Useful classes to add onto monsters(and other advice)?

[danielxcutter]

I believe that a good deal of full caster classes will work, due to the unassociated class levels rule, and due to the fact that casting in general is very powerful. Still, I'd like some more specific advice - for example, spells that work well. I hear Blood Wind is great for monsters that use natural weapons, for one.

ToB classes are also great for adding some extra punch to a beatstick - and often flavor as well.

Still, I'm not really that knowledgable about this, or good at it for that matter.

So...?

[Venger]

I believe that a good deal of full caster classes will work, due to the unassociated class levels rule, and due to the fact that casting in general is very powerful. Still, I'd like some more specific advice - for example, spells that work well. I hear Blood Wind is great for monsters that use natural weapons, for one.

ToB classes are also great for adding some extra punch to a beatstick - and often flavor as well.

Still, I'm not really that knowledgable about this, or good at it for that matter.

So...?

I assume you're gming.

what kind of monsters?

what level is you party?

how many pcs ?

what classes are they?

don't artificially undervalue CR to trick your party. giving a giant wizard levels is dirty pool

[danielxcutter]

I assume you're gming.

what kind of monsters?

what level is you party?

how many pcs ?

what classes are they?

don't artificially undervalue CR to trick your party. giving a giant wizard levels is dirty pool

Nah, just thought exercise.

Also, why is giving a giant wizard levels dirty pool? Whatever that means? :smallconfused:

[Venger]

Nah, just thought exercise.

Also, why is giving a giant wizard levels dirty pool? Whatever that means? :smallconfused:

It's a very broad question with no clear end goal in sight. I'm not really sure where to start in that instance.

Not kosher. Unsportsmanlike. A jerk move. Etc.

Let's say you throw your party against a giant. You want him to be tougher than the giant in the monster manual so you'll give him some levels. fine.

His favored class is fighter, which is a terrible class. It will add +1 cr per level because it's an associated level.

You decide you want him to be a wizard instead. Wizard is a powerful class. Since it's "nonassociated" it's worth +1 cr per 2 levels.

You're knowingly giving monsters access to more powerful goodies and not giving your party as much experience as if they fought a much easier enemy. What's the point of that? You're already the gm, you have unlimited resources, so you aren't proving anything by killing the party.

give monsters class levels if you want, but just make it a straight +1 cr for every level you give them. casters don't need a leg up over mundanes.

[danielxcutter]

It's a very broad question with no clear end goal in sight. I'm not really sure where to start in that instance.

Not kosher. Unsportsmanlike. A jerk move. Etc.

Let's say you throw your party against a giant. You want him to be tougher than the giant in the monster manual so you'll give him some levels. fine.

His favored class is fighter, which is a terrible class. It will add +1 cr per level because it's an associated level.

You decide you want him to be a wizard instead. Wizard is a powerful class. Since it's "nonassociated" it's worth +1 cr per 2 levels.

You're knowingly giving monsters access to more powerful goodies and not giving your party as much experience as if they fought a much easier enemy. What's the point of that? You're already the gm, you have unlimited resources, so you aren't proving anything by killing the party.

give monsters class levels if you want, but just make it a straight +1 cr for every level you give them. casters don't need a leg up over mundanes.

:smallconfused: Um... well, said giant certainly won't have as powerful magic as the PC casters, for one. And that was only one of many, many possible examples.

[Drakevarg]

Do people actually use nonassociated levels? :smallconfused: There are so many dumb rules in the game that I dismiss out of hand, I honestly forget half of them are even there.

Anyway, personally I design my encounters from a narrativist point of view. Intelligent creatures will have classes as is appropriate to their character. Yes, even random monsters on the road have character, even if that character is just "bandit."

In my eyes, an intelligent creature with no class levels is the same thing as a Commoner 1 for races with no RHD. They're civilians. If they actually do anything that would warrant encounters with adventurers, they probably have at least a few levels in something. For me, doing so instantly adds more flavor to an encounter than something randomly pulled from the Monster Manual, which might as well be just clobbering the party over the head with an angry stat block.

[danielxcutter]

Do people actually use nonassociated levels? :smallconfused: There are so many dumb rules in the game I honestly forget half of them are even there.

Eh, I know, but it is RAW. I'm just doing this as a thought exercise anyways, since I don't plan on DMing anytime soon.


Anyway, personally I design my encounters from a narrativist point of view. Intelligent creatures will have classes as is appropriate to their character. Yes, even random monsters on the road have character, even if that character is just "bandit."

In my eyes, an intelligent creature with no class levels is the same thing as a Commoner 1 for races with no RHD. They're civilians. If they actually do anything that would warrant encounters with adventurers, they probably have at least a few levels in something. For me, doing so instantly adds more flavor to an encounter than something randomly pulled from the Monster Manual, which might as well be just clobbering the party over the head with an angry stat block.

Heh, yeah. I mean, not *all* monsters should have class levels, but certainly, some should occasionally.