Which is better, Fireball or Spirit Guardians?

[gottliebk12]

The following is a spell list of my 4th level Favored Soul Sorcerer for Curse of Strahd. I'm in a party with a level 4 Paladin and a level 4 Monk.

CANTRIP: Fire Bolt, Guidance, Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Sacred Flame

LEVEL ONE: Mage Armor, Guiding Bolt, Thunderwave

LEVEL TWO: Suggestion, Spiritual Weapon

Metamagic: Twinned Spell, Subtle Spell

My question is in the title: which is better, fireball or spirit guardians. Spells known are limited for sorcerers, so I have to be very intentional about which spells I choose. At level 5, I'll get to learn a new spell. I can also forget one to learn another, so I'm planning on dropping thunderwave so I can sub in shield. That means I can add one spell. I am choosing to add an AOE spell, but can't decide between the two.

SG has lower damage but it'll keep enemies at bay, not hurt my allies, and last for a while, but FB does more damage, works right away, and doesn't require concentration. SG also hits wisdom, which is usually lower than FB's Dex.

My stats are STR 10, DEX 14, CON 16, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 20.

At level 6 then, I will either take the other of the two, fly, or dispel magic.

For reference, I'm using the second most recent unearthed arcana' d version of the favored soul.

Any thoughts you have, I'd love to hear. Thanks!

[Rysto]

SG requires you to get pretty close to melee range to be effective, and your character doesn't appear to be built to survive that for very long. SG is a great spell on a heavily armoured Cleric, but on a Sorcerer I'd prefer Fireball.

[Theodoxus]

To echo Rysto, in your case, fireball will be an offensive choice, and spirit guardians, a defensive one. Which you choose should be determined by how you play. Since you have a paladin and a monk, fireball will be trickier to use - you'll need to maneuver it around your allies to mitigate friendly fire. SG obviously doesn't have that limitation.

If you can stand 5 or 10' back from your allies, while the 5-10' edge of the SG is in play, it can work as a minor AOE effect; it becomes more beneficial if you're surrounded and your melee centric party members can't protect you adequately.

Hopefully this helps you move towards a decision.

[Joe the Rat]

I like your mix here - you're really getting an even blend of clerical and arcanist spell choices.

Fireball is a classic back line blaster. Large area, good range, 28 avg damage (+3.5/lvl), most evils of Barovia are not fans of fire.

Spirit Guardians is an area control spell with a damage rider. You become a walking Denial Zone. Every creature you do not designate treats that 15' radius as difficult terrain including flyers. Plus a wisdom save on 13.5 (+4.5/lvl) damage per turn of "evil hates it" radiant damage. For up to 10 minutes. You can outrun pursuers (or chase things down) because they effectively lose 15' of movement (and get burned) whenever you/they are close. The obvious downside is that you have to be pretty close to do damage - no more than a round away from being in melee (again, 30 feet of movement to close the 15'). What you can do is cast SG, then on subsequent turns take the Dodge action, and bonus action attack with Spiritual Weapon.
There's also minimal risk of property damage... or forest fires. In short, there's a bit of flexibility in use.


But for you, I'd recommend fireball of the two. You've got some decent range options, but with that party, there's not a lot of AoE happening. Guiding Bolt is a healthy option, but works best when you have an ally who can also attack - and all of yours are melee, so you're casting close. Fireball works as well (if not better) when your allies can't reach the targets. And you already have spells for "in your face" enemies (thunderwave, plus your "close" ranged like spiritual weapon and sacred flame.)

[Chunkosaurus]

Looking over your current spell list I would take Spirit Guardians for the simple fact that you have no concentration spell as of yet(wasting those good con saves you have), and its a pretty powerful ability. It's essentially free damage. The only thing is you will need to be careful with your HP as being up close puts you at greater risk.

[Citan]

To echo Rysto, in your case, fireball will be an offensive choice, and spirit guardians, a defensive one. Which you choose should be determined by how you play. Since you have a paladin and a monk, fireball will be trickier to use - you'll need to maneuver it around your allies to mitigate friendly fire. SG obviously doesn't have that limitation.

If you can stand 5 or 10' back from your allies, while the 5-10' edge of the SG is in play, it can work as a minor AOE effect; it becomes more beneficial if you're surrounded and your melee centric party members can't protect you adequately.

Hopefully this helps you move towards a decision.
This. I think that overall Spirit Guardians would be easier to work with without any friendly fire problem because, even if Monk (probable) and Paladin (much less so) both had great DEX, they would still suffer significant damage.

Meanwhile, with Spirit Guardians, not only will most enemies avoid you in the first place (or try to hit you at range, more difficult with friendlies by their side), since Spirit Guardians make terrain around difficult, it would be easy to combine it with prone from Monk or Paladin (whoever is best as the time) to keep most creatures unable to either get up or at the very least get up and move away.

Combine that with occasional starter Grapple to bring them into the SG area, or just ensure they stay prone, and you are golden.
Really, even though your lowish AC and HP make it a tad risky, I think it's a no-brainer. ;)

[Contrast]

Do you often find yourself with an opportunity to cast a spell at a bunch of enemies without catching your allies? Choose fireball.

If not, choose spirit guardians.

That said I like spirit guardians in this case just because it seems thematically appropriate choice in Curse of Strahd.

[Psikerlord]

The ability to cow peasants by blowing **** up with fireball is not to be underrated. Fireball!

[gottliebk12]

Thanks everyone for your comments! Does it change anything that I am planning on dropping thunder wave so I can pick up shield at the same time I choose between one of these two.

Is the answer don't take shield, drop thunder wave, take SG and fireball?

[Joe the Rat]

Tempting, but Shield can be a real lifesaver. It's saved my players' resident EK/Wizard far too many times...

What it comes down to is where you fight. If you tend to operate at close range (no more than 50' apart), fireball is a hazard. And you won't be using it on targets close to your team... But you have a lot of single-target options in that regard.

If you tend to hang back, or you get a range of distances, fireball will be useful. Probably not in every fight, but explosions are handy.

I like Spirit Guardians more, but this is a personal preference.

[khachaturian]

For CoS, the radiant damage from spirit guardians ***far*** outweighs any benefit from fireball, as it keeps vamps from regenerating

[Pex]

Playing a Light Domain cleric I have both. Fireball when party members aren't in the area, Spirit Guardians when they are.

[djreynolds]

SPOILER ALERT_____________________________________________ ________

Strahd has awesome dexterity, wisdom, and charisma saves

Your build should be aimed around 10th level and to defeat Strahd. That is 4 levels away

The shield spell is +5 AC as a reaction, so you should have this spell. This is good in melee, or if someone shoots an arrow, etc. I would see also about grabbing absorb elements... this is a good spell

So you are now level 6, you are 4 levels away from the end game.... so I would take fireball. Much of CoS is actually outside and not in a dungeon. Flying around in the air and dropping fireballs sounds fun. And like I said you have 4 levels to go until you should be facing him.

I might take in place of your 8th level ASI, elemental adept fire instead of charisma. Your firebolt might end up being your go to spell for much of the game... this bypasses resistance.

Spirit guardians is awesome but it is concentration. And spells like haste or even protection from evil might better serve you better versus undead and fiends who will target your wisdom saves and make your run away in fear or even charm you. HUGE HINT

So do you really need spirit guardians right now at 6th level? I don't think so

Here is what I would do.

Dump guiding bolt, you have sacred flame, I would rather twin firebolt or sacred flame than guiding bolt.

I might keep thunderwave, dump guiding bolt and then grab the shield spell

For now grab fireball at 6th level.

And at 7th, 8th, 9th or 10th level... dump it then and/or grab spirit guardians if you want

But I would definitely want at 10th level when facing Strahd... protection from evil.... fear and charm really suck.

And remember, quickened and twinned firebolt might just be your big source of damage. You should have 5th level spells by end game and trust me... you may end up turning these slots into spell points so you can in one turn quicken firebolt and then bonus action cast firebolt.

Also try to get one more party member or NPC.

Good luck

[holywhippet]

Each spell will be useful in different circumstances which is common in D&D. Fireball is good for ending a battle quickly when the enemy is grouped together and no allies are near them. But some fights don't work out like that and you can't use a fireball spell without hitting allies. Spirit guardians requires fairly close proximity which is one problem, the fact that it is a concentration spell is another since every time you get hit you risk losing the spell.

If you expect to face a fair number of undead I'd go for spirit guardians, otherwise I'd grab fireball.

[hymer]

SPOILER ALERT

You should try the Spoiler tags. It really works! :smallwink:

@ OP: I think the smart stuff has been said. I'll just echo the part about Concentration. Spirit Guardians is an excellent use of it, but there can be only one at one time, of course. So you need to plan accordingly.

[djreynolds]

You should try the Spoiler tags. It really works! :smallwink:

@ OP: I think the smart stuff has been said. I'll just echo the part about Concentration. Spirit Guardians is an excellent use of it, but there can be only one at one time, of course. So you need to plan accordingly.

I have never gotten the hang of this spoiler thing

I suck at it