OnlyPlayLawGood
2017-09-18, 10:16 PM
This topic has been a major controversy and the official ruling provided by the author of it is interpretable in manifold ways.
Therefore I suggest an approach of the issue with the context of what was intended by the author of the game in a concrete example.
My brother is at an effective character level of 40 including a cleric class, a generic spellcaster class (arcane), a true necromancer (libris mortis), and a vampire Lord template (LA 11) according to WOC website.
He finds himself abducted by a powerful god that became aware of his epic deeds namely by developing a very powerful epic spell and using it to inscrease his general power and hence do a difference in this DnD campaign where the material plan has been conquered by demons and devils. The god puts him in one of his fabricated dungeons as a challenge. When his character realises that he is in the dungeon, he notices the walls as being of a green crystaline color (almost like dimansional anchor) and therefore decides to cast the epic spell "superb dispelling" (1d20 + max 40).
The DM asks himself : What is the caster level of the class in which the character casts Superb Dispelling, if it is cast as an arcane spell?
Player reads the official ruling and interpretes that any and all benefits is includes in the term "benefit", including the increase of the caster level.
The official ruling for the true necromancer :
Spells per Day/Spells Known: A true necromancer gains
new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she
had also gained a level in either an arcane spellcasting class
she belonged to before adding the prestige class, a divine spell-
casting class she belonged to before adding the prestige class,
or both, according to the accompanying table. She does not,
however, gain any other benefi t a character of that class would
have gained (metamagic or item creation feats and so on; but see
Improved Rebuking and Necromantic Prowess, below). If she had more than one arcane or divine spellcasting class before
becoming a true necromancer, she must decide to which class
she adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per
day and spells known.
The Player therefore concludes that the +1 level added to existing spell casting class may only be accounted for the purpose of determining the spell level that he character can cast in the arcane spellcasting class, and do not account for the caster level of that spellcasting class to determining spell power.
The character is Cleric 3, Generic spellcaster (arcane) 3, true necromancer 23, and would thus be able to cast 9th level spells of wither spellcasting class(cleric or Gen SC) at a caster level 3.
However, the player handbook rules at page 171 in the caster level topic that :
CASTER LEVEL
A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most
spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re
using to cast the spell. For example, a fireball deals 1d6 points of
damage per caster level (to a maximum of 10d6), so a 10th-level
wizard can cast a more powerful fireball than a 5th-level wizard can.
You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the
caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell
in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the
same caster level. For example, at 10th level, Mialee can cast a fireball
to a range of 800 feet for 10d6 points of damage. If she wishes, she
can cast a fireball that deals less damage by casting the spell at a lower
caster level, but she must reduce the range according to the selected
caster level, and she can’t cast fireball with a caster level lower than
5th (the minimum level required for a wizard to cast fireball).
In the event that a class feature, domain granted power, or other
special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that
adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as
range, duration, and damage dealt) but also to your caster level
check to overcome your target’s spell resistance (see Spell Resis-
tance, page 177) and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both
the dispel check and the DC of the check). For instance, a 7th-level
cleric with the Good domain casts spells with the good descriptor as
if he were 8th level. This means that his holy smite deals 4d8 points of
damage, he tolls 1d20+8 to overcome spell resistance with his good
spells, and his protection from evil spell resists being dispelled as if it
had been cast by an 8th-level spellcaster.
Back to the initial approach, the context of what was intended by the author, was most assuredly not to create the prestige classes as unplayable characters. Therefore, notwithstanding that the text ruling can grammatically and syntaxialy in english be interpreted that the +1 level of an existing SC class is only for the purpose of determining the level of the spell available in the character's spell list, and that the increase of the Caster Level accounting for that +1 level can be interpreted as being a benefit of some sort, the Caster Level ruling and also the basic ruling of casting spells intended characters to be able to cast spells only if they acheived a certain caster level, in order to balance the game.
Who would play with characters of High ECL not able to cast high level spells, or vice versa?
NOW, I know that there has been many other questions and issues that arose from game situations concerning the stacking of those levels.
In a nutshell for those would don't like roman-length explanations like i did with this post, the +1 level granted by a prestige class (exceptions omitted), are only affecting spellcasting (spell level, spells per day, spells known and caster level) and not the other "benefits" or attributes or bonuses that would be granting the base spellcasring class when you level up by 1 in it. Those benifits include all but is not limited to feats, class features, ab acore bonus, AC, special attacks or abilities and virtually anything in the colums intitled "Attack bonus", "saving throw", and "special" and excludes anything regarding spellcasting.
Note also that some prestige classes grant +1 level in other types of class than a spellcasting one.
to conclude:
coherence between latter and former rulings according to the context of the intent of the author in order to balance and calibrate the game of DnD 3.5.
peace.
Therefore I suggest an approach of the issue with the context of what was intended by the author of the game in a concrete example.
My brother is at an effective character level of 40 including a cleric class, a generic spellcaster class (arcane), a true necromancer (libris mortis), and a vampire Lord template (LA 11) according to WOC website.
He finds himself abducted by a powerful god that became aware of his epic deeds namely by developing a very powerful epic spell and using it to inscrease his general power and hence do a difference in this DnD campaign where the material plan has been conquered by demons and devils. The god puts him in one of his fabricated dungeons as a challenge. When his character realises that he is in the dungeon, he notices the walls as being of a green crystaline color (almost like dimansional anchor) and therefore decides to cast the epic spell "superb dispelling" (1d20 + max 40).
The DM asks himself : What is the caster level of the class in which the character casts Superb Dispelling, if it is cast as an arcane spell?
Player reads the official ruling and interpretes that any and all benefits is includes in the term "benefit", including the increase of the caster level.
The official ruling for the true necromancer :
Spells per Day/Spells Known: A true necromancer gains
new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she
had also gained a level in either an arcane spellcasting class
she belonged to before adding the prestige class, a divine spell-
casting class she belonged to before adding the prestige class,
or both, according to the accompanying table. She does not,
however, gain any other benefi t a character of that class would
have gained (metamagic or item creation feats and so on; but see
Improved Rebuking and Necromantic Prowess, below). If she had more than one arcane or divine spellcasting class before
becoming a true necromancer, she must decide to which class
she adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per
day and spells known.
The Player therefore concludes that the +1 level added to existing spell casting class may only be accounted for the purpose of determining the spell level that he character can cast in the arcane spellcasting class, and do not account for the caster level of that spellcasting class to determining spell power.
The character is Cleric 3, Generic spellcaster (arcane) 3, true necromancer 23, and would thus be able to cast 9th level spells of wither spellcasting class(cleric or Gen SC) at a caster level 3.
However, the player handbook rules at page 171 in the caster level topic that :
CASTER LEVEL
A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most
spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re
using to cast the spell. For example, a fireball deals 1d6 points of
damage per caster level (to a maximum of 10d6), so a 10th-level
wizard can cast a more powerful fireball than a 5th-level wizard can.
You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the
caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell
in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the
same caster level. For example, at 10th level, Mialee can cast a fireball
to a range of 800 feet for 10d6 points of damage. If she wishes, she
can cast a fireball that deals less damage by casting the spell at a lower
caster level, but she must reduce the range according to the selected
caster level, and she can’t cast fireball with a caster level lower than
5th (the minimum level required for a wizard to cast fireball).
In the event that a class feature, domain granted power, or other
special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that
adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as
range, duration, and damage dealt) but also to your caster level
check to overcome your target’s spell resistance (see Spell Resis-
tance, page 177) and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both
the dispel check and the DC of the check). For instance, a 7th-level
cleric with the Good domain casts spells with the good descriptor as
if he were 8th level. This means that his holy smite deals 4d8 points of
damage, he tolls 1d20+8 to overcome spell resistance with his good
spells, and his protection from evil spell resists being dispelled as if it
had been cast by an 8th-level spellcaster.
Back to the initial approach, the context of what was intended by the author, was most assuredly not to create the prestige classes as unplayable characters. Therefore, notwithstanding that the text ruling can grammatically and syntaxialy in english be interpreted that the +1 level of an existing SC class is only for the purpose of determining the level of the spell available in the character's spell list, and that the increase of the Caster Level accounting for that +1 level can be interpreted as being a benefit of some sort, the Caster Level ruling and also the basic ruling of casting spells intended characters to be able to cast spells only if they acheived a certain caster level, in order to balance the game.
Who would play with characters of High ECL not able to cast high level spells, or vice versa?
NOW, I know that there has been many other questions and issues that arose from game situations concerning the stacking of those levels.
In a nutshell for those would don't like roman-length explanations like i did with this post, the +1 level granted by a prestige class (exceptions omitted), are only affecting spellcasting (spell level, spells per day, spells known and caster level) and not the other "benefits" or attributes or bonuses that would be granting the base spellcasring class when you level up by 1 in it. Those benifits include all but is not limited to feats, class features, ab acore bonus, AC, special attacks or abilities and virtually anything in the colums intitled "Attack bonus", "saving throw", and "special" and excludes anything regarding spellcasting.
Note also that some prestige classes grant +1 level in other types of class than a spellcasting one.
to conclude:
coherence between latter and former rulings according to the context of the intent of the author in order to balance and calibrate the game of DnD 3.5.
peace.