Cleric10/Paladin5

[KillingTime]

So I'm starting to think about a build for a new campaign our DM has in mind for after we finish CoS.
Apparently it'll likely hit Lvl15 so I'm not bothering to map out anything higher than that.
No real idea what the party will look like yet, but there's possibly going to be a Bard, a Bladelock, and maybe a Monk, maybe a Moon Druid.

I'm considering a Hill Dwarf Tempest Cleric with 5 levels of Paladin to pick up Fighting Style, Smite, and 2 attacks.

A few questions:
Is it worth going to Pal6 in order to grab Aura of Protection?
I'm thinking Oath of the Ancients. Is this a good call?
Is it too MAD to dip Paladin at all?

[GorogIrongut]

YOu must go level 6 Paladin... probably before you even go Cleric. So 6 levels of paladin and then the rest in Cleric.

[Spiritchaser]

If you're going ancients, consider going to 7 for the aura, then to 8 for the stat increase, then to 9 for aura of vitality spell, then maybe 10 for resistance to fear, then 11 for improved divine smite... then 12 fof...

What you wanted some cleric too?

Mechanically, If you're going to go just 6 levels then I'd say go vengeance or devotion if the concept fits what you want. Plus the extra CD per short rest goes well with those two.

With cleric, either should RP smoothly enough.

[KillingTime]

Heh...
I'll definitely be going Cleric first. I want a full caster from the off, with a bit of combat potential to help shore up the party.

Strikes me that Devotion doesn't offer much that Cleric can't already do better.
Vengeance could be fun though.

[Byke]

ANy paladin subclass you choose Aura of Protection is the way to go :) Yes....it's that good.
The only reason to go Ancient is for the 7th level ability :) Yes....it is that good

[KillingTime]

OK thanks for the input.

Potential path:

Cleric 4/5
Lvl4 to get the first ASI and then potentially Lvl 5 for 3rd level spells (as likely the party's only real healer we'll benefit from having mass healing word as soon as possible).

Paladin 4/5/6/7
Second ASI/Second attack/Aura/Aura

Cleric 6/7/8
2x Channel Divinity/4th level spells/Third ASI

[Specter]

Yep, as others said, Paladin 6/Cleric 9 is the way to go.

[Spiritchaser]

Heh...
I'll definitely be going Cleric first. I want a full caster from the off, with a bit of combat potential to help shore up the party.

Strikes me that Devotion doesn't offer much that Cleric can't already do better.
Vengeance could be fun though.

Devotion gets a really slick bonus to hit everything from sacred weapon and with two channel divinities from cleric 6+, you'll have it very nearly every time you need it.

The advantage from vengeance is nothing to sneeze at but it's limited to a single target, and vengeance gets a very nice spell list, but you were probably going to take those devotion spells anyway, now you can take some other interesting cleric spells...

Vengeance CD is less MAD of course but I wouldn't rule out devotion. With bless up, and sacred weapon, missing is mostly something that happens to other people.

Either way, with bless and aura of protection, failing saves mostly happens to other people too... and not your friends at that.

[Flashy]

Cleric 4/5
Lvl4 to get the first ASI and then potentially Lvl 5 for 3rd level spells (as likely the party's only real healer we'll benefit from having mass healing word as soon as possible).

I don't think I've ever run into a scenario where Mass Healing Word would have been particularly useful.

Since the amount healed is so piddly it's only useful over Healing Word when two party members drop to zero in the same turn (which in my experience rarely happens). Even then, it's hard to justify a 3rd level slot over two 1st level Healing Words.

Honestly, if what you're worried about is healing you're getting at least as much value out of 25 points of Lay on Hands as you'd be getting out of Mass Healing Word.

[KillingTime]

I don't think I've ever run into a scenario where Mass Healing Word would have been particularly useful.

Since the amount healed is so piddly it's only useful over Healing Word when two party members drop to zero in the same turn (which in my experience rarely happens).

You've clearly never played at the same table as my DM...
We're usually about three sneezes from a TPK whenever we sit down.

[KillingTime]

i've put a little more thought into this build and need to decide on a race and starting stats.
I'd originally thought Hill Dwarf just because it's an easy fit for a Cleric (and not a bad choice for a Pally either).
But I'm also thinking about taking varient Human instead so that I can grab War Caster from the off...

V.Human would look like
16/8/12/8/16/13 + war caster

Hill Dwarf more like:
14/8/16/8/16/12

The Dwarf would obviously lend itself to tanking wheras the Human is the better combatant and caster but is considerably more fragile...

[Spiritchaser]

i've put a little more thought into this build and need to decide on a race and starting stats.
I'd originally thought Hill Dwarf just because it's an easy fit for a Cleric (and not a bad choice for a Pally either).
But I'm also thinking about taking varient Human instead so that I can grab War Caster from the off...

V.Human would look like
16/8/12/8/16/13 + war caster

Hill Dwarf more like:
14/8/16/8/16/12

The Dwarf would obviously lend itself to tanking wheras the Human is the better combatant and caster but is considerably more fragile...

I'm not sure that 12 con is viable, and with such low CHA, your aura of protection is fairly weak.

Are you planning to be a front liner? If so would it not make sense to be a PALADIN/cleric rather than a CLERIC/paladin?

16 8 14 8 13 16 is fine with half elf... and if you're devotion you may not need strength right away.

[KillingTime]

The basic premise with the build requires Cleric 8/Paladin5
Where the other 2 levels are spent makes no difference, but it would be good to get to Cleric 8 with a few more episodes of the campaign left to play rather than just in time for the big bad.

Tempest Cleric 1-4
Martial weapons and heavy armour.
Basic healing and some ranged (magic) and/or melee support as needed.
Wrath of the Storm makes him pretty safe in CC

Paladin 1-5
Smite
ASI
+1 Attack

Cleric 5-8
Thunderbolt strike
Divine strike
ASI

The idea is that he'll be supercharging his smite attacks with divine strike while using wrath of the storm and thunderbolt strike to control who he's in melee with. Everything else in the build is gravy, so it's really about optimising when I hit the various milestones, and what I spend the ASIs on (and in what order).

If I go Hill Dwarf then his stats will potentially be 14/8/16/8/16/12
I could probably front load Str instead of Wisdom though, as he's not actually all that reliant on Wis to get through most of his utility (and likewise I'm not really that worried about Cha for his Paladin abilities).

If I take Cleric 10 then I have more and bigger spell slots with which to smite.
If I take Paladin 7 I get a couple of useful Auras, though probably with low Cha to run them of.

[Finieous]

I think you get more out of EK, especially with low Charisma.

[Galadhrim]

i've put a little more thought into this build and need to decide on a race and starting stats.
I'd originally thought Hill Dwarf just because it's an easy fit for a Cleric (and not a bad choice for a Pally either).
But I'm also thinking about taking varient Human instead so that I can grab War Caster from the off...

V.Human would look like
16/8/12/8/16/13 + war caster

Hill Dwarf more like:
14/8/16/8/16/12

The Dwarf would obviously lend itself to tanking wheras the Human is the better combatant and caster but is considerably more fragile...

This is a tough multiclass to pull off. Your human stat line only has 12 con, tough for a front line character, and your Hill Dwarf stat line only has 12 cha so cannot multi in or out of Paladin. Maybe your DM will wave the requirement?

[PeteNutButter]

Due to the MADness half elf is likely the optimal race. I'd personally go with protector aasimar. It's a race that couldn't fit the class combination better and you can fly. 15, 8, 14, 8, 13, 16 sets you up for a value ASI at fourth level boosting str and wis.

I'd focus on str and cha after that. A paladin/caster is good, but play to your strengths. The big draw to cleric over any of the cha casters is channel divinity abuse. Pick both a paladin and cleric subclass with exceptional abilities on the channel divinity. Tempest is a good start.