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View Full Version : Would the Vigilante be too good without Specialization?



Dr_Dinosaur
2017-09-19, 06:04 PM
Or rather, if it got both Hidden Strike and Full BAB? I know there's not a full BAB sneak attack class, but Hidden Strike seems a bit weaker than SA considering you can't get its full benefit from flanking and "aware of your presence" is vague.

For the sake of completeness, an archetype that forces one Specialization now replaces the other's key feature. Anything that outright replaces Specialization removes Hidden Strike.

So obviously this would be stronger than the Vigilante is now, but is it *too* strong? I don't think so myself but I tend to lean up when it comes to class power.

Ssalarn
2017-09-19, 07:03 PM
That's a hard call. The vigilante is one of Paizo's best-made classes in a lot of ways (even if the premise is a little odd for a class). I guess the follow-up question would be "What else do you use in your games?" If you typically use Path of War, then you probably shouldn't have any issue collapsing the two specializations into one. Avenger is basically on par with martials like the AWT/AAT Figher, UnC Monk, and Brawler, while the Stalker is a bit on the weak side, so you're not going to be adding 1+1 and getting two, it's going to be more like adding 1 + 0.5 (arguably 0.75, but you get the general idea). You'll be stronger than a normal vigilante (or a fighter, rogue, monk, etc.), but probably still within an acceptable performance range of a Warlord, Stalker, or other Path of War class, still swinging lower in general but with competitive functionality. If you prefer baseline martials and don't use a supplement like Path of War, or tend to run what people would consider "gritty" games, then combining Avenger and Stalker is going to create a pretty beastly character who will definitely be coming in a cut above its peers.