[3.5] Help me build a dark Wizard or StP Erudite

[Sleven]

Supposed to be starting a campaign within a few weeks and I was asked to play a dedicated spellcaster. All sources allowed (including Dragon), but no 3rd party. When it comes to recalling classes, feats, abilities, etc. I tend to remember powerful ones, but not powerful and flavorful ones. So I thought I'd ask the playground for some help in combining the two.

I don't need help with the character archetype, just putting mechanical aspects to it.

At the moment I'm leaning towards a Wizard using Magic of Hunger and (possibly) Reserves of Strength (to represent their willingness to sacrifice for power and/or do what's necessary to achieve vengeance) from Dragonlance (although Moon Magic will not be a thing) and Spell Swap (because I'm probably going to be the only primary caster, and will need spontaneous options) from Kalamar. This is all cool with the DM of course, because I know how to not take over a game even at high levels of power (and is part of the reason why I was asked to play the primary caster role in the first place). Initially, I had thought to simplify things and play a Shadowcraft Mage (non-racist adaptation), but wasn't interested in the early level feat sinking slog they typically face. Though, I suppose I could always be convinced to make one anyways. Not really interested in Enchantment, and am only interested in the non undead minion related aspects of Necromancy.

On the other hand, I was originally asked to play a StP Erudite for the whole "acquiring power from other peoples' minds and obscure arcane resources to achieve the power necessary to achieve vengeance" shtick, but at the moment can't seem to find any PrCs (not interested in Subverted Psion) that really interest me flavor wise (Psionics doesn't have much support on that front). Which is when I started looking towards Wizard. If I do decide to go the StP route, I'm hoping folks out there will be able to convince me how it can fit into the character background I'm looking to play, with a few interesting PrC options (other than an Anarchic Initiate and/or Mindbender dip, since I would likely already be doing that if I decide to go this route).

The only other thing that really came to mind was perhaps a combination of the two ala Darklight Wizard (got a yes on that as well) / Psion / Mind Mage 10, but I'm worried that won't get rolling fast enough to keep my interest during levels 5-9.

As far as character background goes, this is a guy/gal who I want to make expressly impetuous, giving them a reckless/selfish vibe (somewhere on the Chaotic Neutral to Neutral Evil spectrum) in addition to strong power-hungry undercurrents. He/she would willingly sacrifice themselves just to see the people that did him/her harm burn. They would be smart and capable of being subversive/manipulative when waiting in the wings, but when the opportunity for vengeance presents itself, their young, impetuous, power-hungry nature takes over. Open to the possibility of a redemption arc, but for now want to focus on creating a "dark" theme with said character.

My goal with this character is to build something that waits in the wings, but can whip out a spell/power to solve situations when the rest of the party is coming up empty (trying to give them most of the spotlight outside of my personal character's arc) while still maintaining a few spell/power staples (I do intend to have strong offensive options at my disposal). My intention is to do this by creating a character that is initially very reserved when it comes to the party, but obviously (in certain personal situations) extremely impetuous.

I'm usually a super optimizer, so feel free to go nuts. I'll curb it myself if need be. What other PrCs, feats, abilities, etc. can help me build a character that fits this power-hungry/impetuous archetype and still has some strong tricks available? (as mentioned at the start of the thread I tend to lack in the flavor department when it comes to feat/power/ability knowledge)

Ideally, either of these builds will function level 1 to--who knows how far it will go (doesn't matter if skill and feat retraining/reformation is necessary, but the class levels will be ones I am sticking to i.e. no rebuilding rules).

[DMVerdandi]

I'd go for the STP Erudite (Dragon version).
Prestige classes honestly aren't even that great. Outside of war-weaver and like...incantatrix , wizard PRC's aren't really even that big of a deal. Being able to cast (almost) all psion powers and arcane spells, is so far ahead in flexibility that it's not even a challenge if you have the opportunity.

Nothing is stopping you from taking assassin spells, beguiler spells, and any and all arcane spells from various splat books with a "darker" theme central to it. Libris mortis, heroes of horror, etc.
The flavor from wizard PRC's isn't close to the flavor you can get from certain spells themselves. If you cast Evard's Black tentacles in every fight, it doesn't matter if you are a cleric, an erudite or a wizard, eventually you will be the tentacle fetish guy. That is how you add flavor through spells rather than class.

If you cast [shadow] spells, you don't have to be a shadow craft mage, but you are going to eventually be recognized for your specialization in those spells.

STP erudite is not any more powerful than any other caster/manifester, but their flexibility is something delicious.
By far my favorite class (artificer following).

[atemu1234]

I'd go for the STP Erudite (Dragon version).
Prestige classes honestly aren't even that great. Outside of war-weaver and like...incantatrix , wizard PRC's aren't really even that big of a deal. Being able to cast (almost) all psion powers and arcane spells, is so far ahead in flexibility that it's not even a challenge if you have the opportunity.

Nothing is stopping you from taking assassin spells, beguiler spells, and any and all arcane spells from various splat books with a "darker" theme central to it. Libris mortis, heroes of horror, etc.
The flavor from wizard PRC's isn't close to the flavor you can get from certain spells themselves. If you cast Evard's Black tentacles in every fight, it doesn't matter if you are a cleric, an erudite or a wizard, eventually you will be the tentacle fetish guy. That is how you add flavor through spells rather than class.

If you cast [shadow] spells, you don't have to be a shadow craft mage, but you are going to eventually be recognized for your specialization in those spells.

STP erudite is not any more powerful than any other caster/manifester, but their flexibility is something delicious.
By far my favorite class (artificer following).

To be fair, there are a couple Psionic PrCs worth looking at. Taking Mindbender 1/Thrallherd 10 is a tantalizing option, especially if one makes one's thralls into Wizards.

[Sagetim]

As the others already mentioned, I agree that you would probably be fine just going straight Spell To Power Erudite all the way to 20. I do have to mention that if you go Thrallherd, that seems like it could easily break the theme you're going for, as the thralls will probably take center stage as expendable minions. That said, at mid to high level, it might be fun to create a secondary party for the group to play out of your thralls, to spotlight some of what's going on in a larger battle.

But other than that, I think Thrallherd and the Leadership feat tend to lend themselves to overshadowing the rest of the party, at least to some degree. At least, if you use them normally, it would present that problem. You could also potentially utilize your thralls as a network of spies and contacts, so that when someone else in the party is all "Here's my crazy plan for dealing with X" you can steeple fingers and slide out of the shadowy corner with the solution of, "I know some people who can handle such things." Additionally, the variety of minions presented by the Thrallherd's call would enable you to have your hand in monstrous politics, with goblins, orcs, bugbears, gnolls and what have you acting as informants on your behalf. This could become a means for the DM to introduce story hooks to the party, like 'Beepo the Gnoll has notified you that rival clans are on the move, if they keep going the way they are, they will start hitting towns in this area soon'.

I suppose my point is that you would have to be careful how you handle the army that the Thrallherd prestige class would present you with, if you went into it.

The Feats Overchannel, Talented, and Body Fuel seem like they would fit the concept as well, even if I would normally avoid suggesting them for being, you know, self destructive and a power point sink. If the dark magic of the Book of Vile Darkness is on the table as something you could potentially pick up, then Corrupt spells present another outlet for the whole 'power at any price' thing you seem to want to have access to.

Also, while I'm pretty sure most casters/manifesters don't bother with having any kind of, you know, good weapon on hand, you might find it fitting for the theme to have a dagger with Vicious, Collision, and Wounding on it, in addition to a nice +5 so you can maybe hit someone with it from time to time. Or open up combat with a surprise gut stab during a banquet. Whatever works.

Oh, and don't forget that you can have an Astral Construct look like whatever you want. In one game I had my first level Astral Constructs look like little monkey things with wings and claws. They were dubbed 'Magic Murder Monkies' by the rest of the party, who, in character, thought my character was some kind of demon summoner or trafficker with the dark powers. So I'd suggest getting Astral Construct ASAP, because you can do a lot with it beyond simply summoning a doughty minion. In that same vein, the Constructor prestige class is a solid option for being better with Astral Constructs, but you would probably want to try out your Astral Construct in combat for a bit first before making any build investments in it. While Boost Construct is great if you keep using the Astral Construct power, Skin of the Construct might see more use even if you stop using Astral Constructs for minions. If nothing else, it gives you an option for peeling menu options out of your construct for personal buffing.

Oh, and there's always Binding, which you can pick up some of from feats alone. Nothing says dark and terrible powers like making a shady agreement with a non-being for supernatural powers and getting some wicked ram's horns in the process.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Erudite is cool and STP erudite is like erudite but massively better. One thing about erudite: non-epic the unique powers per day are somewhat poorly defined: it is either per level (which means it becomes trivial eventually) or per day total (at which point it becomes tricky). If he rules A beware epic because once you hit 25 it is very clear what happens. If he rules B epic is fine. Now, if you are laboring under B I highly recommend powers that have at least some versatility (I super recommend Astral Construct).

[Raz Dazzle]

If all sources are available, I'd recommend looking at the Archpsion prc from the WotC web archives.

[atemu1234]

If all sources are available, I'd recommend looking at the Archpsion prc from the WotC web archives.

Innate Psionics looks like fun. Now I'm imagining a 17th level Psion who uses that to get Ultrablast

Remember that psionic powers are automatically augmented...

[ZamielVanWeber]

Archpsion is a 3.0 class and designed to work with the vastly different 3.0 rules. I would not even try to use Archpsion until you talk to your DM about updating it.

[Sleven]

When I initially thought to make a StP Erudite, my build stub was Erudite 15/Anarchic Initiate 1/Mindbender 1/Arch Psion 3 or Erudite 10/Abjurant Champion 5/Anarchic Initiate 1/Mindbender 1/Arch Psion 3 (with adaptations allowed). However, there wasn't much dark flavor in terms of PrCs, which is why I thought to make this thread.

Tim is correct in that I do not want to utilize something like Thrallherd to overshadow other party members, although he does bring up an interesting alternative way to play the class. Unfortunately, I would still find this to detract from the way some of the other party members are currently building.

On the Wizard end of things, I find myself drawn towards a Darklight Wizard 1/Focused Specialist (Conjuration or Necromancy?) Wizard X/Ultimate Magus 10/Any X build using Spell Swap to meet the spontaneous spellcasting requirements and the Eidetic Spellcaster ACF to make it official. It would give me a lot of slots to play with, and allow me a way around my restricted schools with my Darklight Wizard spellcasting progression--possibly with Master Spellthief thrown in the mix. It would also still allow me to pull off the Magic of Hunger theme, if I wanted (though it wouldn't be strictly necessary at this point either). That said, I'm still not sure if I can sell myself on how awkward Ultimate Magus would make my spell progression, and I've never been a fan of the class without pulling spells like Wings of Flurry or Holy Word/Blasphemy.

Recaster is a party favorite (and I would even be able to do a non-racist adaptation), but I would still need some dark things to tie it together.

The other option I considered was actually an Archivist Ultimate Magus and involved a number of dirty tricks, Beholder Mage, and the all cheesy Tainted Scholar. While I'm okay with a Tainted Scholar build, the Beholder Mage cheese seemed a wedge too far.

Sorcerers have always been easy for me to make, but most of the fun Sorcerer builds that come to mind would directly overshadow various members of the party. Though I did give an Anima Mage build with early entry some serious thought.

Edit: Ah, one of the other things I did consider was a Darklight Wizard 1/Warlock X/Eldritch Theurge 10/Any X (possibly Tainted Scholar) build, but Warlocks have always felt so shallow to me without homebrew/house rules to bring them up to snuff.