Weapons and reach question

[Balldanor]

One of the players in my game and I disagree about what his reach should be, and I wanted to get some other people's thoughts. He is a goliath monk that had permanent enlarge person cast on him, so he is a large character that can use giant weapons. He chooses to carry a 10' pole, and believes that since the weapon is 10' long and his reach is 10' that he should be able to hit creatures in a 15' radius (i.e. treat the 10' pole as extending his reach by an additional 5'). His justification is that the 10' pole is now the length of a polearm or trident, which is a reach weapon for a medium creature, so it should now be a reach weapon for the large creature.

My ruling has been that a 10' pole would be equivalent to a large quarterstaff, which is not a reach weapon. As the 10' reach given to large characters constitutes a combination of the size of the creature and the increased size of the weapon, the additional length of the pole is already included in his 10' reach and does not give him any additional radius to hit.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

[Remuko]

One of the players in my game and I disagree about what his reach should be, and I wanted to get some other people's thoughts. He is a goliath monk that had permanent enlarge person cast on him, so he is a large character that can use giant weapons. He chooses to carry a 10' pole, and believes that since the weapon is 10' long and his reach is 10' that he should be able to hit creatures in a 15' radius (i.e. treat the 10' pole as extending his reach by an additional 5'). His justification is that the 10' pole is now the length of a polearm or trident, which is a reach weapon for a medium creature, so it should now be a reach weapon for the large creature.

My ruling has been that a 10' pole would be equivalent to a large quarterstaff, which is not a reach weapon. As the 10' reach given to large characters constitutes a combination of the size of the creature and the increased size of the weapon, the additional length of the pole is already included in his 10' reach and does not give him any additional radius to hit.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

You are correct. A 10ft Pole is not a reach weapon and thus will not increase his reach. In fact by RAW I'm not sure its even a weapon at all. But yeah a large quarterstaff would be about that size and everything you said about it is correct. If he was using a large longspear which is a reach weapon, his reach with it would be 15' i believe, but that's not the case.

With the way the rules are even if he was a medium monk with a 30 ft "quarterstaff" he could somehow wield he would still only have 5 ft reach since its not a reach weapon.

[Balldanor]

With the way the rules are even if he was a medium monk with a 30 ft "quarterstaff" he could somehow wield he would still only have 5 ft reach since its not a reach weapon.

That I feel is ridiculous.. the reach should somewhat coincide with the length of the weapon, but the reach/non-reach aspect of a weapon should have an impact as well imo

[Venger]

Goliaths are monstrous humanoids and thus not legal targets for enlarge person.

Why doesn't he just use a reach weapon to poke stuff?

[ExLibrisMortis]

As a Large creature, ones natural reach is 10', and one can extend that to 20' with a reach weapon. As an improvised weapon, a 10' pole is not a reach weapon.

A Large goliath can use a Huge reach weapon without penalty, but that does not affect reach.

That's all there is to it.

[Balldanor]

Goliaths are monstrous humanoids and thus not legal targets for enlarge person.

Why doesn't he just use a reach weapon to poke stuff?

Well, I missed the monstrous humanoid vs humanoid issue when he asked about it, so he's had the enlarge person on him for a long time; too late to change it now.

He thought he would be clever (and cheap) by getting a 10' pole, using it as a quarterstaff, and then started trying to argue it would allow him to hit 15' out because he could now already hit 10' out with something as small as a dagger... then tried to argue when I told him it didn't work that way.

[Necroticplague]

He chooses to carry a 10' pole, and believes that since the weapon is 10' long and his reach is 10' that he should be able to hit creatures in a 15' radius (i.e. treat the 10' pole as extending his reach by an additional 5'). His justification is that the 10' pole is now the length of a polearm or trident, which is a reach weapon for a medium creature, so it should now be a reach weapon for the large creature.

This is painfully wrong on several levels.
1. Tridents aren't reach weapons.
2.
A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away
So a Medium reach weapon doesn't give a Large wielder any reach
3. Reach weapons double reach, not adding +5 to it.

Given that 10 feet is only a little larger than what actual people have used as reach weapons (longspears), it seems like he's wielding something that isn't big enough to be a Reach weapon for a large creature (though CWars improvised weapon rules would allow for a suffeciently long object to be used as one).

[Ashtagon]

That I feel is ridiculous.. the reach should somewhat coincide with the length of the weapon, but the reach/non-reach aspect of a weapon should have an impact as well imo

Consider that a Colossal sword is about 64 feet long... but by RAW gives you a 40-foot reach.

Yeah.

:frown:

[Psyren]

That I feel is ridiculous.. the reach should somewhat coincide with the length of the weapon, but the reach/non-reach aspect of a weapon should have an impact as well imo

Reach refers to the effective distance at which you can use the weapon. It's less a question of the weapon's physical size and more to do with wielding and swinging it.

You can of course use a quarterstaff in such a way that it does gain reach - there are multiple ways to do that in fact, such as the Lunge or Spear Dancing Style feats - but those tend to be reflective of specialized combat techniques rather than the norm.

[Vhaidara]

Consider that a Colossal sword is about 64 feet long... but by RAW gives you a 40-foot reach.

Yeah.

:frown:

It actually gives you no reach, it simply has reach based on your size. For example, a Titan Bloodline (able to use gargantuan hammers/picks) pixie (tiny) still has to enter your square to hit you with the 32ft hammer they are somehow wielding.

[Ashtagon]

Reach based on size is still reach.

[Vhaidara]

Reach based on size is still reach.

Yeah, but it's based on the wielder, not the weapon.

[Kayblis]

Let me see if I get it right:
-He's a Medium creature, with persisted Enlarge Person so he's Large.
-He's wielding a 10ft pole as an improvised Large Quarterstaff.

The rules:
Large creatures(or enlarged Medium ones) have 10ft reach. You can hit stuff up to 10ft away, or within 2 spaces of distance.
Reach is defined by the wielder, not the weapon. A Medium character can stack feats and items to wield a Gargantuan weapon, but will still have a reach of 5ft because he's Medium. The damage increases though.
Reach weapons in general double your reach, but don't let you hit within your original reach. They also need to be of an adequate size(your size or larger) to give you this extended reach. So, for a Large creature wielding a large reach weapon, he'd be able to hit stuff 15-20ft from him, but not 5-10ft from him.
A 10ft pole is not a weapon, so it's used as an improvised one. The DM rules that it's an improvised Large Quarterstaff. The player can use it as a quarterstaff, although with a -4 penalty from improvised weapons. It has no reach, because the Quarterstaff is not a reach weapon. Had the DM ruled the 10ft pole as an improvised Medium Longspear(a reach weapon), the Large PC still wouldn't get reach because the weapon isn't at least his size.

Any way you look at it, the player can't just add 5ft to his reach for free. Either he picks a proper reach weapon(and don't get to hit stuff 5-10ft from him) or he stops whining and keeps his normal reach. Or he picks Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain like he should have for a long time now.

[Balldanor]

Thanks for the feedback everyone