What are your favorite archetypes or archetype combinations?

[Wartex1]

I've seen talks of favorite prestige classes and favorite classes, but I don't see much about favorite archetypes, and I know there are a ton of good and flavorful archetypes out there as well.

For instance, my favorite archetypes are Living Grimoire (Inquisitor), Saboteur (Alchemist), and Gingerbread Witch (Witch, duh).

However, there's also some really neat combinations, like Eldritch Scoundrel and Hidden Blade (PoW content) for the Rogue.

[Psyren]

There's too many to list. I'm a big fan of the archetype system and I can spend hours just coming up with new combinations to base characters on.

Some of my favorites are the ones that remove casting from a certain class in exchange for something else. They almost always make that class a little weaker, because spells/extracts are that good, but they also enable concepts that can be hard to pull off any other way. For example, a Shapeshifter Alchemist who doesn't use extracts or bombs is a character I've always wanted to play, as is a Temple Champion Paladin in a no-spellcasters campaign.

[Eldonauran]

Hmm, that's a good question... I consider the archetype a favorite if I would, more often than not, choose to take it over the other archetypes or base class.

I do have a favorite... The Druid (Nature Fang), maybe tack on (Druid of Gorum) so we can wear metal armor without losing some of our class features for 24 hours.

[legomaster00156]

I like playing a Wizard (Pact Wizard/Pact Wizard) with the Pact Servant and Dragon Pact traits.

[Ellrin]

I've always thought it would be hilarious to have a tome eater occultist and an order of the tome cavalier in the same party.

[Psyren]

I've always thought it would be hilarious to have a tome eater occultist and an order of the tome cavalier in the same party.

"Godsdammit Krunk, again???"

[Mehangel]

One combination which I very much enjoyed was Nimble Blade (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife/archetypes/dreamscarred-press/nimble-blade) combined with Gifted Blade (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife/archetypes/dreamscarred-press/gifted-blade). It is unfortunate that the Path of War errata wasn't updated to allow the combination of Nimble Blade + War Soul (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife/archetypes/dreamscarred-press/war-soul-soulknife-archetype/).

[Grod_The_Giant]

There's too many to list. I'm a big fan of the archetype system and I can spend hours just coming up with new combinations to base characters on.

Some of my favorites are the ones that remove casting from a certain class in exchange for something else. They almost always make that class a little weaker, because spells/extracts are that good, but they also enable concepts that can be hard to pull off any other way. For example, a Shapeshifter Alchemist who doesn't use extracts or bombs is a character I've always wanted to play, as is a Temple Champion Paladin in a no-spellcasters campaign.
Wait-- shapeshifter Alchemist?

[Psyren]

Wait-- shapeshifter Alchemist?

Sorry, I was being lazy. The actual archetype name is Metamorph (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/metamorph-alchemist-archetype/).

[Elricaltovilla]

Martial Master Mutagen Warrior Fighter takes a bottom of the barrel class and pushes it to very nearly Tier 3. Still has a dearth of skill points, sadly.

[Azoth]

While it trades away alot of class abilities, I do love stacking Infiltrator, Preacher, and Sin Eater on Inquisitor. It plays alot differently than a typical Inquisitor, but is fun in its own right.

One of my player's is about to give it a spin and combo it with a Soul Eater dip. He is going for a divine assassin feel. I can't wait to see how it pans out for him. The idea of stealthing in, killing the target, trapping it's soul and devouring it's sins is awesome.

[Forrestfire]

I'm a huge fan of the Vigilante (serial killer). The synergy with Unchained Rogue multiclass (maybe not optimal, but amusing and leads to some nice shenanigans), the (Ex) charm effect, and Death Attack on a base class (while not particularly strong, it certainly feels nice) are really nice.

Likewise, the Rogue (thug)'s debuffs are incredibly efficient for what I tend to want to do with rogues, so I'm a fan there as well. Likewise, Rogue (eldritch scoundrel) does some very fun things; ES URogue is basically what I, personally, want out of an Intelligence-based spellbook caster, so I've had a lot of fun with that.

Honorable mention to the Avowed (betrothed), Soulknife (living legend), and Kineticist (avant guard), though I suspect those are a bit disingenuous to list :smalltongue:

[Grod_The_Giant]

Sorry, I was being lazy. The actual archetype name is Metamorph (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/metamorph-alchemist-archetype/).
Hmm, neat. Terrible, but neat.

[Rynjin]

Hmm, neat. Terrible, but neat.

I wouldn't say it's TERRIBLE...in a Gestalt game. Or if you start at around level 10-13. Early levels are rough though.

My personal favorites are the Ectoplasmatist Spiritualist, Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor, Speaker for the Past Shaman, and a toss-up between the Shield Champion and Exemplar Brawler (I REALLY wish they stacked).

Not that archetypes for Core classes are bad, but there's so many good ones for the Core classes it's hard to list them all without making this a "Top 5 archetypes for each class" list.

[grarrrg]

Skulking Slayer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/half-orc/skulking-slayer-rogue-half-orc) Scout (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo-rogue-archetypes/scout) Rogue.

Scout: Charging turns your attacks automatically into Sneak Attacks
Skulking Slayer: Charging with a 2-handed weapon upgrades your Sneak dice to d8's

KROG SNEAK ATTACK!

[Psyren]

Hmm, neat. Terrible, but neat.

It's weak at early levels but gets good not long after. You don't need to wait until 10 either - level 4 is enough to stay shapeshifted for the whole adventuring day.

I would simply be a regular alchemist from levels 1-3 or so and then retrain into it.

Another of my favorite archetypes (one that raises the base class' power this time) is Amnesiac Psychic.

[Rynjin]

It's weak at early levels but gets good not long after. You don't need to wait until 10 either - level 4 is enough to stay shapeshifted for the whole adventuring day.

At 4th it's just Alter Self though, which functions basically as a worse Beastmorph Mutagen (1/4 the upside, but no downside at least). At 5th you get Monstrous Physique I, which isn't as great as it sounds since most of the cooler monstrous humanoid abilities are locked at MP I, so it's just "Alter Self, but can grant move speeds".

MP II comes on at 9, which is where you start to be in business, and it just ramps up from there since MP III-IV and both Giant Forms are really good. MP IV finally lets you be a Calikang (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/monstrous-humanoids/calikang/) which is where things start to get REALLY fun.


Another of my favorite archetypes (one that raises the base class' power this time) is Amnesiac Psychic.

I forgot about the Amnesiac! I played one in a (sadly) short lived game a few years ago, they're really damn cool. It let me play a redeemed (sort of) villain (he'd been mindwiped and dumped in an unfamiliar city) without going through a whole campaign first.

[Yanisa]

Martial Master Mutagen Warrior Fighter takes a bottom of the barrel class and pushes it to very nearly Tier 3. Still has a dearth of skill points, sadly.
Great combo, but I also add Eldritch Guardian (and Mauler for Familiar) to the mix. It really feels like a neat package where all the archetypes connect to each other to create something unique.

Another of my favorites Feral Gnasher, even when Goblin is one of the worst choices for Barbarian.

[grarrrg]

The actual archetype name is Metamorph (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/metamorph-alchemist-archetype/).

"This ability replaces alchemy (which also includes bombs, extracts, and mutagen) and Throw Anything."
"At 1st level, a metamorph gains mutagen"
:smallsigh:

[Florian]

I really like archetypes that manage to deepen the fluff of a class, as well as the mechanical function.
Hexenhammer (Inquisitor), Mounted Fury (Barbarian), Daring General (Cavalier) and Foehammer (Fighter) are ones I like the most. I rarely use more than one archetype for characters I play, with the exception of Mounted Fury and Superstitious on a Barbarian, as I feel they complement each other well, both in theme as well as mechanics.

[Rynjin]

"This ability replaces alchemy (which also includes bombs, extracts, and mutagen) and Throw Anything."
"At 1st level, a metamorph gains mutagen"
:smallsigh:

Why the sigh?

It takes away an all encompassing class feature, and then adds one sub-section back as part of the archetype.

[lord pringle]

Reaper of Secrets/Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor with Improved Outflank and Betrayal feats. Stare an enemy as a swift and then flank with them for sneak attack, since they threaten their own square. Then Ally Shield them every chance you get.

[Kitsuneymg]

Great combo, but I also add Eldritch Guardian (and Mauler for Familiar) to the mix. It really feels like a neat package where all the archetypes connect to each other to create something unique.

Another of my favorites Feral Gnasher, even when Goblin is one of the worst choices for Barbarian.

Since the weapon master's handbook, I can't see me using Martial Master fighter anymore, and it used to be my favorite. Giving up access to Advanced Weapon Training means no Iron Caster. Dip brawler 1 and you can then flex Advanced Weapon Training, select Item Mastery, and then proceed to "cast" any of those spells on that list. It's a very rough trade to make for a better martial flex ability.

Lore Warden (PFSFG) + Myrmidon is one of my favorite combos ever.

The new Virtuous Bravo looks like it'll shape up to be real fun, even if it loses spell casting. Not sure how it'll compare to daring Champion.

[Florian]

Dip brawler 1 and you can then flex Advanced Weapon Training, select Item Mastery, and then proceed to "cast" any of those spells on that list. It's a very rough trade to make for a better martial flex ability.

OT: Try repeating a Occultist (Panoply Savant) 2/Fighter (Weapon Master) 3 building block routine. Ok, you´re locked into the Sword´n´Board style, but that makes a great Iron Caster.

[SwordChucks]

I forgot about the Amnesiac!

This made me smile.

I'm a fan of the Blaster Armorist archetype because why not be Megaman?

[Kitsuneymg]

OT: Try repeating a Occultist (Panoply Savant) 2/Fighter (Weapon Master) 3 building block routine. Ok, you´re locked into the Sword´n´Board style, but that makes a great Iron Caster.

im not exactly conversant with the occultist. Can you explain how that build accomplishes flexible casting?

[Psyren]

At 4th it's just Alter Self though, which functions basically as a worse Beastmorph Mutagen (1/4 the upside, but no downside at least).

I don't see how it's worse - you can get all of the abilities instead of just one, and it stacks with your regular mutagen to boot, getting you up to +6 Str at 1st level instead of just +4. In addition, since you don't need Int like a regular alchemist, you can focus on your physical stats, and boosting your Str with your Mutagen no longer gimps you.



At 5th you get Monstrous Physique I, which isn't as great as it sounds since most of the cooler monstrous humanoid abilities are locked at MP I, so it's just "Alter Self, but can grant move speeds".

MP II comes on at 9, which is where you start to be in business, and it just ramps up from there since MP III-IV and both Giant Forms are really good. MP IV finally lets you be a Calikang (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/monstrous-humanoids/calikang/) which is where things start to get REALLY fun.

Yeah MP2 gets you a Tikbalang so that's indeed a strong start.


"This ability replaces alchemy (which also includes bombs, extracts, and mutagen) and Throw Anything."
"At 1st level, a metamorph gains mutagen"
:smallsigh:

I don't see the issue. They even make sure to add language that you can use a Mutagen without the alchemy class feature.

The whole point of the archetype is to make you a melee beast, doing that without a Mutagen would be silly. They just remove the bombs and extracts.

[Pex]

I like the archetype system as a matter of game design. It allows players to specialize and in some cases have effective multiclassing while remaining one class. Personally it's not for me. I generally like the base classes as is and don't want to give up what I have to for the archetype. However, there are a couple of exceptions. I like Dual Cursed Oracle for the luck manipulation and Seer Oracle providing a better in my opinion Mystery Spell List than some appropriate Mysteries, especially Lore. Extra Revelation Feat makes up for whatever Revelations you want from your Mystery now as opposed to later when you take the archetype Revelations.

[Rynjin]

I don't see how it's worse - you can get all of the abilities instead of just one, and it stacks with your regular mutagen to boot, getting you up to +6 Str at 1st level instead of just +4. In addition, since you don't need Int like a regular alchemist, you can focus on your physical stats, and boosting your Str with your Mutagen no longer gimps you.

I forgot how Beastmorph works, mostly. Turning into a Sasquatch is definitely superior to just getting one of the options.

I still think it's a pretty bad trade until MP II though. In terms of raw buffing stacking Extract buffs is generally better or close to it, so the loss in utility and reliable ranged AoE damage still hurts.

I guess that's a problem with the archetype in general though. It feels bad compared to the base Alchemist, but at the same time it's really good just taken on its own merits as compared to other non-caster classes. It kinda could have just been its own class with some other helpful features, people have clamored for a dedicated shapeshifter for a while.


Yeah MP2 gets you a Tikbalang so that's indeed a strong start.

Yeah, Tikbalang is another good one. I actually got the two confused at first since the names are so similar and had to change it.

[Psyren]

I guess that's a problem with the archetype in general though. It feels bad compared to the base Alchemist, but at the same time it's really good just taken on its own merits as compared to other non-caster classes. It kinda could have just been its own class with some other helpful features, people have clamored for a dedicated shapeshifter for a while.

That's exactly why I like it - as a dedicated shapeshifter class in its own right. I agree that compared to a straight Alchemist it's weak, but T4 is my floor rather than T3 like many around here.

[Wartex1]

Then you'll probably like the Shifter class coming out in November in Ultimate Wilderness. It's supposed to be a full BAB no-spell shapeshifting class.

[Florian]

im not exactly conversant with the occultist. Can you explain how that build accomplishes flexible casting?

On the Fighter side, you have the usual Barroom Brawler > Abundant Tactics > Advanced Weapon Training > Item Mastery Feat thing going.
On the Occultist side, you go for the Trapping of the Warrior, which you have complete at 2nd level, with the archetype giving more free Mental Focus points. Combat Trick let´s you exchange 3 MF for a combat feat, as Barroom Brawler but without use limitation, the Implement Mastery feat allows you to spent MF for additional uses of an Item Mastery Feat, way earlier than is usually possible.
Beyond that and also looking at Warrior Spirit, mixing in Occultist levels will allow you to "supercharge" some items, so you´ll basically run around with a +18 weapon and +13 armor and shield, which is nifty as you don´t have to invest WBL. (See also: Training enhancement)

[Psyren]

I like the archetype system as a matter of game design. It allows players to specialize and in some cases have effective multiclassing while remaining one class. Personally it's not for me. I generally like the base classes as is and don't want to give up what I have to for the archetype. However, there are a couple of exceptions. I like Dual Cursed Oracle for the luck manipulation and Seer Oracle providing a better in my opinion Mystery Spell List than some appropriate Mysteries, especially Lore. Extra Revelation Feat makes up for whatever Revelations you want from your Mystery now as opposed to later when you take the archetype Revelations.

For me it's the opposite, I like being able to give up features. A lot of the time, a base class is composed of various disparate elements just to help spark ideas of the directions where it can go. For example, Inquisitors have a pure martial focus, a party buffing focus, a monster identification and lore focus, a social interrogation focus, and a teamwork combat focus. But if there is one of those I don't find necessary, an archetype lets me drop it to strengthen one of the others, as the Preacher archetype does with the teamwork focus for more party buffs.

Similarly, the Medium class has a 5th-man focus with its spirits but also deals with haunts and seances as a way to introduce those mechanics. But if you know for sure your campaign isn't using those rules, you can pick an archetype like Storyteller or Legend Channeler to drop them.


Then you'll probably like the Shifter class coming out in November in Ultimate Wilderness. It's supposed to be a full BAB no-spell shapeshifting class.

Glad to see more Ultimate books are coming :smallsmile:

[grarrrg]

Why the sigh?

It takes away an all encompassing class feature, and then adds one sub-section back as part of the archetype.

Because it looks stupid.
"You lose Mutagen!...Except you DON'T lose Mutagen!"

If they had changed ANYTHING about the ability it wouldn't be as irksome.

[Psyren]

Because it looks stupid.
"You lose Mutagen!...Except you DON'T lose Mutagen!"

If they had changed ANYTHING about the ability it wouldn't be as irksome.

If they had written it any other way people would find something to bellyache about in that too.

[Wartex1]

I just discovered the War Drummer Skald Archetype.

It's pretty boss, sacrificing some of the less useful abilities to better hit things in the face.

[Kurald Galain]

Personally I like archetypes with unique and flavorful abilities (that are not just a bonus to hit or damage). For instance, Bladebound or Eldritch Scion Magus; Spirit Walker or Enigma mesmerist; Maneuver Master monk; Reincarnated druid; or Flesheater barbarian.

Also separatist cleric because of the options it opens.

[Peat]

Zen Archer Monk always look really cool to me on multiple levels.

[Wartex1]

Zen Archer Monk always look really cool to me on multiple levels.

I've used a Zen Archer Monk before. It's really nice, but I wish Flurry of Arrows counted as Rapid Shot/Manyshot for prerequisite purposes, since I wanted to use it with Overwatch Style.

[Kitsuneymg]

On the Fighter side, you have the usual Barroom Brawler > Abundant Tactics > Advanced Weapon Training > Item Mastery Feat thing going.
On the Occultist side, you go for the Trapping of the Warrior, which you have complete at 2nd level, with the archetype giving more free Mental Focus points. Combat Trick let´s you exchange 3 MF for a combat feat, as Barroom Brawler but without use limitation, the Implement Mastery feat allows you to spent MF for additional uses of an Item Mastery Feat, way earlier than is usually possible.
Beyond that and also looking at Warrior Spirit, mixing in Occultist levels will allow you to "supercharge" some items, so you´ll basically run around with a +18 weapon and +13 armor and shield, which is nifty as you don´t have to invest WBL. (See also: Training enhancement)

You need weapon master 4 before you can take abundant tactics, but I see what you're going for.

IMO, Abundant Tactics is a meh way to access AWT unless you start at high level, as you get few extra uses before level 11 (or whenever you can afford Duelist Gloves.) I do like that Combat Trick/mental focus thing and am going to play with it next time I make a character. Does Occultist get past the faq that says +10 is the maximum limit period, even for temp stacking or bane increases or the like?

Here's a thing to consider to: Barroom Brawler has no "replaces existing feat" language. Item Mastery Feats are not Combat Feats and AWT doesn't have daily uses, so language about not reseting daily uses of combat feats doesn't apply. Shurikens are ammunition and each one can be bought and enchanted individually and drawn into hand as a free action. +1 training Barroom Brawler on each shuriken for many uses of the ability. Or just one (or more) of every AWT(Item Mastery(X)) option. Amulet of Mighty Fists should allow you to add multiple +1 training to your fists to. +1 training imp init, +1 training quickdrawn, +1 training toughness, many possibilities. As long as your GM goes with your fists being "held in hand" you're golden. Consider spiked gauntlets as well. I doubt armor spikes or shield spikes would work though.

I haven't dared this level of cheese in a real game yet. But I kinda want to.

[Florian]

Does Occultist get past the faq that says +10 is the maximum limit period, even for temp stacking or bane increases or the like?

The whole class is build around the idea of getting more power out of items by binding them as implements. The entire point is that you can supercharge an item investing MF beyond the usual limits, but by using MF to power other abilities, this will sooner or later degrade back to normal.

[AlmaPenzare]

Unchained Rogue + Hidden Blade + Untouachable + Dimensional Jaunter. At that point you have lost all rogue class featues apart from ones unique to unchained, and half your rogue talents, but you're playing an awesomely enjoyable jack of all trades character with good martial options and good utility through spirits and teleporting

[Molosse]

Gotta say I'm in Psyrens boat. I'm a big fan of archetypes which strip away class features and replace them with more specific, dedicated options. Even if they are a bit weaker/less versatile than the base class. So for me combinations like a Scout/Swashbuckler Unrogue or a Standard Bearer/Courtly Knight Cavalier always give me a lot of fun. Especially when you can throw VMC's on the top.

[Prime32]

Fighter (High Guardian (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo-fighter-archetypes/high-guardian-fighter-archetype/)) is a pretty nice recent archetype.

Medium (Kami Medium (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/medium/archetypes/paizo-llc-medium-archetypes/kami-medium-medium-archetype/)) gets an interesting change to how its spells work.

Druid (Elemental Ally (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/archetypes/paizo-druid-archetypes/elemental-ally-druid-archetype/)) gets four eidolons instead of an animal companion, though they can only summon one at once. In theory you could dip Summoner (Synthesist) to make them four Fused Eidolons instead.

[Wartex1]

I can imagine someone saying, "Go Squirtle!" when changing eidolons.

[rahimka]

I had a blast as an Unchained Rogue using both the Scout and Thug archetypes with the Enforcer feat. For extra grease/cheese I also had a Sarenrae religion-trait that let me use a slashing weapon to do non-lethal w/o penalty on the attack roll (still needed a non-lethal property to use sneak attack though) and an Ifrit trait to just Take 10 on Intimidate checks even in combat (to make sure my maxed out skill bonus wasn't tanked by a poor roll)

Great from day1, but by lvl4 the build was an absolute beast, capable of stacking all sorts of debuffs (with no chance to save) on a single 10ft charge attack:
shaken/frightened + sickened + debilitated = -2 to damage rolls, -4 to all saves, and either -6 to-hit (8 against the Rogue), or -4 to-hit & -2 AC (4 against the Rogue)

Then either position for TWF sneak-attack full-attack to shred their HP, or just charge (or LEAP across difficult terrain using Acrobatics boosted by an Unchained Rogue trick) at the next target and wreck THEIR day.

Around level 7 or so, I picked up Dazzling Display and had a high enough Intimidate check to start inflicting Frightened on entire rooms full of enemies at once (talk about action denial). I once used that to keep a 4-5 Elementals at bay for several rounds (while repeatedly failing to shake off the blinding effect of a Glitterdust spell). Good times...