[Spheres of Power] The Auspician's Handbook: Let Fate be my love henceforth!

[Jeff the Green]

Willkommen to Nietzsche's favorite playtest, The Auspician's Handbook (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KY57H-XGD_QOlZCmbGygRQEEK2f4c3AsZINL3VKDv1A/edit?usp=sharing)! I am Drop Dead Studio's newest writer and the proud papa of the newest sphere handbook.

Inside you will find content devoted to the Fate sphere, including:

Archetypes for Inquisitor, Mageknight, Paladin, and Swashbuckler to manipulate luck and fate.
A new type of talent, Motifs, that channel universal archetypes to tug at the warp and weft of destiny's tapestry.
New Words and Consecrations to diversify your auspician's repertoire.
New Feats, including the new Chance feat category.
Two new monsters, the cù-sìth and the mau.
Advice to DMs who want alignment to take a more prominent or less intrusive role in their Spheres of Power campaigns.


Please feel free to comment on the document or here. The more specific the comments the better because that way I can address them. "This is awesome!" is appreciated, but "This could be made better by X, Y, and Z" helps me make it better. I'll be reading every comment even if I'm not able to respond to them.

[khadgar567]

threat title is wrong sir. its spheres not sheres of power

[Jeff the Green]

:smallredface:

Thank you for catching that. This is indeed not a book about wondrous scissors.

[khadgar567]

:smallredface:

Thank you for catching that. This is indeed not a book about wondrous scissors.
small question why give harbinger ( a path of war class) low casting via feat. I am just curious since i want to see this as omen for eventual path of war spheres of might and power fusion book so care to answer the question please?

[Jeff the Green]

small question why give harbinger ( a path of war class) low casting via feat. I am just curious since i want to see this as omen for eventual path of war spheres of might and power fusion book so care to answer the question please?

That's really a question to ask Adam Meyers (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?509636-Spheres-of-Power-Ask-Me-Anything-2), the bossman here at Drop Dead Studios. As far as I know, however, such a project is not in the works or likely to be in the future. While OGL allows us to work with each other's projects to some extent, Path of War and the Spheres projects are by two different companies with two different philosophies. I included Hexenmeister for three reasons: A) Path of War is popular and making the two at least compatible allows people to combine their favorite products; B) Harbinger is my favorite PoW class and has a theme compatible with both Fate and the Grim Disciple specifically; and C) I wanted to use the name somehow.

There is at least one other piece of Spheres of Power material that uses Path of War: the Warshifter, a Shifter archetype that gets maneuvers.

[EldritchWeaver]

I'm too busy at the moment to check the book out :smallfrown:, so a quick question here: Does the book include a way to reroll dice? Can you prevent nat 1 fails (maybe in exxchange of no nat 20 success)?

[khadgar567]

I'm too busy at the moment to check the book out :smallfrown:, so a quick question here: Does the book include a way to reroll dice? Can you prevent nat 1 fails (maybe in exxchange of no nat 20 success)?
yep you have a talent for it

[AlienFromBeyond]

B) Harbinger is my favorite PoW class and has a theme compatible with both Fate and the Grim Disciple specifically
You make Malefex sad :smallfrown:.

[Mithril Leaf]

I feel like the motifs in general are not super useful. There's a ton of them, the bonuses are both situational and weak, they all cost a spell point, and they barely scale.

The idea is super cool though. Allow me to toss an idea your way:

Still keep them specific to a single concept, but drop the spell point cost, and make them stronger, but you can only have a limited motif total on you at any given time.

EDIT: Plus insight bonuses are super over-represented in DSP and DDS products. If you really want to keep the spell point cost, maybe make it a luck bonus.

[Jeff the Green]

I feel like the motifs in general are not super useful. There's a ton of them, the bonuses are both situational and weak, they all cost a spell point, and they barely scale.

The idea is super cool though. Allow me to toss an idea your way:

Still keep them specific to a single concept, but drop the spell point cost, and make them stronger, but you can only have a limited motif total on you at any given time.

EDIT: Plus insight bonuses are super over-represented in DSP and DDS products. If you really want to keep the spell point cost, maybe make it a luck bonus.

So. Dropping spell point cost isn't an option. There is a blanket prohibition in SoP products against free effects with a duration. I disagree on power. Their purpose is not as a buff but as a panic button. You use the tower to ruin a fighter's day; the ability to slowly destroy objects is gravy.

As for making them luck bonuses, that is what they originally were. Unfortunately, someone pointed out Fate's Favored (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/faith-traits/fate-s-favored/). Given the small bonuses given by the base effects, it'd become de rigeur for any caster using motifs. Untyped bonuses are problematic, so insight was the next best thing. It's not my first choice at all, so solutions would be much appreciated.

[Mehangel]

As for making them luck bonuses, that is what they originally were. Unfortunately, someone pointed out Fate's Favored (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/faith-traits/fate-s-favored/). Given the small bonuses given by the base effects, it'd become de rigeur for any caster using motifs. Untyped bonuses are problematic, so insight was the next best thing. It's not my first choice at all, so solutions would be much appreciated.

I actually don't have an issue with motif talents giving luck bonuses (just as long as the bonuses are small and/or very slow scaling such as a +1 bonus +1 per 10 caster levels). The main issue I had with motif talents being luck bonuses before was that there was a line you included about luck bonuses from motif talents stacking with other motif bonuses.

[EldritchWeaver]

As for making them luck bonuses, that is what they originally were. Unfortunately, someone pointed out Fate's Favored (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/faith-traits/fate-s-favored/). Given the small bonuses given by the base effects, it'd become de rigeur for any caster using motifs. Untyped bonuses are problematic, so insight was the next best thing. It's not my first choice at all, so solutions would be much appreciated.

Why do luck bonuses stack in the first place? That's not how it works in PF.

[Jeff the Green]

Why do luck bonuses stack in the first place? That's not how it works in PF.

It was originally a specific rule that motif bonuses stacked with each other. It was taken out for obvious reasons.

[EldritchWeaver]

Then you could change insight back to luck, I suppose.

[Mithril Leaf]

So. Dropping spell point cost isn't an option. There is a blanket prohibition in SoP products against free effects with a duration. I disagree on power. Their purpose is not as a buff but as a panic button. You use the tower to ruin a fighter's day; the ability to slowly destroy objects is gravy.

I'll accept they are going to not be buffs but instead highly specific, one off, expensive panic buttons. There's still 21 of them currently, each one covering a single specific issues. Can we at least be able to get two motifs for each talent spent?

[EldritchWeaver]

I'll accept they are going to not be buffs but instead highly specific, one off, expensive panic buttons. There's still 21 of them currently, each one covering a single specific issues. Can we at least be able to get two motifs for each talent spent?

From a general point of view, I want a talent be useful enough that it doesn't feel like waste when I actually take it instead using a wand for it. So the more specific a use is, the more common the situation needs to be. Otherwise collecting several uses like Life does would be more to my liking. There some talents provide a generic benefit (increase healing by 1d8) and specific benefits (can treat some stuff like diseases).

[Florian]

I wanted to use the name somehow.

Please don´t.

[EldritchWeaver]

Please don´t.

What is the problem exactly? Maybe, that the German version is already using that name for sorcerer?

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Please don´t.

Why? Hexenmeister is a cool name!

Regarding the motifs, I don't think stacking was the problem so much as Fate's Favored being mandatory for anyone using them if they were luck bonuses. Agreed on needing to either change them back or increase the scaling though. Would love to put together a build combining them with the Rajah and their Title veils to make the truest namer ever.

[Florian]

Why? Hexenmeister is a cool name!

Hexenmeister is the german translation for the sorcerer class and also a bit of a problematic term as it means "a male witch".

[Jeff the Green]

Minor update to Inevitable: I added a new 1st-level deed and changed the deed that referenced judgement.

Regarding motifs: I see your point, EldritchWeaver and Mithril Leaf. I'm not entirely certain I agree, but I'll keep thinking about it. If anyone else wants to weigh in, I'd appreciate it.

[EldritchWeaver]

Regarding motifs: I see your point, EldritchWeaver and Mithril Leaf. I'm not entirely certain I agree, but I'll keep thinking about it. If anyone else wants to weigh in, I'd appreciate it.

What is the argument to make talents mostly useless when not used via magic items or temporary talent access?

[Ualaa]

If an emergency button is really situational, and thus not that likely to come up often in actual play, I'd assume no one at my table would ever take it. Or maybe, if they had a build that was vulnerable to only specific conditions then perhaps they might occasionally take those.

I'd be more inclined to either take something that helped in multiple areas, increasing the chances that it would be useful on a regular basis, or if it were to remain very specific then to skip it entirely.

[Mezzaluna]

I'm also not really sold on the idea of motifs. They're generally unexciting, being mostly flat numerical bonuses, and also too specific for me to ever consider spending a whole talent on them. If I was a Fate sphere specialist with talents to spare I'd sooner spend them out into other spheres and refluff the abilities to be fate themed than put spare talents into motifs.

Not to say they're useless, there are obviously situations each can save you on, but in terms of both spell point cost and opportunity cost when choosing talents, they fall behind.


So. Dropping spell point cost isn't an option. There is a blanket prohibition in SoP products against free effects with a duration.

This is a strange claim because there are a decent handful of things in other spheres that do this. Light sphere most notably has things like Guiding Light and Irradiance which have an effect that lasts 1 minute per CL for free without the need for bright light, and Glory for any one bright light talent to be active for free.

Divination has Nature Sense, which is basically a self-targeting Motif with better scaling, and it's free.

Even though these effects aren't as strong as the motifs, there clearly isn't a blanket ban on the concept.

[A.J.Gibson]

I do agree that motifs could be stronger, and have less saving throw bonuses. I'd like to see more that give character's unique abilities as well. I'm not a big fan of making them last a long time without a spell point cost - abilities either have a resource cost or an action cost, and frankly there are enough spheres with minute per CL effects already. I think just rewriting some of them with a boost to power level (+1 per 10 CL is really weak for just about anything that isn't an attack roll) and giving them more powerful discard effects would be sufficient.

[ATHATH]

You could just change the Motifs back into luck bonuses and include a clause that forbids them from being combined/affected by Fate's Favored.

Making them give untyped bonuses is also an option (which you dismissed above, but didn't really give a reason for doing so except for untyped bonuses being "problematic"), especially since they're so weak (according to the other posters in this thread).

[Mehangel]

You could just change the Motifs back into luck bonuses and include a clause that forbids them from being combined/affected by Fate's Favored.

Just as long as the luck bonuses are small and dont stack with each other, I don't see why allowing Fate's Favored to affect them should be an issue.

[AmberVael]

So. Dropping spell point cost isn't an option. There is a blanket prohibition in SoP products against free effects with a duration.


This is a strange claim because there are a decent handful of things in other spheres that do this. Light sphere most notably has things like Guiding Light and Irradiance which have an effect that lasts 1 minute per CL for free without the need for bright light, and Glory for any one bright light talent to be active for free.

It's a little more complicated than 'free effects with a duration.' Basically, costless buffs with a duration (and some other effects) are something to be avoided, because a caster can just spam it on all their allies and refresh it whenever necessary. While this can be a problem of unintended power, the concern is just as much about simplification and logistics - if you can really use it on everyone reliably, the design should take that into account to streamline the player experience and make it easier to balance.

Costless motifs as they are would fall afoul of this, promoting a buff spam behavior, while the other effects you mention don't. Guiding Light and Irradiance aren't something you can or want to costlessly spam, as they're effects that target enemies and require combat actions to perform. Glory, on the other hand, avoids the issue by utilizing selfish design and a persistent duration: it only has its effect on you, and lasts however long you want to keep it going since you don't need to concentrate. Glory will function endlessly, but the design means it isn't something you're casting endlessly, let alone on anyone else.

[Jeff the Green]

It's a little more complicated than 'free effects with a duration.' Basically, costless buffs with a duration (and some other effects) are something to be avoided, because a caster can just spam it on all their allies and refresh it whenever necessary. While this can be a problem of unintended power, the concern is just as much about simplification and logistics - if you can really use it on everyone reliably, the design should take that into account to streamline the player experience and make it easier to balance.

Costless motifs as they are would fall afoul of this, promoting a buff spam behavior, while the other effects you mention don't. Guiding Light and Irradiance aren't something you can or want to costlessly spam, as they're effects that target enemies and require combat actions to perform. Glory, on the other hand, avoids the issue by utilizing selfish design and a persistent duration: it only has its effect on you, and lasts however long you want to keep it going since you don't need to concentrate. Glory will function endlessly, but the design means it isn't something you're casting endlessly, let alone on anyone else.

Thank you. I think I got a simplified version of that explaining why motifs couldn't be costless and overgeneralized it. (Not having played with Light and only skimmed for DMing/research doesn't help.)


Just as long as the luck bonuses are small and dont stack with each other, I don't see why allowing Fate's Favored to affect them should be an issue.

It's less balance than creating an all-but-mandatory build option. Fate's Favored is already a phenomenal trait. I don't want to make it de rigeur.

[Jeff the Green]

Update:
In response to a (just) savaging, I've completely revamped the Serendip. It is now a URogue archetype and rogues can select (chance) feats instead of rogue talents. Parzivalian knight also finally have something they can actually use instead of channel energy.

[pilvento]

Yessss fate handbook is here! and it looks good!

Here is an idea from our group where we already have some homebrew talents of our own.

Since the fate sphere is strongly related to alignment we like to our characters to focus on those talents linked to theirs, this of course limits us a lot but we still like it that way. For example a lawfull evil cleric would not have the FREEDOM WORD talent but instead something like this...

Prision (word)

The target drops to his knees and is pinned for as long as you concentrate (Will negates). The target is allowed a new Will save each round to end this effect early. You may always spend a spell point as a free action to allow this word to continue for 1 round per caster level without concentration.

Having words that cancel each other is a good way to mantain the multiple corners of the alignment axis a constant theme within the sphere.

Hope this inspires you a bit...

[khadgar567]

you know its more like shackles to me were one word from divine makes sinner kneel before his presence prison wigt me its mass counter part

[EldritchWeaver]

Regarding motifs, I've thought of a more radical idea to keep them effect-wise limited, but still not being that wasteful for a talent. Instead of requiring for each motif a single talent, require only one general motif talent, which merely grants the capability to use motifs. The actual effects are assigned to other Fate talents. You get on motif ability for one Fate talent. Not sure if the particular motif should be assigned to a particular Fate talent, as this would require a 1:1 relationship with motifs and Fate talents. Also maybe someone likes a particular motif and doesn't like the associated Fate talent. So it seems preferable, if you can choose the motif you want. If they are roughly balanced in power, that shouldn't be much of a problem. Maybe allow then a Fate talent, which only grants 3 motifs.

[Jeff the Green]

Moderate update time:

Half the motifs have been written. Most give more interesting effects than numerical bonuses, and those that do give bonuses scale better.
The inevitable now has a player-controlled means of regaining kismet and a couple deeds were fixed.
Several issues in wording were fixed.


Next I will be adding magic item rules for motifs.


Yessss fate handbook is here! and it looks good!

Here is an idea from our group where we already have some homebrew talents of our own.

Since the fate sphere is strongly related to alignment we like to our characters to focus on those talents linked to theirs, this of course limits us a lot but we still like it that way. For example a lawfull evil cleric would not have the FREEDOM WORD talent but instead something like this...

Prision (word)

The target drops to his knees and is pinned for as long as you concentrate (Will negates). The target is allowed a new Will save each round to end this effect early. You may always spend a spell point as a free action to allow this word to continue for 1 round per caster level without concentration.

Having words that cancel each other is a good way to mantain the multiple corners of the alignment axis a constant theme within the sphere.

Hope this inspires you a bit...

That is definitely something I will consider. I am brushing up against 20,000 words, though.

[Giddonihah]

I'm a bit worried bout the balance of Reversal.
It is cheap and easy to get, it has no save, few things are immune to it and it has several large effects on the game.

1. It allows for impossible to lose situations. Such as when your AC is high enough the enemy needs a 20 to hit, shame they cant roll a 20 anymore.
2. Many monsters can no longer ever crit as they needed a 20.
3. It effects all d20 rolls both enemy and ally.

[Cybershark]

I was going to post a long-winded mathematical breakdown of the Wheel because the way it was written made me think the bonus increased from +1 -> +2+1d4 -> +3+2d4 but after rereading it again I got it wrong, the d4s just make it apply to different categories and they can stack. The math checks out too. Thought I had sniffed out something broken but it ends up being fine, woops!

[EldritchWeaver]

I'm a bit worried bout the balance of Reversal.
It is cheap and easy to get, it has no save, few things are immune to it and it has several large effects on the game.

1. It allows for impossible to lose situations. Such as when your AC is high enough the enemy needs a 20 to hit, shame they cant roll a 20 anymore.
2. Many monsters can no longer ever crit as they needed a 20.
3. It effects all d20 rolls both enemy and ally.

I agree that since there are no default saves, it should be checked if talents do need a save. I didn't take note Reversal of in need of a save, but you don't spend SP to affect enemies after all.