Divinity: Original Sin 2: Larian doesn't know what 'original' means

[warty goblin]

So this just left Early Access.

And holy cow is it good. Like, really good. Like, maybe the best and most creative thing of its sort I've played in yonks.

So you go to build your character. All the normal options are there; elf, dwarf, human, lizard (!?). Then there's undead versions of each(!). Then there's specific characters with histories you can select. So maybe you want to play a human singer who happens to be sometimes possessed by some sort of very unpleasant spirit. Or a cannibal elf lady, or an age-old undead who just wants to figure out where everybody went. Or maybe you don't like any of the above, and whip up your own custom undead lizard.

Whatever the case, you can still choose your character class. Except OS2 doesn't have character classes, so you really just pick your starting attributes, skills, abilities and talents, and can customize them to your heart's content. And some of these are weird, like a skill that focuses on magically altering your own body, or being able to talk to animals.

Any of the fixed characters you don't play as will show up later as companions. And because OS2 is a smart game, you can set their class when you recruit them, so no more wanting to play a wizard but liking the wizard NPC or any of that nonsense.


The actual game itself is very clever. It does away with a lot of stuff that makes RPGs dull (obvious main quest quests) while getting rid of a lot of stuff that makes them obnoxious (unnecessarily stupid inventory shuffling), and then just basically lets you go do whatever you want. Combat is really excellent, with lots of weird abilities and about three million things on fire constantly. At least so far it doesn't feel the need to through easy-peasy fights at you constantly, so fights are occasional and actually pretty difficult. It's much more about being clever with positioning and abilities than the usual sort of throw numbers at each other until your bigger number pile wins.

If you like RPGs, you should be playing this.

[tonberrian]

I've been looking forward to this ever since I noticed it (which, admittedly, wasn't that long ago). How much do you need to have played the previous Divinity: Original Sin for this game? I'll probably end up getting both at some point, but just curious.

[warty goblin]

I've been looking forward to this ever since I noticed it (which, admittedly, wasn't that long ago). How much do you need to have played the previous Divinity: Original Sin for this game? I'll probably end up getting both at some point, but just curious.

I played a bit of Original Sin 1, but was very far from finishing the game and I don't think it matters at all. OS2 is way better in basically every discernable fashion, so I'd just skip Original Sin 1 and go straight to this.

One of the weird things about the Divinity games is that they all take place in the same universe, but they don't really seem to reference each other that much, and are very self-contained. This even extends to the in-game lore; it's there but the games focus much more on the things happening now than what happened in the writer's college D&D game the lore of the world. This means there's a remarkable lack of giant piles of lore you need to deal with, so you can get on with setting giant electric frogs on fire or whatever.

(Which isn't to say that the world isn't deep or full of stuff. I'm hard pressed to think of a game that packs in more stuff. It's just stuff that you don't have to read a bunch of fake history to understand or do.)

[Nadevoc]

After playing through the original D:OS with a friend, I was super excited about this. Picked it up and it looks really great so far. The tag system is pretty cool, opening up dialogue options based on who you are. And I've already seen a number of options opened up by racial choice, too (though sadly I haven't been of the correct race to actually take advantage; looking forward to replaying later with a different character to see some of that!)

I love how well the D:OS games work for two players; since you create two main characters instead of one, you just each take a character. We opt to each take the Lone Wolf talent so that's that, but you could opt out of that and I assume each get a companion (and then control two each instead of one each). The dialogue system takes advantage of having two players, too; a lot of conversations, each person gets to weigh in.

[factotum]

I like the game, but I just got stuck (playing on Classic difficulty) because the only way forward seems to be via the Arena or via an underground passage, and both contain fights that I can't get past with my level 3 party. Debating whether to restart on Explorer or keep beating my head against that particular brick wall...

[Vitruviansquid]

Game's great. Bedrolls are great. Revamped action point system is great.

I made a mistake of going into Necromancer/Aerothurge on my character because I thought Necromancer was going to be as dope as Witchcraft was in the first game with buffs and debuffs. It turned out to be pretty mediocre. But then I picked up Pyrokinesis and it is AMAZING in this game.

If I could do it all over again (which I probably will at some point) I would make a pyro/geo lizardman. Not sure what I'd go into for a third skill school later.

[factotum]

OK, turns out I missed a quest that gives me a pretty dope pair of teleport gloves, which I think is going to make things a bit easier--at the very least it'll give me more tactical options in those battles I'm struggling with.

[warty goblin]

Finally got closer to getting out of Fort Joy last night. In fact I've found a way out, but I've got some quests to finish up, and there's an annoying number of magisters who aren't dead yet. Still working on that.

The degree to which this game does not handhold and the difficulty of the combat encounters is really cool. It's not like I'm following a checklist, but really have to figure stuff out. For instance a character with a poison wand in their right hand and a fire wand in their left just devours magic armor. The ground also usually ends up on fire; a perfect place to summon something right behind your enemy to start ripping them up.

[factotum]

Yeah, the interaction with the environment is pretty cool, all told--was in the first game, too. Admittedly, teleporting a nasty enemy into the middle of a sea of fire isn't as effective in 2 because of the whole magic armour thing, since they won't actually catch fire unless all their magic armour is gone--not something likely near the beginning of a fight.

Pretty much in the same position you are, warty goblin--I could leave Fort Joy through any of the three exits I've discovered so far, but want to get as much XP and loot from the fort as I can before I leave.

[Keltest]

Yeah, the interaction with the environment is pretty cool, all told--was in the first game, too. Admittedly, teleporting a nasty enemy into the middle of a sea of fire isn't as effective in 2 because of the whole magic armour thing, since they won't actually catch fire unless all their magic armour is gone--not something likely near the beginning of a fight.

Pretty much in the same position you are, warty goblin--I could leave Fort Joy through any of the three exits I've discovered so far, but want to get as much XP and loot from the fort as I can before I leave.

In an amazing twist, the exits also function as entrances, for the most part. While not all of them will let you go back, if you can find where they let out on the other side, theres a decent chance you can break into the fort again from that direction.

The game does a pretty good job of warning you when you hit points of no return.

[Anteros]

In an amazing twist, the exits also function as entrances

Witchcraft!

So I've just bought the game a few days ago, but haven't been in the mood to load it up and play yet. I really enjoyed the first game, but it also frustrated me quite a bit at times with some bizarre design choices. For now I'm content to let it sit in my library until I have the patience for it. Very glad to see all the high praise in this thread though.

[factotum]

The game does a pretty good job of warning you when you hit points of no return.

I never thought leaving the fort *was* a point of no return, I just didn't see the point of leaving until I'd thoroughly explored the place. As things stand I just dinged level 5 after killing Kniles the Flenser, but I think it will still be a struggle to take out the High Judge and his adds with the equipment I've got (guy is heavily armoured and hits like a truck), so I'm going to leave the fort and come back for them later.

[Keltest]

I never thought leaving the fort *was* a point of no return, I just didn't see the point of leaving until I'd thoroughly explored the place. As things stand I just dinged level 5 after killing Kniles the Flenser, but I think it will still be a struggle to take out the High Judge and his adds with the equipment I've got (guy is heavily armoured and hits like a truck), so I'm going to leave the fort and come back for them later.

There are a few places that having a teleport ability on all your characters is extremely handy, just for exploration. The actual teleport spell cant be used to relocate the caster, so either get them a different spell to do it, or find a second person with teleport.

It threw me for a loop at first, because I saw a lot of inaccessible areas, and I didn't know Teleport was a thing at the time, so I assumed there had to be some way of getting there by land.

[warty goblin]

I never thought leaving the fort *was* a point of no return, I just didn't see the point of leaving until I'd thoroughly explored the place. As things stand I just dinged level 5 after killing Kniles the Flenser, but I think it will still be a struggle to take out the High Judge and his adds with the equipment I've got (guy is heavily armoured and hits like a truck), so I'm going to leave the fort and come back for them later.

Man being level 4 or 5 for that fight would have been nice. I think I was level 3. Fortunately Kniles rushed in and was promptly set on fire and poisoned, then tried to teleport out and managed to kill himself on the landing. The meat golems and silent monks weren't too much of a problem, since the golems lacked any armor, and the monks only had magical armor. Unfortunately for them I had just found a Blood Rain skillbook...

Still haven't found those damn teleport gauntlets.

[Anteros]

So do you guys recommend custom or origin characters? I don't particularly like any of the origin characters, but I also don't want to miss out on a bunch of the game's content just because I want a different backstory.

[Sholos]

In an amazing twist, the exits also function as entrances, for the most part. While not all of them will let you go back, if you can find where they let out on the other side, theres a decent chance you can break into the fort again from that direction.

The game does a pretty good job of warning you when you hit points of no return.

There's also the waypoint statue in the fort that you can always teleport back to.


Man being level 4 or 5 for that fight would have been nice. I think I was level 3. Fortunately Kniles rushed in and was promptly set on fire and poisoned, then tried to teleport out and managed to kill himself on the landing. The meat golems and silent monks weren't too much of a problem, since the golems lacked any armor, and the monks only had magical armor. Unfortunately for them I had just found a Blood Rain skillbook...

Still haven't found those damn teleport gauntlets.

There's a quest that points right to them. I'd recommend holding onto them for utility value.

[factotum]

Yeah, I don't think the crocodiles you have to kill to get the gauntlets will even spawn unless you've got the quest to kill them.

Explored some of the swamps, and have found a creature I can't kill and a lever I can't pull, so going to have to figure out how to do those at some point!

[Keltest]

Yeah, I don't think the crocodiles you have to kill to get the gauntlets will even spawn unless you've got the quest to kill them.

Explored some of the swamps, and have found a creature I can't kill and a lever I can't pull, so going to have to figure out how to do those at some point!

I can confirm that they DO spawn without the quest. That's how I found the gauntlets.

The lever is the cursed lever, correct? Where you rescue Gareth?

Well, You cant un-curse it until you get the ability to cast Bless. Find a Shrine to the Seven in a couple places around the swamp, step in a glowing puddle of Source, and get your collar off.

[Nadevoc]

There are a few places that having a teleport ability on all your characters is extremely handy, just for exploration. The actual teleport spell cant be used to relocate the caster, so either get them a different spell to do it, or find a second person with teleport.

It threw me for a loop at first, because I saw a lot of inaccessible areas, and I didn't know Teleport was a thing at the time, so I assumed there had to be some way of getting there by land.

You can use the gauntlets, then send them to the other character



So do you guys recommend custom or origin characters? I don't particularly like any of the origin characters, but I also don't want to miss out on a bunch of the game's content just because I want a different backstory.

You can get some neat dialogue options with the origin characters, but it's mostly the same (at least so far for me); it's pretty much just a bonus tag. You can also build the origin characters however you want, if it's just the builds you don't like.

[Vitruviansquid]

What kinds of characters are people running, and how are they doing with them?

I'm having troubles coming up with characters besides a wizard lizard that I would want to play in a second start of the game.

[factotum]

I just have four of the pre-rolls--that gives me range (Ifan), tank (Red Prince), and two mages (Lohse and Fane). Seems to work well enough.

Oh, and this is one of those rare games where I looked up at the clock ten minutes ago and realised it was twenty to one in the morning and I was nearly two hours past my normal bedtime--it is *amazing* to have one of those games again.

[Keltest]

I just have four of the pre-rolls--that gives me range (Ifan), tank (Red Prince), and two mages (Lohse and Fane). Seems to work well enough.

Oh, and this is one of those rare games where I looked up at the clock ten minutes ago and realised it was twenty to one in the morning and I was nearly two hours past my normal bedtime--it is *amazing* to have one of those games again.

I know, right? It happened to me as well.

Anyway, ive found that having the standard RPG mix of fighter (with a 2h weapon) rogue (with a bow), support caster and damage caster is well suited to handle most challenges. Fighter skills have a lot of crowd control even without a shield, so I can dish out some serious damage with the martials while the casters let loose with the status effects and healing.

I think they've done a good job of making sure that all playstyles are useful. Ive never really looked at one of my characters and said "yes, this person doesn't need to be on my team for success".

[Nadevoc]

What kinds of characters are people running, and how are they doing with them?

I'm having troubles coming up with characters besides a wizard lizard that I would want to play in a second start of the game.

I'm doing a double Lone Wolf run with my buddy. I'm going pretty straight archer (with a splash of hydrosophist to give some healing); archery seems incredibly powerful as long as you can get higher ground, which it seems you usually can. He's got a strength-based Necromancy/Polymorph fighter that charges in and steals all the enemies' health. So far so good! Although I'll admit we're still on the starting island; it can be a bit tricky to find play time with a nine hour time difference


I just have four of the pre-rolls--that gives me range (Ifan), tank (Red Prince), and two mages (Lohse and Fane). Seems to work well enough.

I'm pretty sure the Origin characters choose a random preset every time you enter character creation

[Murmaider]

I'm pretty sure the Origin characters choose a random preset every time you enter character creation

If you meet them later, they tell you their prefered class, but you can switch them to any other preset. Prince is a fighter, Fane a Wizard, Ibn a Wayfarer, Lohse a Enchanter, Sebille a Rogue and Beast a Battlemage.

I quite like a pure int inquisitor myself. Warfare and necromancy work pretty well together. And then there's polymorph. It's so good. You can take one level of it with any character and you barely lose out on anything.

Speaking of good. Pickpocket. It's very broken.

[factotum]

If you meet them later, they tell you their prefered class, but you can switch them to any other preset. Prince is a fighter, Fane a Wizard, Ibn a Wayfarer, Lohse a Enchanter, Sebille a Rogue and Beast a Battlemage.

And if you pick one to play yourself you can choose any character class you like--I kept Ifan as a ranger because his portrait has a crossbow in it, but I could have made him a mage or thief if I'd wanted to.

[factotum]

So, has anyone tried tackling the scarecrow gang in Driftwood? Those guys are *nails*, I barely managed to scratch them with a level 11 party despite them only being one level higher!

[Keltest]

So, has anyone tried tackling the scarecrow gang in Driftwood? Those guys are *nails*, I barely managed to scratch them with a level 11 party despite them only being one level higher!

I got my butt handed to me rather firmly by them, however I too was underleveled at the time. I suspect that by the time I'm ready to leave Reaper's Coast, they would be easier to defeat.

I also didn't really understand party composition then. I had one mage, Lohse, and didn't have any healing spells on her at the time.

[factotum]

I still haven't bought her a healing spell either, but then, I do have two other guys who can cast Restoration due to equipment--I need to get somebody an actual Teleport spell so I don't have to keep using the gloves from Fort Joy, because the stats on them are garbage.

Anyway, I found a way to deal with the scarecrows--they're quite close by to the paladin checkpoint, so if you can kite them there the paladins will do most of the work for you. Currently working my way round the second level of the wrecker's cave, will probably ding 12 before I finish that.

[Vitruviansquid]

Ohhhhhhh crap.

This whole time I assumed I would customize each character in the party, but there is actually no way to get the NPCs who join up with you to be anything but a preset class.

[The Hellbug]

Ohhhhhhh crap.

This whole time I assumed I would customize each character in the party, but there is actually no way to get the NPCs who join up with you to be anything but a preset class.

Actually, you can; it just takes a little bit of time. Once you get past the opening chunk, you get a mirror that lets you re-spec.

Once you defeat the bishop dude and capture the boat--it's on there.

[Sholos]

One criticism I have of this game is that some of the fights almost seem to require future knowledge to be doable.

I'm stuck on the Alexander fight with a friend. The gheist is capable of one-shotting most of us and I've no idea how you're supposed to deal with being attacked by the worn as well. The fight is blatantly unfair and not really fun.

[factotum]

This whole time I assumed I would customize each character in the party, but there is actually no way to get the NPCs who join up with you to be anything but a preset class.

That doesn't matter, because you still get to pick all the stat and skill allocations for the character once they're recruited, so you can twist their "preset" into anything you like. Plus there's the magic mirror the Hellbug mentions.


One criticism I have of this game is that some of the fights almost seem to require future knowledge to be doable.



Bear in mind that the magisters and the worm are hostile to each other--if you can arrange things so that your nastiest opponents are attacking the worm, not you, it makes the battle a lot easier. It does involve a bit of luck to get that to happen, though, that much is true.

[Nadevoc]

I haven't hit the fight you reference yet, but I really enjoy the difficulty of fights. A lot of times, you have to adapt your tactics to fit a hard fight. Sometimes you hit a fight and realize that you should probably go do something else until you get a level or two and come back. Things like scrolls and potions feel like a valuable, necessary tool to ration as opposed to most games where it seems you're always saving them for a hard fight that never actually comes.

[factotum]

Yeah, there have been a few fights where I've either reloaded or hit the Flee button to grind up a level or two before trying again.

[Cazero]

And then there are fights where you want to protect NPCs from their own stupidity. I'm talking about "running around in the fire to get a potshot throwing knife on the front of a different target than the one you could already shoot from the safety of the forcefield on blessed water" stupid. I had to reload that fight so many times.

[Keltest]

And then there are fights where you want to protect NPCs from their own stupidity. I'm talking about "running around in the fire to get a potshot throwing knife on the front of a different target than the one you could already shoot from the safety of the forcefield on blessed water" stupid. I had to reload that fight so many times.

Is that the one on the oil fields? I hated that fight.

[Cazero]

Is that the one on the oil fields? I hated that fight.
Yes. Yes it is.
Also, necroflames everywhere makes my computer laggy.

[factotum]

Well, I messed up:


I had such a swine of a time defeating Mordus that, when I spoke to him afterward, I just killed him straight away--forgetting that he's one of the guys you're supposed to get extra Source training from. Let's hope that doesn't bite me in the butt later on!

[Keltest]

Well, I messed up:


I had such a swine of a time defeating Mordus that, when I spoke to him afterward, I just killed him straight away--forgetting that he's one of the guys you're supposed to get extra Source training from. Let's hope that doesn't bite me in the butt later on!


Off hand I can think of about five others who can teach you, with varying degrees of moral offense along the way.


Theres Mordus, obviously, but theres also Hannag the lizard. You need to beat up magisters fighting her, then go do that annoying fight on the oil platform. Theres a demon hunter who is needed for Lohse's quest; he wants you to kill a Demon on Bloodmoon Island. That demon can also teach you, in exchange for killing some Black Ring goons on the same Island. Freeing Saheila from the Lone Wolves results in her teaching you more Source. I believe the Lone Wolf Assassin in the graveyard can also teach you, but I was already maxed out when I ran into him, and he bit the dust. I think theres a couple others as well that I didn't run into or didn't finish their quests enough to know for sure.

[Anteros]

I'm having trouble getting into this game. I legitimately enjoy the combat sections. I'm playing on hard, and it's refreshing to have a tactical game that actually challenges you and rewards you for creative thinking.

That said, the talking parts are just leaving me completely disinterested. I normally enjoy these types of games too, so I don't know what the problem is. Part of it is probably that the character you're playing feels like it lacks personality since your dialogue options are all *Tell him to do this* instead of actual dialogue. Very lazy writing.

That can't be the whole problem though. I'm going to keep playing and see if it picks up for me.

[factotum]

Are you playing a pre-rolled character or a custom one, Anteros? I've not noticed that with Ifan's dialogue, and don't forget you often get different dialogue options depending which character you use to initiate the conversation.

I've got a question about Source. Does anyone else find the Source abilities a bit, well, meh? Every other ability in the game just has a cooldown before it can be used again, whereas Source abilities require a rare material that is only found in certain rare locations...so IMHO the Source abilities ought to be a lot more swingy and powerful than they are. Lohse's ability (to send enemies mad and make them attack each other) seems good on the surface, until you find it's blocked by magic armour and thus it's generally useless for what you'd want to use it for, e.g. taking a couple of enemies out of the way at the beginning of the battle to make things easier. Ifan's wolf seems cool, but I've specced him as a Summoner and his fully-buffed Incarnate is just as powerful while having a lot more tactical options. Are there more powerful abilities you get later in the game that are actually worth the effort of using?

[VexingFool]

Some source abilities are good some are bad. Ifan's is generally considered weak but Fane's is considered very strong. The custom character source power Dome of Protection is pretty good. Several of the high level skills require source and are quite good.

You can leave a teleporter pyramid near a source point and popback to recharge real quick, you can also recharge source via Purge.

[Nadevoc]

I'm having trouble getting into this game. I legitimately enjoy the combat sections. I'm playing on hard, and it's refreshing to have a tactical game that actually challenges you and rewards you for creative thinking.

That said, the talking parts are just leaving me completely disinterested. I normally enjoy these types of games too, so I don't know what the problem is. Part of it is probably that the character you're playing feels like it lacks personality since your dialogue options are all *Tell him to do this* instead of actual dialogue. Very lazy writing.

That can't be the whole problem though. I'm going to keep playing and see if it picks up for me.

Yeah, that was a weird choice with the dialogue I think - especially since it's not consistent. Sometimes it's an actual response, and other times it's "*Tell him that's a bad idea*". I'm guessing the idea is that it lets you fill in your character's dialogue yourself, which I can understand; there are games where basically every dialogue choice I go "No, that wording/phrasing/whatever is freaking terrible. I don't want to say that."

Overall, though, I'm enjoying the lore. The Origin character I'm playing (Lohse) seems to have a pretty cool story, and I like how basically every lizard reacts specially to the Red Prince (who my friend is playing).



I've got a question about Source. Does anyone else find the Source abilities a bit, well, meh? Every other ability in the game just has a cooldown before it can be used again, whereas Source abilities require a rare material that is only found in certain rare locations...so IMHO the Source abilities ought to be a lot more swingy and powerful than they are. Lohse's ability (to send enemies mad and make them attack each other) seems good on the surface, until you find it's blocked by magic armour and thus it's generally useless for what you'd want to use it for, e.g. taking a couple of enemies out of the way at the beginning of the battle to make things easier. Ifan's wolf seems cool, but I've specced him as a Summoner and his fully-buffed Incarnate is just as powerful while having a lot more tactical options. Are there more powerful abilities you get later in the game that are actually worth the effort of using?

I was super excited to finally get a chance to use my Source ability (Maddening Song), and then it was just blocked by magic armor on every target. Felt SUPER underwhelming (especially since our builds tend not to burn through magic armor). Gotta agree that it felt awful lame for a special ability that uses a rare resource.

One thing that's unclear to me (might have just missed a tooltip). How exactly does armor work when it comes to blocking status effects? Is it guaranteed to block if you still have some left, with the chance dropping significantly one your armor is depleted?

[factotum]

One thing that's unclear to me (might have just missed a tooltip). How exactly does armor work when it comes to blocking status effects? Is it guaranteed to block if you still have some left, with the chance dropping significantly one your armor is depleted?

From what I've seen, the armour blocks 100% if it's up and then not at all when it's not--so you can hit a guy who has 1 magic armour left with a fireball and he won't immediately catch fire, because he had armour when the fire damage was applied. Could be wrong on that, though.

[Nadevoc]

From what I've seen, the armour blocks 100% if it's up and then not at all when it's not--so you can hit a guy who has 1 magic armour left with a fireball and he won't immediately catch fire, because he had armour when the fire damage was applied. Could be wrong on that, though.

I've definitely seen armor block effects when their armor's completely depleted, and people get afflicted with Burning by the same attack that strips the last of their magic armor. So I think it's more complex than that, but I haven't managed to find details anywhere

[warty goblin]

I've definitely seen armor block effects when their armor's completely depleted, and people get afflicted with Burning by the same attack that strips the last of their magic armor. So I think it's more complex than that, but I haven't managed to find details anywhere

I suspect it has something to do with surfaces, so a person with remaining Magic Armor will resist getting set on fire by the fireball, the ground becomes a fire surface, and they then catch fire from that.

(If you want to remove magic armor, just give a character a pair of wands, preferably in a combo like poison+fire or (I'd guess, haven't tried it) water + electric. My main can rip through about sixty magic armor with a double attack, which usually means that target is poisoned and on fire on top of a flaming surface)

[Keltest]

If an attack removes the remaining armor and it has an effect attached to it, then it will apply that effect. The way it seems to be is it applies the damage and then checks for remaining armor.

Anyway, source becomes significantly easier to get once you get off the Island, as you gain an ability that lets you turn corpses into source points and even suck them away from other characters (though its blocked by magic armor). You can upgrade your source capacity to hold up to 3 points. You can get Source Vampirism (like Purge on the wands, only shorter range) once you have at least 2 points.

[factotum]

(If you want to remove magic armor, just give a character a pair of wands, preferably in a combo like poison+fire or (I'd guess, haven't tried it) water + electric. My main can rip through about sixty magic armor with a double attack, which usually means that target is poisoned and on fire on top of a flaming surface)

You find 60 magic to be a powerful attack? Guessing you've not met the level 12 voidwoken with getting on for 1200 magic armour, in that case! :smallwink: I've found the only way to deal with those is to restrict my casters to buffing, healing, and any physical attacks they might have (e.g. Teleportation), while Red Prince and Ifan go to town on the much weaker physical armour.

[warty goblin]

You find 60 magic to be a powerful attack? Guessing you've not met the level 12 voidwoken with getting on for 1200 magic armour, in that case! :smallwink: I've found the only way to deal with those is to restrict my casters to buffing, healing, and any physical attacks they might have (e.g. Teleportation), while Red Prince and Ifan go to town on the much weaker physical armour.

That would be because I'm level 3 or 4.

[factotum]

Oh, believe me, what works well at level 4 doesn't tend to work so well at level 12. You'll have better wands, and your higher Intelligence will mean you're doing more damage, but even so I wouldn't expect you to top 120 damage with a regular attack, and against the aforementioned guys with 1200 magic armour they barely notice it--and that's assuming they haven't hit you with an Atrophy that makes you unable to use weapons of any kind. You need to rely a lot more heavily on your abilities to deal damage at the higher levels.

[Rising Phoenix]

Love the world, love the characters, but golly inventory management and ability learning is clunky.

And I never seem to have enough gold to by the things I need. I either don't have good abilities or my equipment sucks.

[VexingFool]

And I never seem to have enough gold to by the things I need. I either don't have good abilities or my equipment sucks.

If you want to buy a lot of books/gear from a particular vendor increase your reputation with them to 100 with your highest Bartering skill character. You can do this by giving/bribing them 100gp or the equal amount of your junk items. Don't trade your high value items until you have increased the rep and are using your best bartering character (I like Ifan he has a bartering of 3 when you get him). This pays off if you are going to buy 2+ high cost items from them. Some vendors take a bit more gold to increase their rep and the amount scales with higher level vendors but it is still worth it.

Afterwards you can steal back your bribe plus any other loot with your highest Thievery skill character if you want.

[factotum]

And I never seem to have enough gold to by the things I need. I either don't have good abilities or my equipment sucks.

Even low-level abilities can do a decent amount of damage if your skills and stats are set up right. The basic Hail Storm skill Lohse has is only a level 1 ability, but it deals well over 100 damage at level 12 due to her high Intelligence and Hydrosophist skill. So, don't sweat it so much over the abilities, you should concentrate on getting the better equipment because you'll live longer and thus naturally do more damage.

[Cozzer]

I just got to Driftwood and I'm loving this game!
Some fights can get pretty frustrating, but for now I could always get past them by changing my approach, being more liberal with single-use items or just doing a few other quests first.

[Rising Phoenix]

Thanks for the tips peeps...

I am now swimming in cash as the game just throws high level items left right and centre at this stage...

I am in the second act, but golly it's taking forever to do all the things i want to do...I mean I could just leave stuff for a second playthrough...

Hmm, what level is a good level to leave driftwood at? I am currently level 14...but there some


level 16 mobs running about

Should I wait till I am higher level?

[Keltest]

Thanks for the tips peeps...

I am now swimming in cash as the game just throws high level items left right and centre at this stage...

I am in the second act, but golly it's taking forever to do all the things i want to do...I mean I could just leave stuff for a second playthrough...

Hmm, what level is a good level to leave driftwood at? I am currently level 14...but there some


level 16 mobs running about

Should I wait till I am higher level?

If you leave at 14, you can probably handle the Island, but frankly I would explore everything there is to do anyway. I've discovered that the game has a bit of an annoying habit of just assuming that you discovered any plot hooks if you stumble into the middle part of a quest that you never got the beginning for.

[factotum]

Wow. I just had the most intense battle of the game in the Blackpits in Driftwood. For anyone who's also done that, it's the one with all the Oil and Fire Voidlings. Just trying to damage the enemy while not moving (due to the entire screen being on fire!) required a lot of tactical thought, and the Hydrosophist skill that regenerates magic armour for everyone was utterly invaluable.

[Keltest]

Wow. I just had the most intense battle of the game in the Blackpits in Driftwood. For anyone who's also done that, it's the one with all the Oil and Fire Voidlings. Just trying to damage the enemy while not moving (due to the entire screen being on fire!) required a lot of tactical thought, and the Hydrosophist skill that regenerates magic armour for everyone was utterly invaluable.

yeah, hydro mages rule that fight no question.

[factotum]

Just cheesed a later fight by using crates to block the ladders leading up to the wooden platform I was standing on--the bad guys who had teleport-like abilities could still get up there, of course, but the rest had to stay below and eat my high damage due to height advantage! :smallwink:

[Anteros]

If you want to buy a lot of books/gear from a particular vendor increase your reputation with them to 100 with your highest Bartering skill character. You can do this by giving/bribing them 100gp or the equal amount of your junk items. Don't trade your high value items until you have increased the rep and are using your best bartering character (I like Ifan he has a bartering of 3 when you get him). This pays off if you are going to buy 2+ high cost items from them. Some vendors take a bit more gold to increase their rep and the amount scales with higher level vendors but it is still worth it.

Afterwards you can steal back your bribe plus any other loot with your highest Thievery skill character if you want.

Don't you find that this breaks the difficulty curve of the game? I know the game practically encourages you to do it, but it just feels too cheap to me. I want to win games like this with my strategic builds and tactics, not because I can cheese the system into infinite resources.

Is anyone else playing on tactician? So far I'm feeling like the only actual added tactical aspect is that enemies have 2 or 3 times more health and armor than on normal. It is admittedly more difficult, but it's the type of difficulty where fights just take more rounds as you whittle the enemies down rather than the fun kind where the enemy is actually smarter. I'm considering a restart. Not because it's too hard, but simply because the play style it seems to require is fairly boring and repetitive.

[factotum]

You can change difficulty without restarting, can't you?

Anyway, I think I'm coming to the end of Driftwood. I've explored everywhere and am just clearing out Bloodmoon Island. I got around to finishing off the Driftmoon Arena, which was a bit of an anti-climax--to qualify to fight the champion you have to fight four guys blindfolded, which is a bit of a challenge, but then the champion (who isn't significantly tougher than any one of those four guys) challenges you alone? I'm not sure she even managed to get an attack in before she died!

[Anteros]

You can change difficulty without restarting, can't you?


You'd think so, but no. Really strange design decision there.

At least you can't change from Tactician to something else.

[Mikeavelli]

Wow. I just had the most intense battle of the game in the Blackpits in Driftwood. For anyone who's also done that, it's the one with all the Oil and Fire Voidlings. Just trying to damage the enemy while not moving (due to the entire screen being on fire!) required a lot of tactical thought, and the Hydrosophist skill that regenerates magic armour for everyone was utterly invaluable.

This one is a treat. You already beat it, but for anyone else having problems...

There's actually a raised bluff away from the gallows derrick thing. What you can do to make the fight not-quite-so-impossible is send one guy up into the gallows to trigger the fight starting, then you teleport the NPC away over to that Bluff (you should be able to reach it with your added range) - then you follow him with a self-teleport ability like Phoenix Dive. Make sure the majority of your party is already positioned on top of the bluff.

Let the Magisters fight off the slimes, and pick off the slimes one by one as the majority of them have to travel all the way around the gallows derrick thing to reach you.

I'm playing on Tactician mode, so trying to do this battle the "intended" way of huddling up on top of the gallows holding your ground against an onslaught of enemies was pretty much impossible.

[factotum]

I don't think I would have wanted that fight to be any harder than it was, glad I'm in Classic Mode! Oh, Anteros, I checked--the game will allow you to switch freely between Explorer and Classic mode, but if you start on Tactician you can't change it.

Anyway, hit level 17 and have left Driftwood now, on to the Nameless Isle!

[Cozzer]

I just did that battle (normal difficulty), it was pretty great! Lately, the various parts of the system have started coming together for me, and the game has become extremely fun.

But now I'm stuck at the Eternal tomb boss. :smallfrown: I'll have to teleport back to Driftwood and take care of a few more sidequests...

[Anteros]

Yeah I restarted on classic and it's much more enjoyable. Tactician is doable but not fun (to me). Every fight turns into a long drawn out battle of attrition. With classic I'm getting to actually enjoy the combat system instead of cheesing every fight with kiting or summons. Or abusing the AI.

[factotum]

But now I'm stuck at the Eternal tomb boss. :smallfrown: I'll have to teleport back to Driftwood and take care of a few more sidequests...

That one is hard--I first tried it with a level 13 party and got roflstomped; her and her dogs may only be level 14 but they don't mess around. I came back with a level 15 party, started off with a Chain Lightning of my own to match hers, and things went a lot better that time (although Fane still died, because the dogs seemed to find his bones delicious and kept concentrating their attacks on him).

[Rynjin]

Don't you find that this breaks the difficulty curve of the game? I know the game practically encourages you to do it, but it just feels too cheap to me. I want to win games like this with my strategic builds and tactics, not because I can cheese the system into infinite resources.

Is anyone else playing on tactician? So far I'm feeling like the only actual added tactical aspect is that enemies have 2 or 3 times more health and armor than on normal. It is admittedly more difficult, but it's the type of difficulty where fights just take more rounds as you whittle the enemies down rather than the fun kind where the enemy is actually smarter. I'm considering a restart. Not because it's too hard, but simply because the play style it seems to require is fairly boring and repetitive.

I dunno, I find that on Tactician enemies tend to do a lot less dumb ****. I'm playing 4p with a group on Tactician and Lone Wolf (Fane+Lohse) game on Classic on my own. In the former, enemies tend to combo abilities well and try not to waste moves.

In the latter I had one enemy spend four rounds meandering about and casting stuff like Favourable Winds and Blinding Radiance on themselves...which they let run out before approaching either of my party.

[Sholos]

This game is very easy to rage at.

So there's the area in the graveyard with the heroes' tombs that prompts a fight as soon as you check the fourth tomb. Now, outs bad enough that there's a surprise fight against enemies over my level. But this fight with it's BS auto-rezzing of enemies to ridiculous levels... It's literally a case of, "Get party-wiped, load save from hopefully not too far back, play again except with magic future knowledge." It adds up to fights being oftentimes more frustrating than fun unless you massivelly outpower the encounter in which case it's boring. I never feel like I'm playing smart unless I'm cheesing, and that feels more like I found an exploit than good game design.

On a less touchy sunject, how are people distributing stats? I've been splitting between a character's damage stat, Wits, and occasional Memory, but that means I'm neglecting Constitution. How important is it to have a high damage stat? It feels like even with the pumping I've done, I'm only barely managing to stay relevant in fights where just twi or three attacks can kill or severely harm you.

[Keltest]

This game is very easy to rage at.

So there's the area in the graveyard with the heroes' tombs that prompts a fight as soon as you check the fourth tomb. Now, outs bad enough that there's a surprise fight against enemies over my level. But this fight with it's BS auto-rezzing of enemies to ridiculous levels... It's literally a case of, "Get party-wiped, load save from hopefully not too far back, play again except with magic future knowledge." It adds up to fights being oftentimes more frustrating than fun unless you massivelly outpower the encounter in which case it's boring. I never feel like I'm playing smart unless I'm cheesing, and that feels more like I found an exploit than good game design.

On a less touchy sunject, how are people distributing stats? I've been splitting between a character's damage stat, Wits, and occasional Memory, but that means I'm neglecting Constitution. How important is it to have a high damage stat? It feels like even with the pumping I've done, I'm only barely managing to stay relevant in fights where just twi or three attacks can kill or severely harm you.

It depends a little bit on the party comp, but ill usually put both points into my damage/armor stat. If I'm using a shield, ill split between the damage stat and con, because shields need con to equip, and on my rogue I do the same, but for wits instead of con. I only really drop points in memory once I start running out of spellbook space. If I'm not using a shield, I ignore con entirely. The armor stats from gear are just so much more important to survivability because they block status effects. If I run out of armor and start taking HP damage, that character is going to get CC's to uselessness anyway.

If I'm playing, say, a battlemage that uses melee and magic abilities, ill split between both damage stats.

[factotum]

I've actually been concentrating on Con and my main damage stats, with occasional points into Memory. I've barely been touching Wits--I think the 2 points I put into Ifan's Wit when I went from level 17 to 18 were the first ones I'd put in there.

Survivability is pretty darned good, though, he's got over 4000 hit points at this level!

[Keltest]

I've actually been concentrating on Con and my main damage stats, with occasional points into Memory. I've barely been touching Wits--I think the 2 points I put into Ifan's Wit when I went from level 17 to 18 were the first ones I'd put in there.

Survivability is pretty darned good, though, he's got over 4000 hit points at this level!

Wits are important. There are quite a few quests you cant finish without sufficient wits to locate hidden objects like switches and levers that let you physically advance.

[factotum]

I've not found a problem with that so far, and I'm halfway through the Nameless Isle. There are generally other methods to get past doors--for instance, a dungeon-style door (e.g. the ones made of crossed iron bars) will usually allow you to teleport someone to the other side. Or you can often just destroy the door (using your bow/crossbow to avoid taking weapon damage).

[Keltest]

I've not found a problem with that so far, and I'm halfway through the Nameless Isle. There are generally other methods to get past doors--for instance, a dungeon-style door (e.g. the ones made of crossed iron bars) will usually allow you to teleport someone to the other side. Or you can often just destroy the door (using your bow/crossbow to avoid taking weapon damage).
ooof. Well, not to spoil anything for you, but

You actually left behind a rather powerful artifact when you did that. And did you just not bring Tarquin with you again? The necromancer is a fount of plot exposition, not to mention a good vendor, but you need a good wits score to finish the quest that brings him back on the boat.

[factotum]

Tarquin is on the boat just fine? Oh, and I did miss creating his artifact in Driftwood, but not because of low wit, because I simply forgot to finish the quest before leaving the place and it doesn't give you any options to continue it when you reach the Isle.

[Anteros]

This game is very easy to rage at.

So there's the area in the graveyard with the heroes' tombs that prompts a fight as soon as you check the fourth tomb. Now, outs bad enough that there's a surprise fight against enemies over my level. But this fight with it's BS auto-rezzing of enemies to ridiculous levels... It's literally a case of, "Get party-wiped, load save from hopefully not too far back, play again except with magic future knowledge." It adds up to fights being oftentimes more frustrating than fun unless you massivelly outpower the encounter in which case it's boring. I never feel like I'm playing smart unless I'm cheesing, and that feels more like I found an exploit than good game design.


Pretty much my exact complaint as well with the tactician mode. I feel like I'm exploiting the system and future knowledge of fights to win fights rather than using clever tactics. It's a bit better on normal, but not completely.

It doesn't help that the system is so very easy to break that things that would seem like legitimate tactics in other games (summoning, kiting enemies, etc) feel like exploits. The fights just always feel lopsided. Either I use the overpowered strategies and blow throw with no difficulty, or I give the computer a straight fight and I'm at a huge disadvantage.

[Anteros]

So...Arbitrarily and permanently killing half my party members just because they weren't with me for one fight is a...strange decision. I like that the game is bold enough to kill a party member. I don't like that it's completely arbitrary with nothing I can do to avoid or change it. I definitely don't like that a huge portion of the character's plots are now inaccessible to me without a replay. Especially since that's the only parts of the plot I actually care about. The main plot is a snooze.

Seeing how the different characters would play out their plot lines was the main thing driving me to keep playing, and there's no way I care enough to go through twice. I honestly might just drop the game entirely now. It's a shame it's too late for a refund.

I might just shelve it and keep an eye out for a mod that changes this.

[factotum]

They do kind of show up again, but not until the end of chapter 5 (Nameless Isle). Wouldn't it have been an absolute pain to keep swapping out party members so you could do all their quests anyway? Especially since you often don't *know* what the next stage of their quest is until you meet someone and they say, "I must speak to this person now!".


On an unrelated note, got a weird bug in Arx--not long after I arrived the entire map is suddenly revealed to me? You can even see that all the indoor and underground areas are separate sections around the edge of the main map, because they're all visible too!

[Anteros]

They do kind of show up again, but not until the end of chapter 5 (Nameless Isle). Wouldn't it have been an absolute pain to keep swapping out party members so you could do all their quests anyway? Especially since you often don't *know* what the next stage of their quest is until you meet someone and they say, "I must speak to this person now!".


On an unrelated note, got a weird bug in Arx--not long after I arrived the entire map is suddenly revealed to me? You can even see that all the indoor and underground areas are separate sections around the edge of the main map, because they're all visible too!

Every other CRPG that has ever existed has managed to do it, so I don't think it's that big of a pain. It's one of the main draws of these types of games.

[Keltest]

Every other CRPG that has ever existed has managed to do it, so I don't think it's that big of a pain. It's one of the main draws of these types of games.

It would probably be mechanically possible, but given that you need to convince your party members that they like you enough to let you be Divine, I can understand why they wanted to keep it restrained to just a few people in your party to focus on.

Additionally, most of the time my companions told me what to look for next, if not exactly where to look for it. It was less clear in Arx, but by that point most of the companion's personal quests started to intertwine with the main quest enough that I was completing them incidentally.

[Anteros]

It doesn't have to be written that way though. That's an intentional design decision that was made. Like I said, virtually every other CRPG in existence avoids that problem by writing proper companion plot-lines with clear story hooks.

This game is full of some very lazy writing. Like the way characters suddenly lose all personality when you're controlling them because they were too lazy to write unique dialogue. This is just another particularly egregious example of it.

In a lot of ways this game is a severe regression from the first.

I want to like this game. I really do. I love CRPGs and I love tactical games. I keep giving it more chances despite the fact that it frustrates me every time I boot it up. I get that they're a small studio, but these aren't engine limitations or things that happened because they ran out of money. It's intentional design choices.

[Chen]

It doesn't have to be written that way though. That's an intentional design decision that was made. Like I said, virtually every other CRPG in existence avoids that problem by writing proper companion plot-lines with clear story hooks.

This game is full of some very lazy writing. Like the way characters suddenly lose all personality when you're controlling them because they were too lazy to write unique dialogue. This is just another particularly egregious example of it.

In a lot of ways this game is a severe regression from the first.

I want to like this game. I really do. I love CRPGs and I love tactical games. I keep giving it more chances despite the fact that it frustrates me every time I boot it up. I get that they're a small studio, but these aren't engine limitations or things that happened because they ran out of money. It's intentional design choices.

DialogueThe unique parts of the Dialogues come via the tags. The named tags are the personality based ones. While clearly not completely different for each person, I think its a good compromise between trying to write out entirely unique dialog for each character. I think that's why most of the dialogue choices are more statements about what you're saying rather than exact words.

Companion questsI'm pretty sure the intent was so you couldn't do them all in one playthrough to give the game replayability. I'd say its about as limiting as BG2 trying to keep good and evil characters in the same party. You could certainly manage to do all their quests but it's pretty convoluted to do so and stay in character

[huttj509]

Just got the game (decided not to wait for a sale). Something I felt overwhelmed me with OS1 was character creation. I don't want to look up skill guides, but at the same time I don't want to make characters who, well, actually don't work well together. Like putting down water, turning it to steam, and then realizing my archer can't hit that guy.

Just...trying to look for build traps, ya know?

[Rynjin]

Just got the game (decided not to wait for a sale). Something I felt overwhelmed me with OS1 was character creation. I don't want to look up skill guides, but at the same time I don't want to make characters who, well, actually don't work well together. Like putting down water, turning it to steam, and then realizing my archer can't hit that guy.

Just...trying to look for build traps, ya know?

OS 2 is way more forgiving since you can respec whenever you like once you get through the first act.

I've also found that most abilities synergize well together. The main thing you want to watch out for is since Magic and Physical damage chip away at different sets of armor, it's usually better to either have every character in your party able to do at least some of both or specialize HARD into doing only one type across the board.

[Keltest]

OS 2 is way more forgiving since you can respec whenever you like once you get through the first act.

I've also found that most abilities synergize well together. The main thing you want to watch out for is since Magic and Physical damage chip away at different sets of armor, it's usually better to either have every character in your party able to do at least some of both or specialize HARD into doing only one type across the board.

Personally, I favor the latter. Rogues with Scoundrel and tanks with Warfare do respectable physical damage, while Pyrokinetic and Aerotheurge are both good spell damage lines.

Geomancer and Hydrosophist make good partner skills for Pyro and Aero respectively mages because they create complimentary surfaces, and can regenerate physical and magic armor (and HP for hydro) on allies to boot.

[Rynjin]

I'm playing a Lone Wolf game (Fane and Lohse, the dynamic duo) as my first solo game (I keep trying to play with friends but we never get past Fort Joy since you have to start a new game for every combination of new people you want to play with), and at level 7 I'm enjoying having two characters that can do a bit of both. Fane is specced into Warfare/Necromancy/Geomancy/Polymorph while Lohse is Hydro/Aero/Summoning/Huntsman (with a smattering of Pyro) and it works really well with her cracking most of the magic armor and Fane using Medusa Head, or both cracking the physical armor and applying debuffs from stuff like Battle Stomp and Crippling Shot.

[factotum]

The main thing you want to watch out for is since Magic and Physical damage chip away at different sets of armor, it's usually better to either have every character in your party able to do at least some of both or specialize HARD into doing only one type across the board.

I disagree there--I think the best combo is to have two heavy physical hitters and two heavy magic hitters. In most fights where you're facing multiple enemies, some of the enemies will be relatively weak on physical armour and some will be weak to magic, so it makes those fights easier if two of your guys can concentrate on the ones who are weak to physical while the other two concentrate on the weak to magic ones.

Trying to produce a single character who does both magical and physical damage is near impossible unless you make everyone a Summoner, IMHO--you have to put as many of your attribute points as possible into whatever attribute makes your attacks stronger, and for physical attackers that means Strength or Finesse, while magic attackers need to pump Intelligence.

[Cozzer]

Well, there are a few magic spells (Necromancer or Geomancer, as far as I've seen) that target physical armor, so your Int mage can become decent at doing both types of damage, though it will never be his speciality. I haven't found a way to make warriors good at damaging magic armor, but I have two physical damage dealers and they can just focus on the same enemy and wear him down even if he has lots of physical armor.

[huttj509]

Pickpocketing seems to be either "steal and book it out of dodge multiple screens away, preferably while having someone talking to the victim" or "don't bother." Is this an accurate assessment?

[Chen]

Pickpocketing seems to be either "steal and book it out of dodge multiple screens away, preferably while having someone talking to the victim" or "don't bother." Is this an accurate assessment?

I haven't failed a persuade check yet to talk my way out of being confronted after stealing.

[Cazero]

Pickpocketing seems to be either "steal and book it out of dodge multiple screens away, preferably while having someone talking to the victim" or "don't bother." Is this an accurate assessment?
You can also get rid of the evidence. For example, if you steal skill books you can learn the skills immediately and the search won't give you up.
Worst case scenario, steal only the gold. It will be merged in the pile of gold you already have.

[huttj509]

Another thing...

So I have a rogue-type (backstabby goodness), a fighter (might weave in some necromancy for self healing, or I hear polymorph's good for melee str types), a water/air caster, and an earth/fire caster.

It really showed in a fight against one guy, but omg splash damage. I think my fire wands were also trying to ignite my melee combatants, and all the magic was doing ground effects, etc.

How do I avoid friendly fire...or friendly poison...

[factotum]

I personally don't worry too much about friendly fire. Standing in fire doesn't actually do much damage, especially if your magic armour is still up, while your enemies will take a lot more damage by trying to move through the fire to reach you. If you can avoid hitting other party members then great, but don't obsess over it.

[Anteros]

You can also get rid of the evidence. For example, if you steal skill books you can learn the skills immediately and the search won't give you up.
Worst case scenario, steal only the gold. It will be merged in the pile of gold you already have.

I have definitely been attacked at least once so far when I didn't even have any stolen items in my inventory.


a fighter (might weave in some necromancy for self healing,


Just FYI but I tried this and found it largely worthless. Typically if you're down to your HP instead of your shields then that character is CCed out of the fight anyway.

Anyway, I typically try to avoid friendly fire by focusing my 2 melee guys and my 2 magic guys on different targets. It's usually better to have them split focus so you can strip an armor type from multiple enemies anyway.

[Rynjin]

I have definitely been attacked at least once so far when I didn't even have any stolen items in my inventory.

Did you try talking your way out of things? People get hostile if you lie or refuse a search, but if you submit to the search and they find nothing you're cool.

[Anteros]

Did you try talking your way out of things? People get hostile if you lie or refuse a search, but if you submit to the search and they find nothing you're cool.

No I submitted to the search. It was at the start of the game, and I picked up a book on the ship on accident so I dropped it immediately and submitted to the search. They didn't find anything but said I was still suspicious and gave me a persuasion check that I failed.

[Anteros]

So another day another bug. This one is a doozy. Any time I inflict a status effect on an enemy it's going onto one of my characters as well. They don't even have to be anywhere near each other or sharing a puddle or anything either. Pretty ridiculous.

Also...sightlines. Does the computer even use them? I can't count the number of times it has hit me with something that should require sight at the end of their turn, and then on my turn when I go to shoot them back there's no vision. The line-of-sight system as a whole in this game seems pretty wonky most of the time. I'd like to know how it works because there's nothing more frustrating than positioning a character where they should have a clear shot at the enemy and being told they are being blocked by some invisible object. Especially when the computer can seemingly shoot right through them.

[factotum]

Are you sure that second one isn't a range thing? The range of many spells and arrows depends on the relative height between you and the enemy--if you're shooting upwards then you have a shorter range, while shooting downwards increases your range. So, someone standing above you can hit you with a ranged attack when you potentially can't hit them back.

Also, you need to move your aiming point around slightly--it's often possible to get a shot on an enemy which would hit an object if you're aiming at one part of them, but which gets through if you're aiming at another part. Works better with larger enemies, of course, but even on human-sized ones I've had situations like that.

[Anteros]

Are you sure that second one isn't a range thing? The range of many spells and arrows depends on the relative height between you and the enemy--if you're shooting upwards then you have a shorter range, while shooting downwards increases your range. So, someone standing above you can hit you with a ranged attack when you potentially can't hit them back.

Also, you need to move your aiming point around slightly--it's often possible to get a shot on an enemy which would hit an object if you're aiming at one part of them, but which gets through if you're aiming at another part. Works better with larger enemies, of course, but even on human-sized ones I've had situations like that.

I've had it happen when I had the high ground. Get attacked and when I go to attack back it has that whole portion greyed out because it's "blocked". Not the biggest deal in the world, I'd just like to know why it happens.

[factotum]

Smoke or steam obscuring your view? That's the only other thing I can think of that causes weird stuff like that.

[Keltest]

Smoke or steam obscuring your view? That's the only other thing I can think of that causes weird stuff like that.

Obscuration typically works both ways.

However, ive found a lot of the time what theyre actually doing is targeting something like, say, a corpse, that actually is in their sight range, and letting the AoE hit you when they normally couldn't. Pay attention to who, exactly, it says theyre targeting.

[Chen]

I've had it happen when I had the high ground. Get attacked and when I go to attack back it has that whole portion greyed out because it's "blocked". Not the biggest deal in the world, I'd just like to know why it happens.

Was it the same kind of attack?

Some attacks are directly lines (Fireball), some are arcs (searing daggers) and some just directly occur (Buffs, Healing, Impalement). Each have different restrictions on how they can be used. You can be in a situation where an obstacle prevents the direct lines but not the arcs. And the last ones where the effect just occurs don't seem to have restrictions except LOS and range.

[Sholos]

Also the computer absolutely cheats and has perfect knowledge of where sightlines are at all times. It's a little bit frustrating sometimes.

[huttj509]

Remember kids, save early, save often.

I got past a major capstone fight, was wandering round a ship, and wound up dying. Thought I had quicksaved before the death. Nope. My quicksave was *before* the capstone fight. I lost bout 2 hours of gameplay. Game didn't even autosave on the ship in the new chapter.

[Chen]

Some spoilers for the end of the Nameless isle but with a pretty annoying bug
So after the Dallis screws you out of your divinity, there's a fight where there are these eruptions that create insta-kill lava. I beat this the first time but it seems some of the lava carried back to the ship and killed Lohse. But the big problem was that it interrupted the scripted return dialog and it messed up some scripting which allows the romance plots to continue. It just dumps you back into the next chapter without any of the proper end of chapter scripting. Something to keep and eye out for. Also, loot the big guy before fleeing the collapsing temple because its super worth it (only one person needs to touch the beacon to leave so its easy enough to avoid the lava).

[factotum]

Completed the entire game last night, and I'm glad to report that the tradition of crappy final boss fights has been carried over from the first game. Took me four attempts to win, and then I was dropped straight into a conversation where I had to pick what to do next, with no real indication of what the options *mean*--so I picked what I thought was the appropriate one for my character, and got the bad ending. And now, if I want to try the *other* conversation option, I have to do that boss fight again, because the developers didn't think that having an autosave right after that boss fight and before making the momentous final choice was necessary.

Oh, and of course the forced conversation option also made it impossible for me to rez Lohse, who died just before the fight ended...

[Chen]

I'm pretty sure you can save during fights. Quicksave right before you win.

[Rynjin]

Also you can save during conversations. And any other time, really.

[Anteros]

I'm pretty sure you can save during fights. Quicksave right before you win.

Yup. I normally avoid saving during fights in tactical games because it's basically cheating. This game is buggy enough and frustrating enough with some of their designs that it's practically necessary though. I only use the saves if I get screwed by a bug or something like Factotum's post happens though.

[factotum]

I'm pretty sure you can save during fights. Quicksave right before you win.

The problem is, it wasn't my turn when I won. Several of my characters had "lose your next turn" status effects and the one character you have to beat to win the fight died from DoTs after I'd been unable to do anything for 30 seconds or so. Admittedly, it didn't occur to me to switch to another character during the conversation and see if they could rez Lohse and/or save the game--that sometimes works, right?

I still think they should have had the fight end, and then require you to initiate conversation yourself to proceed to the next step, not force you into a conversation whether you want it or not.

[Chen]

I still think they should have had the fight end, and then require you to initiate conversation yourself to proceed to the next step, not force you into a conversation whether you want it or not.

Oh I'm in complete agreement here. It's especially annoying when they talk to your non-persuasive character instead of your main one and its a non-repeatable conversation. I just posted that as a potential workaround for the moment.

There's mod that makes all the civil abilities into auras which is fantastic. Can't link it here since I'm at work but check out the Nexus or Steam workshop for it. It helps a ton in terms of QoL.

[Anteros]

Oh I'm in complete agreement here. It's especially annoying when they talk to your non-persuasive character instead of your main one and its a non-repeatable conversation. I just posted that as a potential workaround for the moment.

There's mod that makes all the civil abilities into auras which is fantastic. Can't link it here since I'm at work but check out the Nexus or Steam workshop for it. It helps a ton in terms of QoL.

Sounds fantastic, but does it work with existing saves or do I have to restart?

[Chen]

Sounds fantastic, but does it work with existing saves or do I have to restart?

I think it adds items you can buy at various merchants to produce the effects. I think they're present in each chapter (assuming you didn't kill said merchant I guess).

[Anteros]

So, the game has slowly gotten worse and worse as I've progressed and is now completely unplayable. Very frustrating since I'm well within the recommended performance specs for the game. After some Googling of the issue, it appears to be a very common problem that only gets worse as the game progresses. Considering I'm only in act 2 and I'm experiencing 30 seconds of freezing/lag for every 10 seconds of gameplay I'm feeling a little ripped off.

[factotum]

Odd, I never had any regular freezing or lag spikes? I would often get a thing where the game would freeze for upwards of 30 seconds after quicksaving, but it would always come back and be fine again until the next quicksave. And my machine is *garbage* by today's standards--it's an Athlon 860K quad-core CPU, GeForce 750Ti graphics and 8Gb of RAM, I'm pretty sure even an XBox Scorpio or Playstation Pro could out-perform it.

[Anteros]

I guess it's an issue with certain hardware configurations. They're "aware" of it and supposedly going to release a performance patch to fix the issue at some point in the future. I'm not exactly holding my breath, but I guess it's better than nothing.

Pretty ridiculous that I can run games like Inquisition or Witcher on decent settings with no hiccups, but a game that hardly looks much better than Baldur's Gate is unplayable on even the lowest settings.

[Anteros]

Well, after hours of troubleshooting I finally got it to work. All it took was putting every single setting to the lowest possible option, manually disabling texture streaming in the config file....and lowering the resolution to 500X700. At this point the game literally looks worse than the original Baldur's Gate and it still has 10 minute load screens with lag any time an ability is used. Also, when you lower the resolution the sound crackles constantly for some reason.

Their tech support basically just says "we're aware of the problem and planning a performance patch in the future". I'm actually impressed with their professionalism and response time, but without any more information than "hey your game might be playable one day if we get around to it" I'm honestly pretty upset. Doesn't help that I put in 80 hours at the hospital this week and spent the entire time looking forward to today when I could relax and play.

Oh well, I'm done with my pointless venting for now. I will say that if anyone reading this is considering buying the game I wouldn't risk it unless your system is well above the stated minimum system requirements.

[factotum]

Oh well, I'm done with my pointless venting for now. I will say that if anyone reading this is considering buying the game I wouldn't risk it unless your system is well above the stated minimum system requirements.

Again, though, I have a really, really poor PC and it works fine for me? It must be specific combinations of hardware that do it, not having a low spec machine. (Unless your machine spec is even lower than mine, and I seriously doubt that!).

[Anteros]

Again, though, I have a really, really poor PC and it works fine for me? It must be specific combinations of hardware that do it, not having a low spec machine. (Unless your machine spec is even lower than mine, and I seriously doubt that!).

No you don't. At least not within the context of the advertised requirements for this game. Your system is something like double the advertised requirements.

OS: Windows 7 64-bit.
CPU: Intel Core i5-650 3.2 GHz or AMD APU A10-6700T 2.5 GHz.
RAM: 4GB System Memory.
GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 550 Ti or AMD Radeon HD 6770.
DX: DirectX 11.
HDD: 25 GB Free Hard Drive Space.

Your rig outperforms mine by a significant margin. Now, I understand that it's time to upgrade my computer...but when I spend money on a product that is advertised to work with my system specs, I expect it to actually work. I don't think that's unreasonable. This is such a common issue that they actually have a sticky dealing with it on their official forums. They are obviously aware that the game's requirements are higher than they advertise...so why haven't they either fixed it, or changed the listed requirements? There's really no excuse.

[factotum]

Oh, OK, didn't realise your PC was that bad, sorry. While it doesn't excuse the practice of lowballing specs, I've been so used to interpreting the "recommended" specs as the minimum specs for years now that I barely pay attention to the "minimum" specs, and my PC doesn't actually quite meet the recommended ones for this game (I'm short on the graphics card and the CPU isn't quite where it should be either).

In other news, I am doing something with this game that I pretty much never do--that is, going in to a second playthrough almost immediately after finishing the first. There were skills I never really looked at first time through, and I never got to see Beast or Sebille's storylines--plus there was the whole "picked the wrong answer" at the end. This time I have a custom main character who's concentrating on being a summoner, Beast as a fighter (Warfare/Necromancy), Sebille as a Rogue with some Polymorph skills and Lohse again as the healer and teleporter. Not sure how well things will go at the higher levels without that handy Geomancy for repairing physical armour, but the buffed Incarnate both deals and takes a *lot* of damage even at level 7, where I am now. Dimensional Bolt, not so much--may need to dip into another magic school once Summoning hits level 10 and I get my Incarnate Champion.

[Seerow]

So I am still at the beginning of this game, roughly 4 hours deep. Looking for some general advice that can be provided with minimal story spoilers.

Specifically, build/system advice, and anything I need to make sure I do to avoid screwing myself later.

For example I poked around earlier in the thread and saw a note that you need to have some Wit to be able to get certain things. How much Wit should I invest in? Do I need it on my main character, or can it be on any character?

Besides that, what sort of stat skill spread should I be investing in? Is it better to hyper specialize or mix points around? Are there certain thresholds I need to hit early then start branching out? Are there skills that if I don't find/buy by a certain point in the game I will never get them? Will I ever reach a point in the game where buying each skill I come across is trivial?

I found out for the section I am in now I can only recruit 4 characters, even though there are more recruitable characters than that in the area. Will I get all of the characters later, or am I effectively picking my final party during this section of the game?

Most recently I got a quest reward that lets me take my collar off. I did a quick save on a separate file then did it, and am now in a position where I either kill all Magisters on site or get thrown in the dungeon. Have I messed myself up in a major way doing this, or is this inevitable? I also note that despite taking off the collar, I still have no idea what "Source" is (I actually spent the first several combats thinking all special abilities were Source, and used nothing but basic attacks assuming they were unavailable), so taking it off seems to have caused nothing but trouble. Mind, I don't mind just killing all of the Magisters... but in doing so am I cutting off side quests and other things I could be doing, or is this just the inevitable outcome of the Island? I am okay with spoilers on this if needed

Thank you for any help you are able to offer!

[huttj509]

So I am still at the beginning of this game, roughly 4 hours deep. Looking for some general advice that can be provided with minimal story spoilers.

Specifically, build/system advice, and anything I need to make sure I do to avoid screwing myself later.

For example I poked around earlier in the thread and saw a note that you need to have some Wit to be able to get certain things. How much Wit should I invest in? Do I need it on my main character, or can it be on any character?

Besides that, what sort of stat skill spread should I be investing in? Is it better to hyper specialize or mix points around? Are there certain thresholds I need to hit early then start branching out? Are there skills that if I don't find/buy by a certain point in the game I will never get them? Will I ever reach a point in the game where buying each skill I come across is trivial?

I found out for the section I am in now I can only recruit 4 characters, even though there are more recruitable characters than that in the area. Will I get all of the characters later, or am I effectively picking my final party during this section of the game?

Most recently I got a quest reward that lets me take my collar off. I did a quick save on a separate file then did it, and am now in a position where I either kill all Magisters on site or get thrown in the dungeon. Have I messed myself up in a major way doing this, or is this inevitable? I also note that despite taking off the collar, I still have no idea what "Source" is (I actually spent the first several combats thinking all special abilities were Source, and used nothing but basic attacks assuming they were unavailable), so taking it off seems to have caused nothing but trouble. Mind, I don't mind just killing all of the Magisters... but in doing so am I cutting off side quests and other things I could be doing, or is this just the inevitable outcome of the Island? I am okay with spoilers on this if needed

Thank you for any help you are able to offer!

First off, Source is like "supermagic" stuff. To start with, each character only has 1 ability that uses it. That's what's locked by the collar. Source that a character has absorbed is indicated by little ovals below the portraits that light up blue when full (I don't think you can really absorb any until after you get past Fort Joy, but still on that island).

[factotum]

So I am still at the beginning of this game, roughly 4 hours deep. Looking for some general advice that can be provided with minimal story spoilers.

To go through your points in order:

Wit is mainly required as a means of spotting hidden items, but it's by no means vital--I didn't invest a single point in it until Act 3 or thereabouts in my first playthrough, and I only started doing it then because of the increased Initiative (not critical chance, as I said before I edited this!) it also provides. Anything that's hidden in Fort Joy is spottable with the base wit 10, AFAIK.

Skills--I would generally go for at most two main skill schools for each character, and if you can arrange it that those skills both use the same base stat, so much the better! You should concentrate on Constitution and the base stat(s) for your skills--Cons is ridiculously powerful, at higher levels every point in it can give you *hundreds* of life. Also note some schools are complementary--for instance, Geomancer and Pyromancer works well together, because Geomancer can lay oil fields down which the Pyromancer then sets on fire. As for the individual spells or skills you can use within each school, you can learn as many of them as you like but you can only *memorise* a limited number--how many depends on your level and your Memory stat. See the Skills panel (K key by default) for more info.

You can only ever have four characters, yes. Your last chance to change your party up is on the ship after leaving Fort Joy, but note that *all* the characters have personal story bits they need to do on Fort Joy, and knowing what those are is kind of hard without reading spoilers, so you're best off picking your favourite ones and keeping them for the whole game--you have the best chance of doing their personal story missions that way.

There is *one* quest I can think of that requires the Magisters to be alive:


Magister Yarrow on the fort walls wants you to find the sourcerer Migo. However, I don't know if she turns hostile like the other Magisters do when you've got no collar.


Also note that the Magisters turning hostile is guaranteed in the long run, because that will happen if you go back into the Fort after once escaping it even if you still have your collar, and there may well be reasons you'll be doing that (e.g. finishing off quests).

[Cozzer]

Taking away the collar should probably be the very last thing you do in the camp, before going on with the game. If you completed the arena, you're probably strong enough to survive, but it's more fun to do the other sidequests first.

About attributes... I usually choose one primary, one secondary and one tertiary for each characters, depending on his build. Memory is very useful for mages, or characters who specialize in two/three schools. You should have one high-Wits character (probably your rogue), but you don't really need more than that. Also, remember that defensive magic (healing, armor restoring, and so on) and Summoning are not dependant on Intelligence. If you build a purely support caster, forget Int and go with Con or Finesse.

[Anteros]

So I am still at the beginning of this game, roughly 4 hours deep. Looking for some general advice that can be provided with minimal story spoilers.

Specifically, build/system advice, and anything I need to make sure I do to avoid screwing myself later.

For example I poked around earlier in the thread and saw a note that you need to have some Wit to be able to get certain things. How much Wit should I invest in? Do I need it on my main character, or can it be on any character?

Besides that, what sort of stat skill spread should I be investing in? Is it better to hyper specialize or mix points around? Are there certain thresholds I need to hit early then start branching out? Are there skills that if I don't find/buy by a certain point in the game I will never get them? Will I ever reach a point in the game where buying each skill I come across is trivial?

I found out for the section I am in now I can only recruit 4 characters, even though there are more recruitable characters than that in the area. Will I get all of the characters later, or am I effectively picking my final party during this section of the game?

Most recently I got a quest reward that lets me take my collar off. I did a quick save on a separate file then did it, and am now in a position where I either kill all Magisters on site or get thrown in the dungeon. Have I messed myself up in a major way doing this, or is this inevitable? I also note that despite taking off the collar, I still have no idea what "Source" is (I actually spent the first several combats thinking all special abilities were Source, and used nothing but basic attacks assuming they were unavailable), so taking it off seems to have caused nothing but trouble. Mind, I don't mind just killing all of the Magisters... but in doing so am I cutting off side quests and other things I could be doing, or is this just the inevitable outcome of the Island? I am okay with spoilers on this if needed

Thank you for any help you are able to offer!

Wits is the worst stat in the game by a large margin. Ostensibly it raises your initiative in combat...but the game forces you to take turns with the enemy no matter how heavily your initiative outweighs theirs. As a damage stat it is outperformed by every other primary damage stat in the game. Would you rather have a chance to crit for double damage, or would you rather always do double damage with a chance to crit for even more damage? It's a no-brainer. The only real use for wits is finding hidden treasures. It's not true that you can spot anything in Fort Joy with 10 wits though. It's like 16 or something if you want to find every single thing. I pumped wits on my first character before I realized how bad it was. Don't worry about your build though...you can respec when you leave the island.

I can only think of one side quest in Fort Joy that requires the magisters to be alive, and you get the rewards for it if you kill them, so it's not the biggest deal in the world. You could always do it with a character who still has their collar before you kill them if you want to maximize your exp. I ended up killing them all simply because it was annoying to constantly be thrown in the dungeon.

[factotum]

Wits is the worst stat in the game by a large margin. Ostensibly it raises your initiative in combat...but the game forces you to take turns with the enemy no matter how heavily your initiative outweighs theirs.

Initiative just alters where you go in the turn sequence, not how many turns you get, and going first can still be useful. Not as useful as some other things, admittedly, but useful enough to pay attention to.

[mangosta71]

Ifan's story includes talking to one of the magisters by the gate at one point. I missed out on that conversation because I got my collar removed before I discovered that.

[Chen]

Initiative just alters where you go in the turn sequence, not how many turns you get, and going first can still be useful. Not as useful as some other things, admittedly, but useful enough to pay attention to.

Yeah but you still alternate turns with the enemy until there aren't enough left (or vice versa).

If I have two chars, 100 init on one and 99 on another, fighting enemies who all have 20 init the order will be:

100 init char - 20 init enemy - 99 init char - all remaining enemies.

You want enough wits to find things and ensure you get the first action in combat. Max one characters needs high init and thus wits.

[factotum]

Ifan's story includes talking to one of the magisters by the gate at one point. I missed out on that conversation because I got my collar removed before I discovered that.

Isn't there a letter in Ifan's inventory right at the beginning of the game telling you that you have to speak to that guy?

[Keltest]

Isn't there a letter in Ifan's inventory right at the beginning of the game telling you that you have to speak to that guy?

yeah, and I think he drops a note for Ifan if you kill him, too.

[Anteros]

Oh yeah. I forgot about that one. That's also the area with the guy who shoots your cat, so be careful of the cat if you're doing that quest.

[factotum]

OK, word of advice to the developers of this game: having a questline where you lose every scrap of equipment off one of your characters, without any real way to get it back, and no way in advance to know this is what will happen, is cobblers. Do not do this. I eventually had to roll back to my last save about half an hour earlier.


I'm talking about the quest Love Has a Price, where you shack up with a lizard prostitute in Driftwood only to find it was all a trap and they're stealing all your gear. The problem is, your character is naked at this point, your other characters are not in the room for hopefully obvious reasons, so you don't have a lot of choice as to what to do. I tried to fight, but got killed in short order--my other characters then came in, killed the two bad guys who hadn't run off and rezzed me, but I was still just as naked. You can find your gear on a table in Lohar's room, but he won't let you take it if you ask him about it, and if you steal it you end up in another fight--which is a bit of a problem if you haven't done all Lohar's quests.

[Chen]

Hmm I didn't have that issue
I used the teleporter pyramids and my team arrived in the room. After killing the thugs my gear was in some container in there (hence the team arriving when using the pyramids).

[factotum]

Oh, it's easy to get round it if you know it's going to happen and set things up accordingly, which is exactly what I did second time through:


I made sure the room key was in the inventory of a secondary party member, switched to him and brought them all inside as soon as the fight started.


Problem is, if you DON'T know it's going to happen and aren't lucky enough to have equipment set up just so, you're hosed. (At the moment my teleporter pyramids are in the hands of Lohse (who has the teleport skill) and Beast (since he's pretty tanky and can easily survive getting teleported), so she can teleport him somewhere and then teleport the rest of the party to him).

[Chen]

My point was more that my gear was in the room and I was able to get it back without much issue. I'm not sure what makes it so you "lose" your gear the way you described.

[factotum]

My point was more that my gear was in the room and I was able to get it back without much issue. I'm not sure what makes it so you "lose" your gear the way you described.

You were able to retrieve it in the middle of a fight while wearing no armour and carrying no weapons? Did it actually let you equip it once you had it?

[Chen]

You were able to retrieve it in the middle of a fight while wearing no armour and carrying no weapons? Did it actually let you equip it once you had it?

It cost AP to pick up and to equip. If I recall I only bothered equipping my weapon but even then it didn't matter since I had the rest of my party there anyways. I'm not sure you can actually equip armor while in combat. You definitely can equip weapons though.

[Cozzer]

The best way to deal with that situation, IMHO, is by using the pyramids (you should already have two by then, one of them in the bag of the naked character and the other in the hands of someone else). Once the rest of the party gets there, you just win the fight (which is pretty easy, especially if your unequipped character is a mage) and take back your things.

[factotum]

Which goes back to what I already said--that's a fine solution, *if you know what's going to happen*. Oh, and it occurs to me that I didn't know where my equipment was the first time through this either--I only found that out by looking it up on the wiki after failing the first time. It just seems to be an "unless you're lucky you're reverting to a previous save" situation.

[huttj509]

The best way to deal with that situation, IMHO, is by using the pyramids (you should already have two by then, one of them in the bag of the naked character and the other in the hands of someone else). Once the rest of the party gets there, you just win the fight (which is pretty easy, especially if your unequipped character is a mage) and take back your things.

Well, yes, but if you don't know what's coming, and the other pyramid happens to not be in that character's bag, and you took the key into the room...

Yes, if you know the fight's coming, and prepare for it, it doesn't come out of nowhere and screw you.

[Anteros]

The game just kinda loves throwing you into situations where you're punished for not re-loading with future knowledge of the events in general. It's really not that different from having to re-load because you accidentally wandered into a high level fight with no warning and got destroyed...or accidentally made an important NPC hostile with some innocuous line of dialogue.

That's the problem with making a game "old school" or whatever. A lot of these types of design decisions were phased out of games for good reason. Sure, it's technically more difficult, but it's not the satisfying kind of difficulty.

[Chen]

I just tried this again and you can actually just pay the initial thugs too to get your stuff back. I also tried fighting naked with a lone wolf but I still died. However when I went to Lohar I just picked my stuff back up, it wasn't red. I had already done the quest to let the dwarves out of the basement (though not the whole Mordus part) so maybe that did it? That quest has zero combat in it so you could do it naked and get your gear back that way too.

[Seerow]

Thanks everyone for the early game tips. I'll be playing some more this weekend, and it will definitely help a lot.

One thing that if it did get answered, I may have missed: Are there missable skills in the game? Or will I eventually be able to find all skills at trainers/vendors and be able to reliably come back and get them?


The game just kinda loves throwing you into situations where you're punished for not re-loading with future knowledge of the events in general. It's really not that different from having to re-load because you accidentally wandered into a high level fight with no warning and got destroyed...or accidentally made an important NPC hostile with some innocuous line of dialogue.

That's the problem with making a game "old school" or whatever. A lot of these types of design decisions were phased out of games for good reason. Sure, it's technically more difficult, but it's not the satisfying kind of difficulty.

Hrm... I am curious, how does everyone feel this style of difficulty differs from Dark Souls?

After all, in Dark Souls you wander into fights and situations you aren't prepared for, and die. Frequently. It's the hallmark of the game. You then get sent back to the start of the area, and get to attempt it again. Most people seem to love it explicitly because of this learning curve, as you die, start over, get better, push further, and eventually master the zone.

It seems to me like Divinity's difficulty curve is emulating something similar, except you can save anywhere rather than having preset bonfires.

[Keltest]

Thanks everyone for the early game tips. I'll be playing some more this weekend, and it will definitely help a lot.

One thing that if it did get answered, I may have missed: Are there missable skills in the game? Or will I eventually be able to find all skills at trainers/vendors and be able to reliably come back and get them?

I believe that annoying Curse spell that everyone and their cat can hurl at you can only be obtained in a specific manner in one area of the game, but other than that I'm not aware of any skills that can be missed. The plot skills are the only other ones I know of that you *have* to quest for, and the plot wont advance without getting those, so you cant actually miss them.

[Chen]

The game just kinda loves throwing you into situations where you're punished for not re-loading with future knowledge of the events in general. It's really not that different from having to re-load because you accidentally wandered into a high level fight with no warning and got destroyed...or accidentally made an important NPC hostile with some innocuous line of dialogue.

That's the problem with making a game "old school" or whatever. A lot of these types of design decisions were phased out of games for good reason. Sure, it's technically more difficult, but it's not the satisfying kind of difficulty.

Having areas that outlevel you is a huge dividing issue. Some people love level scaling and others feel it's awful. Personally I like a static world with various difficulties based on area. I like feeling that I can just plow through some content if I outlevel it, whereas I can get crushed (or have a very challenging fight) if I go somewhere ahead of where I'm supposed to. Like running down to the Enclave area in Fallout 2 and getting some Power armor to crush the early game with, if you manage to sneak your way through and not get gibbed by the Enclave you're stealing from.

[factotum]

Oh, I like static levels in the opposition as well. Level scaling just renders the entire point of an RPG moot, which to my mind is to get kerbstomped by an enemy, grind up a couple of levels, then come back and get your revenge (maniacal laughing optional).

Speaking of which, you remember I said earlier that the second fight in the Driftwood arena seemed rather easy?


I think I was just so stupidly overlevelled for it--I was about level 13 at the time I did it--that I killed the champion before the Voidwoken had a chance to escape from its cage. I did the fight at level 10 this time, so was a bit surprised when that particular plot development happened!

[Anteros]

Having areas that outlevel you is a huge dividing issue. Some people love level scaling and others feel it's awful. Personally I like a static world with various difficulties based on area. I like feeling that I can just plow through some content if I outlevel it, whereas I can get crushed (or have a very challenging fight) if I go somewhere ahead of where I'm supposed to. Like running down to the Enclave area in Fallout 2 and getting some Power armor to crush the early game with, if you manage to sneak your way through and not get gibbed by the Enclave you're stealing from.

I like static levels in areas as well. If you wander off the beaten path it should be more dangerous and more rewarding. The problem with Divinity is that there is no beaten path. There's often no indication of where you should go next at all. You're left to wander in an open sandbox with no direction, and a single wrong turn will take you from the area you're supposed to be in to progress the plot to an area with mobs that are nearly twice your level. There's often no way to know which area is which other than saving and re-loading when you wander into a bad fight.

[huttj509]

I like static levels in areas as well. If you wander off the beaten path it should be more dangerous and more rewarding. The problem with Divinity is that there is no beaten path. There's often no indication of where you should go next at all. You're left to wander in an open sandbox with no direction, and a single wrong turn will take you from the area you're supposed to be in to progress the plot to an area with mobs that are nearly twice your level. There's often no way to know which area is which other than saving and re-loading when you wander into a bad fight.

Or "oh, a scarecrow." NOPE

[Keltest]

Or "oh, a scarecrow." NOPE

TBF, I think that has more to do with it being highly possible to be underleveled coming out of Fort Joy than it is the encounter being overleveled.

[Thomas Cardew]

TBF, I think that has more to do with it being highly possible to be underleveled coming out of Fort Joy than it is the encounter being overleveled.

Party comp has a lot to do with it as well. Very low physical armor and high magic armor means a decent archer and/or melee will have a much easier time than a group of mages.

[factotum]

TBF, I think that has more to do with it being highly possible to be underleveled coming out of Fort Joy than it is the encounter being overleveled.

Is it? The final battle before leaving Fort Joy is a pretty tough one, can you really get past it while being very underlevelled? (I suppose, thinking about it, it's possible by random chance that the Voidwoken and the magisters will fight each other and ignore you, but I've done that fight about six times (twice successfully) and that's never come close to happening for me).

[Chen]

Is it? The final battle before leaving Fort Joy is a pretty tough one, can you really get past it while being very underlevelled? (I suppose, thinking about it, it's possible by random chance that the Voidwoken and the magisters will fight each other and ignore you, but I've done that fight about six times (twice successfully) and that's never come close to happening for me).

The fight is super easy if you come in from the left (west) side by teleporting on to the edge from the outside of the castle area. Basically start the fight right next to the caster on the high ground. The worm can't attack you and you have a ton of time to pepper everyone with ranged attacks while they get to you. Don't stand too close to the edge or Alexander will nether swap you with him though. Casting an elemental totem near the edge gets him to swap with that though and then you're surrounding him so he just dies.

[Sholos]

The fight is super easy if you come in from the left (west) side by teleporting on to the edge from the outside of the castle area. Basically start the fight right next to the caster on the high ground. The worm can't attack you and you have a ton of time to pepper everyone with ranged attacks while they get to you. Don't stand too close to the edge or Alexander will nether swap you with him though. Casting an elemental totem near the edge gets him to swap with that though and then you're surrounding him so he just dies.

A lot of the fights become easier once you know all the Twists that are gonna be thrown at you, I've found. In fact, some of them nearly depend on you being prepared for them (by reloading a save, generally). Though with this particular fight, it doesn't really matter where you come in from. The worm can and will still attack you. My friend and I had to run the fight multple times before lucking out on RNG target selection along with actually keeping completely out of the fight for a bit.

[Chen]

A lot of the fights become easier once you know all the Twists that are gonna be thrown at you, I've found. In fact, some of them nearly depend on you being prepared for them (by reloading a save, generally). Though with this particular fight, it doesn't really matter where you come in from. The worm can and will still attack you. My friend and I had to run the fight multple times before lucking out on RNG target selection along with actually keeping completely out of the fight for a bit.

The worm never burrowed onto the highest platform for me in multiple attempts and different runs. I think it's too small for it's model, at least when there are some people standing on it.

[mangosta71]

Both times I've done that fight, the worm attacked whomever was closest to it. All I had to do was maneuver so that the Magisters were between me and it. It took enough damage chewing through the Magisters (especially with me strategically applying damage to keep things balanced) that I was able to mop up easily.

[Anteros]

The worm has always made a straight line for my people, even if it has to teleport past the entire Magister team to do so. The Magisters usually target the worm for me though.

I always approach fights from the high ground if possible, so my strategy has always been to come in from the right side where all the shriekers were and create a sea of poison and fire for the enemy to trudge through to get at me. The worm will teleport on top of me, but I can kill it by the time most of the magisters walk to me, and they're half dead when they get there anyway.

This fight is also really easy to cheese if you just send in one character with stealth, or have them run away when the worm shows up...but that's no fun. I generally feel like approaching fights with "future knowledge" is cheating, even though this game almost encourages you to do it.

[Sholos]

This fight is also really easy to cheese if you just send in one character with stealth, or have them run away when the worm shows up...but that's no fun. I generally feel like approaching fights with "future knowledge" is cheating, even though this game almost encourages you to do it.

Considering how easy it is to die without future knowledge, it's hard not to "cheat".

[Anteros]

Considering how easy it is to die without future knowledge, it's hard not to "cheat".

True enough. I guess I just mean I try not to abuse it too bad and break the game entirely.

[Avilan the Grey]

Just turned 45 yrs old, and got more birthday money than I thought. SO, instead of Mashinky (which I will get soon enough, it looks wonderful) I could afford to buy this.
I never played the first Original Sin game despite having it, because somehow I never got past the character creation screen. I will do it some time of course.
Now the question is how much I will actually play this since I am also stuck in the Sims quagmire ATM. Oh well.

I was thinking of going with either of the women. Proably the human that is resisting a spirit of some sort. Though the elf design looks amazing. It kind of looks like a mix between the High elves from TOS, the elves from Dragon Age and a healthy pinch of some Na'vi in there.*
The undead guy looks dumb, sounds annoying and is well... a skeleton. Skeletons are for grinding down for XP.
The male human is well... a male human warrior (default), meaning he is a dime a dozen.
The red lizard? ...Eh. Maybe.
The Dwarf is a dwarf and therefore should be boycotted by all players with common sense. Because he's a dwarf. Duh.

*Looking wise I never liked the Dragon Age elves, they were not anywhere, design wise. They were basically looking like big-handed teenagers (humans) with pointy ears in Origins, and like Vulcans in Inquisition.
I prefer my elves either like extremely beautiful humans (with pointy ears of course) or more alien. Like these.

Anyway, enough ranting.
Any tips for a noob? Please?

[Keltest]

Of the origins, I think Fane and Lohse are the most interesting ones. Fane is really good... for a second playthough, IMO, because a lot of the stuff he knows about are otherwise only revealed halfway through the game, and he wont share it with you if you aren't playing as him.

Even if you don't play as him though, I think he's worth bringing along. He's rather insightful and if you make him a rogue he doesn't need lockpicks.

The other origins can be interesting, but their stories can be experienced just as well by having them as companions, for the most part.

[Avilan the Grey]

Of the origins, I think Fane and Lohse are the most interesting ones. Fane is really good... for a second playthough, IMO, because a lot of the stuff he knows about are otherwise only revealed halfway through the game, and he wont share it with you if you aren't playing as him.

Even if you don't play as him though, I think he's worth bringing along. He's rather insightful and if you make him a rogue he doesn't need lockpicks.

The other origins can be interesting, but their stories can be experienced just as well by having them as companions, for the most part.

Lohse is the human mage woman right? Good.
Anything I need to look out for? I don't want spoilers, but are there anythings I definitely SHOULDN't do when building my character?

[Keltest]

Lohse is the human mage woman right? Good.
Anything I need to look out for? I don't want spoilers, but are there anythings I definitely SHOULDN't do when building my character?

Barring mods, you have 4 party slots. The standard D&D group of fighter, rogue, offense caster, support caster does very well. The class you pick doesn't actually do much to determine your class, its just a preset. Like Skyrim, you aren't bound by how you start.

Warfare is the fighter skill, and it usually does damage to and is blocked by physical armor. Scoundrel is the rogue skill, which does a mix of both kinds of damage with some debuffs thrown in; you can use huntsman if you prefer a bow to knives, but ultimately theyre both about hurting people with weapons. Hydrosophist is the primary healing and support school, restoring both health and magic armor, and dealing damage to the same. The offensive wizard slot has a couple different options, but Pyrokinetic offers the most raw damage to things without resistance to it.

Other than that... buff the crap out of your main damage stat. Memory when you need more ability slots, pick one character to put a few points into wits (but only one) so you can see hidden things, and con is a trap.

A few things to wrap up: Geomancy is a complimentary school to warfare and pyrokinetic, because it creates burnable surfaces and heals physical armor. Aerotheurge is likewise for hydrosophist because it can take advantage of all the water it leaves around. Necromancy sucks, don't put more than a point or two into it. Polymorph has a bunch of buffs, many of which are nice to have, but it doesn't have an obvious compliment like some of the other schools do. Summoning has a fair amount of flexibility, but needs a lot of effort to completely replace one of the primary schools at their job.

The defensive abilities are nice to have, but I struggle to put more than one or two points in them because that means fewer in my spellcasting skills. I never put anything in the weapon skills unless I'm super specializing in regular attack damage.

[Avilan the Grey]

Thank you!
Now let's see if I can scew that up :smallbiggrin:

[Avilan the Grey]

...only had time to look at stuff a bit this morning.
How much do I gain or lose playing / not playing an Origin character?

[factotum]

Summoning has a fair amount of flexibility, but needs a lot of effort to completely replace one of the primary schools at their job.


However, Summoning is extremely powerful in its own right--a fully-buffed Incarnate can easily out-damage your specialist warriors, even in the late game, and you can have them deal physical or magic damage depending on what surface you conjure them in.

On an unrelated note, got something I encountered on my second playthrough I missed first time around:


In the Academy of the Seven on the Nameless Isle the ghosts of the academy masters are still sitting in the room where they were killed. These guys will give you a buff if you speak to them that lowers one of your stats by 5 and increases another by 5. First question: why on earth do you need this when you can respec your attributes at the magic mirror on the Lady Vengeance? Secondly, it can cause real problems if you accept one of these "buffs", because I inadvertently lowered my main character's strength to 5. Respeccing your attributes *appears* to remove the boost, but it's still secretly there and invisible, so your character will find themselves randomly unable to move because of encumbrance even though this doesn't show up in their character description. So, overall, this is a buggier method of doing something you could have done anyway!

[Rynjin]

As an Origin character you gain a preset background and unique skill (which is usually on par with or worse than the default custom character one, unless you're Fane), and lose out on the blank slate of the custom gen people.

I personally have preferred playing as an origin character for the unique dialogue and voice acting. Gameplay-wise they're identical to a pure custom character.

[Cozzer]

I found Necromancy pretty useful for my undead wizard. It has a few spells that target Physical amor, useful if I need to quickly coup-de-grace an enemy that's been targeted by my warriors. The most useful thing, though, is its passive bonus (the character heals himself whenever he hurts someone's vitality), since it's pretty hard to heal undeads.

[Avilan the Grey]

I still haven't decided if I go Origin and in that case as what.
On one hand yes, I enjoy good stories.
On the other hand I generally hate playing pre-made characters. The only one I have really enjoyed was Shepard and that's because Hale is awesome.

As I understand it you don't really miss out on their origin stories if you play a custom character, it's just like if you were playing Baldurs Gate or PoE. You lead a bunch of freaks around and help them with their quests.

Another issue is build. I think I'll go as some sort of mage if I play Lohse but what exactly? I don't want to play support really.

Edit: Anyone knows who does her voice? She sound very very familiar.

[Cozzer]

I've just finished a Lohse playthrough, and support + Summoning is very viable and fun (also, having her primary skill be Summoning sort of fits her backstory, I think). I went finesse-based, with Huntsman, Summoning and Hydrosophist, but going int-based with Geomancer, Hydrosophist and Summoning would be very effective, I think.

I think you don't lose anything by being a pre-made character, anyway. You still get all of the standard dialogue options, plus a few specific one for your character that you can ignore if they don't fit the way you see him/her.

[factotum]

Another issue is build. I think I'll go as some sort of mage if I play Lohse but what exactly? I don't want to play support really.

Edit: Anyone knows who does her voice? She sound very very familiar.

All magic schools have offensive abilities, even the ones that are primarily aimed at support like Hydrosophist--in fact, in some cases those offensive abilities will do better work than a Geomancer or Pyrokinetic, because you can find guys who are highly resistant to fire or earth damage but weak to Water, for instance. Also note that you are personally controlling all the characters in your party whatever happens, so at least one of them is going to primarily be support and you'll be playing them, or else you'll not get very far!

According to IMDB her voice is supplied by Tamaryn Payne, but I doubt she's who you're thinking of because she mostly appears to have acted in British soap operas. Apparently she voiced a "Pit Fighter" in the Telltale Games "Game of Thrones", so maybe you've heard of her from that?

[Keltest]

I still haven't decided if I go Origin and in that case as what.
On one hand yes, I enjoy good stories.
On the other hand I generally hate playing pre-made characters. The only one I have really enjoyed was Shepard and that's because Hale is awesome.

As I understand it you don't really miss out on their origin stories if you play a custom character, it's just like if you were playing Baldurs Gate or PoE. You lead a bunch of freaks around and help them with their quests.

Another issue is build. I think I'll go as some sort of mage if I play Lohse but what exactly? I don't want to play support really.

Edit: Anyone knows who does her voice? She sound very very familiar.

That would be why I recommended Lohse and Fane if you wanted to play an origin. More than any of the others, their origins have a lot of details hidden that you can only access if youre playing as them. There are a few conversations you have throughout the game with your racial god, for example, and its different for them than it would be for other humans, even Ifan.

[Avilan the Grey]

Thanks for all the input.
Now, wizard or enchanter? I think I have narrowed it down to one of those.

[factotum]

Thanks for all the input.
Now, wizard or enchanter? I think I have narrowed it down to one of those.

Well, bear in mind that the class you pick only affects your starting skills and talents (both of which can be changed using the magic mirror later in the game), so it doesn't really matter much. The enchanter is Hydrosophist/Aerotheurge which means they have all the support skills like Teleportation and Restoration, while the wizard is Geomancer/Pyrokinetic so is more about blasting now, blasting later and blasting all the bits in between as well. As I said earlier, though, you can still do the blasting thing as an enchanter, so I guess it really comes down to: do you prefer blasting someone with lighting and then freezing the sparking remnants into ice cubes (enchanter), or covering them with sticky oil and then setting it on fire (wizard)?

[Keltest]

Well, bear in mind that the class you pick only affects your starting skills and talents (both of which can be changed using the magic mirror later in the game), so it doesn't really matter much. The enchanter is Hydrosophist/Aerotheurge which means they have all the support skills like Teleportation and Restoration, while the wizard is Geomancer/Pyrokinetic so is more about blasting now, blasting later and blasting all the bits in between as well. As I said earlier, though, you can still do the blasting thing as an enchanter, so I guess it really comes down to: do you prefer blasting someone with lighting and then freezing the sparking remnants into ice cubes (enchanter), or covering them with sticky oil and then setting it on fire (wizard)?

And heck, during character creation you can even switch out which skills you start with, so the name is largely meaningless. Pick which you like and run with it.

[Avilan the Grey]

I want the rain / ice / electricity combo but I would also like some summoning...

[factotum]

I want the rain / ice / electricity combo but I would also like some summoning...

I'm not sure that attempting to cram three skills into one character is worth it, to be honest. Skills max out at level 10 (ignoring bonuses from gear) and you'll not be much beyond level 20 when you finish the entire game, so there isn't really room to fully develop three. However, don't forget that you have recruitable party members (after the prologue, at any rate) and you can specify what skills you want them to have when you recruit them, so don't think you have to get all the good stuff onto your main character--choose a pair of skills that combo nicely for them and put the third skill onto one of your companions.

[Keltest]

I'm not sure that attempting to cram three skills into one character is worth it, to be honest. Skills max out at level 10 (ignoring bonuses from gear) and you'll not be much beyond level 20 when you finish the entire game, so there isn't really room to fully develop three. However, don't forget that you have recruitable party members (after the prologue, at any rate) and you can specify what skills you want them to have when you recruit them, so don't think you have to get all the good stuff onto your main character--choose a pair of skills that combo nicely for them and put the third skill onto one of your companions.

Its possible if you pick the Lone Wolf feat, but that restricts you to at most two party members (who presumably both have Lone Wolf), which becomes rather challenging since the bonus to armor types from the feat doesn't really compare to just having a second character not being CC'd or targeted.

[Avilan the Grey]

I'm not sure that attempting to cram three skills into one character is worth it, to be honest. Skills max out at level 10 (ignoring bonuses from gear) and you'll not be much beyond level 20 when you finish the entire game, so there isn't really room to fully develop three. However, don't forget that you have recruitable party members (after the prologue, at any rate) and you can specify what skills you want them to have when you recruit them, so don't think you have to get all the good stuff onto your main character--choose a pair of skills that combo nicely for them and put the third skill onto one of your companions.

See, this is a different philosophy than what I have when playing these kinds of games.
It doesn't matter if the game is party based; I always treat the "player character" as the main character and the others are there to support him or her and make sure he or she doesn't die. This means that the main character will have the best gear and coolest skills, because unless a piece of equipment is tailored to someone else, my character will wear it.*

Basically the main character is "me". The others not so much.

As for skills... don't you always start with three anyway? I guess a rain / hale / Wind combo is better by default, though, than a wind / hale / summoning combo.

*This is alsy why I dislike games like Icewind Dale, where you custom build all characters. I want a clear "me".

[factotum]

As for skills... don't you always start with three anyway? I guess a rain / hale / Wind combo is better by default, though, than a wind / hale / summoning combo.


You don't start with three skills in the way you're thinking--you generally start with two combat skills and one non-combat skill (the latter being stuff like Thievery and Loremaster). Combat skills and non-combat skills are entirely separate and have separate progression, so you can't put non-combat skill points into combat skills and vice versa.

As for the note about equipment, all equipment has a minimum requirement in Strength, Finesse, Intelligence or Constitution. These requirements aren't too onerous (I don't think they go above 14, when you start at 10) but you'd still need to waste points in a non-core stat for your character to be able to literally wear anything.

[Cozzer]

Personally, I gave three "main" skills to a couple characters and I had no problems. If you want a summoner/mage you should put most of the points into Summoning, since that's not influenced by Attributes, and then put a lot of attribute points into Int to balance your lowish magic skills. And then, of course, do everything you can to get yourself some items that give you relevant bonuses.

By the end of the game, for example, I had about 7 natural Summoning, 4 in the other two main skills (Hydrosophist and Huntsman), and 4 in my damage skill (Ranged). Thanks to items, my actual Summoning score was never below 10, which let me summon Master Incarnates, which are freaking powerhouses if properly buffed. If you are a mage, you can ignore damage skills and you'll have more points to play with.

(My Fane, for example, spread his skill points more or less evenly between Necro, Pyro, Aero and Geo. Maybe his spells were less powerful than they could have been, but he could always target a weakness, or at least avoid resistances. And he had a few useful buffs too. It depends on whether you like having a few really powerful attacks, or lots of versatility).

[Avilan the Grey]

Basically now I'm split between a Conjurer build or Enchanter build.

Edit I think I'll stick with Enchanter. I tend to be enamored by summoning classes in all RPGs and then grow bored quickly.

[Anteros]

Basically now I'm split between a Conjurer build or Enchanter build.

Edit I think I'll stick with Enchanter. I tend to be enamored by summoning classes in all RPGs and then grow bored quickly.

That's probably for the best, because summoning seems to break the game very quickly.

[Chen]

Its possible if you pick the Lone Wolf feat, but that restricts you to at most two party members (who presumably both have Lone Wolf), which becomes rather challenging since the bonus to armor types from the feat doesn't really compare to just having a second character not being CC'd or targeted.

Uh Lone Wolf is hilariously broken, power wise in this game. Even stat point and ability point is doubled (except polymorph and civil skills). You get ridiculously powerful very fast.

Also there's no need to max out the elemental schools. Yes they add more damage, but on my first run I used Fane as an all purpose mage and it worked fine. Focused on Int and Memory and gave him enough to learn all the elemental schools. I did focus more on fire in the end for extra damage but both Hydro and Aero are more about the CC than the damage so the ability points are not terribly important. If you're multi-schooling it may even be more efficient to just drop points into Polymorph for extra int once you've hit the threshold for the skills you want. Plus that gets you Apotheosis which lets you drop two 3 source skills over the next two turns (or more if you save AP or have adrenaline). Dropping Meteor shower and hail storm is going to destroy most encounters.

[Anteros]

I agree with what Chen said. Lone Wolf seems to give just enough bonus armor that the computer struggles to break it and CC you. Combine that with the fact that you basically have the same AP as an entire 4 man party, and all of your skills hit twice as hard and you end up with each lone wolf character being almost as powerful as an entire 4 man party by themselves.

[Avilan the Grey]

I'm not going Lone Wolf anyway since the whole point of party based RPGs to me is the (hopefully) well written party members.

I started as Lohse this morning. Not even done exploring the lower deck (blast you, capitalist society! Forcing me to go to work!) but I really like her.
I looked through all the options when picking her and remarkably every single choice except instrument was exactly what I would have picked for that archetype! In other words I left her completely vanilla (enchanter) because I really liked those options.

My only problem with the game so far is that I struggle a tiny tiny bit with controls: I keep trying to rotate the screen with my right mouse button instead of the wheel button. Also the dialogue screen is a bit clunky.

[Anteros]

My only problem with the game so far is that I struggle a tiny tiny bit with controls: I keep trying to rotate the screen with my right mouse button instead of the wheel button. Also the dialogue screen is a bit clunky.

It really is. You kinda get used to it after a while, but there's definitely a lot of room for improvement there. I think some people have found that using the keyboard works better for them, but I never liked it.

[factotum]

Yeah, I always use the arrow keys and DELETE/END to move the view around rather than using the mouse to do it--I just find it easier. Your mileage may vary, of course.

I just realised that I made a bit of an error on my second playthrough in making my custom main character human. I was thinking that I was already planning to have a dwarf (Beast) and an elf (Sebille), but it's too similar to the first playthrough where I was Ifan--I should have chosen lizard. (Not Undead, because it's a pain having to heal them with poison abilities).

[Avilan the Grey]

So... First combat experience:
First fight against the guards in the office on the ship... Beyond simple. Nobody touched me.
Second one against the vicious hatchlings on deck almost killed me. Mostly my fault, I should have started with freezing instead of stunning I think. In any event I still enjoy Lohse. I also still struggle with the fact that the camera rotates in the opposite direction from what I expect it to.

[Anteros]

Just be aware that you'll soon start running into enemies with armor that you need to strip before you can CC them. Make sure you're not neglecting damage entirely for CC or you'll have a bad time.

Also, wands >>> staves for casters. Especially early when dual wielding wands can give you more magic damage than most spells.

[Chen]

Just be aware that you'll soon start running into enemies with armor that you need to strip before you can CC them. Make sure you're not neglecting damage entirely for CC or you'll have a bad time.

Also, wands >>> staves for casters. Especially early when dual wielding wands can give you more magic damage than most spells.

Wand + shield seems to be even better due to the boost in survivability. Especially with a splash in warfare for that shield throwing ability. Lets you do significant physical damage if needed since it's based purely on the shield's armor (plus warfare bonus but no stat dependency).

[Anteros]

Wand + shield seems to be even better due to the boost in survivability. Especially with a splash in warfare for that shield throwing ability. Lets you do significant physical damage if needed since it's based purely on the shield's armor (plus warfare bonus but no stat dependency).

Later yes. I find that very early you need the extra damage to get through the loads of magic armor in time to CC them because you're severely lacking in options until you get some skills.

[Cozzer]

Since I'm now without a game I really want to play, I might give Original Sin 2 another go, to see the story of the other characters. I'd use a custom character this time (2-handed weapon warrior), with Lohse (my previous main) as a companion (mage-summoner this time, rather than archer-summoner), along with Beast (wand-and-shield support caster... or even weapon-and-shield support caster, using only the spells that don't depend on Int) and Sebille (pure archer). This way, I'd have a balanced party without using any of the archetypes I used in the first playthrough.

[Keltest]

Later yes. I find that very early you need the extra damage to get through the loads of magic armor in time to CC them because you're severely lacking in options until you get some skills.

If youre fighting someone with lots of magic armor, chances are they have low physical armor. There are a couple bosses that don't follow this rule, but only a couple. When that's the case, just have your rogue shank them to death and point your mage at someone with low or no magic armor.

[Anteros]

If youre fighting someone with lots of magic armor, chances are they have low physical armor. There are a couple bosses that don't follow this rule, but only a couple. When that's the case, just have your rogue shank them to death and point your mage at someone with low or no magic armor.

He's still on the boat. He probably wont have a full party for at least several fights. Besides, there's lots of times where there's literally nothing to do except strip armor or skip a turn while you wait for the other group members to kill something.

[Keltest]

He's still on the boat. He probably wont have a full party for at least several fights. Besides, there's lots of times where there's literally nothing to do except strip armor or skip a turn while you wait for the other group members to kill something.

The voidwoken on the boat don't have any kind of armor, magic or otherwise. And pyro and hydrosophist both have a few support skills you can drop on your physical hitters while youre waiting once you hit that point.

[Anteros]

The voidwoken on the boat don't have any kind of armor, magic or otherwise. And pyro and hydrosophist both have a few support skills you can drop on your physical hitters while youre waiting once you hit that point.

Yes...I know that. I specifically said he'd run into enemies soon with armor. Probably before he has a full party.

Yes, you can buff your allies if you have those spells on rounds where you wouldn't do anything. Duh. You can also strip armor so you can actually contribute on the next round.

Are you just trying to be contrary or something?

[Keltest]

Yes...I know that. I specifically said he'd run into enemies soon with armor. Probably before he has a full party.

Yes, you can buff your allies if you have those spells on rounds where you wouldn't do anything. Duh. You can also strip armor so you can actually contribute on the next round.

Are you just trying to be contrary or something?

There is exactly one combat encounter you can run into before reaching Fort Joy and all the available party members, and you can just walk past it if you don't want to fight yet. It is possible, if rather unlikely, that you could pick another fight in the fort itself before you get a full party, however you will have NPCs supporting you there.

I don't know what youre trying to prove here. You made a claim. It was wrong, or at best misinformative. Now I'm refuting your attempts to defend that claim.

[Anteros]

There is exactly one combat encounter you can run into before reaching Fort Joy and all the available party members, and you can just walk past it if you don't want to fight yet. It is possible, if rather unlikely, that you could pick another fight in the fort itself before you get a full party, however you will have NPCs supporting you there.

I don't know what youre trying to prove here. You made a claim. It was wrong, or at best misinformative. Now I'm refuting your attempts to defend that claim.

Not everyone knows where every single party member is. I know that I personally ran into several combat encounters before I had a full party, simply because I didn't know where the people I wanted to recruit were at. The other caster in particular can be quite difficult to find if you don't get lucky or use a guide.

I made a claim that I thought might be helpful to someone new to the game. What you're doing is nit-picking my claim to the point of all meaningless and creating straw men to argue against. Why? Because you have a different play-style and don't like my suggestion? Just to be argumentative? I legitimately don't understand what you're trying to accomplish. You're not even being helpful and providing alternate suggestions like Chen did...you're just nitpicking.

And besides, even if you're right and every single person to ever play the game recruits a full party before any fights...there's still a ton of turns where you'll just be skipping on your casters while you wait for your melee guys if you lack the damage to get through the magic armor, so my point is still valid. Double wands is a very viable build...especially in the early game when you lack a lot of spells.

[Keltest]

Not everyone knows where every single party member is. I know that I personally ran into several combat encounters before I had a full party, simply because I didn't know where the people I wanted to recruit were at. The other caster in particular can be quite difficult to find if you don't get lucky or use a guide.

I made a claim that I thought might be helpful to someone new to the game. What you're doing is nit-picking my claim to the point of all meaningless and creating straw men to argue against. Why? Because you have a different play-style and don't like my suggestion? Just to be argumentative? I legitimately don't understand what you're trying to accomplish. You're not even being helpful and providing alternate suggestions like Chen did...you're just nitpicking.

You can tell any companion to be any class and they will all perform equally well at it. There is exactly one combat encounter you can run into before you walk past at least some companions.

As for my point, its that youre wrong. Completely. Enemies in the early game, by and large, do not have armor of any sort. By the time you start running into enemies that have enough to need to be burned down, you should have a full party and can strategize more than just "I have a hammer, so everything is a nail".

Using your wizard to target high magic armor foes is actively playing against your strengths. Dont do it if you can do anything else productive with your turn.

[Avilan the Grey]

Anyway.

Thanks for your advice. I will probably end up failing a,lot of social encounters due to roleplaying. So extra unnecessary fights most likely.
That said I will try to stay away from front line fighting as much as possible.

[Anteros]

You can tell any companion to be any class and they will all perform equally well at it. There is exactly one combat encounter you can run into before you walk past at least some companions.

As for my point, its that youre wrong. Completely. Enemies in the early game, by and large, do not have armor of any sort. By the time you start running into enemies that have enough to need to be burned down, you should have a full party and can strategize more than just "I have a hammer, so everything is a nail".

Using your wizard to target high magic armor foes is actively playing against your strengths. Dont do it if you can do anything else productive with your turn.

A lot of people like to keep the characters as their default class for thematic reasons. You don't seem to understand that not everyone plays the same as you do, and you're getting offended about it. You keep making these sweeping statements as if your opinion or tactics are the only viable option and that's just objectively not true. There are a lot of ways to get through this game. Your tactics are not the only ones that are viable. Nor are your tactics always the best.

Also, (almost?) every single enemy inside Fort Joy has armor, so you're just objectively wrong about that as well.

I don't know what difficulty Avilan is playing on, but there are enemies with literally 30-60 magic armor (difficulty depending) you can run into as soon as you enter the town.

[Keltest]

A lot of people like to keep the characters as their default class for thematic reasons. You don't seem to understand that not everyone plays the same as you do, and you're getting offended about it. You keep making these sweeping statements as if your opinion or tactics are the only viable option and that's just objectively not true. There are a lot of ways to get through this game. Your tactics are not the only ones that are viable. Nor are your tactics always the best.

Also, (almost?) every single enemy inside Fort Joy has armor, so you're just objectively wrong about that as well.

I don't know what difficulty Avilan is playing on, but there are enemies with literally 30-60 magic armor (difficulty depending) you can run into as soon as you enter the town.

I mean, if you* choose to run around with four wizards or four warriors or whatever, that's your prerogative, but if youre doing that then I think youre a ways beyond us giving you any meaningful tactical advice. The fact of the matter is, dual wielding wands can be somewhat helpful for setting up surfaces and combos (water into air for stun, for example) but outside of the extreme early game where you have nothing else, wands and staves in general for mages are fairly meaningless, and you certainly don't want to go around trying to take on a high magic armor enemy with them if you have any choice.

*you being a hypothetical person doing some sub-optimal party combination, not any specific individual in this thread

[Anteros]

Ok...but we are talking about someone in the extreme early game. I already said a shield is better later.

Also, 4 warriors or 4 wizards is way more tactically viable than a mix. It breaks the game. One of many ways. Not as fun though.

Anyway, can we just drop this and move on?

[Avilan the Grey]

Ok...but we are talking about someone in the extreme early game. I already said a shield is better later.

Also, 4 warriors or 4 wizards is way more tactically viable than a mix. It breaks the game. One of many ways. Not as fun though.

Anyway, can we just drop this and move on?

Four of one thing breaks basically any fantasy RPG, for some reason. Probably because of the lack of an adaptive Dungeon Master.
ESPECIALLY four wizards. But I have seen games where four (or 6) BARDS goes through everything like butter. So much for the "Fighter / Cleric / Wizard / Rogue is a must have".

[Chen]

Ok...but we are talking about someone in the extreme early game. I already said a shield is better later.

Also, 4 warriors or 4 wizards is way more tactically viable than a mix. It breaks the game. One of many ways. Not as fun though.

Anyway, can we just drop this and move on?

Taking the shield earlier exactly removes the issue of having to wait and do nothing if the foe has extra magic armor. Everyone should have SOME capability of doing a bit of other damage, just to finish off foes. Getting something like Medusa head or Chloroform on your melee characters is also very useful, just like getting shield throw for your mages is. Both on normal difficulty and tactician I've very little need for basic wand/staff attacks except to actually trigger some sort of elemental effect (shocking water or igniting poison for example)

[Avilan the Grey]

The fight you all mention above, the one where tutorial teaches you about line of sight, was as simple as the first. I guess it has more to do with distance, the voidlings on the upper deck starts off closer to you.
Anyway this was a simple exercise in zapping and freezing until dead. Handy with ppl standing in conductive liquid...
I really like Lohse so far.

Next stop: Fane.

[factotum]

Next stop: Fane.

He can be quite hard to find when you get to Fort Joy. Remember to stock up on poison bottles, since that's one of the few ways you can heal him!

[Chen]

He can be quite hard to find when you get to Fort Joy. Remember to stock up on poison bottles, since that's one of the few ways you can heal him!

Just have your highest Str char carry around a poison barrel. Poison potions just limited by empty potion bottles which are plentiful. Remember to combine two of the smaller ones into bigger ones and keep doing that until you have ones that heal you to full for your current level. You can also use some sort of talon thing (forget the name exactly) to make your poison potions (its much lighter) but you can't poison your bladed weapons with that like you can with the barrel. It also helps if your undead chars have Geomancy since they can use that to give themselves armor and heal themselves with poison dart or contamination.

[Keltest]

Just have your highest Str char carry around a poison barrel. Poison potions just limited by empty potion bottles which are plentiful. Remember to combine two of the smaller ones into bigger ones and keep doing that until you have ones that heal you to full for your current level. You can also use some sort of talon thing (forget the name exactly) to make your poison potions (its much lighter) but you can't poison your bladed weapons with that like you can with the barrel. It also helps if your undead chars have Geomancy since they can use that to give themselves armor and heal themselves with poison dart or contamination.

Geomancy works well with Pyro and warfare anyway. Unless you make him a rogue (undead don't need to carry lockpicks!) its a good skill tree to have on him.

[Chen]

Geomancy works well with Pyro and warfare anyway. Unless you make him a rogue (undead don't need to carry lockpicks!) its a good skill tree to have on him.

Lock picking doesn't involve anything but the Thievery skill, so you can give it to your mage anyways.

[factotum]

It also helps if your undead chars have Geomancy since they can use that to give themselves armor and heal themselves with poison dart or contamination.

Necromancy also offers some healing options that work on undead characters (e.g. Blood Sucker), as I found when I tried to use that to damage an undead opponent!

[Anteros]

So I've been toying around in the first Divinity Original Sin a bit and one thing that strikes me is how much better tactician mode is. They actually added enemies, gave them status immunities, special abilities, etc. There's a bit of stat bloat, but it's mostly entirely different fights from the classic version. Unlike in 2 where the fights are all the exact same except with stat bloat.

Obviously 2 is superior in most other ways, but I really wish it had this kind of tactician mode added. In the first game you actually have to change the way you approach some fights. In 2 you just hit them for a few extra rounds once you have them CCed.

[Chen]

So I've been toying around in the first Divinity Original Sin a bit and one thing that strikes me is how much better tactician mode is. They actually added enemies, gave them status immunities, special abilities, etc. There's a bit of stat bloat, but it's mostly entirely different fights from the classic version. Unlike in 2 where the fights are all the exact same except with stat bloat.

Obviously 2 is superior in most other ways, but I really wish it had this kind of tactician mode added. In the first game you actually have to change the way you approach some fights. In 2 you just hit them for a few extra rounds once you have them CCed.

I know for sure there are some Auras/Immunities that are added to enemies on Tactician in DOS2. The fight to free Meist Siva had some guys with evasive aura on Tactician that I didnt have on the difficulty below that. The ambush against the Red Prince near Paradise Downs also had a bunch of vacuum auras and stuff that weren't present on lower difficulties. I'll grant I didn't notice anything added in Act 1 fights, except the Witch in the cave which had maybe 1 more undead guy in it.

[Anteros]

I know for sure there are some Auras/Immunities that are added to enemies on Tactician in DOS2. The fight to free Meist Siva had some guys with evasive aura on Tactician that I didnt have on the difficulty below that. The ambush against the Red Prince near Paradise Downs also had a bunch of vacuum auras and stuff that weren't present on lower difficulties. I'll grant I didn't notice anything added in Act 1 fights, except the Witch in the cave which had maybe 1 more undead guy in it.

There's a few. There's also a lot of minor abilities added in that don't really do much. It's just not comparable to the first game though where almost every fight was drastically different.

[Avilan the Grey]

I love the Kid with the mirror and his reactin to Lohse btw...

Edit: apparently I killed the voidlings on the beach
...Before one of them spoke to me. Huh.

[Keltest]

I love the Kid with the mirror and his reactin to Lohse btw...

Edit: apparently I killed the voidlings on the beach
...Before one of them spoke to me. Huh.

As far as I know, they don't say anything interesting other than just menacing you by name a little.

Unless youre Fane, in which case they call you Traitor.

[factotum]

Yeah, I don't remember them saying anything interesting either. Sometimes Voidwoken will say things to you whose meaning only becomes obvious once you know the whole story, as I'm noticing on my second playthrough, though.

[Avilan the Grey]

I now have what I suspect will be my main party throughout the game:


Me, Lohse, as Enchanter / Summoner (yes I took Summoner as a skill when leveling up. Sue me. I googled around and it seems the main consensus is that three "rather high" skills are better than two maximized.
Red Prince as default warrior
Fane as default Wizard (though I switched out one of his dual poison wands for a crafted fire one. Better have options.
Sebille as default Rogue


Now to find Sebille some nicer pants :smallbiggrin:. Also, I think I know where to get "RP" a much better armor. Will be a difficult task, though.

[factotum]

Me, Lohse, as Enchanter / Summoner (yes I took Summoner as a skill when leveling up. Sue me. I googled around and it seems the main consensus is that three "rather high" skills are better than two maximized.


If you're going to do that, bear in mind that the power of your summons depends entirely on your summoning skill and your level, whereas other magic skills also get a boost from Intelligence, so you're best off having the summoning skill be the highest one and have the other two be lower level (just relying on INT to keep the damage up). Also, unlike other skills, your Incarnate gets a massive boost when your summoning skill hits 10, so getting there as soon as possible is a good move--try to find items with +summoning skill on them.

[Avilan the Grey]

If you're going to do that, bear in mind that the power of your summons depends entirely on your summoning skill and your level, whereas other magic skills also get a boost from Intelligence, so you're best off having the summoning skill be the highest one and have the other two be lower level (just relying on INT to keep the damage up). Also, unlike other skills, your Incarnate gets a massive boost when your summoning skill hits 10, so getting there as soon as possible is a good move--try to find items with +summoning skill on them.

Thanks. I studied that already, but thanks all the same :smallsmile:.
Yeah, Summon will probably be my strongest skill.

[Avilan the Grey]

Hey how should I spend my ability points? Mainly the INT vs MEM ratio?

[Keltest]

Hey how should I spend my ability points? Mainly the INT vs MEM ratio?

I usually just drop a couple more points in mem whenever I run out of ability slots and need more. Personally, I find I tend to accumulate far more skills than I actually end up being able to use in a given combat, whether because of resistances or just because they die so fast, so don't be afraid to just leave a bunch unmemorized and switch them out if a given combat gives you trouble.

[Anteros]

Hey how should I spend my ability points? Mainly the INT vs MEM ratio?

Personally I like to have a lot of versatility. Especially on my casters. I pump them about evenly with a few points in CON on occasion so I can wear the best shields.

[Avilan the Grey]

Personally I like to have a lot of versatility. Especially on my casters. I pump them about evenly with a few points in CON on occasion so I can wear the best shields.

Thanks both of you for your advice.

[factotum]

If it means anything, I'm with Keltest. A lot of skills you learn are either unusable or you find you never use them in actual combat, so you don't need to memorise everything you've learned. Since memory is otherwise a dead skill (it doesn't offer passive boosts like Wits does) I think it's a waste to put too many points in it.

[Avilan the Grey]

If it means anything, I'm with Keltest. A lot of skills you learn are either unusable or you find you never use them in actual combat, so you don't need to memorise everything you've learned. Since memory is otherwise a dead skill (it doesn't offer passive boosts like Wits does) I think it's a waste to put too many points in it.

So basically put points into MEM if the skill slots feels overcrowded.

[factotum]

So basically put points into MEM if the skill slots feels overcrowded.

Yes, and also remember that you get an extra memory slot every couple of levels regardless of your memory stat, so by the time you hit level 20 you'll have about 15 slots even if you've never put a point in MEM. You'll probably want a few points in there, especially once you start getting skills that take up 2 or 3 slots, but not many overall.

[Keltest]

Yes, and also remember that you get an extra memory slot every couple of levels regardless of your memory stat, so by the time you hit level 20 you'll have about 15 slots even if you've never put a point in MEM. You'll probably want a few points in there, especially once you start getting skills that take up 2 or 3 slots, but not many overall.

There are also items that boost mem, just like other stats, so if you find youre having trouble with that, they can be a source of some quick mem for more skills.

[Avilan the Grey]

Well. First death. Lohse died against the crocodiles. Annoying but true. Upped her CON a little bit.

...so I knew about the... corrupted... father of the Magister. Unfortunately I had already talked to his daughter so I couldn't in good concience keep the ring. I did however chose to kill him; I think his armor was a better reward than a staff that was only marginally better than what I already had.

[factotum]

You'll probably have more trouble in Fort Joy than you will for most of the rest of the game--this is a proper old-school RPG where it gets easier as you level up, get better gear and learn skills, although the fights remain entertaining. On my second playthrough I don't think my main character has died once since leaving Fort Joy, although some of my companions have--it's always a good idea to have at least one Resurrect scroll in each character's inventory so you can do a battlefield rez. Oh, and the perk that means you come back to life with full health rather than 20% after a rez is almost mandatory for any character that you think might die in battle--otherwise, it's way too easy to rez them and for them to die again before they even get to take a turn.

[Avilan the Grey]

You'll probably have more trouble in Fort Joy than you will for most of the rest of the game--this is a proper old-school RPG where it gets easier as you level up, get better gear and learn skills, although the fights remain entertaining. On my second playthrough I don't think my main character has died once since leaving Fort Joy, although some of my companions have--it's always a good idea to have at least one Resurrect scroll in each character's inventory so you can do a battlefield rez. Oh, and the perk that means you come back to life with full health rather than 20% after a rez is almost mandatory for any character that you think might die in battle--otherwise, it's way too easy to rez them and for them to die again before they even get to take a turn.

I am sorting things out. Right now it seems I am stuck escaping though I didn't want to yet. On my way to the turtles I stupidly jumped into a hole... so I had to slog my way through a tough guy and his minions and then some slugs. If I understand correctly this is an escape route, and there's really no way back? Still haven't talked to the elves in the cave or fought the turtles...

Edit: Okay, that was just the escape from the basement.

[Avilan the Grey]

One more question: How often should you talk to your teammates?

[Keltest]

One more question: How often should you talk to your teammates?

Typically if they have something to say, they get a little yellow ! above their heads. They'll also usually have something to say after you complete an objective for their personal quest, that's mostly elaborating on a conversation they just had with an NPC.

Also, if you get stuck somewhere you don't want to be, remember that you can jump to any waypoint you have unlocked from anywhere. It doesn't matter if youre currently at one or not.

[factotum]

OK, just completed second play-through. While doing so, I realised that I never technically completed the *first* play-through--I thought that making the choice after the final battle was the end of the game, but it turns out the actual end of the game happens when you speak to the Lady Vengeance after making that choice, which I never did first time round! There's still another choice I could make, but I don't want another playthrough and can't be bothered to roll the dice on that final battle again, so I'll uninstall now and see what Larian's next offering is.

(Steam stats say I've got 167 hours played--considering I had more than 90 on the first playthrough, guess I did the second one quite a bit faster!).

[Avilan the Grey]

I think I need to prepare myself more. I have absolutely no chance against Kniles and the gang. I'm lvl 4 with as good gear as I can buy or find.

[Keltest]

I think I need to prepare myself more. I have absolutely no chance against Kniles and the gang. I'm lvl 4 with as good gear as I can buy or find.

Kniles will still be hanging out in the dungeons if you escape via some other route and come back.

[Avilan the Grey]

Kniles will still be hanging out in the dungeons if you escape via some other route and come back.

Well yes. I am officially on the last lap, going for the Soul Jar. Is upstairs easier to start with?
A lot of people online say "oh I'm lvl 7 or 8 at that point, Git Gud!" but they also admit to do 0% roleplaying and killing every person in camp to get the XP. So, no. I won't be doing that.

[Keltest]

Well yes. I am officially on the last lap, going for the Soul Jar. Is upstairs easier to start with?
A lot of people online say "oh I'm lvl 7 or 8 at that point, Git Gud!" but they also admit to do 0% roleplaying and killing every person in camp to get the XP. So, no. I won't be doing that.

Upstairs might actually be harder than Kniles if you approach it from the dungeons. But you can go back outside and start picking fights with the magisters hanging around the gate (brute force is one of the ways to escape the fort, if one of the hardest). Gets you a little bit of loot too.

[factotum]

If you're going in via the drain, can't you sneak past Kniles and his minions? Has to be said, though, the minions really aren't much of a problem. Kniles himself hits like a truck so you need to concentrate on taking him down--just ignore everything else until he's dead.

Second playthrough I actually found Kniles kind of easy at level 4, but I'd piled points into summoning so my Incarnate was quite a bit tougher than any of my party members--he was able to go toe-to-toe with Kniles pretty easily. Do you have the two infusions as well as the Summon Incarnate spell? If not, you should get them ASAP--an Incarnate buffed with those has better armour and has considerably more tactical options than the basic "hit them until they stop moving" that the base model gets.

[Avilan the Grey]

I am feeling very very clever right now.

I scouted the area without talking to him and decided to do a little experiment.
On the "balcony" to the right there is only one entrance, although wide. I placed all my ppl on there and then used the teleportation gloves to move the three coffins to sort of block the entrance. It doesn't work completely, because the game has made sure you can't do it it seems (you can't teleport things too close together). However as luck would have it I realized Fane was carrying around an ooze barrel for some reason... It fit very snuggly in the space between two of the coffins so the route was now blocked.

The coffins has 600 HP btw so...


Step 1: Teleported the nearest agitated monk into my group and pummeled him to death.
Step 2: Kniles comes a-teleportin' in and gets set on fire and electrecuted and pummeled. Still manages to kill Sebille, because everyone in the world including lesser mice can kill Sebille. *Sigh*
Step 3: The other two monks starts beating on the coffins.
Step 4: I teleport Kniles outside to the sea of oil and fire that is now the outside of the barricade.
Step 5: The other two monks keeps beating on the coffins.
Step 6: Kniles gets pummeled by everything I have.
Step 7: Kniles teleports back in, still on fire, and still kills Sebille. Again.
Step 8: The Golems starts beating on the coffins.
Step 9: The monks keeps beating on the coffins.
Step 10: Kniles gets teleported back out into the fire AGAIN. Dies.
Step 11 - 22: Everyone that has a distance attack lobs it at the golems and monks while they flail around desperately trying to get 600 HP down to 0 before they die. They don't.
Step 23: Fane rips Knile's face off.

[factotum]

I had Sebille with me on my second playthrough. I made her rather less of a glass cannon by making her main skill Polymorph--you get a free stat point with every point you put into that, so I pumped her Constitution. You can also make good use of Flesh Sacrifice and Adrenaline to make sure she gets enough backstabs in to put down whatever enemy she's standing behind. Flurry is like the dual wielding equivalent of All In--don't bother using it unless you have exactly 3 action points left and no way to gain any more, because you'll do more damage with two regular attacks than with a single Flurry. I found myself using the actual skills granted by Polymorph less and less as the game went on, though, because she was just dealing so much more damage with backstabs that they were largely useless.

Oh, and I had a one-point drop into Warfare for her so she could learn Battle Stomp--it does ranged damage based on your weapon damage, and knocks down enemies with little or no physical armour, so it's enormously useful. Beast also had Battle Stomp, and he and the Incarnate also had Battering Ram, so they were great for crowd control!

[Avilan the Grey]

I did go another way with her (I will pump her CON some more): Necromancy, to boost health by doing damage.
As for a second playthrough... I am already dreading it a bit because I don't think I'll change my party. The two I left out are left out because I really don't find them interesting.

[Keltest]

I had Sebille with me on my second playthrough. I made her rather less of a glass cannon by making her main skill Polymorph--you get a free stat point with every point you put into that, so I pumped her Constitution. You can also make good use of Flesh Sacrifice and Adrenaline to make sure she gets enough backstabs in to put down whatever enemy she's standing behind. Flurry is like the dual wielding equivalent of All In--don't bother using it unless you have exactly 3 action points left and no way to gain any more, because you'll do more damage with two regular attacks than with a single Flurry. I found myself using the actual skills granted by Polymorph less and less as the game went on, though, because she was just dealing so much more damage with backstabs that they were largely useless.

Oh, and I had a one-point drop into Warfare for her so she could learn Battle Stomp--it does ranged damage based on your weapon damage, and knocks down enemies with little or no physical armour, so it's enormously useful. Beast also had Battle Stomp, and he and the Incarnate also had Battering Ram, so they were great for crowd control!

Flight and Tentacle Lash are useful to keep on your bar at all times. Atrophy is a debuff that cannot be underestimated, especially on an opening volley that has a pretty high possibility of burning through all their physical armor.

its one of the few times where using physical attacks against the melee fighters is as good as using spell attacks against them, because turning off all their attacks and skills is just too good to pass up.

[Avilan the Grey]

HUh. I just got the achivement "Apprentice - Use your first Source skill".
I am still in Fort Joy and still collared. Weird.

[factotum]

Flight and Tentacle Lash are useful to keep on your bar at all times.

Flight is less useful for Sebille because she can already get two effective short-range teleport skills--Backlash and Cloak and Dagger. I think Flight has longer range, but that's a problem less often than you'd think. Tentacle Lash only really works when the enemy's physical armour is down, and I would rather knock them over in that situation than remove their weapon--even a melee character can have some nasty spells in their arsenal, but they can't use weapons *or* spells when they're lying on the floor!

[Avilan the Grey]

Another dumb question:
Is something supposed to trigger with the Paladin arguing outside? I can walk in circles around them and they keep repeaiting dialogue forever.

[Keltest]

Flight is less useful for Sebille because she can already get two effective short-range teleport skills--Backlash and Cloak and Dagger. I think Flight has longer range, but that's a problem less often than you'd think. Tentacle Lash only really works when the enemy's physical armour is down, and I would rather knock them over in that situation than remove their weapon--even a melee character can have some nasty spells in their arsenal, but they can't use weapons *or* spells when they're lying on the floor!

Flight is nice because it makes you immune to those pesky surfaces, which tends to be one of the more troublesome things that get Sebille killed or otherwise more wounded than I really want her to be.

I also like it for exploration, because it has a much shorter cooldown than C&D, which mean less waiting around.


Another dumb question:
Is something supposed to trigger with the Paladin arguing outside? I can walk in circles around them and they keep repeaiting dialogue forever.

Yes, but I think it might be broken. You can just shank one of the magisters and start combat, and the trigger will go on.

[Avilan the Grey]

Flight is nice because it makes you immune to those pesky surfaces, which tends to be one of the more troublesome things that get Sebille killed or otherwise more wounded than I really want her to be.

I also like it for exploration, because it has a much shorter cooldown than C&D, which mean less waiting around.



Yes, but I think it might be broken. You can just shank one of the magisters and start combat, and the trigger will go on.


Thanks.
I googled this for 20 minutes yesteday and didn't get a hit. Then I posted this, and immediately afterwards found one.
Yes it is broken, apparently the last patch bugged it out so the magisters were auto-hostile from get go (no dialogue, just fight). While fixing it they put in a temp block this way (apparently) so you can trigger it on your own terms, somehow.

[factotum]

Flight is nice because it makes you immune to those pesky surfaces, which tends to be one of the more troublesome things that get Sebille killed or otherwise more wounded than I really want her to be.

Admittedly, I've only ever played the game in Classic difficulty, but I've never found surfaces to be a big problem. The critical thing is not to go running through them--if you use teleportation abilities to move around, ranged attacks where possible, and otherwise stand still, you don't take much damage from them (so long as you have halfway decent magic armour, of course). The AI *does* tend to go running through them and thus takes far more damage than you ever do.

I found Sebille to be most vulnerable to physical attacks, because Finesse-based armour tends to be fairly evenly balanced between magical and physical armour and dual wielding leaves no room for a shield--that means she had by far the weakest physical armour of any of my four characters, making her very vulnerable to Battle Stomp, Overpower, Crippling Blow and the like.

[Keltest]

Admittedly, I've only ever played the game in Classic difficulty, but I've never found surfaces to be a big problem. The critical thing is not to go running through them--if you use teleportation abilities to move around, ranged attacks where possible, and otherwise stand still, you don't take much damage from them (so long as you have halfway decent magic armour, of course). The AI *does* tend to go running through them and thus takes far more damage than you ever do.

I found Sebille to be most vulnerable to physical attacks, because Finesse-based armour tends to be fairly evenly balanced between magical and physical armour and dual wielding leaves no room for a shield--that means she had by far the weakest physical armour of any of my four characters, making her very vulnerable to Battle Stomp, Overpower, Crippling Blow and the like.

Odd, ive never actually seen an enemy run through a surface they could avoid unless they were healed by it (or flying). That's part of why I like to have her able to avoid them: I tend to scatter them around the enemies so that they cant maneuver very well without taking damage or teleporting.