Anyone have a formula for when wishing for items become cheaper than buying them?

[sorcererlover]

A Stone of Controlling Earth Elementals costs 100,000gp. That means it costs 50,000gp and 4,000xp to make. Wishing for one would cost 5,000xp + 8,000xp = 13,000xp. A scroll would be 3,825gp + 13,000 x 5 = 68,825gp.

Since 68,825gp is significantly cheaper than 100,000gp, I realized once an item reaches a certain price, wishing for one is much cheaper.

Anyone here good at math able to derive a formula or a breaking point where using wish scrolls are cheaper than the item?

[Calthropstu]

A scroll of wish only covers the base cost of a wish. If you wish for something that requires more than the scroll covers, you have to pay the difference.
So the answer is: never.

[Menzath]

The best way to wish for items, is to actually have a persisted extended body outside body clone make a scroll of wish, and using the multiple people crafting amulet to use your other clones xp as well, to make a scroll of wish(since that requires two days to craft with the correct feat build).
Then use said scroll to make a ring of wish with unlimited charges.
I did the math once and if a level 20 makes it with 8 clones, and the CL on the ring is higher than 21 you can make low epic gear on the spot every turn.

Yeah so cheese clone item crafting.
Btw the additional crafting stuff is from the web content.

[sorcererlover]

A scroll of wish only covers the base cost of a wish. If you wish for something that requires more than the scroll covers, you have to pay the difference.
So the answer is: never.

You can have a scroll of wish custom made with higher XP so this is not true. Also you can't pay the difference with your own xp so that part is also not true.

[RoboEmperor]

Every 25gp increases XP cost by 1. 1xp cost for wish becomes 2xp, and since each xp costs 5gp, every 1xp cost for an item costs 10gp with wish.

So wish is cheaper by 15gp. You save 15gp per xp cost with wish.

Wish however has a flat 5,000xp or 25,000gp cost, and the scroll itself costs 3,825gp so to even out, wish's savings must be at least 28,825gp. 28,825/15 = roughly 1922xp.

A 1922xp item costs 1922 * 25 = 48,050gp

A 1922xp item with wish costs = 1922 * 2 * 5 + 28,825 = 48,045gp

So to answer your question, any item that is more expensive than 48,045gp is cheaper to obtain with wish than from the shop.

[Zanos]

A scroll of wish only covers the base cost of a wish. If you wish for something that requires more than the scroll covers, you have to pay the difference.
So the answer is: never.

When a wish creates or improves a magic item, you must pay twice the normal XP cost for crafting or improving the item, plus an additional 5,000 XP.
NC = Normal Cost
WC = Wish Cost
5 = GP value of 1 XP
3825 = 9th level scroll cost


WC = ((5000 + NC/25 * 2) * 5) + 3825
WC = 28825 + 2/5 * NC

Intercept Point is at:
NC = WC

So:

NC = 28825 + 2/5 * NC

5NC = 144125 + 2NC

NC = 144125/3 = 48041.6666667

Any item that costs more than 48041.6666667 GP is better to buy a wish scroll to acquire.

[sorcererlover]

Two people came to the same conclusion. One using conversion rates, the other algebra.

Alright thanks!

[Calthropstu]

Except the purchase price is double the cost, so it's actually x10, not x5 the xp cost, pushing the amount to purchase above the ability of crafting.

[sorcererlover]

Except the purchase price is double the cost, so it's actually x10, not x5 the xp cost, pushing the amount to purchase above the ability of crafting.

5x is the purchase price. I have no idea where you are pulling your numbers from.

[Zanos]

5x is the purchase price. I have no idea where you are pulling your numbers from.
Pretty sure it's a completely unrelated theory that he subscribes to where he insists the purchase price of items is twice the cost the books list because of his reading of related text.

Safe to ignore.

[Calthropstu]

Pretty sure it's a completely unrelated theory that he subscribes to where he insists the purchase price of items is twice the cost the books list because of his reading of related text.

Safe to ignore.

Purchase price = 2x creation cost, no?
If I am wrong, whatevs I can live with that. I don't open 3.5 books much anyways, and the whole xp cost thing was always retarded in my book. So glad pf got rid of that crap.

[gogogome]

Purchase price = 2x creation cost, no?
If I am wrong, whatevs I can live with that. I don't open 3.5 books much anyways, and the whole xp cost thing was always retarded in my book. So glad pf got rid of that crap.

If you didn't even read the rules then why are you telling people how they work? Please don't confuse other people with your comments when you have no idea of the subject matter at hand. Not only did you fail to read 3.5's item creation rules and pricing rules, or the wish scroll entry in the d20srd, you even failed to read the wish spell's spell description.

[Calthropstu]

If you didn't even read the rules then why are you telling people how they work? Please don't confuse other people with your comments when you have no idea of the subject matter at hand. Not only did you fail to read 3.5's item creation rules and pricing rules, or the wish scroll entry in the d20srd, you even failed to read the wish spell's spell description.

I actually have a good portion of the rules memorized. I may only check the 3.5 rules once in a while, but I have a fairly good grasp on them, and the 2x is definitely something I remember quite well... or rather the crafting cost was 1/2 the purchase cost.
I did misremember the line though, it does in fact say market price = 5x, not crafting price. Personally, I find that rather low... and why on earth(or any other world for that matter) anyone with any intelligence would not mark up the cost of the material components, and would only charge 5gp per xp which is something you literally cannot buy, is beyond me. I suppose magic items DO have a fairly good rate of return for the crafter IF they are the seller, but it's a horrible investment for an adventuring party.

[Big Fau]

I actually have a good portion of the rules memorized. I may only check the 3.5 rules once in a while, but I have a fairly good grasp on them, and the 2x is definitely something I remember quite well... or rather the crafting cost was 1/2 the purchase cost.
I did misremember the line though, it does in fact say market price = 5x, not crafting price. Personally, I find that rather low... and why on earth(or any other world for that matter) anyone with any intelligence would not mark up the cost of the material components, and would only charge 5gp per xp which is something you literally cannot buy, is beyond me. I suppose magic items DO have a fairly good rate of return for the crafter IF they are the seller, but it's a horrible investment for an adventuring party.

Word of advice: Don't operate from memory when you have the time and resources to look it up.

[Fouredged Sword]

I wonder if there is a similar break point for crafting. Assuming you craft a scroll of wish VS crafting a magic item yourself, where is the break point for gold and or EXP, and are they the same point?

[RoboEmperor]

I wonder if there is a similar break point for crafting. Assuming you craft a scroll of wish VS crafting a magic item yourself, where is the break point for gold and or EXP, and are they the same point?

Gold wise wish is ALWAYS cheaper, because all magic items created by a crafted scroll of wish only cost 1912.5gp.

XP wise wish is ALWAYS more expensive because it doubles the xp cost.

If we consider xp cost to be worth 5gp per point, 25gp item costs 12.5gp and 1xp which costs 17.5gp. For wish it's 10gp. So you save 7.5gp

Wish has a flat base cost to craft which is (5000xp + 153xp) x 5 + 1912.5 = 27,677.5gp

So for the savings to overcome 7.5gp, 27,677.5/7.5 = 3691xp rounding up.

3691 x 25 = 92,275gp Market Price
92,275gp/2 + 3691 x 5 = 64,592.5gp crafting cost
((3691 x 2) + 5153) x 5 + 1912.5 = 64,587.5gp scroll of wish crafting cost.