is if you want to cover more then 1 element. Using Chromatic Orb covers that and single target, so you really only need 3 damage spells.

For cantrips, you want 2 different elements, some control abilities, and maybe a close combat cantrip. With eldritch blast having a type that is rarely resisted you only need it, and maybe a close combat one.

[Byke]

Guiding Bolt gives disadvantage - is incorrect - give you advantage on the next attack roll

A flash of light streaks toward a creature of your choice within range. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 4d6 radiant damage, and the next attack roll made against this target before the end of your next turn has advantage, thanks to the mystical dim light glittering on the target until then.

So without up-casting it does an average of 14 dam, at 5th level EB does an average of 11 + 2x char (19). Now compare Guided Bolt to Deathward and 8 hour non concentration buff that can be twinned and can save 2 people from a deathblow.

As i said just giving you my opinion, but if you aren't going to take more at least 3-4 more cleric spells then you are missing on off the major benefit of FS, you might be better off going down another subclass path.

[samcifer]

Guiding Bolt gives disadvantage - is incorrect - give you advantage on the next attack roll

A flash of light streaks toward a creature of your choice within range. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 4d6 radiant damage, and the next attack roll made against this target before the end of your next turn has advantage, thanks to the mystical dim light glittering on the target until then.

So without up-casting it does an average of 14 dam, at 5th level EB does an average of 11 + 2x char (19). Now compare Guided Bolt to Deathward and 8 hour non concentration buff that can be twinned and can save 2 people from a deathblow.

As i said just giving you my opinion, but if you aren't going to take more at least 3-4 more cleric spells then you are missing on off the major benefit of FS, you might be better off going down another subclass path.

Well I wanted a blaster arcanist (as did the DM), so I went this route for a few healing options that can only be gotten by accessing cleric spells (bard is a no-go for me for character back-story reasons as well as that there's too many 'head games' spells in the class, and he hates that kind of magic, so he'll never use it.

Sadly, it's looking more and more as if a blaster arcanist isn't possible (at least not an effective one). : /

[Byke]

Sorcerer make excellent blasters. As you have two levels of Warlock you have the best sustained dam in the game. You also have a lot of options to nova with the proper MM.

What issues are you having? If its problem hitting then snag Bless. It's an outstanding party buff that you can use into higher levels and increases your chance to hit with EB/spells and increases your saves (12.5% increase i believe). Also look at getting a Wand of the Warmage or Pact Keeper.

As for you ASI the most important, I have found is getting Char to 20 first then any other feat.

[samcifer]

Sorcerer make excellent blasters. As you have two levels of Warlock you have the best sustained dam in the game. You also have a lot of options to nova with the proper MM.

What issues are you having? If its problem hitting then snag Bless. It's an outstanding party buff that you can use into higher levels and increases your chance to hit with EB/spells and increases your saves (12.5% increase i believe). Also look at getting a Wand of the Warmage or Pact Keeper.

As for you ASI the most important, I have found is getting Char to 20 first then any other feat.

ASI?

Also, I have little experience playing D&D, esp. 5e, and since it's easy to screw up a sorc in 5e, I feel that planning out my final level spell list will help me to avoid making any unfixable mistakes. Once I've settled on a final lv. spell list, I can reverse engineer it backwards and plan out my build better on knowing what to take at each level.

[samcifer]

The character premise is that he's a blaster sorc who loves fire and radiant damage (but mostly fire) who hates 'head games' spells and I want him to be an effective blaster who has a few utility spells to help him out in the times when fire either won't work (immunity, resistance or places where fire would be too dangerous to use, like in a fuel depot, for example) or isn't what is needed and a different type of spell is needed in a non-combat situation.

[Corran]

I've only read the op, so apologies if I am repeating the suggestion I am about to make.

Also, I know that this is not what you (the OP) asked for, but I dont think this idea will hurt (it probably wont help you either, but here goes).

Since you want to play a pyromaniac (gish?), and since UA is not out of the question, why not choose phoenix for your sorcerer origin?

I have some ideas regarding such a build (hexblade1/phoenix sorc19, gish-y; vhuman or tiefling), so if this idea interests you, I can share them.

[samcifer]

I've only read the op, so apologies if I am repeating the suggestion I am about to make.

Also, I know that this is not what you (the OP) asked for, but I dont think this idea will hurt (it probably wont help you either, but here goes).

Since you want to play a pyromaniac (gish?), and since UA is not out of the question, why not choose phoenix for your sorcerer origin?

I have some ideas regarding such a build (hexblade1/phoenix sorc19, gish-y; vhuman or tiefling), so if this idea interests you, I can share them.

I went Favored Soul for the healing spells and other fire spells Cleric offers. The ability to add 2d4 to any attack or saving throw roll is a great help as well.

[samcifer]

actually, Contagion is looking like a good spell to go for as I can use it to impose the disadvantages I want enemies to have. If I choose the Slimy Doom, they'll have disadvantage to save against it and be stunned every turn they fail a roll. Since my spells have either CON or DEX saves and stunned enemies grant advantage on attack rolls against them, it seems like the perfect spell for me to use.

...But the question become 'how common for enemies is disease resistance?'

[Byke]

ASI = Ability Score Improvement (+2 to a stat) vs a Feat at 4th and 8th level to max out your Charisma, thus delaying taking feats until later levels. For a caster I find upping upping your DCs and to hit/dam more valuable.

If you have uneven stats IE 17 in charisma, then taking a feat that give you + 1 in a stat may be more beneficial.

If your role in the party is to be a damage dealer and you have someone else to buff or control. Then you can definitely build for it and be effective.

The problem with building a final list at 20th is that there are a lots of spell you will use along the way that will be retrained for better spells. For example Sleep is the great spell you should have between level 1-5, but becomes less effective as you level up and should be retrained.

The Metamagic I would use early on for a blaster would be Empowered and Twin, low SP costs and ensures you can "maximize" your damage. At 10th pick up Quicken.

Utility spells I would use for a blaster to help him blast to the best of his abilities:

Cantrip Minor illusion - there are many great thread on this spell....google them. Using your warehouse example, guards are coming, create a minor illusion of a box and hide inside of it or make a sound behind them to distract them and move away.

1st:
Shield you go to defensive buff
Bless Ensure that he hits more, party will also love you.
Cure light Wounds (went back a reread FS, don't see where it say you are forced to take this, unless it's DM fiat...if so ask to have it changed to healing word!!!!!)

2nd:
Misty Step for escape or mobility to get to higher ground and get advantage on attacks. Can be retrained later

3rd
Counterspell

4th
Polymorph - because it can do everything :)
Freedom of Movement great 1 hour non concentration buff, never get pinned down.
Greater Invisibility

The rest of your cantrips and spells select to your blasting taste. Try to supplement other utility spells with items, ie Cloak of the Mountebank for Dimension Door.

[Byke]

actually, Contagion is looking like a good spell to go for as I can use it to impose the disadvantages I want enemies to have. If I choose the Slimy Doom, they'll have disadvantage to save against it and be stunned every turn they fail a roll. Since my spells have either CON or DEX saves and stunned enemies grant advantage on attack rolls against them, it seems like the perfect spell for me to use.

...But the question become 'how common for enemies is disease resistance?'

You have your concept of a character, build your spell list around it. In my previous thread I selected utility spells and metamagic which would allow me to be mobile and provide enough defense and mobility to get away from anyone and continue blasting.

[samcifer]

ASI = Ability Score Improvement (+2 to a stat) vs a Feat at 4th and 8th level to max out your Charisma, thus delaying taking feats until later levels. For a caster I find upping upping your DCs and to hit/dam more valuable.

If you have uneven stats IE 17 in charisma, then taking a feat that give you + 1 in a stat may be more beneficial.

If your role in the party is to be a damage dealer and you have someone else to buff or control. Then you can definitely build for it and be effective.

The problem with building a final list at 20th is that there are a lots of spell you will use along the way that will be retrained for better spells. For example Sleep is the great spell you should have between level 1-5, but becomes less effective as you level up and should be retrained.

The Metamagic I would use early on for a blaster would be Empowered and Twin, low SP costs and ensures you can "maximize" your damage. At 10th pick up Quicken.

Utility spells I would use for a blaster to help him blast to the best of his abilities:

Cantrip Minor illusion - there are many great thread on this spell....google them. Using your warehouse example, guards are coming, create a minor illusion of a box and hide inside of it or make a sound behind them to distract them and move away.

1st:
Shield you go to defensive buff
Bless Ensure that he hits more, party will also love you.
Cure light Wounds (went back a reread FS, don't see where it say you are forced to take this, unless it's DM fiat...if so ask to have it changed to healing word!!!!!)

2nd:
Misty Step for escape or mobility to get to higher ground and get advantage on attacks. Can be retrained later

3rd
Counterspell

4th
Polymorph - because it can do everything :)
Freedom of Movement great 1 hour non concentration buff, never get pinned down.
Greater Invisibility

The rest of your cantrips and spells select to your blasting taste. Try to supplement other utility spells with items, ie Cloak of the Mountebank for Dimension Door.

CHA is 18 with the racial bonus, giving me a +4. Torn between going for +2 CHA to max it out once I hit char lv. 6 (Warlock 2 / Sorc 4), or going for Spell Sniper feat so I can attack at long range as distance has played a part in a few encounters so far for me. Granted, I'm taking Eldritch Spear at Warlock 2 as well as agonizing blast.

[samcifer]

ASI = Ability Score Improvement (+2 to a stat) vs a Feat at 4th and 8th level to max out your Charisma, thus delaying taking feats until later levels. For a caster I find upping upping your DCs and to hit/dam more valuable.

If you have uneven stats IE 17 in charisma, then taking a feat that give you + 1 in a stat may be more beneficial.

If your role in the party is to be a damage dealer and you have someone else to buff or control. Then you can definitely build for it and be effective.

The problem with building a final list at 20th is that there are a lots of spell you will use along the way that will be retrained for better spells. For example Sleep is the great spell you should have between level 1-5, but becomes less effective as you level up and should be retrained.

The Metamagic I would use early on for a blaster would be Empowered and Twin, low SP costs and ensures you can "maximize" your damage. At 10th pick up Quicken.

Utility spells I would use for a blaster to help him blast to the best of his abilities:

Cantrip Minor illusion - there are many great thread on this spell....google them. Using your warehouse example, guards are coming, create a minor illusion of a box and hide inside of it or make a sound behind them to distract them and move away.

1st:
Shield you go to defensive buff
Bless Ensure that he hits more, party will also love you.
Cure light Wounds (went back a reread FS, don't see where it say you are forced to take this, unless it's DM fiat...if so ask to have it changed to healing word!!!!!)

2nd:
Misty Step for escape or mobility to get to higher ground and get advantage on attacks. Can be retrained later

3rd
Counterspell

4th
Polymorph - because it can do everything :)
Freedom of Movement great 1 hour non concentration buff, never get pinned down.
Greater Invisibility

The rest of your cantrips and spells select to your blasting taste. Try to supplement other utility spells with items, ie Cloak of the Mountebank for Dimension Door.

Our Druid already as Sleep. I currently have Magic Missile and Guiding Bolt for lv. 1 spells. (+ Shield and Hex for warlock spells).

[Byke]

CHA is 18 with the racial bonus, giving me a +4. Torn between going for +2 CHA to max it out once I hit char lv. 6 (Warlock 2 / Sorc 4), or going for Spell Sniper feat so I can attack at long range as distance has played a part in a few encounters so far for me. Granted, I'm taking Eldritch Spear at Warlock 2 as well as agonizing blast.

Char to 20 first.....then worry about feats.

[SharkForce]

i'd make room for spirit guardians. it's radiant damage. it's almost universally useful. it's efficient in general, and even more efficient if you get into a series of fights one after the other. it scales well, too. it's a staple cleric spell for a reason, and i really do think you should grab it.

anyways, you don't have anything for +2d4 to anything. bless is +1d4 to attack rolls and saves, guidance is +1d4 to checks, and in any event both are concentration so you can't stack them together even if they did work on the same rolls. you also can't stack them with hex, btw, because concentration.

i would agree you've got too much focus on nuking. pick a small number of versatile options (fireball, spirit guardians, sunbeam since it doubles as a blind, and that's probably enough) and run with that. if you need a bigger nuke than fireball, just cast fireball in a higher level slot for more damage... frankly, it'll stay competitive with everything short of meteor swarm.

after that, some good spells have been mentioned that you might consider. i would add that armour of agathys is a *very* interesting warlock spell; it will help keep you alive if you go close in for spirit guardians to do its thing, and it will help kill people that attack you. and it is non-concentration. it does go a bit counter to the fire/light theme, but it is pretty awesome regardless.

[samcifer]

i'd make room for spirit guardians. it's radiant damage. it's almost universally useful. it's efficient in general, and even more efficient if you get into a series of fights one after the other. it scales well, too. it's a staple cleric spell for a reason, and i really do think you should grab it.

anyways, you don't have anything for +2d4 to anything. bless is +1d4 to attack rolls and saves, guidance is +1d4 to checks, and in any event both are concentration so you can't stack them together even if they did work on the same rolls. you also can't stack them with hex, btw, because concentration.

i would agree you've got too much focus on nuking. pick a small number of versatile options (fireball, spirit guardians, sunbeam since it doubles as a blind, and that's probably enough) and run with that. if you need a bigger nuke than fireball, just cast fireball in a higher level slot for more damage... frankly, it'll stay competitive with everything short of meteor swarm.

after that, some good spells have been mentioned that you might consider. i would add that armour of agathys is a *very* interesting warlock spell; it will help keep you alive if you go close in for spirit guardians to do its thing, and it will help kill people that attack you. and it is non-concentration. it does go a bit counter to the fire/light theme, but it is pretty awesome regardless.

the +2d4 is for attack rolls or saving throws I make against enemy spells, so having +2 to +8 (probably an average of +5) to hit or save is very handy, plus it recharges on a short rest.

[SharkForce]

the +2d4 is for attack rolls or saving throws I make against enemy spells, so having +2 to +8 (probably an average of +5) to hit or save is very handy, plus it recharges on a short rest.

oh right, favoured soul ability. forgot about that. carry on :) :P

[samcifer]

I'm thinking of taking Blindness/Deafness (for the blindness to gain advantage) at lower levels. Not sure if it's worth keeping at later levels, though.

[SharkForce]

I'm thinking of taking Blindness/Deafness (for the blindness to gain advantage) at lower levels. Not sure if it's worth keeping at later levels, though.

not a lot has actually bad con saves, especially at high levels. i mean, not everything will have great con saves, but almost nothing is going to have a genuinely bad con save. you're probably looking at 1-3 rounds of blindness for any given target, if it works, before they save, at low levels... it might be worth it, but i feel like there are a lot of great spells you could choose, and blindness is only a pretty good spell.

[Byke]

You have received a lot of good advice in multiple threads. Seriously try it out, you have the basics covered at this point and you know enough not to make the major mistakes.

Test it while playing and form you own decision of what works best for you :)

[samcifer]

You have received a lot of good advice in multiple threads. Seriously try it out, you have the basics covered at this point and you know enough not to make the major mistakes.

Test it while playing and form you own decision of what works best for you :)

True, I'm only at character lv. 2 right now (Sorc 1 / warlock 1 in that order, and want to go to warlock 2 next, then back to sorc for the rest of my levels.) Next session is at the end of the month. I just need to start making use of Hex and Hexblade Curse as I forgot to use them in the only battle I've had as a hybrid so far.

[samcifer]

Okay, so I also have access to Bestow Curse, but it uses Wisdom for saving throws. Is Wisdom a common save for monsters/enemies?

[SharkForce]

Okay, so I also have access to Bestow Curse, but it uses Wisdom for saving throws. Is Wisdom a common save for monsters/enemies?

it's pretty common. that said, it is also a fairly unique effect in a variety of ways, as well as being versatile in the sense that it can do basically whatever you can persuade your DM it should be able to do, and while the save is fairly common, it is also a save that is sometimes *really* awful for some creatures :P

(and considering your DM doesn't seem to like "head games", may be the only wisdom save spell you can really make use of).

regarding contagion (just noticed you asked earlier)... well, check with your DM where he stands on dev clarifications, because it has been clarified (maybe even full errata?) that contagion does absolutely nothing until three saves are failed.

so... you're looking at giving up an early action, your concentration, and a fairly high level spell slot, to *potentially* have an impact 3 rounds later at the earliest. i can't really recommend it in that form.

[samcifer]

it's pretty common. that said, it is also a fairly unique effect in a variety of ways, as well as being versatile in the sense that it can do basically whatever you can persuade your DM it should be able to do, and while the save is fairly common, it is also a save that is sometimes *really* awful for some creatures :P

(and considering your DM doesn't seem to like "head games", may be the only wisdom save spell you can really make use of).

regarding contagion (just noticed you asked earlier)... well, check with your DM where he stands on dev clarifications, because it has been clarified (maybe even full errata?) that contagion does absolutely nothing until three saves are failed.

so... you're looking at giving up an early action, your concentration, and a fairly high level spell slot, to *potentially* have an impact 3 rounds later at the earliest. i can't really recommend it in that form.

Clarification. It's my CHARACTER who hates head-game spells, not the dm.

He might allow it as he's fairly liberal on things like that. Also, where is this errata on Contagion? It's not in the official errata that I've been able to find.

[samcifer]

Clarification. It's my CHARACTER who hates head-game spells, not the dm.

He might allow it as he's fairly liberal on things like that. Also, where is this errata on Contagion? It's not in the official errata that I've been able to find.

Okay I found it. *sigh* sick of everything I start thinking is good turns out sucking pure garbage. :( I think I'll stick with casting Bestow Curse as a lv. 5 spell instead.

[SharkForce]

Clarification. It's my CHARACTER who hates head-game spells, not the dm.

He might allow it as he's fairly liberal on things like that. Also, where is this errata on Contagion? It's not in the official errata that I've been able to find.

the not-quite-errata: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/06/13/contagion-effects/

thought you said the DM didn't like head-game spells, my bad...

[samcifer]

Revised spell list. Let me know if this is better. Still want to limit the number of concentration spells during battle, but took some utility spells by dropping a few damage spells:


Cantrips:

Racial:

Thaumaturgy (Tiefling)

Sorc:

Acid Splash
Fire Bolt
Light
Shocking Grasp

Cleric:

Guidance
Sacred Flame

Warlock:

Eldritch Blast (invocations - Agonizing Blast and Eldritch Spear - long range has occasionally been an issue.)
Green Flame Blade (for use with Hexblade Pact)



L1:

Cure Wounds (set spell by being a Favored Soul - can't be changed)

R:

Hellish Rebuke (once per long rest)

S:

Chromatic Sphere (for variable dmg.)
Magic Missile (for the auto damage)

C:

Guiding Bolt (for giving disadvantage to target)

W:

Arms of Hadar (no other good choices among lv. 1 warlock spells besides the other 2 I took)
Hex (extra damage and disadvantage on a chosen stat)
Shield (via Hexblade)


L2:

Blindness/Deafness


L3:

R:

Darkness (once per long rest)


S:

Counterspell
Fireball



L4:


S:

Banishment
Greater Invisibility



L5:

S:

Telekinesis


C:

Mass Cure Wounds


L6:

S:

Chain Lightning
Disentegrate (really good if twinned)


L7:

S:

Finger of Death



L8:

Sunburst (for mass blinding as well as damage)



L9:

S:

Wish (*sigh* ...too versatile to pass up)


-

The group has a full Cleric (trickster Domain) as well as an Artificer and a Druid (don't know which circle he took). Artificer has Sanctuary and Druid has Sleep, but don't know what their other spells are.

[Asmotherion]

I'd definitelly never pass up Alter Self on a Sorcerer/Warlock. Gives so many RP Options.

Pretty much what the others said. Sorcerer/Warlock is my Default Multiclass since forever (admittingly with a Dragon Sorcerer, but still). I never had to use any other agressive spell except Eldritch Blast except from RP reasons. Keep Fireball, perhaps Magic Missile, and you're good. Most of your Spell Slots will be used on:
-Quickening Eldritch Blast
-Casting Shield
-Hexing
-Casting other defensive spells you should probably pick like Globe of Invulnerability for example :P
...Still, that's the way I like to play my Sorlock, not a how-to guide. I just like to be the Utility-Defensive Mage, that is an Eldritch Blast Spammer in-Combat, and prefears to use his magical talent for more delicale things (out of combat aplications). I might Spawn a Wall of Stone now and then, but I'll save my presious and limited spells known for Teleportation Cyrcle and stuff like that :P

I'm also not sure if your version of Favored Soul gets wings (there are so many of those things I lost acount of them); if not, Investiture of Wind or a more traditional Fly is a good thing to have in any case.

Finally, I don't think you'll find Poison Spray very usefull, since you're exceptionally good in melee already, and you're better off with a reach weapon than investing a cantrip slot for it. It's better to use that slot to add Booming Blade to your Arsenal, to Quicken it, and then use Greenflame.

[samcifer]

I'd definitelly never pass up Alter Self on a Sorcerer/Warlock. Gives so many RP Options.

Pretty much what the others said. Sorcerer/Warlock is my Default Multiclass since forever (admittingly with a Dragon Sorcerer, but still). I never had to use any other agressive spell except Eldritch Blast except from RP reasons. Keep Fireball, perhaps Magic Missile, and you're good. Most of your Spell Slots will be used on:
-Quickening Eldritch Blast
-Casting Shield
-Casting other defensive spells you should probably pick like Globe of Invulnerability for example :P

I'm also not sure if your version of Favored Soul gets wings (there are so many of those things I lost acount of them); if not, Investiture of Wind or a more traditional Fly is a good thing to have in any case.

Finally, I don't think you'll find Poison Spray very usefull, since you're exceptionally good in melee already, and you're better off with a reach weapon than investing a cantrip slot for it. It's better to use that slot to add Booming Blade to your Arsenal, to Quicken it, and then use Greenflame.

Yeah, they get wings as a bonus action at sorc lv. 14. I took fire spells because my character loves fire (he's a borderline pyromaniac vigilante-type, but only hurts bad people), hence all the fire spells. I had taken Poison Spray to make use of my d12, but the revised list has Light replacing it.

[MrWesson22]

Have you considered going undying light warlock instead of hexblade? Adding charisma to radiant and fire damage seems perfect for your character concept.

[samcifer]

Have you considered going undying light warlock instead of hexblade? Adding charisma to radiant and fire damage seems perfect for your character concept.

It was revamped in the revised classes and now you have to go to Warlock lv. 6 to get it. I took Hexblade for the armor and shield proficiency as Favored Soul has no defense boosts or proficiencies at all as well as to have a melee option for more variety on ways to attack.

[SharkForce]

....web requires concentration, actually.

[samcifer]

....web requires concentration, actually.

Where are you getting that from? It's not in the official errata. And I can't find that ruling even with a google search.

[Asmotherion]

It was revamped in the revised classes and now you have to go to Warlock lv. 6 to get it. I took Hexblade for the armor and shield proficiency as Favored Soul has no defense boosts or proficiencies at all as well as to have a melee option for more variety on ways to attack.

What happened to Favored Soul? O_O What does he get?

[samcifer]

What happened to Favored Soul? O_O What does he get?

http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/UA-RevisedSubclasses.pdf

It's the final part of the article.

[SharkForce]

Where are you getting that from? It's not in the official errata. And I can't find that ruling even with a google search.

it's right in the duration. concentration, up to 1 hour. no errata was required, it's always said that.

[samcifer]

it's right in the duration. concentration, up to 1 hour. no errata was required, it's always said that.

Okay, it's missing from the spell card then. I've been using those and guess it was accidentally left off of the card. :( Well, Blindness/Deafness then instead.

[samcifer]

Okay, take #43. I decided to try going without lv. 7 or 8 spells and focused more on utility..... I can always cast one of my lower spells as a lv. 7 or 8 for greater oomph. I added even more utility and changed a few things to try to optimize my actions and bonus actions on each of my turns:



EDIT - Swapped out Polymorph for Sacred Weapon as it has better longterm use than Hex and the damage can scale up unlike with Hex.



Cantrips:

Acid Splash (COULD be replaced by Minor Illusion, but I have a hard time being imaginative under pressure)
Eldritch Blast
Fire Bolt (thematic)
Green Flame Blade (Thematic and useful as a Hexblade)
Guidance (mostly for a DEX boost when rolling initiative)
Light
Sacred Flame (Anti-cover option)

Shocking Grasp (Helps to escape, tempted to swap to Sword Burst in case I get mobbed instead as I have medium armor, a shield and have the Shield Spell)

Thaumaturgy (racial bonus as a Tiefling)


L1:

Chromatic Orb (variable single target damage I can scale up if necessary)

Cure Wounds (fixed spell granted to Favored Soul sorcs, can't be changed)

Guiding Bolt (gives me advantage to next attack and scale-able radiant damage)
Magic Missile (One of my favorite spells and auto-hitting feels so good sometimes)
Hex (extra damage)

Hellish Rebuke (good retaliation if Shield isn't enough to avoid being hit, and that happened the first chance I had to use shield - reusable and solves my dilemma on which 3rd lv. 1 warlock spell to take as I had forgotten I'd taken the Hellfire option on my Tiefling for thematic reasons, granting me a once-per-long-rest use of Burning Hands)

Shield (via Hexblade pact)


L2:

Mirror Image (decided on a defensive option that doesn't require concentration. Love the idea of 3 potential saves from taking damage)

Sacred Weapon (used to replace Hex at higher levels. Since there's so few good lv. 1 Warlock spells, I'll keep Hex for social uses at higher levels).

Scorching Ray (I know there's better options, but it's thematic and I love the versatility of the rays, plus I wanted another fire spell)


L3:

Counterspell

Darkness (racial, once per long rest and no, I'm not going to use the warlock invocation with it as I want a long range EB instead from Eldritch Spear since long distance attacks have been needed sometimes during this campaign.)

Fireball (AoE fire damage spell that can be scaled up)


L4:

Banishment
Greater Invisibility


L5:

Animate Objects (I could animate ball bearings or daggers/caltrops to attack enemies as a bonus action)

Mass Cure Wounds (better multi-target heal with good range)


L6:

Chain Lightning (meh... It's good damage and range, true, plus multi-target (potentially) but I'm not really excited about it. It's just the best I can do for an alternative to fire damage)

Disentegrate (Still like this,plus it can potentially bust down doors or destroy the magical weapon the evil tyrant is using against us)


L7 and 8: (I decided to try skipping spells for these levels, the lv. 7 non-fire options were meh anyways. Giving up Sunburst sucks as I no longer have anything to blind people, but having more utility options is a better choice, I suppose.)


L9:

Wish

[SharkForce]

polymorph is beasts only. elementals are not beasts, so no elementals. still quite an interesting spell, i'd probably make it your first level 4 spell because it's at the height of it's power as a buff at the lower levels (replacing a level 7 fighter with a CR 7 giant ape is insane; replacing two level 7 characters via twin spell, especially if the situation calls for just bashing things until they die and those two characters are not well suited, like a wizard that is out of spell slots, is even better. replacing a level 15 fighter with a CR 8 t-rex? not so good unless you're desperate and the fighter was about to get KO'd or something).

[Asmotherion]

Some good Key spells I'd suggest:

-Alter Self
1 Hour Duration, you can look like anyone, oppens up a lot of RP options, and with your Charisma (and especially if you have proficiency in Deception) you can pull a lot of things. Also from your other thread I think you mentioned you're in a boat(?) so the option of breathing under water might come in handy as well :P

-Armor of Agathys
Tepmorary HP that punish anyone that hits you in melee. Adds to your survivability, and since you're going to eventually be in melee (you're a Hexblade, and your DM is not going to let you ignore that, even if you do) it's always better to be prepared. Using your second highest spell slot means you can pack-up a lot of Cold damage for every hit, making hitting you more painful for the attacker than yourself. Might as well take it, it's right there in your Warlock spell list.

-Shield of Faith
Since you can take it, and buff your AC even more (or an ally's AC), it's always on the table.

-Spiritual Weapon
Both an amazing Spell, and seems fitting your Hexblade Patron RP to take it. Just a suggestion.

-Spirit Guardians
People multiclass to get this spell. As a Favored Soul, you get it for Free. I know it's consentration but... let me paint a picture: You, a Tiefling, Demonic in Face, use Armor of Agathis. Suddently, you are surounded by an ethereal armor of frost. Then, you use Spirit Guardians, and you are surounded by Fiendish (if you are evil) spirits that will stay by your side, like an army. Sword at hand, you point towards the enemy, and use your Hexblade's Curse; "Your Doom Has Come". Suddently, you are the Boss Fight of the Encounter :P

Now, about some other things: Are you the main caster of the group, or secondary caster? If you're the only caster, teleportation cyrcle and/or teleport are mandatory until you get Wish, since you'll need that fast-traveling option eventually.

That's about it. The rest is up to you really. Your spell list is very limited compared to other casters, so the idea behind it is:
A) Take a Main Weapon (Eldritch Blast+Agonising Blast)
B) Take Secondary Weapon (Hexblade+Weapon of Choice+Green-Flame Blade)
C) Find your Main Defance Mechanism (Your Armor+Shield+ Armor of Agathys+Shield of Faith. Using the Spell Shield as a reaction.
D) Find your Secondary Defance Mechanism (Taking the War Caster Feat to use Shocking Grasp as a Reaction. Then, be able to leave melee if you so choose)
E) Find your Nova Damage Option (Use Quicken Spell on Eldritch Blast to use it twice on the same turn on an opponent you have used Hex on a previous turn. Packs a lot of Damage)
F) Find your Mook Killer (Fireball)
G) Find your RP-linked options AKA spells you want to RP with.
H) Focus the rest on versality.

[samcifer]

Some good Key spells I'd suggest:

-Alter Self
1 Hour Duration, you can look like anyone, oppens up a lot of RP options, and with your Charisma (and especially if you have proficiency in Deception) you can pull a lot of things. Also from your other thread I think you mentioned you're in a boat(?) so the option of breathing under water might come in handy as well :P

-Armor of Agathys
Tepmorary HP that punish anyone that hits you in melee. Adds to your survivability, and since you're going to eventually be in melee (you're a Hexblade, and your DM is not going to let you ignore that, even if you do) it's always better to be prepared. Using your second highest spell slot means you can pack-up a lot of Cold damage for every hit, making hitting you more painful for the attacker than yourself. Might as well take it, it's right there in your Warlock spell list.

-Shield of Faith
Since you can take it, and buff your AC even more (or an ally's AC), it's always on the table.

-Spiritual Weapon
Both an amazing Spell, and seems fitting your Hexblade Patron RP to take it. Just a suggestion.

-Spirit Guardians
People multiclass to get this spell. As a Favored Soul, you get it for Free. I know it's consentration but... let me paint a picture: You, a Tiefling, Demonic in Face, use Armor of Agathis. Suddently, you are surounded by an ethereal armor of frost. Then, you use Spirit Guardians, and you are surounded by Fiendish (if you are evil) spirits that will stay by your side, like an army. Sword at hand, you point towards the enemy, and use your Hexblade's Curse; "Your Doom Has Come". Suddently, you are the Boss Fight of the Encounter :P

Now, about some other things: Are you the main caster of the group, or secondary caster? If you're the only caster, teleportation cyrcle and/or teleport are mandatory until you get Wish, since you'll need that fast-traveling option eventually.

That's about it. The rest is up to you really. Your spell list is very limited compared to other casters, so the idea behind it is:
A) Take a Main Weapon (Eldritch Blast+Agonising Blast)
B) Take Secondary Weapon (Hexblade+Weapon of Choice+Green-Flame Blade)
C) Find your Main Defance Mechanism (Your Armor+Shield+ Armor of Agathys+Shield of Faith. Using the Spell Shield as a reaction.
D) Find your Secondary Defance Mechanism (Taking the War Caster Feat to use Shocking Grasp as a Reaction. Then, be able to leave melee if you so choose)
E) Find your Nova Damage Option (Use Quicken Spell on Eldritch Blast to use it twice on the same turn on an opponent you have used Hex on a previous turn. Packs a lot of Damage)
F) Find your Mook Killer (Fireball)
G) Find your RP-linked options AKA spells you want to RP with.
H) Focus the rest on versality.

There's a druid (unknown circle), a trickster cleric and an artificer wizard in the group. I'm playing the role of a blaster sorc. My character's alignment is chaotic neutral (just does his own thing and doesn't worry about morality in general as he follows his own code of ethics).

No, we're not on a boat, that was just an example of needing range. We had to fight slavers on a beached ship that was leaving with some kids from our citadel and we had to rescue them before they were taken away. I was still a lv. 1 sorc and couldn't do anything as there were several fighters on the ship who could've slaughtered me easily, so I had to keep my distance. (A 300' range EB would've been REAL handy that time, hence my wanting to take Eldritch Spear as my second invocation.)

[samcifer]

Also, I took the Hexblade pact for medium armor and shield proficiency. Being able to melee is a bonus, but I want to fight from a distance as much as I can, so Armor of Agathys wouldn't do damage as often as Hellish Rebuke would. Only put in polymorph because people say it's so good, but decided to swap it out for Alter self. Your points on using it with high Charisma are good ones...

But Silence also might be a good choice as if I understand it correctly, I can cast it from a distance, stay outside, and hit enemy casters within it with my spells (not using ones where they have to hear me speak to them) while they can do nothing themselves as far as spells as virtually every spell has verbal components. As long as the fighter and/or barbarian in the party can keep them in there, they won't be able to really do anything spell-wise to save themselves.

[samcifer]

Swapped Polymorph for Sacred Weapon. Polymorph I only took as everyone seems to like it so much, but I'd prefer an extra-damage option that scales up and Hex doesn't increase in damage.

[Dalebert]

Honestly, if you don't pick a theme for a sorcerer, they all tend to end up with the same spells. Certain spells are really optimal. Part of having a flavorful sorcerer is being willing to make sub-optimal choices to fit your theme. I have two sorcerers right now and I'm trying to not have my 2nd one be a carbon copy of my first.

[samcifer]

Honestly, if you don't pick a theme for a sorcerer, they all tend to end up with the same spells. Certain spells are really optimal. Part of having a flavorful sorcerer is being willing to make sub-optimal choices to fit your theme. I have two sorcerers right now and I'm trying to not have my 2nd one be a carbon copy of my first.

Well, mine is combat-focused. There's a druid, an artificer wizard and a druid in the party as well as a heavy weapon fighter and a barbarian

[samcifer]

Strongly beginning to consider Haste since I have the ability to make melee attacks using Charisma and I use medium armor and a shield thanks to Hexblade pact.

[samcifer]

Okay, after several iterations that have taken me farther and farther away from what I picture the character being, I've revamped the spell list... AGAIN... to bring it back to where I want it to be. It's once more a heavy attack spell list with some defense and a small amount of utility. My character is a blaster and with a Trickster domain cleric, a moon circle druid (using Eldritch Blast even though it's not a legal spell for him, the DM isn't stopping him) who also has Sleep and Entangle for his spells, and an odd, rule-breaking artificer who has spells at lv. 1 (Sanctuary and Chromatic Orb), as well as the fact that the DM wants me to stick with a blaster theme, I've focused more on it as sorcs feel (to me, at least) as specialists. I'll take Magic Initiate for a few more spells and worry mostly about damage and defense.

Here's the list (and yes, I know many will hate it):

Racial (Tiefling): L1: Thaumaturge, L3: Burning Hands, L5: Darkness

Hexblade Warlock -

L0: Eldritch Blast and Green Flame Blade
L1: Hellish Rebuke, Shield, and Hex (to be replaced by Armor of Agythys at lv. 5)


Favored Soul Sorc:

L0: Acid Splash (2 targets), Fire Bolt (signature cantrip), Minor Illusion, Sacred Flame (variant damage and anti-cover), Guidance (initiative boost), Sword Burst (AoE if I get surrounded) - via Magic Initiate: Light and Mage Hand

L1: Cure Wounds (origin spell, can't be changed), Chromatic Orb (variable damage), Magic Missile (love the auto-hit feature), Fog Cloud (cover) - via Magic Initiate: Find Familiar

L2: Alter Self (disguise, stealth, charisma-based rping), Mirror Image (defense), Scorching Ray (can target one or more enemies)

L3: Melf's Minute Meteors (better extra damage than Hex with range and choosable targets), Counterspell, Erupting Earth (variant damage and makes in-timed difficult terrain), Fireball (signature damage spell)

L4: Banishment, Vitriolic Sphere (high variant damage, great range, but Watery Sphere is a fun spell too... Was hard to pick which one, but the VS has better reach and damages while WS does not)

L5: Mass Cure Wounds (healing for me and others)

L6: Chain Lightning (multiple targets, good reach and great damage even thugh it's not fire damage)

L7 & 8: (no spells)

L9: Wish

[samcifer]

Not the best spell list or the most versatile, but it stays true to the character and I admit that most spells seem off for him to use. He's not into manipulating minds or lots of stealth. He's a blaster through and through who has a rather unhealthy love of fire.