Short Rest Squad

[EdenIndustries]

Hey everyone, if you saw my thread a while back about optimizing a character that is all about manipulating dice (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?526665-Ultimate-Dice-Manipulator-(character-concept) - and I have that character at level 4 now, and is proving to be quite fun thus far I must say!) you know that I love optimizing characters built around a specific theme! And the next theme of interest to me is a team of characaters all focused around short-rest abilities.

Now, it just so happens that the character classes that tend to interest me most are those with abilities that more or less recharge on a long-rest, so this was a fun thought experiment in terms of making me interested in classes I normally bypass.

So, my initial plan went like this:

Moon Druid 20
Battlemaster Fighter 20
Monk 20
Warlock 20

Each of those classes has some fantastic short-rest recovery and it's super simple, no multiclassing, great!

But...

It occured to me that Monk would be pretty cool with Hex. And while I could just pick up Magic Initiate for a once-per day Hex, what if I dipped into Warlock? That preserves the short-rest feel of course, which is a core part of what I'm trying to do.

Monk 18/Warlock 2 still gets Empty Body from Monk, while picking up Hex and some fun Invocations, like Devil's Sight and something else (anyone have any ideas?). And hey if I'm doing that anyway, I guess Shadow Monk is a fun Monastic Tradition to go for! And since I get two cantrips from Warlock, Eldritch Blast for a ranged option and Booming Blade (great to use in the darkness) seem pretty cool!

And if I'm opening up the multiclassing can-of-worms, Fighter might be cool with Hex too. Fighter 18/Warlock 2 still gets the the d12 Superiority Dice, and again from Warlock we get Hex and some fun invocations - I'm thinking Devil's Sight (may as well have the majority of the party seeing through magical darkness!) and...Misty Visions? It'd be nice to have someone have that.

Moon Druid 20 still seems solid, gotta love that capstone!

And then for the Warlock character...I'm not a huge fan of Warlock 20. So I was thinking Warlock 14/15 and Lore Bard 5/6 for the great Font of Inspiration. The problem with that is we either get the last Patron feature at level 20 or Font of Inspiration at level 20. Ugh, that sucks. So maybe Warlock 20 is still the best way to go with that. And I'm thinking Hexblade for Patron (to apply the Hexblade Curse while hammering people with EB from the back) and Pact of the Tome to grab all the rituals.

Also, for the two Warlock dips for Monk and Fighter, I'm leaning towards Hexblade for them too. Which is kind of lame...but that Hexblade's Curse works so well with the purpose of the dip (tacking on per-hit damage).

So, that's the basic idea for the Short Rest Squad. Anyone have any thoughts on that, or ways to improve it? And remember, I'm not going to optimal characters necessarily, but characters that squeeze all they can out of a short rest.

Thanks!

[Specter]

Trade the Moon Druid for a non-Arcane Trickster Rogue. Their only spendable feature is the level 20 capstone. Otherwise, they're good all day.

[EdenIndustries]

Trade the Moon Druid for a non-Arcane Trickster Rogue. Their only spendable feature is the level 20 capstone. Otherwise, they're good all day.

I thought of that, but the Rogue doesn't have any features that recharge on a short rest (aside from their capstone as you mentioned), and I'm trying to build classes that specifically do have short-rest-recharging abilities. Now it's true that the Druid does have all their spells that require a long rest and not a short rest, so I admit that's not a perfect one either. But still, having the wild shape recharge on a short rest is decently on-theme for what I'm trying to achieve.

[Specter]

I thought of that, but the Rogue doesn't have any features that recharge on a short rest (aside from their capstone as you mentioned), and I'm trying to build classes that specifically do have short-rest-recharging abilities. Now it's true that the Druid does have all their spells that require a long rest and not a short rest, so I admit that's not a perfect one either. But still, having the wild shape recharge on a short rest is decently on-theme for what I'm trying to achieve.

Uh... isn't 'always on' strictly better than 'short-rest recharge'?
And in any case, if Druid is on the table then you probably want Land Druid, since they recover spells on a short rest.

[EdenIndustries]

Uh... isn't 'always on' strictly better than 'short-rest recharge'?
And in any case, if Druid is on the table then you probably want Land Druid, since they recover spells on a short rest.

In a general sense, perhaps 'always on' is strictly better than 'short-rest recharge'. However, the theme of this thought experiment is builds that have short-rest recharge abilities. So for the purpose of the theme I'm going for, 'always on' isn't what I'm looking for.

[Sir_Solifuge]

What can be really fun is to them start thinking of races that could fit these short rest rabble-rousers. Races with recharged too.

What comes to mind is a Dragonborn's breath.

[EdenIndustries]

What can be really fun is to them start thinking of races that could fit these short rest rabble-rousers. Races with recharged too.

What comes to mind is a Dragonborn's breath.

Good idea! That is pretty neat. I haven't played a Dragonborn, or DM'd for any player playing on, but the chatter I hear makes it seem like their breath is pretty inneffectual though. Does anyone have any play experience to back that up?

Also, now I'm wishing more races had a similar short-rest ability, that'd sure add for more diversity in the team instead of 4 Dragonborn characters!

[dejarnjc]

Bards are pretty good short rest heroes, almost on par with Moon Druids. They get their bardic inspiration back on a short rest at level 5 and they have song of rest at level 2 which will help boost healing during a short rest.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[smcmike]

One way to think of this challenge is to optimize for a Gritty Realism campaign in which long rests will be few and far between.



And in any case, if Druid is on the table then you probably want Land Druid, since they recover spells on a short rest.

A Druid's real short-rest resource is wildshape. Natural Recovery is fine, but it won't let you keep up with the other short-rest classes over the long term, since it's only once per long-rest.

Interestingly enough, Wizard's Acrane Recovery is identical, except it's once per day, not once per long rest. It makes a Wizard challenging, but playable, in gritty realism.

Inspiring Leader and Healer are must-have feats for someone in the party.

[EdenIndustries]

A Druid's real short-rest resource is wildshape. Natural Recovery is fine, but it won't let you keep up with the other short-rest classes over the long term, since it's only once per long-rest.

Interestingly enough, Wizard's Acrane Recovery is identical, except it's once per day, not once per long rest. It makes a Wizard challenging, but playable, in gritty realism.

Yeah this was basically my line of thinking also, which is why I opted for Moon Druid over Land Druid and no Wizard, even though they both do get a bit of spell recovery.


Inspiring Leader and Healer are must-have feats for someone in the party.
Great point! I'll definitely think about how to incorporate those...

[Trampaige]

Interestingly enough, Wizard's Acrane Recovery is identical, except it's once per day, not once per long rest. It makes a Wizard challenging, but playable, in gritty realism.


Oh come on, this is a RAI/RAW textual oversight just like Drow magic being per day instead of long rest. Any DM who runs gritty realism is going to laugh at you for suggesting wizards should get that many more spells than any other caster. It's clearly meant to work just like land druids do, just gritty realism isn't in the PHB.

[smcmike]

Oh come on, this is a RAI/RAW textual oversight just like Drow magic being per day instead of long rest. Any DM who runs gritty realism is going to laugh at you for suggesting wizards should get that many more spells than any other caster. It's clearly meant to work just like land druids do, just gritty realism isn't in the PHB.

If that were the case, why didn't they provide an errata for it when they did for Drow Magic? Textual oversights are solved by errata.

If a DM laughed and told me that, I'd laugh and play a Warlock.

[Citan]

Hey everyone, if you saw my thread a while back about optimizing a character that is all about manipulating dice (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?526665-Ultimate-Dice-Manipulator-(character-concept) - and I have that character at level 4 now, and is proving to be quite fun thus far I must say!) you know that I love optimizing characters built around a specific theme! And the next theme of interest to me is a team of characaters all focused around short-rest abilities.

Now, it just so happens that the character classes that tend to interest me most are those with abilities that more or less recharge on a long-rest, so this was a fun thought experiment in terms of making me interested in classes I normally bypass.

So, my initial plan went like this:

Moon Druid 20
Battlemaster Fighter 20
Monk 20
Warlock 20

Each of those classes has some fantastic short-rest recovery and it's super simple, no multiclassing, great!

But...

It occured to me that Monk would be pretty cool with Hex. And while I could just pick up Magic Initiate for a once-per day Hex, what if I dipped into Warlock? That preserves the short-rest feel of course, which is a core part of what I'm trying to do.

Monk 18/Warlock 2 still gets Empty Body from Monk, while picking up Hex and some fun Invocations, like Devil's Sight and something else (anyone have any ideas?). And hey if I'm doing that anyway, I guess Shadow Monk is a fun Monastic Tradition to go for! And since I get two cantrips from Warlock, Eldritch Blast for a ranged option and Booming Blade (great to use in the darkness) seem pretty cool!

And if I'm opening up the multiclassing can-of-worms, Fighter might be cool with Hex too. Fighter 18/Warlock 2 still gets the the d12 Superiority Dice, and again from Warlock we get Hex and some fun invocations - I'm thinking Devil's Sight (may as well have the majority of the party seeing through magical darkness!) and...Misty Visions? It'd be nice to have someone have that.

Moon Druid 20 still seems solid, gotta love that capstone!

And then for the Warlock character...I'm not a huge fan of Warlock 20. So I was thinking Warlock 14/15 and Lore Bard 5/6 for the great Font of Inspiration. The problem with that is we either get the last Patron feature at level 20 or Font of Inspiration at level 20. Ugh, that sucks. So maybe Warlock 20 is still the best way to go with that. And I'm thinking Hexblade for Patron (to apply the Hexblade Curse while hammering people with EB from the back) and Pact of the Tome to grab all the rituals.

Also, for the two Warlock dips for Monk and Fighter, I'm leaning towards Hexblade for them too. Which is kind of lame...but that Hexblade's Curse works so well with the purpose of the dip (tacking on per-hit damage).

So, that's the basic idea for the Short Rest Squad. Anyone have any thoughts on that, or ways to improve it? And remember, I'm not going to optimal characters necessarily, but characters that squeeze all they can out of a short rest.

Thanks!
Well...

I'd be tempted to say that you should choose two "lines of conduct": either pure classes, or multiclass. Either "bet on reaching 20" or "make them great at lower levels".

For pure classes I'd say your original plan is very fine.

If you want multiclasses that aim at level 20, let me suggest a thematic party with each character relying on a specific ability.

CHA: Lore Bard 6 / Devotion Paladin 6 / Warlock 8: the protector...
That wields medium armor, shield and rapier, and grabbed Inspiring Leader feat as well as Protection Fighting Style and Sentinel. You stand in the front line, taking some heat, diverting other attacks, dishing out nova damage when necessary with smite.

Short rest abilities: Sacred Weapon, short rest slots, Bardic Inspiration/Cutting Words, Song of Rest, Inspiring Leader.

Leveling: Paladin 1 > Warlock 1 (Booming Blade) > Paladin 3 (Sacred Weapon) > Warlock 2 (2nd 1st level slot) > Lore Bard 5 (Bardic Inspiration) > whatever.
If only official, pick Fiend Warlock, with Tome or Chain pact.
If non-official, Hexblade, no questions. ;)

INT: Eldricht Knight 11 / Bladesinger Wizard 9: the gish
You mix heavy melee attack prodigy (4-5 attacks per turn depending on whether Haste or not) with powerful AOE damage or debuff (Eldricht Strike).

Short-rest abilities: Action Surge, Bladesong, Arcane Recovery.

Leveling: Fighter 1 > Wizard 3 (Bladesong, Shield, Magic Missile, Mirror Image, Shatter, Booming Blade) > Fighter 6 (Warcaster) > either Wizard 5 first or Fighter 11 first.

WIS: Life Cleric 5 / Land Druid 6 / Open Hand Monk 9: the gluer stick
Combine Plant Growth (which doesn't affect you), Spirit Guardians and Open Hand riders to keep many people in place, together with your CHA-geared pal. Keep everyone alive by preparing Life Goodberries when in safety or using Beacon of Hope when ending a short rest, or using emergency Sanctuary/Healing Words, or buffing your protector with Warding Bond.
Use Shillelagh and Bless to max your WIS first.
Variant: low Monk to 7 (lose free wall/water running, one ASI) and instead grab Land Druid 7 (4th level spells) and Rogue 1 (Expertise in Grapple).

Short-rest abilities: Channel Divinity, Wild Shape, Monk features.

Leveling: Cleric 1 > Druid 1 > Monk 5 > whatever.

DEX&STR: Thief Rogue 5 / Battlemaster 6 / Bear Barb 4, rest in whatever you want: the versatile.
if UA is allowed, Spellless Ranger is the top. If you want a bit of spellcasting, Tempest Cleric 2 with Magic Initiate for maximized Booming Blade, or plain Cleric for Bless and other things may be nice, or Draconic Sorcerer to grab Shield, Booming Blade and armor.
You obviously grab Healer feat and Expertise in Athletics, possibly Martial Adept, Sharpshooter or Mage Slayer depending on taste and stats.
You position around where it's best, Shoving/Grappling/Tripping creatures or just hitting them hard with finesse weapons: building either DEX or STR works equally well, with Dex hinting at range (Sharpshooter) while STR hints at melee (Barb's rage bonus).
You can keep yourself and others up to speed thanks to Healer feat and Thief's ability to use objects as a bonus action.

Short-rest abilities: Manoeuvers, Action Surge.

Leveling: Barb 1 > Rogue 1 (so you are immediately good at shoving/grappling) then really any way is good.

----
The problem of this party is that two of them has a much lower reliance on short rest.
On the plus side, each is fairly resilient (AC, self-heal), you can easily get all important skills covered, you can get all rituals, all great 1st, 2nd and 3rd level spells, and there are many combos you can enable, whichever "pair" or "triplet" of characters you take.


Another way to go at it could be to tell this squad is actually 4 people who followed exactly the same formation and career, and design multiclass builds that have many interchangeable goals. But this obviously require "boostrapped level 8-10" characters.