Generic Classes for 5e?

[Baptor]

Hey, anyone remember the Generic Classes from 3.5?

If you need a refresher, see here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm

They were, IMO, a great idea but poorly executed.

My main love was the idea of a generic spellcaster like those you'd read about in books. A magic-user could potentially learn any spell, including healing ones. Think Wheel of Time or Elder Scrolls Skyrim.

Now the way they tried to make this work is to have the characters customize themselves through feats and spell selection. I'm not sure such a simple solution is possible in 5e, where feats are kind of an afterthought.

Also, since skills are not quite what they were in 3.5, the expert kinda falls flat.

My idea was to make a series of Generic Classes based on magical ability.

Type 1
Squishy pure spellcaster, d6hp, levels 1-9, most spell selection options (like Wizard)

Type 2
Tough pure spellcaster, d8hp, levels 1-9, more limitations on spell selection/abilities, (like Bard)

Type 3
Hybrid, d10hp, levels 1-5 (like Paladin)

Type 4
Tank, d12hp, fighter-like options, no spells (like Fighter, Barbarian)

That's the very rough and general idea. I've no idea how to make it really work, though. What do you think? How could it really work? Is this even reasonable? is there an easier way to get what I want?

[JBPuffin]

My idea was to make a series of Generic Classes based on magical ability.

Type 1
Squishy pure spellcaster, d6hp, levels 1-9, most spell selection options (like Wizard)

Type 2
Tough pure spellcaster, d8hp, levels 1-9, more limitations on spell selection/abilities, (like Bard)

Type 3
Hybrid, d10hp, levels 1-5 (like Paladin)

Type 4
Tank, d12hp, fighter-like options, no spells (like Fighter, Barbarian)

That's the very rough and general idea. I've no idea how to make it really work, though. What do you think? How could it really work? Is this even reasonable? is there an easier way to get what I want?

I've had similar thoughts since 5e came out, but I'm not sure I like the division. Types 3 and 4 work well, I believe, but having both 1 and 2 in the same system is, honestly, rather superfluous. With that in mind, I'd go for Type 4s w/ no casting, Type 3s with 1/3rd casting ala EK/AT/Artificer, Type 2s w/ half-casting ala Paladin and Ranger, and Type 1s with full casting. If you want a Type 2 or 3 without spells at all, you get more features to supplement that.

First things first: work out your chasses. Figure out how you want to divide armor, weapon proficiencies, and so forth - for example, in order of least to most squishy, you might say no/light/medium/heavy for armor and some simple/simple/simple and some martial/simple and martial for weapons. Figure out how many skills characters should get at the start, and determine how they might obtain more if they want them. Each chassis should cover everything that isn't a class feature, excluding spellcasting.

Next comes determining how features are balanced comparatively. Remember that generic classes don't have subclasses, so every character is picking features every level except dead levels (only for Types 1 and 2, see PHB classes for details and examples). Every feature released has a level assigned to it based on the class it's a part of; you can adjust these some, but do so sparingly at first. Features that appear under multiple classes/subclasses (best example being unarmored defense) should almost never be touched, but something like, say, Expertise or Fighting Style may have different access points depending on the character's Type (ie, d12s can take FS at 1st level, d10s and lower have to wait until 2nd).

Beyond that, remember that you'll have to do a lot of fine-tuning through playtesting. Also, check out zeek0's Guide to Character Variance (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?529938-A-Guide-to-Character-Variance-or-How-to-Fundamentally-Alter-Your-Character&highlight=guide+to+character+variance) for some examples of changing ability score usage on a character-by-character basis and how things like Unarmored Defense might work.

[Sicarius Victis]

If using those four types, what would a nonmagical Thief be? They aren't tough enough to merit d12 HD, definitely.

[Baptor]

snip

Wow thanks for the feedback and especially the resource! That variant class thing is awesome.


If using those four types, what would a nonmagical Thief be? They aren't tough enough to merit d12 HD, definitely.

Ah, yes well this is where we'd get into territory that isn't going to please everyone. My thoughts on the whole "thief" is that in my system "anyone can be a thief." Let's break it down.

At it's heart the thief is 2 things - a deadly striker and a skill monkey.

In my game anyone could be a skill monkey by taking the right feats or whatever. Expertise would be something you could pick up. Like in Skyrim, anyone can learn how to pick locks, sneak around, etc.

If you want to play a deadly striker with NO magic, then type 4 is your deal. Remember, hp are only an abstraction. Just because you have d12 HD doesn't mean you are a big burly man, it just means you are really good at not taking meaningful damage or mitigating it. If you think that HP are literally chunks of meat the enemy beats out of you, my system doesn't work for you.

So someone who wants to play a Dex based striker who uses a rapier or a bow and strikes from the shadows but is not interested at all in magic would want to play a Type 4 and take appropriate "feats" (or whatever I'd call them) and get light armor, Dex based skills, and sneak attack (which you can also purchase).

If you're wondering why I've approached it via magic, it's because I can't think of a way to reasonably make vancian magic a "pay per play" kind of thing. If I could, there'd be no classes at all and you'd purchase everything through some sort of Training Points system. Alas, I can't do that, so this is what I've got.

[Kane0]

Oh yeah I remember toying with this idea too. Lets see if I can dig up my old notes...

It was a lot of ideas in one place. Level range 1-15, compressed spell levels, 3.PF saves and generic classes.

Warrior: d10 Hit Die, three skills, all armor/weapons, good fort average will bad reflex
All warriors get a fighting style plus extra attacks at levels 4 and 10
Some subclasses grant casting that is roughly a new spell level every 5 levels (maxes at 3rd level spells)

Expert: d8 Hit Die, four skills, light/medium armor + shields and simple weapons, good reflex average fort bad will
All experts get expertise plus an extra attack at level 7
Some subclasses grant spellcasting that is roughly a new spell level every 4 levels (maxes at 4th level spells)

Caster: d6 hit die, two skills, light armor and simple weapons, good will average reflex bad fort
All casters get cantrips, rituals and a new spell level every 3 levels (maxes at 5th level spells)

All classes get ASIs at 3, 6, 9 and 12
All classes pick a subclass at level 2 and get subclass abilities at levels 5, 8, 11 and 14

I didn't get far enough into it to fully flesh out other class and subclass features.