OOTS vs. 8-bit (battle thread!)

[Kurald Galain]

And just to give a different angle on the whole OOTS vs. 8-bit matter, let's have a battle thread! You know, those comic book battles where they pit Batman against Spiderman, stuff like that? The Twinkin' Out with Red Mage column used to do a lot of those.

Suppose the OOTS and the 8-bit group met face to face for combat. Who would win?

Interesting matchups would be the full six on six (assume the 8-bit team includes Black Belt and White Mage), or Team Evil (Xykon, Redcloak, MITD, Tsukiko) vs. either the Dark Warriors (Garland, Bikke, Drizz'l and Vilbert) or Xykon/Redcloak/MITD vs Lich, Kary and Ur.

Or pairings like:

Roy vs. Fighter
Vaarsuvius vs. Black Mage
Haley vs. Thief
Elan vs. Red Mage
Durkon vs. White Mage
Belkar vs. Black Belt (hey, he nearly beats up a monk in OOPC)
Miko vs. Evil Princess Sara
Shojo vs. King Steve
Xykon vs. Sarda


So who wins!

[PsyBlade]

It's been discussed. 8Bit outclasses OotS in combat. That said, I'd take my chances alongside OotS rather than 8Bit, OotS is more sane.

[Volug]

<-----he's armed with Febreze. lots and lots of Febreze

like Kurald Galain said.
8-bit beats every1 in combat. but redmage wins overall.

comic wise OOTS is ALOT better

[Artega]

Roy vs. Fighter
Fighter will win through sheer resistance to blows. Not to mention sword chucks.
Vaarsuvius vs. Black Mage
This one goes to our lovable sociopath, BM. Evan's Tentacle of Forced Intrusion has nothing on Hadoken.
Haley vs. Thief
Thief wins, by sheer legal confusion.
Elan vs. Red Mage
Neither are really that bright... but I'd probably have to say Elan. Red Mage doesn't seem to do anything.
Durkon vs. White Mage
Durkon. Durkon Durkon Durkon. Really, its hard to beat having Thor wtfpwnt you with lightning.
Belkar vs. Black Belt
All Belkar has to do is hide and Black Belt won't be able to find his way.

Don't feel like commenting beyond the "main six"

[Hyozo]

Hmm... Didn't I just see this thread? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53558)

That being said:

Roy vs. Fighter - Fighter, for the reasons that other guy mentioned.
Vaarsuvius vs. Black Mage - It all depends on who hits first, which means Black Mage wins unless he uses Hadoken.
Haley vs. Thief - It depends on how far away they are at the start of the fight. If Haley can get a few arrows into theif before he gets close enough to stab/punch/kick her, she wins.
Elan vs. Red Mage - Red Mage always starts out with his twisted logic before he starts fighting, Elan would fall for said logic and not fight. A fight that never begins has no winner
Durkon vs. White Mage - Hammer versus hammer, Thor's lightning versus holy fire, these two are hard to decide on. Armor versus robe isn't. Durkon wins simply because he has physical protection.
Belkar vs. Black Belt - Belkar doesn't even have to lift a finger. Blackbelt is dead and never coming back.
Miko vs. Evil Princess Sara - Evil Princess Sara would definately destroy Fallen Miko. Paladin Miko might stand a chance.
Shojo vs. King Steve - Shojo pretends to be not all there, Steve is. You might be surprised athow useful rational thinking can be.
Xykon vs. Sarda - Is Xykon omnipotent? I didn't think so.

[Gundato]

Like I said in the other thread, it really depends upon the situation.

Series of 1on1 battles will probably go to the Light Warriors due to sheer power (although, just how powerful the Light Warriors are is arguable. Assuming they are roughly level FF-40, that puts them around 3.5e-16, assuming FF-100 is approximately 3.5e-30 or 40. Judging by 8bt, this estimate looks accurate). But once you add in teamwork, it is a no-brainer for the OOTS to win (assuming they don't lose "because it is funny"):

Hadoken is great, but Vaarsuvius might very well counter-spell that. And when was the last time Black Mage actually used his Hadoken on an enemy? :p. Take away the Hadoken, and Black Mage is pretty much screwed.
The Law Ninjas are powerful, but it looks like Roy knows how to fight ninjas (he held off two ninjas capable of killing Hinjo).
Blackbelt (may he rest in pieces) and Fighter are hard hitters, but Vaarsuvius could at least slow them long enough for Elan to befriend/confound them.
Red Mage can really go either way, it depends upon exactly what he does. He would probably distract Elan, but Roy would probably get a circumstance bonus due to an urge to kill moronic things.
Durkon Vs White Mage: Seeing as how White Mage has no offensive spells, and Durkon IS a pretty damned good tank (especially if he buffs himself and the party), I give Durkon the point.
Thief (and Black Mage) both have sneak attack modifiers, but Durkon has healing spells.
Belkar is another wild card, but the sheer un-optimized nature of his build should take out Red Mage.
That leaves Thief unaccounted for, and by that time Haley has probably stolen one of Red Mage's Bags of Holding (as well as used her bow to help out against all the targets), which would incapacitate Thief.
Now, assuming Fighter and Blackbelt are still combat effective (and Black Mage and White Mage are down) that means a mighty force is on the field. But, by this time, the rest of the (Extended) Light Warriors are down. Roy, Belkar, and maybe even Durkon would probably go down, but eventually Vaarsuvius (or Haley) will take out the distracted targets.

[explanetpluto]

Roy-Fighter: Swordchucks, YO!
V-BM: V counterspells the Hadoken, and fries BM with various homebrew evocations.
Haley-Thief: Thief can throw anything, he wins.
Elan-RM: RM gives himself a character flaw: dislike of music, which gives him a bonus vs. Bards, he wins.
Durkon-WM: THOR'S MIGHT!, because it comes down to the size of the hammer.
Belkar-BB: BB loses because he's a FF Monk, and therefore dies as soon as he's hit. Plus Belkar is a Sexy Shoeless God of cooking War.

So we're left with V, Durkon and Belkar vs. Fighter, Thief, and RM. Belkar and Thief have a knife fight, Belkar has more knives, so he wins. V casts spells, but RM can mime, so they blow each other into nonexistence. Belkar can't hurt Fighter with knives, and Durkon doesn't have much damage ouput, so only Fighter lives.

Then Celia shows up and drops him off a cliff, because OOTS is a better comic.

[Tengu]

I agree with Gundato. Light Warriors are much stronger individually so they'd probably win any 1-on-1 battles with the OotS, but when it comes to group fighting, their lack of tactics, or competence, or common sense, or in some cases the desire not to kill each other puts the more organized Order in a winning position.

[Cubey]

Then Celia shows up and drops him off a cliff, because OOTS is a better comic.

Fighter would still survive that.

Anyway, since the main 4s of 8-bit have been more or less done already, I'll focus on the other options:

Durkon vs White Mage: White Mage only destroyed one creature, a low-level Creep. Aside from that, only thing she is capable of beating is the "plump and weak" Black Mage. Durkon wins.
Coincidentaly, it also shows why DnD clerics are rolling armageddons while FF White Mages are goodfernothin' (except healing) heal-bots.

Belkar vs Black Belt: Do you really think Belkar would have any trouble offing someone who not only didn't beat any creatures at all (the only fight in which BB was is the one with Kary, in which he DIED - unless I forgot something), but can get himself lost in a straight and short corridor?

Miko vs Sara: Evil Princess Sara, while being of course EVIL, has no combat skills or experience to anyone's knowledge. Miko wins by default. Besides, only person who Sara could boss over was Garland - not a very impressive feat.

Shojo vs King Steve: Smart guy who acts like an idiot or an idiot who thinks he's a smart guy? Shojo wins. He also has better underlings.

Xykon vs Sarda: As mentioned above, Sarda is omnipotent, and Xykon isn't.

[Tharr]

Because OOTS is drawn by someone who is constantly not well the battle is then made to award 8bit award beside WOTC killed OOTS in Dragon magazine hopeful the next digital type goes.

[Winterwind]

Roy vs. Fighter
Fighter is indestructible. He has survived a fall even greater than the one that killed Roy, has kept elemental fiends at bay, and is not impressed (for long) by knives to the head or other abusements. Roy stands no chance. Fighter wins.

Vaarsuvius vs. Black Mage
Black Mage can't hit the broad side of a mountain. He has the entire universe working against him. Also, he has virtually no hit points. Vaarsuvius wins.

Haley vs. Thief
There was a discussion in the 8-bit theatre comic itself who would win in a contest between a master archer and a guy who can throw anything. I think Ranger demonstrated very well who to bet on. Also, Haley has no reason whatsoever to respect Thief's obscure legal shenanigans. Haley wins.

Elan vs. Red Mage
Elan only recently got more or less useful. Red Mage, on the other hand, has fairly powerful magic at his disposal, and his plans, insane as they are, usually work out. There is a chance Red Mage goes for a needlessly complex scheme which backfires; but unless that happens, Red Mage wins.

Durkon vs. White Mage
Difficult to say. Durkon is competent, but White Mage has proven to be very good at fighting, too - better than at improving the world, definitely. If she has command over the universe, she wins hands down. If not, I can't really decide.

Belkar vs. Black Belt
Black Belt, while only a secondary character, is extremely well versed in combat. I don't think Belkar can match that. Black Belt wins.

Miko vs. Evil Princess Sara
Sara is evil. Miko smites evil. Even if we're talking about Fallen Miko, she still has determination and courage on her side. Sara so far has relied on intimidation only, which may work against 8bit Theatre characters, but wouldn't help her a bit against Miko, of all opponents. If Sara has time to prepare she might devise a trap or a scheme to outsmart Miko, but in a straight combat situation she wouldn't stand a chance. Miko wins.

Shojo vs. King Steve
An experienced, cunning aristocrate who pretends to be senile, against a character who is really insane way beyond anything senile might ever explain? That's an easy one. Shojo wins.

Xykon vs. Sarda
Powerful and entertaining as Xykon is, Sarda is the Wizard Who Did It. Xykon is trying to become all-powerful and in command of the world. Sarda already is. Sarda wins.

This gives two wins to the OotS and two to the Light Warriors. However, as I stated in the other thread in the Webcomics forum, these are individual considerations. In a team vs. team battle, the Light Warriors would screw themselves over so badly that the Order of the Stick would just need to stand by and finish off the remains. Fighter, for instance, would more likely go down to one of Black Mage's knives than an action from his opponents.

[Querzis]

Roy vs Fighter: If they really fight, well Fighter is invincible so he win but since Roy could just tell him to go jump in the lava (and fighter would do it) Roy win.

BM vs V: BM Hadoken...nothing is left of V. And even V strongest spell wouldnt do much more then piss off BM.

Belkar vs BB: Belkar, hell BB would be killed 20 times before he even see Belkar (and Belkar doesnt even have to hide, hes so small BB woudnt see him).

Durkon vs WM: Durkon wins, WM is just an healer.

RM vs Elan: Red Mage win as long as he actually cast spells instead of trying one of his stupid plans...but of course his plans could actually work on someone like Elan so yeah he win.

Thief vs Haley: They are more likely to just try to fraud each other and if they do I say they are pretty much evenly matched.

[K2]

Alright, here is how it goes down. All the combatants line up looking at each other ready to begin, the bell sounds and both Belkar and Black Mage jump into the center turn around and charge their respective side. After a long battle involving several different versions of hadoken(Dwarfken, fighterken(maybe two of those) and bardken) and numerous jumps to ridicules heights, our three winners now stand among a wreck of carnage. Blekar, Black Mage, and the unconscious White Mage celebrate their victory by looting bodies and getting what they always wanted.


That is, until they try to back stab each other.

[Solharath]

I've never actually considered this, actually, even after reading every *twitch* Comic each has to offer. So, I will make my guesses now.

Roy vs. Fighter - Now, everyone has seen the greatness of the swordchucks and the fact Fighter can almost never die. Actually, I'm almost sure he can't. Recent events show Roy dead, as well, but even Fighter may not survive the damage Roy took. Thinking it over, Roy is a calculating and experienced Swordsman, and Fighter just loves swinging his words around and is somehow not chopping off his own arms. But, even with all of Fighter's pluses, Roy's ancestral greatsword might help him overcome Fighter enough so that they are tied, and going further to the odd green energy that adds damage, he may pull off a victory.

((And lets not forget the booty talisman to help Roy out of a bad situation.))

V vs. BM - HADOKEN - Counter-spell. Through all the spells which may be exhausted over time, It narrows down to one important fact(Which, regretably, could have been done first as to save the special effects budget OotS is so well known for), BM uses Knives. A lot. V has no real weapon, and is stabbed to death by the mana-exhausted BM.

Haley vs Thief - Such a fun match. Two experts on thievery and extremely good at fighting. Thief would probably start with the Law Ninja's, which would get picked off - or just die right off hand(Law ninja's need food?). Haley just needs to keep her distance and shoot arrows, and wins thanks to her 50% miss chance, which helps her evade anything Thief may throw at her.

Elan vs. RM - Witty puns vs delerium. I really am not prepared to answer this, the two are so... evenly matched. But thanks to Elan's new Prestige class, he stands much more of a chance then he did before. I can only see the two becoming friends and refusing to fight each other, and RM converting to Banjoism, because of how much sense it makes to him. Does that mean Elan wins?

Durkon vs. WM - It's looking one sided for the OotS. As much as her Hammer and White Magic goes, I'm gonna have to hand this over To Durkon for the sole reasoning of THOR'S MIGHT.

Belkar vs. BB - A fight worths seeing if only BB could find Belkar, and get over the nasty fact that he's dead. But if he was alive, BB could beat the ever loving crap out of Belkar, and there is little the little Halfling can do about it, and being that it's BB, Grapple checks play a large part, and thanks again to Belkar's size... He's just screwed.

Miko vs. Evil Princess Sara - Evil Princess Sara has the ability to wield a sword better then Fighter, and has more power then the entire 8-bit cast. Miko died because of a measly explosion. Peh. EPSara FTW.

Shojo vs. King Steve - King Steve would probably let his left hand man take care of most the battle, (Being that its his, what, right hand?) Shojo is merely an NPC character. Shojo is aged, but he may know know just a bit about fighting to over power King Steve. But who knows, the good King Steve may invent the Cannonball or something.

Xykon vs. Sarda - Ah, the two great evils. But, I will cut this short, as Sarda has made the universe implode and restart at some point after making a way to have dinner ready before it was prepared. Although, MitD is always around somewhere near Xykon, and seeing it's power... With Help, Xykon, without, Sarda.

[Winterwind]

Just remember that the entire universe exists only to hurt Black Mage. Nothing good ever happens to him. So, whoever wins, whatever the pairings and affiliations, Black Mage will have to be scrapped of the ground.

Also, White Mage is the god of the 8-bit universe. She just hasn't realised this yet.
Even without this power though, she's not "just a healer". Whenever she whipped out that huge hammer, she has generally proven to be more competent in battle than the Light Warriors themselves.

[Hyozo]

Miko vs Sara: Evil Princess Sara, while being of course EVIL, has no combat skills or experience to anyone's knowledge. Miko wins by default. Besides, only person who Sara could boss over was Garland - not a very impressive feat.


Miko vs. Evil Princess Sara
Sara is evil. Miko smites evil. Even if we're talking about Fallen Miko, she still has determination and courage on her side. Sara so far has relied on intimidation only, which may work against 8bit Theatre characters, but wouldn't help her a bit against Miko, of all opponents. If Sara has time to prepare she might devise a trap or a scheme to outsmart Miko, but in a straight combat situation she wouldn't stand a chance. Miko wins.

It seems that both of you forgot about when Sara soloed the giant.

Also mentioned in the first post are Team Evil Vs. the Dark Warriors (Everybody knows how that would wind up) and Team Evil Vs. The Fiends. In the later, Xykon and lich would be evenly matched,Redcloak would be beaten by any of the fiends, and MitD would beat any of them (Assuming Xykon allowed it to, which he wouldn't).

[MReav]

The 8BT universe is a lot more powerful than OotS. They just are.

So, without further ado, here's my unwanted opinion:

* Roy vs. Fighter

Fighter. The amount of punishment he can take and the punishment he can dish out outshines Roy by order of magnitude.

* Vaarsuvius vs. Black Mage

Leaning toward Black Mage. I doubt V can counter 9th level spells very easily, especially in a world where they're the equivalent of Epic level spells. Black Mage can dish out a lot more damage than V can so if he can alpha strike V BM will win, though if V wins Initiative, and knows who V's fighting, V'll probably Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion and keep him from fighting back, unless BM can cast spells while grappled (remember, he's from a different game system, where they don't have rules for grappling), he's screwed.

* Haley vs. Thief

Thief. Maybe Haley can throw him for a few loops with counter-legalese, but he's way too sneaky and skilled (he stole armour off someone while the guy was wearing it. And that was in the early strips)

* Elan vs. Red Mage

Red Mage. The Right of Stat Swap will make him able to crank up his charisma, then he'll mimic Elan's Dashing Swordsman schtick.

Assuming he could come up with the plan. Then I might give it to Elan.

* Durkon vs. White Mage

Durkon.
Vow of Nonviolence for the lose!

* Belkar vs. Black Belt (hey, he nearly beats up a monk in OOPC)

I don't know... Belkar is pretty dangerous, but BB's beat people to death with their own limbs.

* Miko vs. Evil Princess Sara

Dunno. Evil Princess Sara's biggest display of combat prowess was kicking the crap out of the jolly green giant. Miko thrashed most of the Order of the Stick twice, took out the Ogre leader with a full attack, and took down Redcloak.

Still, EPS impressed Fighter. That's got to count for something.

Not making a call on lack of evidence.

* Shojo vs. King Steve

Shojo. King Steve only has his army to enforce his will, but if anything happened between the only two, Shojo actually has something to fall back on. I'd probably give it to Steve if we were talking about a military campaign, since they've got a larger army.

* Xykon vs. Sarda

Maybe when Xykon unleashes the Snarl, he'd have something to fall back on. Otherwise, Xykon is boned.

[Winterwind]

It seems that both of you forgot about when Sara soloed the giant. Yes, you're right. I completely forgot about that.
Also, Solharath wrote above Sara was more skilled with a sword than Fighter. I don't remember it either, but in that case she would beat Miko easily.


Also mentioned in the first post are Team Evil Vs. the Dark Warriors (Everybody knows how that would wind up) and Team Evil Vs. The Fiends. In the later, Xykon and lich would be evenly matched,Redcloak would be beaten by any of the fiends, and MitD would beat any of them (Assuming Xykon allowed it to, which he wouldn't).I agree with all of your assessments. That's exactly what would happen.
The Team Evil vs. Dark Warriors thing would be entertaining to watch though. If only to see what cruelties Xykon and Redcloak would come up with.


EDIT: Okay, since this comes up again and again, and for the sake of having a discussion instead of everybody just stating who (s)he believes would win, I have to ask: Where does the assumption that Haley would care about Thief's legalise come from? People in the 8bit Theatre universe do because they are idiots, all of them, but OotS characters are much smarter than this.

Also, why the assumption Black Mage could win against Vaarsuvius thanks to superior firepower? He pretty much never hits what he wants to hit, and besides, the very definition of his character is that he never succeeds at what he wants to.

[someonenonotyou]

fighter: roy has smarts fighter has sword chucks in a battle what really counts and he's been stabbed 47 times in a row and still lived so oh yeah

black mage: black mage would not stop untill his killed V would just blab on and on and on about how he will vanquishe BM then BM would Hadoken his/her ass

Haley: she would just shoot him theif dose not fight much just runs away

Red mage: he's better over all he'd use some magic and he could heal im self elan is only good for makeing funnies

Durkon:white mage cant fight that well all she dose is hit BM with her hammer

Belkar:BB IS FREAKEN DEAD HAHAHAHAHAHA he died(knock knock whose there ...not Black belt cause he's dead)

Miko:she a hot bad-ass padlin and eps is a evil princess Smite evil should do it

king steve: he inveted winning you know.

sarda: he in invisable he lived forever he can do any thing

[Solharath]

Yes, you're right. I completely forgot about that.
Also, somebody wrote above Sara was more skilled with a sword than Fighter. I don't remember it either, but in that case she would beat Miko easily.

That somebody is me. >_>

[The Black Cat]

Black Mage has more spells then just the Hadoken, and stabbity death. Off the top of my head, he has in his arsenal Bolt-3, Fire-3, Meteo (supersized), Flare, Feather Fall, Goblin Punch, and the ability to project his digestive track.

He also recently changed class to Blue Mage, giving him the ability to learn spells and techniques he survives, as a result of being a magical nexus given breath, blood, and bone.

However, his unlimited cosmic power is limited to smiting nameless NPCS, and fails in any battle of consequence, so Vaarsuvius would win by waiting for a tree to inexplicably fall on BM. Unless of course V was just making a cameo, in which case BM would cast a translocation spell in between V's blood and a vat of acid, causing the most intense pain imaginable while still keeping him alive.

But what do I know of Mages, eh what?

[Winterwind]

That somebody is me. >_>In that case, I shall give credit where credit is due, and apologise for my laziness of not looking it up in the first place. *edits original post*


However, his unlimited cosmic power is limited to smiting nameless NPCS, and fails in any battle of consequence, so Vaarsuvius would win by waiting for a tree to inexplicably fall on BM. Unless of course V was just making a cameo, in which case BM would cast a translocation spell in between V's blood and a vat of acid, causing the most intense pain imaginable while still keeping him alive.

But what do I know of Mages, eh what?Actually, I think this sums it up pretty well. BM should theoretically be able to beat Vaarsuvius, but practically he would end up beaten up and humiliated to no ends. As he always does.

[WarriorTribble]

BM vs. V... No idea who'll win but do we really want a potential universe where BM can cast Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intursion? Then again the first thing he'll probably do with that after the pain and humilation ends is target WM.

[SurlySeraph]

Roy vs. Fighter
Fighter is extremely powerful and borderline indestructible, but Roy knows how to think. Fighter has the advantage, but Roy could probably trick him into crippling himself or falling off a cliff, like when he fought the half-ogre with the spiked chain. Unfortunately, Roy's LG alignment means he probably wouldn't be aiming to kill or severely hurt someone so innocent as Fighter, meaning Fighter would probably just kill him while he held back.

Vaarsuvius vs. Black Mage
Vaarsuvius is intelligent and careful, but BM is just too powerful. Unless Vaarsuvius got lucky and hit BM with a damage spell right off the bat (as Fighter said of Black Mage "A push, or a strong breeze, will take him out" the elf would immediately be reduced to a crater.

Haley vs. Thief
Haley is a very good rogue. Thief stole more money that actually exists, can steal things from the future, thoughts from people's minds, and souls. Besides, he has Law Ninjas. Thief wins.

Elan vs. Red Mage
Red Mage is twinked to hell and back. Elan is a Bard. Poor Elan.

Durkon vs. White Mage
Durkon is more of a fighter, as said countless times before.

Belkar vs. Black Belt
I'd say Belkar, but only because we never got any real confirmation of Black Belt's fighting ability.

Miko vs. Evil Princess Sara
EPS is an unusually good fighter and highly intelligent, but Miko lives only to destroy evil things. Raging kung-fu smitebot, for the win.

Shojo vs. King Steve
Shojo knows how to think. He wins.

Xykon vs. Sarda
Sarda.

[explanetpluto]

Whenever she whipped out that huge hammer, she has generally proven to be more competent in battle than the Light Warriors themselves.

Elan is more competent than the Light Warriors.

[Winterwind]

Elan is more competent than the Light Warriors.Well, yes. The Light Warriors still have much more power at their disposal, which of course doesn't mean at all they would have an advantage in battle.
This is best visible in the character of Black Mage, who has so much power that he theoretically should be able to wipe out the OotS and Team Evil (the MitD excluded) at once. Even Xykon doesn't stand up to his firepower. However, I don't think Black Mage would stand a chance against Elan, much less any more powerful member of the OotS, simply for the fact that Black Mage never wins, per definition.

[Gaelbert]

Power alone would go to the Light Warriors. However, if the Oots had a chance to use their much higher common sense and intelligence, like in an ambush, then it would go to Oots. Remember, Black Mage can destroy the world in one or two spells. While V is impressive, she doesn't quite match up to that. Thief would definitely beat Haley. Thief can move and steal so fast that Haley wouldn't even have a chance to get an arrow in him.

[Vonriel]

You know, as someone once wondered why Haley would actually respect thief's "legal shenanigans" (too bad I'm too lazy to find the person who said that, that's gotta be one of the best phrases ever :smallbiggrin: ) I too wonder why people think Fighter would actually try and kill Roy. Fighter would probably be impressed with Roy's skill with a sword, and if that fails Roy would figure out Fighter's simplesingleminded fixation on swords and incapacitate Fighter by talking with him about the greatness of a sword.

Edit: And, yeah, what are you Haley supporters gonna do when it's found that Thief stole Haley's arrows before the battle took place? :smallwink:

[Dolash]

Sarda vs. Xykon might be easy to call, but what of...

Sarda vs. Snarl?

Attitude aside, they're basically opposites. Sarda is absolute control over the Universe, the Snarl is absolute discord and chaos. I'd give the Snarl the point because Sarda is so used to winning and so arrogant at this point that he'd probably not take the Snarl seriously until too late. The Snarl, on the other hand, acts fast and decisively.

A more appropriate match for Xykon in terms of story position is Garland. Which would last all of ten seconds. I can imagine the dark elf dude having a fair bit in common with Redcloak though.

[Vonriel]

You know, I have to point out the irony of using an adjective like decisively when talking about ultimate chaos..

[Dolash]

That's true. Perhaps "without hesitation or distraction" would better convey my point, being that as an egoless entity the Snarl doesn't need to amuse itself with petty plots or monologues.

[Vonriel]

I would use instinctually, or reflexively, or something to relate to base instinct rather than something relating to thought.

[Klev]

Belkar vs. Black Belt
I'd say Belkar, but only because we never got any real confirmation of Black Belt's fighting ability.

Well Black Belt defeated Garland single handled (ok I know is Garland...), and made killed two Ninjas with their own limbs...

Well my ideas:

Roy vs. Fighter
Fighter is almost invicible, he doesnt drow, suffer from larger damages, fire or slashes! And if Roy tries use his wits against Fighter, wellFighter was his powerfull Int drain speech! So I say Fighter

Vaarsuvius vs. Black Mage
Well Black Mage first move will always be hadoken if he hits (which I find hard) he wins by sheer damage against low HP. If he misses is time for Vaarsuvius to finish is punny HP. Vaarsuvius will always win if he/she wins iniciative, while BM will depend on his aim (which sucks). So I give to Vaarsuvius most of the time.

Haley vs. Thief
Well I like Haley, but she suffered to kill some Hobgoblins, so really anything face-to-face is dead for her. Since Thief became a Ninja he seemed to dodge everything and sneak everything, so arrows form far is out of question. So no chance for Haley, Thief will win every time.

Elan vs. Red Mage
Well they are both fools in the own way. But Red Mage will prevail simply because he is actually a Min/Max against the....well being Bard of Elan.
Unless his own plans hits his face Red Mage

Durkon vs. White Mage
Durkon easy, White Mage only shows power against Black Mage. Durkon will hammer her to the win!

Belkar vs. Black Belt
Well like I said before, every time he hitted Black Belt got out with blood on his hands (and on his on word "Don't worry it isn't mine"). If he was alive he would kick,punch Belkar to dead...literally, and if he did get lost trying to find Belkar chances are that Belkar would have to face more then one BB anyway, thanks to his time-space altering powers.

Miko vs. Evil Princess Sara
Can't say, is hard to measure Sara strenght, she seemed to kill the giant with a blink, but besides that no more facts. She could be a lot stronger than Fighter with would make her more then an opponent that Miko can handle.

Shojo vs. King Steve
Shojo simply because he pretends to be insane...while King Steve...

Xykon vs. Sarda
You are joking right ? Anyone against the Wizard that did... how is that a contest?

[lokycat]

Comparing the 2 in anything is completely insane.:smallconfused:

Compare 8-Bit to Penny Arcade, stop comparing them with good works of art like OOTS. 8-Bit is like Elan used to be(in the first 100 comics), nothing but comedic relief, OOTS is in no way comparable to 8-Bit.

With that said.:smallbiggrin:

Roy vs Fighter
If they really fight, well Fighter is invincible.But sins Fighter is stupid and Roy is one smart guy, Roy could just tell him to go jump in the lava (and fighter would do it) Roy win.:smallamused:

V vs. BM
HADOKEN!!! V.s. Counter-spell!!! BM uses Knives. A lot. V has no real weapon, and is stabbed to death by the mana-exhausted BM OR V just runs or fly away wen she runs out of spells. :smallannoyed:

Elan vs. Red Mage
Witty puns vs delirium. I really am not prepared to answer this, the two are so... evenly matched. But thanks to Elan's new Prestige class, he stands much more of a chance then he did before. I can only see the two becoming friends and refusing to fight each other, and RM converting to Banjoism, because of how much sense it makes to him. Does that mean Elan wins?:smallbiggrin:

Durkon vs. WM
As much as White Mage Hammer's hurt and White Magic heals, I'm gonna have to hand this over To Durkon for the reasoning of the spells that are available to a cleric and the armor witch would be like Fighter's armor. WM trys to bash Durkon with hammer *tink*:smalleek:, COMMAND(SIT), THOR'S MIGHT!!!, WM slushy, bits everywhere.:smallamused:

Belkar V.s. Thief or BB
Belkar wins....enuf said.:smallyuk:

Haley V.s Thief
Hmmm...depends on the environment.:smallconfused:

[Axl_Rose]

G'day mates, so I started reading up 8bit, it's pretty good but sometimes the pixelated images start hurting my eyes lol. And I've only spent about 5 minuets reading it but they really seem to rip off the Simpsons a lot; like the scene where the mage kills the old men: "it was the style back then" or the wiseass shopkeeper.

[Klev]

G'day mates, so I started reading up 8bit, it's pretty good but sometimes the pixelated images start hurting my eyes lol. And I've only spent about 5 minuets reading it but they really seem to rip off the Simpsons a lot; like the scene where the mage kills the old men: "it was the style back then" or the wiseass shopkeeper.

A little off topic but you rant made me lol a little, there is a comic where Bryan makes an MTS3k cameo, and the robos make the exact same comment as you did.

[Duke Malagigi]

I'll just do two of the combatants, okay.

White Mage vs. Durkon I don't think the fight would last very long. Durkon would realize that White Mage is a good person, inspite of the sociopaths she's been duped into thinking are the Light Warriors. Durkon would sit White Mage down, tell her how much of good lass she is and then have a nice chat with her. Then they'd join forces to beat up Black Mage. Draw, they wouldn't fight each other.

Sarda vs. Xykon Sarda is an all powerful pompous, arrogant jackass off a wizard with no respect for sentient life or dignity who just happens to be all powerful. Xykon is a psychopathic, murderous, Yahtze playing, pompous, arrogant jackass of a sorcerer who desires to be all powerful. Besides, Sarda is the kind of wizard who would mess around with the Snarl out of boredom. They might get all along pretty well. God help us all. Draw, see White Mage vs. Durkon but worse.

[Axl_Rose]

there is a comic where Bryan makes an MTS3k cameo, and the robos make the exact same comment as you did.
Mate I didn't intend to rant, I don't know who Bryan is, I don't know what MTS3k is, and I don't know what robos you're talkin about lol.

[Kurald Galain]

Hmm... Didn't I just see this thread? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53558)
Wow, I didn't realize that. I never read that forum, actually.


(the only fight in which BB was is the one with Kary, in which he DIED - unless I forgot something),
No, BB also totally failed to defeat some plantal splorchy horror creature.


Miko vs Sara: Evil Princess Sara, while being of course EVIL, has no combat skills or experience to anyone's knowledge.
Er, yes, she does. (http://nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=020603) Which is why I asked :smallbiggrin:


I'd probably give it to Steve if we were talking about a military campaign, since they've got a larger army.
Well, they do now after the goblin invasion. Still, I wouldn't put it past Steve to send his army into the ocean without a boat. To defeat the dolphins, or something.


Black Mage has more spells then just the Hadoken, and stabbity death. Off the top of my head, he has in his arsenal Bolt-3, Fire-3, Meteo (supersized), Flare, Feather Fall, Goblin Punch,
Hm, not that he would, but BM could find out one thing about V by goblin punching that many people are highly curious about!




I don't think we actually know that Sarda is omnipotent, except by him saying so (and White Mage believes him). We do know he's a powerful and arrogant bastard. Either way, I do easily see him taking out Xykon, as he's more cunning.
Xykon: Don't worry, this won't hurt. Much. Meteor Swarm!
Sarda: No, I think it will. (snaps a finger and switches places with Xykon)
Xykon: Aw crap! (BOOM!)


I think that if Thief were to summon his law ninjas, Roy would summon Celia the paralegal. She has a 100% track record in winning court cases, after all. Roy wins.


Actually a more fitting match for the Dark Warriors would be the Linear Guild...
Nale vs. Garland would be over very quickly, as Nale has shown way more intelligence and fighting ability.
Thog vs. Drizz'l would be an interesting match, although Drizz'l probably wins that one on account of sneakiness.
Sabine vs. Vilbert? We have a wannabe vampire vs. an actual demon. Or devil. That's no contest.
Bikke's an idiot and will defeat himself. LG wins! You can tell a lot about your heroes by looking at their enemies :smallwink:

[Alfryd]

Oh, for heavens' sake, not another Versus thread. Wasn't there some kind of moderator crackdown on these a while back? I dunno. I'll take 'sour apathy', for 300.

[battleburn]

Vaarsuvius vs. Black Mage
This one goes to our lovable sociopath, BM. Evan's Tentacle of Forced Intrusion has nothing on Hadoken.I really hope Vaarsuvius doesn't use Evan's spiked tentacles of forced intrusion on Black mage. With his blue magic, think of the gruesome uses he would be able to find for it. It would be worse then letting Belkar use that spell.

[OOTS_Rules.]

The light warriors would all become friends. Roy and Black Belt's rotting corpses would both be buried next to each other, Elan and Fighter would have a discussion about music and swords, Haley and Theif would have a battle of the minds, Belkar and Black Mage would share stabbing techniques, Vaarsuvius and Red Mage would discuss their exploits into gender, and Durkon would comfort White Mage about Black Belt's failed ressurection.

[Winterwind]

You know, as someone once wondered why Haley would actually respect thief's "legal shenanigans" (too bad I'm too lazy to find the person who said that, that's gotta be one of the best phrases ever :smallbiggrin: ) I too wonder why people think Fighter would actually try and kill Roy. Fighter would probably be impressed with Roy's skill with a sword, and if that fails Roy would figure out Fighter's simplesingleminded fixation on swords and incapacitate Fighter by talking with him about the greatness of a sword.That would have been me. And I am surprised myself I remembered there was a word like "shenanigans" in English. :smallbiggrin:
Anyway, you're probably right about Roy vs. Fighter.
Not to mention they wouldn't have much reason to fight, since both are Good (Fighter is just too easily guided to do evil things by his not-quite-so-good companions).


Edit: And, yeah, what are you Haley supporters gonna do when it's found that Thief stole Haley's arrows before the battle took place? :smallwink:Well, yeah, this could happen. Okay, I concede my assessment of Haley defeating Thief was probably a bit rash; Thief's supreme stealing skills would probably turn the battle - provided he stays to fight, instead of tossing his allies into the OotS and running away.
However, my point that BM wouldn't have a chance against no matter whom he would have to fight still stands.


Sarda vs. Xykon might be easy to call, but what of...

Sarda vs. Snarl?

Attitude aside, they're basically opposites. Sarda is absolute control over the Universe, the Snarl is absolute discord and chaos. I'd give the Snarl the point because Sarda is so used to winning and so arrogant at this point that he'd probably not take the Snarl seriously until too late. The Snarl, on the other hand, acts fast and decisively.This could be interesting indeed. I wonder whether Sarda counts as a deity. He sure has the power of one, but he might not be one, technically speaking. If he is, I bet on the Snarl. Otherwise, I think Sarda would have the upper hand.


A more appropriate match for Xykon in terms of story position is Garland. Which would last all of ten seconds.Of which nine and a half are spent with talking. This would be pityful. Very funny, though. :smallbiggrin:

I can imagine the dark elf dude having a fair bit in common with Redcloak though.Drizz'l is the only remotely competent Dark Warrior (okay, Garland has demonstrated some skills as summoner, but Drizz'l is the only one who has something resembling common sense. At least more than the others.), but he wouldn't stand a chance against Redcloak.
The Dark Warriors are just not playing in the same league as Team Evil.
Now, the Dark Warriors against the Linear Guild might be a closer match.


I really hope Vaarsuvius doesn't use Evan's spiked tentacles of forced intrusion on Black mage. With his blue magic, think of the gruesome uses he would be able to find for it. It would be worse then letting Belkar use that spell.Nah, it would just backfire somehow on BM whenever he tried to use it. I don't know how or why, but it would, that's certain.

[SKarious]

so, How about BM vs the MiTD?

[Winterwind]

so, How about BM vs the MiTD?Going by raw force, it would be interesting. The Hadoken was powerful enough to exterminate the dinosaurs. Would the MitD be strong enough to survive that? So far, it's power was without limits, but this is a wholly new league.
I think I'd actually bet on Black Mage.

Going by what really would happen, it's the easiest fight ever. Black Mage always ends up maimed and humiliated; going against something this powerful he'd end up just even more maimed and humiliated than usually.
The MitD would win without even realising what it was doing.

[MReav]

Well, they do now after the goblin invasion. Still, I wouldn't put it past Steve to send his army into the ocean without a boat. To defeat the dolphins, or something.

Even before, the Waroween comic implied Corneria has 30'000 troops to send out to sack and pillage their neighbours.


I don't think we actually know that Sarda is omnipotent, except by him saying so (and White Mage believes him). We do know he's a powerful and arrogant bastard. Either way, I do easily see him taking out Xykon, as he's more cunning.

If he's not omnipotent, he's pretty freaking close. He's gone so far as to rewrite history to have Black Mage volunteer to be punished and destroy an alternate timeline because he wanted to eat a sandwich without having to prepare it first, but screwed up.


I think that if Thief were to summon his law ninjas, Roy would summon Celia the paralegal. She has a 100% track record in winning court cases, after all. Roy wins.

Hasn't she only won once? That's hardly substantial.


Actually a more fitting match for the Dark Warriors would be the Linear Guild...
Nale vs. Garland would be over very quickly, as Nale has shown way more intelligence and fighting ability.

Yeah, I agree.


Thog vs. Drizz'l would be an interesting match, although Drizz'l probably wins that one on account of sneakiness.

I dunno. When has he ever demonstrated sneakiness? And I personally think that he's not that competent. He's a small fish in a tiny pool. Still, if he can get some swords again, he can beat Thog easily with skill.


Sabine vs. Vilbert? We have a wannabe vampire vs. an actual demon. Or devil. That's no contest.

He's not a wannabe, he's an actual vampire. The fact that he larps one is irrelevant. Sabine would win because she's competent, but she'd probably need to withdraw the first time to find out just how to kill him.


Bikke's an idiot and will defeat himself.

No question.

[yoshi927]

so, How about BM vs the MiTD?Think about it. Even if BM loses, he wins.

That may SOUND like a paradox, but Dr. Darkopolis or whatever we call him won't let him die, and BM would absorb the MiTD's attacks and be able to use them. Same thing with V, actually. I don't want to know what BM would do once he knew Evan's Spiked Tentacles. :smallbiggrin:

[Sk38]

Well, since I haven't seen it mentioned here yet I figured I'd say it - For all of you saying how Black Belt is dead so he cant fight Belkar, you seem to have conveniently forgotten that Roy is dead too.

And for the record, Thief would beat Haley. I like both characters, but come on, Thief can basically do anything. He'd kill her before the fight even started.

[lokycat]

While I enjoy Eight Bit Theatre greatly, in my opinion it doesn't hold a candle to The Order of the Stick. Its plot is much weaker, the characters have much less personality, being mostly reduced to their respective stereotypes, and the biggest problem: it is awfully repetitive. By now, everybody has understood that, yes, Black Mage indeed is evil, the Light Warriors are dysfunctional, and the Universe exists only to hurt Black Mage. Also, given the rant Brian has given in one of his essays, about how characters in comics are supposed to change, I wonder why he doesn't follow his own advise. From the beginning of the comic, the personalities of the Light Warriors, as shallow as they are, haven't changed a bit yet. Sure, Fighter got his sword-chucks, they all got a class change. But those are new powers, not character development. The closest thing to character development so far was Red Mage realising that casting spells did not decrease his versatility, and that was many strips ago.
It's also a personal preference: I take plot and story over comedy anytime.

Huh. That sounds much more negative than I intended it to. Unlikely as it may seem after such a rant, I do enjoy Eight Bit Theatre, and it's actually amongst my favorite comics, though far behind OotS, Erfworld and Goblins.

Reading over 50 webcomics... I'd have to say I'm a decent judge of them.

Comparing 8-bit to OotS is a joke, if you ask me.

8-Bit has been doing almost the exact same jokes for the entire length of their comic. The characters are shallow, and never-changing, and the humor is fading. It's like Garfield almost, at this point.

OotS is more dynamic, the characters develop, and the jokes do too. It's still funny, and yet at the sime time is also a very entertaining story..

As an afterthought, I'd like to note OotS is in my top five. (After Inverloch, Misfile, and Questionable Content, and before Fanboys)


As for the main comparison (OOTS and 8-Bit), I have to say that OoTS trumps 8-bit in every single way. While I still like 8-Bit, I think it's definantily jumped the shark recently with their quest to get the Orb of Air as, really, literally nothing has happened. While I find it funny, I find OoTS funnier, and a much better strip all told.


:amused: :biggrin: :amused:

[Roderick_BR]

Let me try it:
Roy vs. Fighter: Roy is way smarter than Fighter, and probably a better Power Attacker, and some good builds but Fighter is stupid enough to don't notice he's losing... and he uses TWF rules that doesn't suck. Fighter have a big chance of winning.

Vaarsuvius vs. Black Mage: BM has only one good big attack. If V can dispell it, BM is screwed. V has a lot more useful and powerful spells than BM. Victory for V, unless BM can shot him first.

Haley vs. Thief: They'd get into a competition of who is the better thief. And Thief is a lot more mean than Haley, while Haley has a conscience. Thief would win... but then Haley gets pissed off and beats him with her SNEAK ATTACK! (Thief rarely fights at all)

Elan vs. Red Mage: Lock them inside a room, and forget them. They'll probably get great buddies.

Durkon vs. White Mage: Another hard one. They wouldn't fight, but compare scriptures and religions, and how to keep the party whole. If they were to fight, D&D clerics are more combat prone than FF White Mages. Durkon wins hands down.

Belkar vs. Black Belt (hey, he nearly beats up a monk in OOPC): If BB doesn't gey lost, Belkar can stab him... over and over and over... (he's that dense) until one of them get bored or tired.

Miko vs. Evil Princess Sara: Detect Evil! Smite Evil! Miko would attack EPS before she even says anything. If it's Fallen Miko, she'll ignore anything Sara says, and will proceed to beat the crap out of her anyway.

Shojo vs. King Steve: Shojo is better than manipulating heroes into doing his biddins. Shojo should be compared to Evil Princes Sara, instead, and her ability to manipulate wanabe villains.

Xykon vs. Sarda: Sarda is an epic munchkin. Nuff said.

So, OotS 5, 8BitTheater 2. I'd say, OotS wins.

[Kreistor]

Black Mage vs. Vaarsuvius

Counterspelling is not 100% reliable, unless you are using the same spell to counter with, and V doesn't have Hadoken. Assuming these two are equal character level, V has only a 50% chance of stopping Hadoken with Greater Dispel Magic. So, 50% of the time, BM vaporizes V. If V has Imp Counterspell, V would need an equal level Evocation to counter with, and I'm not certain what level Hadoken would count at in DnD terms, since it annihilates volcanoes. It may also count as a Supernatural Ability, which cannot be countered. (Even if merely spell-like, it would not be subject to countering.)

After that, it comes down to other spells. We do not know the volume of spells BM actually possesses, so we can't know if one will run out before the other, but there are two very large factors in BM's favour.

1) BM's knives
BM regularly kills or at least incapacitates Fighter with his knives. He is highly skilled in this matter. V has no inherent protection against this kind of attack.

2) BM's special ability
BM has a special ability? Uhm, yeah, although it has been completely unimplemented. When the characters went through the model change back, (what 200 strips ago?), BM gained a new type of magic. Any ability that attacks him but he survives, he learns. Thus, anything that V throws at BM that doesn't kill him, BM now possesses to throw back at V.

BM is, in the end, a raw offensive power engine. All he can do is destroy things. V, on the other hand, unless aware that BM will be an opponent that day, memorizes other, non-evocation spells for adventuring purposes. This suggests to me that head-to-head, V will run out before BM, and will suffer with some useless spells eating into V's selection. That is the fundamental weakness of the Wizard class in DnD: unless you know what oyu will be fighting the next day, your spell selection is ultimately random in relation to the actual situations you will encounter. It is inappropriate to assume V will have the correct loadout to face BM. BM, on the other hand, is a one trick wonder: he murders people in spectacular ways. One on one, BM's spells will always be on point for a fight, simply because he is always on point for a fight.

[Winterwind]

Counterspelling is not 100% reliable, unless you are using the same spell to counter with, and V doesn't have Hadoken. Assuming these two are equal character level, V has only a 50% chance of stopping Hadoken with Greater Dispel Magic. So, 50% of the time, BM vaporizes V.You mean, like this?: http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040617
Or, like this?: http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=050901
Or maybe more like this?: http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=060121

Honestly, Vaarsuvius doesn't need to worry about the Hadoken, and little about BM's other magic either.

Besides, when was the last time you saw anything go BM's way? Even the long-expected class change ultimately gave him powers he hates himself, and an outfit that makes other people respect him even less than before. Black Mage has so incredible amounts of bad karma that the only person, besides the dwarves, whom he is able to defeat is that little orphan he keeps tormenting, and I'm almost certain this is only because we will yet get a comic which reveals this orphan is going to be transported into the past somehow to sign up at a black magic academy. Just see how much of the jokes in the 8bit-Theatre strips are about Black Mage suffering. One third of them? Half? Maybe more?

Incidentally,

Think about it. Even if BM loses, he wins.

That may SOUND like a paradox, but Dr. Darkopolis or whatever we call him won't let him die, and BM would absorb the MiTD's attacks and be able to use them. Same thing with V, actually. I don't want to know what BM would do once he knew Evan's Spiked Tentacles. :smallbiggrin:I don't want to know what BM would do once he knew this spell, either. What he would do to himself, that is. Because, that's one for sure, Brian would never resist having such a spell and not hitting BM repeatedly with it. So I suppose all enemies he would try to use this spell against would have some kind of reflective armour or other means to redirect the spell against him. Ultimately, all we would get would be a violated Black Mage.

So, to all people who keep saying BM would stand even the slightest chance, I'd really like to hear how you want to reconsile this with Black Mage's habit of having everything he does come back to him to smack him even harder.

[BisectedBrioche]

Roy vs. Fighter - Red warrior vs blue warrior, heh. Fighter is virtually unkillable (even when the drownball champion tries) and his swordchucks certainly give him an edge (pun unintended). The strait man loses to the idiot. Fighter Wins.
Vaarsuvius vs. Black Mage - BM has more powerful spells but V has more spells overall. On the other hand being a CRPG character BM can simply use an ether or two and restore his MP. If they both run out of spells/MP then I'd say BM has the edge in melee. Draw, slightly in favour of BM (though the universe does hate him so....).
Haley vs. Thief - Both are excellent melee fighters so in that cas it could go either way. I personally would put more confidence in Thief's stealing skills (I've yet to see Haley steal things that aren't even there or vital parts of an enemy's anatomy yet ¬_¬). Both seem to be experts at forgery but as Thief deals with less intelligent people I'd put my money on Haley. As a tie breaker, however, Thief has managed to save his father and Haley has not, giving the later a weakness the former can exploit. Thief Wins.
Elan vs. Red Mage - In melee combat Elan's got an advantage ("I see that you've red all the books), as far as magic's concerned Elan's illusions probably can't match the ability of RM to encase him in a block of ice. In the end I would say that RM's knowledge of D&D rules would outweigh Elan's limited intellect, but he could fail because of his own madcap plans. Draw.
Durkon vs. White Mage - WM has been shown to use some offensive magic and she can wield her hammer (which could send Durkon flying) effectively but she has fewer hit points. Durkon wins, although they may well not fight being fairly sensible and peaceful.
Belkar vs. Black Belt - Belkar could gain an advantage by hiding from BB and letting him get lost. This could backfire if he ends up allowing BB to clone himself or otherwise perform one of his reality bending feats of course. Regardless BBs stupidity would probably allow Belkar to win before he's "too broken to move". Belkar Wins.
Miko vs. Evil Princess Sara - EPS hasn't shown any real combat skills. Miko wins.
Shojo vs. King Steve - Steve is insane and hasn't shown any combat skills what-so-ever (he could surprise us though ¬_¬). Shojo Wins.
Xykon vs. Sarda - Sarda can hold someone completely still in the universe (and make them live) Xykon's most powerful skill is instant death (which doesn't always work). Draw (Sarda would most likely find a way to kill Xykon three times before the battle even begins).



Black Mage has so incredible amounts of bad karma that the only person, besides the dwarfs, whom he is able to defeat is that little orphan he keeps tormenting, and I'm almost certain this is only because we will yet get a comic which reveals this orphan is going to be transported into the past somehow to sign up at a black magic academy. Just see how much of the jokes in the 8bit-Theatre strips are about Black Mage suffering. One third of them? Half? Maybe more?

You overlooked a few of BM's victims

3 giant sea monsters (on his own, all at once)
Infinite amounts of town guards (and random citizens of course)
WM's hope
A personification of his evil (i.e. himself)
At least some of his own family

[doliemaster]

On the actually comic merit thing, I think 8bit and OOTS are equally good, neither is better or worse than the other. I love both, think both are dynamic and funny and both have bad points, OOTS is on a plot arc, where it has become less funny and more plotty, while 8bit is feeling a bit of repetivness[sp?] probably coming from length. They are both equal on my spectrum. Thats all I had to say.:smallsmile:

[Winterwind]

You overlooked a few of BM's victimsThat's true; I actually wanted to write "whom he is able to consistently defeat" before.
Still, let's look at these examples:

3 giant sea monsters (on his own, all at once)Which left him completely wasted, with none of his fellow Light Warriors believing him, instead mocking him, which he couldn't even refute due to being so exhausted. So, while he defeated the monsters, it ended in his humiliation.

WM's hopeWhich was rebuilt by Fighter. BM can have short-lived victories, but only so that it hurts even more when they are taken away from him.

A personification of his evil (i.e. himself)Which led to him gaining absolution from his sins. I'll leave it to you which of the following counts as being screwed, but I am sure at least one of them does:
- becoming pure against his will
- becoming stained with evil again due to past machinations
- having to commit an atrocity to regain full "evil-ness", which leads to Thief blackmailing him (not saying Thief wouldn't have found some other reason to blackmail him otherwise, but as it happened, this was it)

Which leaves only


Infinite amounts of town guards (and random citizens of course)
At least some of his own family
Those, I guess, he really defeated. Note, however, how nameless citizens in the 8bit Theatre exist only to be hurt by anybody - it happens all the time.
Still, I think that's somewhat pathetic. Now, if you look at the list of all instances of the universe devastating Black Mage, I think it will be somewhat longer. Actually, the list of his victories which were turned against him alone already is.

[Fighteer]

Light Warriors vs. Order of the Stick

Roy vs. Fighter - Roy befriends Fighter, since they both like swords. On learning how much of an idiot Fighter is, Roy could incapacitate him with a simple mental puzzle. On the other hand, Fighter could probably turn Roy into a twitching mass of bruised brain cells with his intelligence-draining conversation attack. Should Fighter actually fight Roy, he'd wipe the floor with him, but I don't see this ever happening.
Haley vs. Thief - Thief is inarguably a more powerful character. Haley doesn't stand a chance in a straight-up fight, but again, these two characters would probably end up swapping tales of their thievery and trying to out-swindle each other. Thief would still win, but he has no reason to kill Haley; dead people can't honor their contracts to pay Thief 110% of their earnings into perpetuity.
Vaarsuvius vs. Black Mage - BM can slaughter his way through endless NPCs, cheerfully obliterate whole cities, take over Hell, turn reality inside out, but he just... can't... win. Of course, he can't die either, so this turns into some kind of cosmic stalemate, kind of like the joke about the cat with a buttered slice of bread taped to its back. V is hardly even relevant to the fight; he could just go away and let BM defeat himself.
Durkon vs. White Mage - There's no conceivable reason why these two characters would ever fight each other, although there does exist the possibility of some hot cleric-on-cleric action (making BM even more jealous).
Belkar vs. Black Belt - One's a sociopath and the other is pathologically stupid. Again, BB is so good at defeating himself that Belkar could simply stand around and watch, despite the fact that on the basis of power alone, BB should wipe the floor with him.
Elan vs. Red Mage - I don't see a fight here. However, RM is holding all the cards, psychologically speaking. All he has to do is start an endless analysis of Elan's poor build and he'll reduce him to a quivering mass of helpless tears in no time. Then he'll switch to his Deborah role and the two can have sweet make-up... wait, never mind.


Linear Guild vs. The Dark Warriors

Nale vs. Garland - Garland invites Nale to tea, but the poisoned biscuits turn out to be flavored with licorice instead because he just couldn't bring himself to be that mean. Meanwhile, Nale simply stabs him in the back.
Sabine vs. Vilbert - Vilbert cannot die, yet he's also utterly ineffective in combat. Sabine eventually gives up and plane shifts home, and Vilbert sinks deeper into angst.
Thog vs. Drizz'l - The Dark Elf is obviously smarter, but without any weapons simply dies to Thog's brute force attack.
Anyone vs. Bikke - The dread pirate is incapable of winning any fight, so this is no contest.


It seems like in every case here, the 8BT characters are both more powerful and stunningly more incompetent than their OotS counterparts. It's not that I don't see a clear victory; it's more that their respective karmas are utterly incompatible.

[Kurald Galain]

I'm not certain what level Hadoken would count at in DnD terms, since it annihilates volcanoes.
According to Red Mage, "Unda Pugneus" is an evocation spell (with a range of several million miles...) I seem to recall BM mentioning early in the strip that it's ninth level. V can't cast ninth levels yet.

Also, I just realized that BM has sufficient hit points to survive an Australia to the face. Oh, and he recently massacred the Ur cultists all by himself. Odds go to BM, although it'll be some kind of pyrrhic victory.

[Tmabbbb]

Roy vs. Fighter: No question at all. Anybody can beat a dead person.
Vaarsuvius vs. Black Mage: Very tough, but I'll say V, simply because BM can only cast one Hadoken per day, and, as mentioned before, BM can't even hit a mountain. (It is important to note here that I have only read the first few hundred 8-Bit Theatre comics, so I'm unaware of the full potential of those characters.)
Haley vs. Thief: I'll go with Haley, because Thief seems like he can only steal, not fight very well.
Elan vs. Red Mage: I'll say Elan, because Dashing Swordsman gives him 18 Strength, and Red Mage refuses to use spells because it would make him slightly less powerful.
Durkon vs. White Mage: I'd got with Durkon, because he is good at melee as well as offensive and defensive magic. White Mage is only good at healing and hitting Black Mage.
Belkar vs. Black Belt: No question at all. Anybody can beat a dead person.
Miko vs. Sara: I'm leaning towards Miko because she is high level and powerful, even when she is fallen.
Shojo vs. King Steve: Shojo. I don't even think it needs an explanation.
Xykon vs. Sarda: Sarda. The reasons have been mentioned before.

[Winterwind]

Fighteer: Complete agreement with everything you said, though I would consider Bikke to be Thog's equivalent, rather than Drizz'l. Of course, Thog would crush the pirate easily.

According to Red Mage, "Unda Pugneus" is an evocation spell (with a range of several million miles...) I seem to recall BM mentioning early in the strip that it's ninth level. V can't cast ninth levels yet.I always considered this more of a special ability, since at the beginning of the comic he can hardly cast anything else and can't come up with a solution when confronted with enemies (giant, werewolves, some unidentified creeps) a real high-level wizard would likely have little trouble defeating somehow.

Also, I just realized that BM has sufficient hit points to survive an Australia to the face. Oh, and he recently massacred the Ur cultists all by himself. Odds go to BM, although it'll be some kind of pyrrhic victory.I'd rather say I'd rather say he has sufficient spite to stay alive no matter how badly he gets maimed. Or it's a "Oh, the pain, why can't I die?!" thing. :smallbiggrin:

Still, I agree - I can see him defeating V somehow, but in a way which leaves him humiliated and wounded nevertheless. That's a possibility I didn't account for.


Haley vs. Thief: I'll go with Haley, because Thief seems like he can only steal, not fight very well. Since his Class Change he can, he just usually chooses not to. Also, he can steal secrets out of people's minds, or things out of the future; so he's not to be underestimated.

Elan vs. Red Mage: I'll say Elan, because Dashing Swordsman gives him 18 Strength, and Red Mage refuses to use spells because it would make him slightly less powerful.Red Mage has stopped refusing to use spells hundreds of strips ago; also, his insane plans work more often than not now.

Other than those, I agree with you.

[Seraph]

Miko vs Sara: Evil Princess Sara, while being of course EVIL, has no combat skills or experience to anyone's knowledge. Miko wins by default. Besides, only person who Sara could boss over was Garland - not a very impressive feat.

yeeeeeaaaahhhhhno. (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=020603)

[yoshi927]

Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
While I enjoy Eight Bit Theatre greatly, in my opinion it doesn't hold a candle to The Order of the Stick. Its plot is much weaker, the characters have much less personality, being mostly reduced to their respective stereotypes, and the biggest problem: it is awfully repetitive. By now, everybody has understood that, yes, Black Mage indeed is evil, the Light Warriors are dysfunctional, and the Universe exists only to hurt Black Mage. Also, given the rant Brian has given in one of his essays, about how characters in comics are supposed to change, I wonder why he doesn't follow his own advise. From the beginning of the comic, the personalities of the Light Warriors, as shallow as they are, haven't changed a bit yet. Sure, Fighter got his sword-chucks, they all got a class change. But those are new powers, not character development. The closest thing to character development so far was Red Mage realising that casting spells did not decrease his versatility, and that was many strips ago.
It's also a personal preference: I take plot and story over comedy anytime.

Huh. That sounds much more negative than I intended it to. Unlikely as it may seem after such a rant, I do enjoy Eight Bit Theatre, and it's actually amongst my favorite comics, though far behind OotS, Erfworld and Goblins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Setra View Post
Reading over 50 webcomics... I'd have to say I'm a decent judge of them.

Comparing 8-bit to OotS is a joke, if you ask me.

8-Bit has been doing almost the exact same jokes for the entire length of their comic. The characters are shallow, and never-changing, and the humor is fading. It's like Garfield almost, at this point.

OotS is more dynamic, the characters develop, and the jokes do too. It's still funny, and yet at the sime time is also a very entertaining story..

As an afterthought, I'd like to note OotS is in my top five. (After Inverloch, Misfile, and Questionable Content, and before Fanboys)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathander View Post
As for the main comparison (OOTS and 8-Bit), I have to say that OoTS trumps 8-bit in every single way. While I still like 8-Bit, I think it's definantily jumped the shark recently with their quest to get the Orb of Air as, really, literally nothing has happened. While I find it funny, I find OoTS funnier, and a much better strip all told.:amused: :biggrin: :amused: :amused: :biggrin: :amused: I always love it when people read the OP before they post. :smallbiggrin: