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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next 5e Ability, Skill and Tool Use DCs



Jormengand
2017-09-19, 11:43 AM
Preface

You have, if you've played 5th edition and been on the 5e board of this forum, probably heard or made complaints about the variable difficulties. Put simply, the game doesn't give you specific answers to the question "What is the climb DC to climb up a rocky wall?" It doesn't even give you examples of what you should expect for the DCs. This provides a list of examples for what might be a specific DC for the task you're attempting. DMs using this list should give a copy to their players so that they know what to expect - essentially, consider this the type of information which could be listed in the Players' Handbook.

This list is made by someone who is not an expert in all the activities that can be performed with skill checks and tools, especially the ones which don't actually exist. Obviously, you can modify it to suit your game if needed or wanted.

The tools list includes the kinds of checks that you would make with those tools if you knew how to use them. In general, you can still attempt the check if you're not proficient in them. If you don't have the tools, you need to improvise, usually imposing disadvantage but still allowing you to use your tool proficiency.

Ability and Skill List

Strength

You can make a strength check to force open a door, so long as it isn't barred. You can bash a door down even if it is barred, but it's harder. This kind of activity usually takes an action.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Force open a stuck door
Easy
10


Force open a locked door
Hard
20


Force open a bolted door
Very hard
25


Bash a wooden door down
Hard
20


Bash a metal door or barred wooden door down
Very Hard
25


Bash a barred metal door down
Nearly Impossible
30



You can spend your entire turn to try to break free of bindings using sheer force, but it's practically impossible without some help.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Break free of rope bindings
Very Hard
25


Break free of metal bindings
Nearly Impossible
30



You can push through gaps which won't normally fit you in with sheer force. Doing this usually requires an action during your movement.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Push through a narrow gap
Medium
15


Push through a gap you can barely fit inside
Hard
20



You can knock over furnishings and other objects as an action. It's one step harder to knock over an item which is attached to the floor, and impossible to knock over an object which is actually part of the same object as the ground it's on.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Knock over a chair
Easy
10


Knock over a table
Medium
15


Knock over a bookshelf full of books
Hard
20


Knock over a heavy statue
Very Hard
25



You can prevent objects from falling due to gravity or other forces.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Prevent a wagon from moving
Hard
20


Prevent a boulder from rolling down a hill
Hard
20


Prevent the cieling from collapsing
Very hard
25



Athletics

You can use athletics to climb a variety of objects at half your land speed. If you have a climb speed, you don't need to take the check, but you may check to attempt to move at half your land speed if that's faster than you can climb normally.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Climb a ladder
Trivial
0


Climb a knotted rope
Very Easy
5


Climb up a wall with handholds or pitons
Easy
10


Climb up a wall with places to put your hands and feet, a flat chimney, or a normal tree
Medium
15


Climb up a rough wall or climb a ladder from underneath
Hard
20


Climb up a smooth pole or climb a very rough ceiling from underneath
Very hard
25


Climb a dragon who is trying to eat you
Nearly Impossible
30



It's not very difficult to hold onto a ledge, but a lot harder if that ledge is moving. If you fall, you can often try to catch yourself while falling but you have disadvantage on your check if you attempt this.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Hang onto an edge
Easy
10


Hang onto a moving edge
Hard
20



You can try to jump an unusually long distance or pull off a stunt mid-jump. You may have to attempt two jump checks if you perform a stunt during a very long jump. If you want to jump unusually far horizontally and vertically, however, make one check and add the DCs. You have disadvantage on any check where you attempt a jump without a good running start of at least 10 feet in about the same direction as the jump.

Failing a check to jump an unusually long distance indicates that you travel as far as you could have with that roll. If you jump straight off a wall, you make another jump check to see how far you go, but you have disadvantage on the check.

Jump distances are in addition to the normal distance you can jump routinely.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Jump unusually far horizontally
Varies
3 per foot jumped.


Jump unusually far vertically
Varies
10 per foot jumped.


Grab an item mid-jump
Medium
15


Perform a stunt, such as a flip, midair, or attack in midair
Hard
20


Land on a wall and immediately make another jump from the wall.
Hard
20



You can swim at half your land speed. If you are proficient in athletics, you do not need to make any sort of checks to swim unless the DC is at least 15.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Stay afloat
Very Easy
5


Swim Routinely
Easy
10


In waves
+1 step
+5


In a storm
+2 steps
+10


With impeded movement
Disadvantage
Same


Resist being pushed down
Opposed
Vs Strength (Null)



Dexterity

You can use dexterity to control a vehicle, such as a cart. You only usually need to make a check at all if something unusual is happening, such as trying to move a vehicle very quickly or in combat. "Drive a vehicle normally" on the table means driving normally under such pressure.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Drive a vehicle normally
Easy
10


Drive a vehicle beyond its standard speed or maneuverability
Medium
15


Bring an out-of-control vehicle back under your control in dangerous circumstances
Hard
20



You can try to tie someone up or untie yourself by escaping from your bonds. It's generally a lot easier to tie someone up securely than to escape from being tied up, so the person tying the other person up gets advantage on the check and the person trying to escape has disadvantage on their check.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Binding and escaping
Opposed
Vs Dexterity (Null)



Acrobatics

You can use acrobatics to balance yourself on a slippery or moving surface or perform tricks.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Balance on a slippery, narrow or moving surface
Medium
15


Balance on a slippery and narrow, narrow and moving or moving and slippery surface
Hard
20


Balance on a narrow, slippery, moving surface
Very hard
25


Do a forwards or backwards roll
Easy
10


Do a handstand, cartwheel, or bridge from the ground
Medium
15


Do a front flip, handstand-drop-to-roll, or single-hand stand
Hard
20



Sleight of Hand

You can use Sleight of Hand to pull off all sorts of mischief, such as picking a creature's pocket, planting evidence on them, or cheating at cards. Each creature who is paying attention can oppose you by making a wisdom (perception) check to notice you. If the creature you're trying to steal from or plant evidence on notices you, it's trivial for them to stop you.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Sleight of Hand
Opposed
Vs Wisdom (Perception)



Stealth

You use stealth to sneak past enemies. Unless circumstances change, you usually only need to make one stealth check to see if you're spotted and enemies usually only get one perception check each to spot you. Enemies who aren't actively looking for you use their passive perception score. You have advantage on your stealth check if the ground is very quiet and easy to move on and disadvantage if it's a loud surface like a metal staircase.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Stealth
Opposed
Vs Wisdom (Perception)



Constitution

You can attempt a variety of tasks with constitution - note that these tasks generally do already have rules which do not involve constitution checks, but the description of constitution itself says that they do. You can use the rules here or the normal rules.

Holding your breath, staying alive without nourishment, staying awake for a long time and forced marching require successive checks of increasing difficulty, which start out almost impossible to fail and rapidly become more difficult. If you fail a check to hold your breath, you start to drown, cannot take actions, and must take death saves until a creature performs first aid on you or you pass enough death saves to recover. Ignore any death saves passed while still underwater (or in space!). If you fail a check to survive without food, you die. If you fail a check to survive without water, you collapse helpless; creatures have three rounds to give you water before you die. If you fail a check to stay awake, you fall asleep. You take 1d6 points of falling damage if you're standing up.

You gain advantage on a drinking contest if you drink regularly and disadvantage if you rarely drink.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Hold your breath
Scaling
1 per round


Survive without food longer than 2 weeks
Scaling
1 per 4 hours


Survive without water for longer than 2 days
Scaling
1 per hour


Resist falling asleep for longer than 36 hours
Scaling
1 per hour


March for longer than 4 hours
Scaling
5 per hour


Win a drinking contest
Opposed
Vs constitution (Null)



Intelligence

You use intelligence to communicate without a common language. If you do, whoever has the better intelligence makes the check each time, with advantage from the person they're talking to helping them (if they are). If the person you're trying to talk to isn't interested in helping you communicate, you use your own intelligence and don't have advantage on the check.

You can try again on the check, but if you fail it by 5 or more, the person has taken some meaning you didn't intend from the exchange and they may be offended or confused. Generally, you can only hold a person's interest for so long, as well. You do need to choose what difficulty of check you are attempting before you do it.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Communicate with no common language (Basic concepts)
Medium
15


Communicate with no common language (Partial sentences)
Hard
20


Communicate with no common languages (Full comprehension)
Very hard
25



You can use intelligence to determine the values of objects. You don't know whether you succeed or fail the check: it should be rolled in secret; failure indicates that you mis-value the object, believing its value to be 10*(2d6+3)% of its actual value. You cannot, of course, try again. You cannot really appraise an object in combat; attempting to do so always fails (which still allows you to guess at its value).

You add your proficiency bonus to appraise checks to value any item you're proficient with, as it's assumed that you know its functionality and composition well enough to guess at its value.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Appraise common objects (such as quantities of iron or martial weapons)
Easy
10


Appraise uncommon objects (such as magic trinkets and gems)
Moderate
15


Appraise rare objects (such as minor magic items and rare materials)
Hard
20


Appraise very rare objects (such as minor magic items and magical materials)
Very Hard
25



Arcana, History, Nature and Religion

You can use these four skills to identify facts about their particular sphere of influence. It's not possible to be entirely comprehensive, but the table below gives the DC to know particular facts. You can't try again and it doesn't take an action to roll - you either know something or you don't.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Know obvious trivia about magic, the current ruler, what dogs are, the local church's deity
Trivial
0


Know that spells vary in power, the royal family, local wildlife, the names of the gods
Very easy
5


Know about magic items, current events, local natural hazards, celestial and infernal realms
Easy
10


Know the effectiveness of superstitious rituals, the country's history, how to handle animals, specific divine teaching
Medium
15


Know specific facts about the relevant category
Hard
20


Know minutae about the relevant category
Very hard
25


Know guarded secrets about the relevant category
Nearly Impossible
30



You can use these abilities to identify a creature. In general, abberations, constructs, dragons, elementals and monstrosities are arcana-related, beasts, giants and humanoids are history-related, fey, oozes and plants are nature-related, and celestials, fiends and undead are religion-related.

How hard a check is isn't related to how powerful the creature is, but how common they are and how well-known they are beyond what they might necessarily warrant. For example, dragons are iconic enough to be usually easy to recognise irrespective of their actual rarity, as are angels. It's almost impossible to recognise a gibbering mouther, though.

Recognising a specific, named creature is generally irrespective of how hard it is to name a general creature of that type, but is almost never any easier.

You can also use these abilities to identify a spell. This is known as "Spellcraft". It requires an arcana check to identify arcane spells, a religion check to identify divine spells cast by a cleric or paladin (or other class getting their power from actual deities or religion) or nature to identify divine spells cast by a druid or ranger (or other class getting their power from nature). A history check can identify some more obscure abilities, such as psionics or truespeak.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Identify a Creature
Varies
Varies


Perform Spellcraft (Spell written down)
Varies
5+spell level


Perform Spellcraft (Spell being cast)
Varies
10+spell level


Perform Spellcraft (Identify spell in a non-scroll magic item without using it)
Varies
15+spell level



Investigation

You can use Investigation to find an item that has been hidden or misplaced, or to work out what happened at some point in time previously. When someone's trying to hide an object, they make an intelligence (Sleight of Hand) check (because it doesn't matter how good you are with your hands, only how clever a hiding place you can think of!). This also happens if someone tries to cover up a crime. In general, it's trivial to solve a crime if no-one tried to cover it up. Some crimes, however, aren't tied to anyone's particular skill at hiding something - for example, if someone commits a crime in a public place littered in miscellanea, it doesn't matter whether they leave footprints or scraps of their clothes lying about. Usually, solving this type of crime is very hard.

Sometimes, though, investigation may lead to a witness no matter how hard a character tries to cover their tracks, or it may be otherwise physically impossible to cover up the crime. Circumstances may also make it very easy or very difficult to cover up a crime, giving the person trying it advantage or disadvantage on the check.

In general, you can't try this kind of check again. An investigation check represents the entire investigation that is taking place. An intelligence-based sleight of hand check represents the entirety of your attempt to hide an object or cover up a crime.

In the case of a crime spanning multiple locations, it's very dangerous to commit a crime like this because the criminals need to make a separate check to cover it at each location, and you get a separate investigation check at each location.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Find a misplaced object
Easy
10


Find a hidden object
Opposed
Vs Intelligence (Sleight of Hand)


Solve a crime which has been covered up.
Opposed
Vs Intelligence (Sleight of Hand)


Solve a crime with no substantial evidence
Very Hard
25



Wisdom

You can use wisdom to get a general feel for something, or work out what you should do next. While Intelligence (Religion) is used to identify undead creatures, you can also use wisdom to discern that a seemingly living or dead creature is in fact undead. This is trivial for most undead, but some are harder to discern.

Wisdom can also be used to make a catch roll. A catch roll represents your character realising a key piece of information which you as a player might not have considered. You make a catch roll if you try to swim in full plate, draw a sword that you left at the door, or open a chest which the rogue told you earlier was trapped. Catch rolls represent the character's experience in adventuring coming into play, so everyone is proficient in catch rolls. The DM shouldn't ever call for a catch roll if the character couldn't have forgotten the piece of information, such as their location, what they're holding in their hands, or what they can see in front of them.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Hunch (Assess situation or general feel of what to do next)
Easy
10


Hunch (Tell that person is acting strangely)
Medium
15


Hunch (Tell that person is under a compulsion effect)
Hard
20


Discern Undead (Ghoul/Ghast/Zombie is not a person)
Easy
10


Discern Undead (Skeleton/mummy/zombie/lich is not a corpse)
Medium
15


Discern Undead (Vampire/Spawn is not a person or corpse)
Hard
20


Catch (Obvious information)
Very Easy
5


Catch (Major information)
Easy
10


Catch (Annoying details)
Medium
15



Animal Handling

Animal handling is used to train animals. You can also control an untrained mount in combat by checking at the start of combat. You can attempt a dexterity (Animal Handling) roll instead of the dexterity save to avoid being thrown off your mount.

Training an animal takes a time dependent on the animal, but it's often several weeks or more. You can try again to train an animal.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Train an animal
Medium
15


Control an untrained animal in combat
Hard
20


Mount is uncooperative
+1 category
+5


Mount is wilful
+2 categories
+10


Avoid being thrown from your mount (Dexterity)
Easy
10



Insight

You can sense a creature's motives using an insight check. This includes working out when they're lying. You usually only get one insight check to sense each creature's motive in each circumstance, so you get one chance for each thing the creature says is true.

If someone is telling the truth, you make a medium check; failure indicates you think they're lying.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Sense Motive
Medium or Opposed
15 or Vs Charisma (Deception)



Medicine

Medicine is used to perform first aid on a creature who is dying. You can also try to cure a disease; use your medicine check against the disease's save DC as well as the creature taking the save; if either of you passes, the save is treated as passed. You can use medicine much like knowledge skills (see Arcana, History, Nature and Religion) for medical knowledge, but the check is intelligence (medicine) in this case.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


First Aid
Easy
10


Cure Disease
Varies
Save DC



Perception

You can notice something unusual or someone trying to hide.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Notice something very unusual
Easy
10


Notice something strange
Medium
15


Notice a hiding creature
Opposed
Vs Dexterity (Stealth)



Survival

You can survive in the wild or track a creature. A creature who isn't trying to hide their tracks is usually easy to find. You may get advantage or disadvantage to track them depending on the type of surface - tracking a creature on a beach is easier than tracking them on stone. It's not usually possible to track a creature through water.

You must choose whether to try to move at half or full speed when surviving in the wild before making the check. Failure of the check usually indicates that you stumble across a random encounter or hazard.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Survive in the wild (move at half speed)
Medium
15


Survive in the wild (move at normal speed)
Hard
20


Track a creature
Easy or Opposed
10 or Vs Dexterity (Stealth)



You might use a survival check to predict the weather, but it's hard, and failing by 5 or more indicates that you've made an incorrect prediction. You can predict the weather during the next 6 hours or so.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Predict weather
Hard
20



Charisma

You can use charisma to catch people's attention.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Catch a creature's attention
Very Easy
5


Have a noticeable, particular presence in a room
Medium
15


Inspire awe
Hard
20



You can also use a charisma check to gather information. In general, you can try again, but it takes time. It might only take a few minutes to find directions to somewhere which is not a secret but longer to gather a rumour about the head of the local crime syndicate.

Irrespective of how well you do, people can always gather information back about you to find out that you were asking questions!



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Gather information which is fairly well known
Easy
10


Gather information which is hidden or not spoken of
Hard
20


Gather Information which is a secret
Disadvantage
Disadvantage



Deception

You use deception to decieve people, intuitively. They use intuition to try to sense your motives. You and they might get advantage or disadvantage for a variety of reasons, such as if you're telling an easy-to-believe lie (you get advantage), you're telling a hard-to-believe lie (you get disadvantage) or they can't see your body language while you're lying (they get disadvantage).

If you and another creature are trying to convince a third creature of your side of the story, the person who is telling the truth is considered to be helping the creature being spoken to. If the liar wins, they are believed; if the result is an exact tie then the listener doesn't know who to believe. If neither speaker is telling the truth, then they both roll separately; if at least one of you equals or defeats the insight roll then the person who rolls higher convinces the person listening (if you roll the same number as each other but equal or defeat the insight roll, the listener doesn't know who to believe); if you both fail then the listener works out that you're both lying.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Lie
Opposed
Vs Wisdom (Intuition)



Intimidate

You can intimidate a creature. They usually get a wisdom save against being intimdated. If you pose a real, direct threat to them, you get advantage; if you don't pose any threat to them at all you get disadvantage.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Intimidate
Opposed
Vs Wisdom (Save)



Perform

You can make a performance. You do not need to choose how good a performance you're putting on before you try one. If you are proficient in performance, and you are also proficient in the instrument you're using to perform, you have advantage on the check.

Trying to make money by playing in public allows you to make a certain amount of money per day depending on how good your performance is. If you perform in public every day, you might be able to use your passive perform score.

Performing doesn't necessarily just require charisma. If you're performing a dance routine, you may need to make a dexterity (perform) check or even a dexterity (acrobatics) check instead, for example.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Routine Performance (1d10 cp)
Easy
10


Enjoyable performance (1d10 sp)
Medium
15


Great Performance (3d10 sp)
Hard
20


Memorable Performance (1d6 gp)
Very Hard
25


Extraordinary Performance (3d6 gp)
Almost Impossible
30



Persuasion

You can use persuasion to convince someone that they want to do something that they don't really want to do, or that it's a good idea to do something that's actually a bad idea. You don't need to persuade people to do their ordinary jobs, but negotiations are a persuasion check. You roll against the enemy's charisma save. People who have reason to dislike you get advantage on their save, while people who have a close relationship with you get disadvantage on their save. You get advantage on your persuasion roll to convince someone to do something trivial or if you bribe them sufficiently; you get disasvantage if they have a good reason against doing it. It's just not possible to persuade someone to do something of outlandish deficit to themselves for no compelling reason. You don't usually even need to roll to persuade someone to accept your aid without asking for recompense.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Persuade
Opposed
Vs Charisma (Save)



Tool List

Artisan's Tools

You need artisan's tools to perform your craft. In general, crafting checks are Intelligence (Artisan's Tools) checks, though jewellery and painting might use Charisma (Artisan's Tools) to create an artwork. In any case, you can usually make a number of gold pieces per week equal to your crafting check result. Making a weapon takes a week, multiplied by the difficulty class of making that item, divided by your check result (assume that a week represents 112 hours' work). Making a shield takes twice as long and armour takes five times that long. It's assumed that most of the items players' are interested in crafting will be combat items, but other items work on similar guidelines.

If you craft a specific item, you need to pay a third of the item's cost for the raw materials in the item and if you fail the check, the materials are wasted. Heavy armour crafters usually have multiple skilled workers for this reason. That said, if your job is to craft items, you can ususally use your passive artisan's tools check.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Earn money with your craft
Special
See text


Craft a simple weapon
Easy
10


Craft a martial weapon
Medium
15


Craft light armour
Easy
10


Craft medium armour
Medium
15


Craft heavy armour
Hard
20



Disguise kit

You use Intelligence (Disguise Kit) to disguise yourself, against an observer's perception. You might also need a charisma (Deception) check to convince the observer that you are the person in question, though. The disguise takes a few minutes to put together. You might get advantage or disadvantage on the check if you try to disguise as someone similar or different to you, and you can't disguise as anyone who you really don't look like at all.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Disguise
Opposed
Vs Wisdom (Perception)



Forgery Kit

Intelligence (Forgery Kit) is used to make forgeries, and Wisdom (Investigation) or Wisdom (Forgery kit) is used to detect them (the detective doesn't need a forgery kit to hand). You might get advantage if you have a copy of a real version of a similar document to hand in either case, or disadvantage if the type of document isn't familiar to you in either case.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Forgery
Opposed
Vs Wisdom (Investigation) or (Forgery Kit)



Gaming Set

Playing a game is an opposed check. Games of mental skill are usually intelligence-based; games of deception and bluff are wisdom- or charisma-based (each player chooses separately) and games of physical skill are usually dexterity-based. A player who's proficient with the game and also with a skill relevant to the game has advantage; players with skills relevant to the game or proficiency with the game just get their proficiency bonus. If the rolls are a draw, the game is also a draw; if the game cannot be a draw (due to the nature of the game), randomly determine a winner from among the players with the best rolls.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Win a game
Opposed
Vs Various (Gaming Kit) or (Relevant Skill)



Herbalism Kit

A creature can use a herbalism kit to prepare herbs. The herbalism kit is often usable in place of a medicine check for the same thing; a creature who can apply both and is proficient in both gains advantage.

Musical Instrument

Proficiency in a musical instrument can be used instead of performance proficiency; you gain advantage if you have both.

Navigator's Tools

It's possible to discern your direction and location with navigator's tools.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Discern own direction
Easy
10


Discern own location
Medium
15



Poisoner's Kit

A poisoner's kit works just like artisan's tools for making poison. You can attempt to poison a drink or apply a contact poison to a surface using dexterity (Poisoner's Kit) or dexterity (Sleight of Hand). You get advantage if you have both proficiencies. You also add your proficiency bonus to attack rolls with weapons which are used specifically to deliver poison (such as a poison syringe but not a dagger which happens to be poisoned) if you're proficient with a poisoner's kit.

Thieves' Tools

You can open locks and disable traps with thieves' tools. The rules for traps are given in the relevant section.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Disable Traps
Varies
Save DC


Open Lock (Ordinary)
Medium
15


Open Lock (Good)
Hard
20


Open Lock (Masterwork)
Very Hard
25



Making new skills and tools

A few guidelines for making new skills and tools are as follows:

Skills are not powerful: Generally, a skill or tool use shouldn't have world-changing effects. If the effects of the skill go beyond the PCs' immediate sphere of influence, it's probably too powerful.
Skills are not versatile: A skill or tool does about one thing. Stealth hides; thieves' tools remove man-made obstacles, and so forth. A skill doesn't tend to have a large number of uses; if you're using a skill all the time, it's probably too versatile.
Medium is about 50% for a normal, trained human: A human who's good at something (14 in relevant ability) and knows how to do it (proficiency) needs an 11 to make a medium check. Humans generally specialise in things they have a natural talent for anyway, so you can assume that if someone does something as a day job, anything related to their job that's medium is about 50/50 that they can actually do it on the first try. Similarly, "Easy" isn't actually that easy and "Nearly impossible" is genuinely impossible for most people.

Suppose you wanted to introduce psionics into your campaign (specifically the type that appeared in the revised third edition), you might create a new skill: wisdom (autohypnosis). The revised third edition rules allowed you to roll autohypnosis instead of a death save. This is too powerful for a skill. However, allowing you to resist pain (such as a caltrop wound, as in the original) or roll wisdom (autohypnosis) instead of a constitution save against poison are uncommon enough uses for a skill. You might, for example, come up with the following skill:

Autohypnosis

Autohypnosis allows you to resist fear, pain or even poison through sheer willpower. Ignoring a caltrop wound lets you act normally with just a single roll, but you can only try once. You can also memorise a single page of text or equivalent amount of information (about 800 words). In this case the DM rolls in secret; failure indicates that you cannot recall the information when needed.



Activity
Difficulty
DC


Resist Fear or Poison
Varies
Save DC


Ignore Caltrop Wound
Hard
20


Memorize
Medium
15



With this guidance, you should be able to set predictable and challenging skill DCs, while also being able to adapt to situations as they come up and make your own skills.

AvatarVecna
2017-09-27, 08:48 AM
I feel like most of these DCs are close to the right place. Something I like to generally keep in mind when thinking about skills is that, for a 1st lvl character, a DC 30 check is impossible to make without assistance, but a DC 29 is at least theoretically possible (Rogue with Expertise in the skill and 20 in the relevant stat has a +9, and could roll a nat 20. That's not to say a 30 is completely unreachable (the aforementioned Rogue could be a Variant Human whose picked up the Guidance cantrip or has a cleric friend to cast it on them, turning their 0% chance into a 12.5% chance), but generally it's not going to be even remotely possible for characters to make. 25 is much more in reach at lvl 1, though, so things here that are DC 25 I think need to be carefully considered whether they should be impossible for lvl 1s to pull off without assistance or not. Should an entry-level climbing expert with Str 12 be able to crawl around on the ceiling? Should a teenage version of Sherlock Holmes be good enough to solve a crime with barely any evidence? Should the world's most capable first level thief be able to unlock a masterwork lock? Personally, I feel like the answer to all three should be "yes", but I also like skills being relevant, and some might disagree with that being the assumed standard.

One of the only things I'm not sure I really agree with as being the general rule for DCs here is in regards to magic items: the DCs for identifying magic item properties and appraising their value seems to be set lower than what I feel is appropriate for the default assumptions 5e has about how common magic items (and knowledge of them) is. That said, whether it's on the mark or not, it's also the kind of thing that is likely to vary heavily from game to game; an Eberron game with magic trains and artificers everywhere would definitely deserve for magic item knowledge to be the kind of thing an untrained average Joe could get right 50% of the time, but in a setting like LotR where magic items are rare treasures, it should be a bit more difficult to just have heard of such an item growing up in the Shire. Ultimately, most of that isn't something that needs to be directly addressed by homebrew that's intended as guidelines, but I feel that even the guidelines provided here are a bit lower than is appropriate for how uncommon magic items are made out to be in the standard 5e setting.

Jormengand
2017-09-27, 09:10 AM
Should an entry-level climbing expert with Str 12 be able to crawl around on the ceiling? Should a teenage version of Sherlock Holmes be good enough to solve a crime with barely any evidence? Should the world's most capable first level thief be able to unlock a masterwork lock? Personally, I feel like the answer to all three should be "yes", but I also like skills being relevant, and some might disagree with that being the assumed standard.

I think the answer should be "Yes" as well, and more importantly, the retry value makes the difference between "Very very difficult" and "Impossible" more of a technicality than anything - would you ever attempt a climb check which you only had a 1/20 or even 1/5 chance of succeeding (and in the latter case, this rogue is a climbing nut who probably decorates his room with pictures of things he wants to climb) and risk falling damage without an exceptionally good reason? If players feel like making such a check is their best course of action, then the DM is probably doing something horribly wrong anyway. If teenage Holmes tries to solve a crime with barely any evidence, then he's spending a lot of time doing something very dangerous which he can't retry and which is more likely to get him killed than succeed. And a lock that takes two minutes to open is often as good as a lock which can't be opened.


One of the only things I'm not sure I really agree with as being the general rule for DCs here is in regards to magic items: the DCs for identifying magic item properties and appraising their value seems to be set lower than what I feel is appropriate for the default assumptions 5e has about how common magic items (and knowledge of them) is. That said, whether it's on the mark or not, it's also the kind of thing that is likely to vary heavily from game to game; an Eberron game with magic trains and artificers everywhere would definitely deserve for magic item knowledge to be the kind of thing an untrained average Joe could get right 50% of the time, but in a setting like LotR where magic items are rare treasures, it should be a bit more difficult to just have heard of such an item growing up in the Shire. Ultimately, most of that isn't something that needs to be directly addressed by homebrew that's intended as guidelines, but I feel that even the guidelines provided here are a bit lower than is appropriate for how uncommon magic items are made out to be in the standard 5e setting.

That's fair enough; I've made it a bit harder to identify the value of a magic item. That said, appraisal still doesn't tell you what it is, and I assume that no DM will even let you roll to appraise an item when you haven't got a clue what it does. Appraise isn't "Hey, I recognise that sword, it lights on fire during combat!" so much as "Woah, that sword lights on fire during combat! That's gotta be worth around X gold!"

AvatarVecna
2017-09-27, 09:29 AM
That's fair enough; I've made it a bit harder to identify the value of a magic item. That said, appraisal still doesn't tell you what it is, and I assume that no DM will even let you roll to appraise an item when you haven't got a clue what it does. Appraise isn't "Hey, I recognise that sword, it lights on fire during combat!" so much as "Woah, that sword lights on fire during combat! That's gotta be worth around X gold!"

My issue was also in regards to the flat DC 10 on Arcana to have some idea of their function. I don't think none of them should be DC 10, but I think it should scale with rarity in some fashion. This is already a thing for magic items that mimic spells, but not for magic items in general which I think it should be. Common items are probably Easy to identify the properties of (if they're common enough that local nobles might've used them often or something, I dunno), while Uncommon might be Medium or Hard depending, rare will be Very Hard, and legendary would be Impossible (...sometimes).

Of course, something I'm not quite sure how to fully consider is how being rarer could make knowledge of something more common rather than less. I live in the real world where magic isn't an actual thing, but while I couldn't tell you how fast a flying broomstick or magic carpet is supposed to go, I can most definitely tell you what a Philosopher's Stone is capable of.

Thunderfist12
2017-09-27, 10:12 AM
Holy Hell I didn't even realize this was missing from the core rules. Good work man, this is definitely going to help keep gameplay a bit more consistent for my group.

Jormengand
2017-09-27, 01:21 PM
My issue was also in regards to the flat DC 10 on Arcana to have some idea of their function. I don't think none of them should be DC 10, but I think it should scale with rarity in some fashion. This is already a thing for magic items that mimic spells, but not for magic items in general which I think it should be. Common items are probably Easy to identify the properties of (if they're common enough that local nobles might've used them often or something, I dunno), while Uncommon might be Medium or Hard depending, rare will be Very Hard, and legendary would be Impossible (...sometimes).

DC 10 is just to know about magic items in general, not to identify a specific magic item - you can't identify a magic item without performing spellcraft, and even then you can't identify anything which doesn't contain an actual spell. You might be able to identify a specific item by "Know specific facts about the relevant category", I guess. Honestly, though, there has to be some DM discretion. I can't tell you whether flaming swords are staple tools of adventurers or rare curiosities in your own setting, say. My primary concern is in giving the DM some guidelines rather than specifying everthing.


Of course, something I'm not quite sure how to fully consider is how being rarer could make knowledge of something [I]more common rather than less. I live in the real world where magic isn't an actual thing, but while I couldn't tell you how fast a flying broomstick or magic carpet is supposed to go, I can most definitely tell you what a Philosopher's Stone is capable of.

True, though I don't think that appraisal specifically would be easier if something was rare. (Guess how much the cheapest laptop I could find in the shop that sold them cost, and then guess how much a supercomputer costs)


Holy Hell I didn't even realize this was missing from the core rules. Good work man, this is definitely going to help keep gameplay a bit more consistent for my group.

Glad someone found some use out of it.