Best/Favorite 3.5 Overhauls, Fixes, Alternate Rules/Systems, etc?

[D20ragon]

This thread is born out of frustration with my google-fu more than anything else, so I thought I'd turn to the lovely playgrounders.

Anyway, the question I'd like answered is which alternate systems and fixes, homebrew or not (think Unearthed Arcana or Tome of Prowess (https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Tome_of_Prowess_(3.5e_Sourcebook))), are considered to be top quality? 3.5 has a lot of problems, but I love it dearly, and I'm curious how people address those problems, or just mix up their games.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Ummm... I like mine... Giants and Graveyards (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?329161-Giants-and-Graveyards-Grod-s-collected-3-5-revisions)is pretty all-encompassing, mostly relying on rewritten classes. On the lighter end, I think my revised Five Quick Rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?535084-Five-Quick-Rules-for-Fixing-3-5)fix works pretty well without being over-complex.

[D20ragon]

I'll be sure to check those out, thanks! :smallsmile:

[BassoonHero]

I'm working on a set of comprehensive house rules partly inspired by Grod's. The primary goals are as follows:


Mechanics should pull their own weight. The rules shouldn't be riddled with traps for the unwary, and powerful abilities should not be balanced by awful prerequisites.

Complexity must be justified. I love complex mechanics, but 3.5 has too many mechanics that are *slightly* different from each other.

Reduce "fiddliness", or choices with minimal consequence. These slow down the game and add cognitive load without giving much in return.


Some of the key changes I'm considering:

Combat

A guiding principle here is "competence by default". Any martial character should be capable of most forms of combat. Things like two-weapon fighting, unarmed combat, and tripping should not be gated behind unnecessary prerequisites. Specialization should come from bonuses, not the absence of penalties.


Everyone may freely use Str/Dex for melee or thrown attack rolls. (Str-based fighters have enough advantages without imposing a feat tax on their nimbler counterparts. And I'd like to see javelins get some use.)

You may take an action in the middle of a move.

A 5-foot step is a swift action.

You may move your speed while making a full attack, including between attacks. (This kicks in at level 6, at which point I think it should be fine.)

All iterative attacks are at a -5 penalty, noncumulative. (This doesn't kick in until level 11, at which point it certainly does no harm. The massive -10 and -15 penalties make for feelbad rolls.)

Unarmed strikes do not provoke attacks of opportunity. Any martial character can deal lethal damage with a punch. (Maybe keyed off martial weapon proficiency, or BAB, or just free for everyone.)

The rules for multiweapon fighting will be taken out and shot completely rewritten. Single-weapon fighting will no longer be privileged; you may attack with any number of weapons interchangeably without penalty. If you want extra attacks, then you begin to incur penalties/possibly require feats. Natural weapons and unarmed combat will no longer be special cases. (This will probably require some fudging for creatures with many natural weapons.)

Most combat maneuvers do not provoke attacks of opportunity.

You may feint as a combat maneuver.

You may reserve an attack to parry an incoming attack. (This is meant to help out TWF and sword-and-board types and to replace fighting defensively/total defense.)

Feats let you parry attacks on your allies, ranged attacks, and magical attacks.


Equipment


Simple and martial melee weapons are implemented using "qualities"; you pick a size and add one quality for a simple weapon and two for a martial. This should exactly generate most Player's Handbook weapons.

Exotic weapons have two regular qualities plus a special "exotic quality" like the spiked chain's ability.

Unarmed strike has zero qualities.

Simple weapon proficiency is free. Martial Weapon Proficiency is one feat. Exotic Weapon Proficiency is one feat per exotic quality.

Armor should be consolidated. There's no point in having a dozen types of armor when only three or four of them are any good.

Shields offer a blanket bonus to AC (including touch) and to Reflex saves vs area effects. They are also very good at parrying.


Skills

Skills in 3.5 are fiddly; everyone has a ton of skill points and there are too many similar skills. Picking skills is very hard for new players. And the payoff is generally unsatisfying: a handful of tiny bonuses. Skill tricks are great, but they're bolted on and make the system even more fiddly.


Skills are consolidated, ideally by half or more.
Cross-class skills are based on Pathfinder.


Players gain free skill tricks. (Maybe at level 1 and at even levels.) Examples:


Adroit (Acrobatics 4): Balancing does not cause you to become flat-footed. In addition, you may make an Acrobatics check to resist a trip attempt.

Ground Fighter (Acrobatics 4): You do not suffer any penalties to your armor class or attack rolls for being prone. When you are prone, you may move at up to half your speed. If you do move at least half your speed while prone, you may stand up as a free action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

Fleet of Foot (Acrobatics 8, Athletics 8): Gain +10-foot land speed.

Defensive Roll (Acrobatics 16): When you are struck by an attack that would reduce you to zero hit points or fewer, you may make an Acrobatics check as an immediate action to take half damage from the attack. The DC of this check is equal to the attack roll.

Sense Magic (Sp) (Arcana 8): At will, you may touch an object or creature and sense its magical aura. This ability works like Detect Magic, but on a single touched object or creature.

Identify (Sp) (Arcana 12): At will, you may identity a magical item (as the spell; no material component).

Pierce Illusion (Perception 12): When you would make a Will save to disbelieve an illusion, you may make a Perception check instead.

Blindsense (Perception 16): You can pinpoint a creature or object regardless of effects that conceal it from your senses (such as invisibility).

Sneak by Example (Stealth 8): When your allies make a Stealth check, they may roll using your effective Stealth rank at a -4 penalty. You may assist up to one ally per four ranks in Stealth. Your allies must be able to see you.


Skills work by default. You don't need Track to use Survival to track a creature, Trapfinding to use Perception or Thievery to find a magical trap, or Darkstalker to use Stealth to hide from a dragon. If a skill use is gated, it should be by a skill trick at most.

Feats

Large numbers of useless feats should be eliminated (Alertness). Many others should be free options (Track, Weapon Finesse). Yet more simply need a power boost and scaling (Weapon Focus, Dodge).

Examples:


Blind-fight: Flat reduction of concealment degree by one step. (No need to replace one roll with two rolls.)
Combat Expertise: Whenever you successfully perform a combat maneuver against an opponent, you gain a +4 bonus on your next attack roll against them within one round.
Deflect Arrows: You may parry ranged attacks. Treat projectiles as light weapons. If you parry a ranged weapon with your unarmed strike, you may catch it.
Dodge: +1 dodge bonus to AC, +1/5 levels.
Improved Unarmed Strike: Choose two weapon qualities. Your unarmed strike has those qualities.
Iron Will: When you roll a Will save, roll two dice and use the higher result.
Multiweapon Fighting: For each iterative attack, you gain a bonus attack with a different weapon.
Point Blank Shot: Negates AoO for ranged attacks. Not a prerequisite for anything.


Magic

Obviously, magic in 3.5 needs a massive nerf. There's a pile of broken stuff that simply needs to go, but there are a lot of recurring themes that could be addressed systematically.

The biggest single problem is that the best spells tend to be all-or-nothing. They fail their save and they die, or the equivalent. Or you cast Solid Fog and either they're out of combat for several turns or they discharge Heart of Water and you've accomplished nothing. Or you cast Invisibility and either they can see invisible creatures or they can't, or you cast Fly and either they can fly as well or they can't.


Most death effects should deal Constitution damage instead.
Most save-or-lose mind-affecting spells should have a progressive effect or offer multiple saves.
Most spells that impair mobility should allow an Athletics check to push through.
Mundane characters need nonmagical access to extraordinary senses.
Flight speed should be based on land speed and (at least at low levels) capped at a certain height.


In addition:


Casting defensively requires the Combat Casting feat and a caster level check.


I know that this wouldn't fix 3.5 balance, but it's a start.

[GilesTheCleric]

Other than Grod's rules (which look good, though I've never used them), you might want to check out E6 (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?206323-E6-The-Game-Inside-D-amp-D).

Personally, I think that 3e is fine (aside from dyfunctional fixes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?267985-Completely-Dysfunctional-Handbook-3-5), and whatever small houserules you like) so long as you and your group are aware that it's a very different game at levels eg. 3, 10, and 15. Adjust level limits or leveling speed in your game, and it should function exactly as you want.

[Dusk Raven]

Was going to make a thread asking about certain Unearthed Arcana features, not sure if I should still do so. Unearthed Arcana is where I get most of my alternate rules from, as it presents some stuff that I think is awesome and interesting - I've even ported the "no negative HP" (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/UA:Death_and_Dying) variant rule to Pathfinder games I run. Otherwise, while I don't play 3.5 much anymore, in favor of Pathfinder, I enjoyed features like the alternate class variants, or the alternate class features (the Barbarian's Whirling Frenzy alt rage is one I ported to Pathfinder as well, since I'd never seen anything like it in official PF material). In general, I feel it's an interesting and thought-provoking read, if nothing else.

As for BassoonHero's changes, they seem interesting. I disagree with some of the changes from a... well, for lack of a better term, a "realism" standpoint (fighting with two weapons effectively is extremely challenging in real life and really does require specialist training), but from a gameplay standpoint they look fairly solid. I especially like things such as reserving attacks to parry incoming attacks, as well as making skills similar to how they are handled in Pathfinder.

[radthemad4]

Skill groups by Kaelik: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=56277. Basically, everyone gets more skill ranks overall, but are also forced to spend them on different things. I made a somewhat flawed helper thing for it: https://cdn.rawgit.com/radthemad4/KaelikSkillGroups/07cd8067/Kaelik%20Skill%20Groups.html

- Everything is a class skill for everyone
- Free power attack and combat expertise
- Generally ignoring prereqs for most things
- Unlimited cantrips like in Pathfinder
- 9th level Spontaneous casters moving their spells known and spells per day up one row (i.e. new spells known at odd levels)
- Casting PRCs not losing any casting progression
- 1 feat every level (no flaws)
- 1 'Big Feat' at 1, Human (or strongheart halfling, or draconic human or incarnum human), 3, 6, 9, etc. What's considered a 'Big Feat' is a bit subjective but they can be either Scaling Feats (https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/3.5e_Scaling_Feats) (e.g. Whirlwind (https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Whirlwind_(3.5e_Feat)) or Two-Weapon Fighting (https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Two-Weapon_Fighting_(3.5e_Feat))) (note, scaling feat benefits should be capped by CR, so CR 3 monsters with 10000 HD don't get the higher effects) or particularly powerful feats like Product of Infernal Dalliance (https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Product_of_Infernal_Dalliance_(3.5e_Feat)) or Master of Maneuvers (Improved Grapple/Grab/Trip/Disarm/Bullrush + Defensive Throw)
- Metamagic uses the same level slot as normal, but your level needs to be high enough such that if the spell were higher level, you'd still be able to cast it. e.g. a level 1 wizard can't prepare Silent Grease, but a level 3 wizard could do so using a level 1 spell slot. A level 1 wizard could prepare silent cantrips using cantrip slots though.
- Metamagic cost reducers don't work
- Spontaneous casters don't need full round actions to use metamagic
- This system of automatic bonus progression: http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=495835#495835
- +Number items don't exist
- No WBL by level, instead using 'Magic Items by level (https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Tome_Magic_Items_(3.5e_Variant_Rule))'
- Things like teleport and scrying can be blocked by 40 ft of solid material
- All buffs and summons have maximum durations (i.e. as if caster level was 20)
- Base caster/manifestor/initiator/whatever else level is always equal to HD for everything for the purposes of actually using abilities
- Base DC for everything is 10+.5 level + Stat, which nerfs higher level stuff and buffs lower level stuff
- High BAB Iterative attacks never have a penalty greater than -5
- Power attack multipliers are banned
- Milestone leveling (i.e. not using XP)
- Occasionally just giving players free feats, spells knowns or other abilities that're story/campaign specific

I use a lot of Tome Material (https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Tome_Material) (and this Tome Errata (http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=51121)) (except the Fire Mage, Fighter and Barbarian which I find somewhat OP and the grapple rules which though simpler, feel incomplete and make it really easy for big monsters to Coup De Grace players. Book of Gears is incomplete and the 'Armor' and 'Magic Items' links there are a good replacement for it)

[Kitsuneymg]

A fix to 3.5?

Pathfinder + Path of War + Spheres of Power (no vancian casting outside of alchemy allowed). If you feel inclined, DSP Psionics and Akashic Mysteries are things that get thrown around as well, but I'd rather just use SoP for all my mystic needs. Consider using one of the various anti-feat-tax fixes available via google.

You could probably port SoP back to 3.5 if you wanted. It's not like that's complicated. The big winner in SoP is fixing magic so it's not the t1/2 powerhouse it is in the base game. In that case, all you need is to backport the spheres system (and classes, if you care), then find some of the ToB extra disciplines on these boards (or just use the ones from PoW with slight tweaking) and make it so archers can have nice things too.

[BassoonHero]

As for BassoonHero's changes, they seem interesting. I disagree with some of the changes from a... well, for lack of a better term, a "realism" standpoint (fighting with two weapons effectively is extremely challenging in real life and really does require specialist training), but from a gameplay standpoint they look fairly solid. I especially like things such as reserving attacks to parry incoming attacks, as well as making skills similar to how they are handled in Pathfinder.

I appreciate the feedback!

You're right about TWF: in reality, it's not a top-tier option. But I do deliberately want it to work in 3.5. A feat requirement is logical, but not (I think) necessary. Under this system, a character using the baseline TWF rules probably isn't wielding two swords -- that player would want to invest feats into it. Rather, the baseline rules are meant for the guy with the sword and shield, or the glaive and unarmed strike.

These rules are unfinished and untested; I hope to change that.

[D20ragon]

I've heard good things about SoP in the past, might be time to give it a go.