Is this poor DMing or what?

[Jerrykhor]

There was one session, we decided to use our Well of Many Worlds. It is a magic item that is a large handkerchief that opens up into a portal that leads to a random place of the DM's choice, but this version is homebrewed to connect to another similar Well of which the current location is unknown. But we decided to take the risk anyway.

We ended up inside a huge bank vault, full of gold and treasure. While my party members were busy failing their Sanity checks from going through the portal (I was the only one that passed), I spend most of the time looting the gold pieces. After about 2-3 handfuls, the DM just told me, "Well, I can't let you have all the gold here!" I asked him whats stopping me from taking the gold? Because I have Hewards Handy Haversack, and I could take a lot of them before I become over encumbered. One of my party member have a Haversack too. He couldn't answer me, and simply refused to allow me to loot any more. For the sake of not interrupting the session, I chose not to argue with him.

He is generally not a bad DM, in fact, he is a good, experienced DM, though he is known to 'wing it' a lot and do little preparation. But this is quite ridiculous. Abusing DM fiat simply because he is not prepared to let his players become instant millionaires? Why put us in a bank vault then?

What do you guys think? Is he right, or should he have done better?

[Quoxis]

Your GM sounds like an ok guy that either didn't think things through or is up to something.

A good GM could've come up with a reason, like "you try to loot, but most of the gold is behind invisible walls (homebrew permanent forcecage or something), so all you can take is X gp" or "the piles of gold have big runes on them, runes that make the air around them buzz a little; it might be better not to touch them" or anything like that. I've never DM'd, still i came up with bull**** reasons, so for an experienced guy it shouldn't be difficult. Maybe he got caught up in the moment, or maybe there's a meaning hidden in the phrasing - "you can't take it" might mean there's a subtle magic hindrance like a suggestion spell or something along the lines.
Or i need to remove my tinfoil hat and he just had a bad day. Equally possible.

[Nidgit]

I'm confused- he picks a place for you to transport to, it's a bank vault, and then he doesn't prepare for the possibility that you try to loot it?

Who does that?

[War_lord]

Probably just DM panic. Maybe forgot about Heward's Handy Haversack and thought you'd only be able to carry out so much gold. That's the disadvantage to "just winging it" as a DM, you'll inevitably screw up something and have to improv, and if you're bad at improv you'll just have your players hit a wall.

[qube]

@OP, OTOH, have you even considered who you're stealing from?

As usually money ~ power ... you're probably stealing from someone who could easily
track (by both non-magical & magical ways)
capture
torture
you. Just think: What tier of NPC you're facing when it has a vault with an interdimentional connection ... Typically I'd put that in the "demon lord or higher" category ...

[Unoriginal]

As a DM, I probably would have either made so an alarm was triggered, or had the vault's owner show up. Wouldn't have stopped you from stuffing your bag, though, but as qube said, a vault filled with riches and magic item is what you find in the lair of high-tier dragons, genies, fiends or the like.

[Citan]

There was one session, we decided to use our Well of Many Worlds. It is a magic item that is a large handkerchief that opens up into a portal that leads to a random place of the DM's choice, but this version is homebrewed to connect to another similar Well of which the current location is unknown. But we decided to take the risk anyway.

We ended up inside a huge bank vault, full of gold and treasure. While my party members were busy failing their Sanity checks from going through the portal (I was the only one that passed), I spend most of the time looting the gold pieces. After about 2-3 handfuls, the DM just told me, "Well, I can't let you have all the gold here!" I asked him whats stopping me from taking the gold? Because I have Hewards Handy Haversack, and I could take a lot of them before I become over encumbered. One of my party member have a Haversack too. He couldn't answer me, and simply refused to allow me to loot any more. For the sake of not interrupting the session, I chose not to argue with him.

He is generally not a bad DM, in fact, he is a good, experienced DM, though he is known to 'wing it' a lot and do little preparation. But this is quite ridiculous. Abusing DM fiat simply because he is not prepared to let his players become instant millionaires? Why put us in a bank vault then?

What do you guys think? Is he right, or should he have done better?


Your GM sounds like an ok guy that either didn't think things through or is up to something.

That would be my assumption too, unless he was just in the wrong mindset for whatever reason and just bursted out the "god mode" because he was surprised by the situation. But I doubt it, since he decided to send you there in the first place.

Also, if just the gold stealing had really been a problem from a meta point of view, he could have adjusted after the fact (newborn millionaires usually attract much attention, with all that ensues).

From the bits you provide, I'd say he had something specific in mind to play for that scene, but something he didn't expect at all made everything derail instantly and he didn't manage to find a quick way to put the flow back on tracks. Especially since your opinion is that he usually doesn't do that and is experienced.

So, to answer your actual questions? He is not right and he could certainly have done better (at least try to give some justification, as poor as it may be). But he probably had an actual reason to do so, so don't keep this against him.
(Although, if later you have confirmation that he didn't have specific in mind and just panicked from a simple lack of preparation, an out-of-game word to kindly tell him that this level of improvization is sometimes detrimental could be worth)

This makes me actually very curious about what was his original goal? Because, I mean, when you put a band of adventurers in a vault full of gold, watching them loot everything should be the basic expectation... No? XD

[Satinavian]

Yes, sounds like poor DMing.

[Cap'm Bubbles]

I did pretty much this one time. It's DM panic, forgetting that you can't give a glimpse of a horde of treasure and loot without providing some way to acquire it.
Your DM would have been less frustrated and frustrating had he either permitted the party boon and adjusted later encounters, or planned for retaliation for the bank heist (someone has already mentioned the minimum capabilities of someone with this much money and magic).

[DarkKnightJin]

He also had the chance to go "Okay, let me think for a minute, because I wasn't expecting this to happen."

IMO, being honest is the better option. He's only human, and a DM has a LOT to keep track of at any given moment.

Be sure to let him know that it's okay to ask for a moment to collect his thoughts if he feels overwhelmd. There's nothing wrong with that.

[Mandragola]

Basically yes, it's a mistake - albeit kind of an odd one. As you say, why give adventurers a means of teleporting in and out of a bank vault if he doesn't want them to rob said vault?

Personally I wouldn't bother with haversacks. I'd just start shovelling everything through the portal and figure out what to do with it on the other side. Tenser's floating disk might play a part - if there was no wheelbarrow available.

Next time my character is in a town I'll have him purchase a shovel, for just this kind of eventuality.

Anyway we all make mistakes, and should be a bit forgiving when others do. I think that if I'd been DMing in this situation I'd have let the characters have the gold and then see where that took us. Gold is actually of quite limited value to PCs anyway once they've got hold of a suit of plate to wear - if they even need one. It wouldn't have broken the game and could lead to a situation where the PCs were being chased by law enforcement, enforcers hired by the bank, or whoever owned the gold.

Or I'd have put an iron golem in the vault to make sure that unauthorised people didn't take anything.

[Tanarii]

Yeah, rule number one of being a DM, if you show PCs loot, most players will try to loot it. Some might stop just long enough to wonder where the trap or enemy is.

Very few will be stop to think about consequences other than the immediate. I mean, that might as well be a general rule for D&D. :smallamused:

[Potato_Priest]

It seems strange to me that an experienced DM wouldn't predict you to loot the money. I really can't say what was going through his mind, because that's a pretty simple rule of planning for the actions of player characters.

[Armored Walrus]

Everyone saying it's odd that he didn't expect them to loot the money, I think, is not taking into account that the DM likely forgot you had the haversack, and panicked when he realized that. I agree he probably should have just allowed you to gather the loot unless he could give some plausible reason why you couldn't just grab it all. Then move on with the session and figure out whether the party's sudden influx of treasure needed to be dealt with in some way - after the heat of the moment.

But cut him some slack, it can be hard sometimes to respond when you get caught totally flatfooted. Easy to see the mistake after the fact, but difficult in the moment. Like when my players were going through Sunless Citadel. I had added a few minor NPCs and one of them, when the party confronted her, was smart enough to know, based on how the first round went, that she needed to just flee. She went invisible and I had her flee down the tunnel that, in the module, leads to the underdark. My game is set in a setting without an underdark, and I had planned to just not mention that tunnel, but soon as I decided she needed to flee, I forgot all about that.

Once the party got into the tunnel, it was too narrow for them to move in anything other than single file, and if I had her turn and counter attack at that point, she would have slaughtered them one by one, so I just hoped they would give up and turn back, but they pursued, until I finally just said "look, this tunnel goes for miles and there's nothing in it, you need to turn back."

After the fact, it's easy to see I could have just had her ambush them in an area where the tunnel widens, or could have had her hit and run, or collapse the tunnel behind her, or have it come out onto the surface, miles away, with her nowhere to be found. But in the moment I got tunnel vision (pun mostly intended) and just couldn't think of anything other than, "Why the hell aren't they turning around!??"

IMO it happens to every DM once in awhile. If your game has been good otherwise, just trust him and move on. I'm sure he's got something good up his sleeve.

[Ninja-Radish]

I wouldn't say he's a bad DM, but I would say he's a poorly prepared DM.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Eh, annoying that he didn't notice the obvious problem until you got there, but DMing can be hard work. Sometimes you slip up. Sounds like he was pretty up front about the mistake, too.

Though it is pretty clear he hasn't instilled enough fear in you players. My players would never trust a room filled with gold. Several have tried to kill them in the past. It's almost never actually gold.

[JNAProductions]

I wouldn't say he's a bad DM, but I would say he's a poorly prepared DM.

Agreed.


Eh, annoying that he didn't notice the obvious problem until you got there, but DMing can be hard work. Sometimes you slip up. Sounds like he was pretty up front about the mistake, too.

Though it is pretty clear he hasn't instilled enough fear in you players. My players would never trust a room filled with gold. Several have tried to kill them in the past. It's almost never actually gold.

Also agreed on this.

He certainly doesn't sound like a BAD DM, he sounds like a DM who goofed up. Talk to him about it later, and just let him know he made a mistake (though he probably already knows that), and offer some advice on what to do next time. Make sure you're friendly about it-D&D is a game, and the DM has a lot on their plate. Don't make him feel bad about it, just offer suggestions for how to be better next time.