Evil god influencing good cleric - what should the influence look like?

[Zhari]

Hi there,

lets get right into it:

To put the prestory in a nutshell:
My lawful good cleric found an item, which was possessed by Imix - I know, no real "god". After using the item for a while imix started influencing him. Turning him from good to neutral and getting him a few points on the madness table. But before the Influence was too strong, the cleric was able to destroy the item by throwing it through a portal.:smallcool:


Now: the group is entering a fire node (playing pota), imix holy ground. I thought about restarting the influence (there was silence after destroying the item). Maybe with a whisper in the air for the cleric in the first room. and more more coming the deeper the group gets into the node.
Here i need help!:smalleek: any ideas how the influence should look like? let the clerc roll a wisdom sv with an increased DC each room? I dont know how to play this out and everyone, including the cleric player, having extra fun...

his god is tempus btw:smallwink:

thanks for helping out a rookie dm :smallsmile:

Zhari

[Keltest]

Perhaps hallucinations. Imix was offended by the cleric's rejection of his "gifts" so now he's just tormenting him. Make him hear things others cant, maybe see enemies that aren't there. pick a few illusion spells and use their saving throws and resistance mechanisms to let him see past the hallucinations.

[Aett_Thorn]

Well, as Tempus is a Neutral deity (formerly CN), how was the character justifying his LG character against his deity? You could have Imix playing off of that shift, trying to shift the character away from LG, and more towards the N tendencies of his god. Trying to get him to realize that battle is chaotic, and not lawful, and that the end results are not always good. Have him pretend to be an aspect of Tempus that favors the chaotic side of battle and war, and that he isn't a foe of the character at all, just a being who wants to get him closer to the teachings of his chosen god.

[hamishspence]

Well, as Tempus is a Neutral deity (formerly CN), how was the character justifying his LG character against his deity?

Doesn't 5e chuck away the one step rule? Even in the days of the one-step rule, some neutral deities were exceptions. Gond, for example, allowed every alignment, despite the fact that normally the 4 "corner alignments" were barred for clerics of TN deities.

In that respect, as long as the cleric is involved with war/fighting somehow, Tempus may care very little about their morals.

[KorvinStarmast]

Cleric alignment is not required to match deity alignment. D&D 5e. Also true for Adventurer's League.

[Joe the Rat]

I routinely make suggestions to my players.
A lot of the time it's to remind them of things they (the players) have forgotten that the characters likely would not.
Sometimes it's to remind them of abilities and features that they rarely use.
And sometimes, just sometimes, it's to give them a Bad Idea. Casting Lightning Bolt while standing in water, jumping into darkness, trying to seduce the BBEG in combat, using light sources when in a high-stealth mode, the Wand of Wonder solves any problem, etc. Now half the time they come up with these on their own. Sometimes they just need a nudge.

When the party discusses action, throw the paladin an Imix-aligned suggestion. No creepy voice, no associated factors, just friendly helpful DM pointing out that there is a LOT of fire here, so it wouldn't be hard to dispose of the bodies.

If you want to be systematic about it, secretly roll for influence (Say, Imix Persuasion vs. 10+Wis save (or Cha save, since it's about the sense of self). On a pass, you can give the Paladin a Bad Idea next time it comes up. You can have the roll bonus increase as you get deeper.

Now once they catch on that something's not right, switch to open opposition (Paladin makes save vs Imix DC), with a slightly more aggressive insistence on a course of behavior.

[lebefrei]

You left out a lot of important information about your god that would drastically effect how they go about influencing someone.

What kind of evil is this god? A lawful evil god would probably offer temptation, a neutral evil god would possibly trick the dwarf, and a chaotic evil god would use force to bring the cleric to heel. Also, the domains of the god can change the way it behaves.

Just keep in mind for your player that forcing alignment shifts and subservience to an evil god might not be fun, as it changes the way they have to play their character. Make sure you have the kind of group willing to do this sort of thing, or you can just cause drama.

[Malifice]

Convince the Cleric to torture and/or kill followers and clerics of other Gods 'for the greater good'.

Preferably to kill evil followers and clerics of evil Gods (this will be much moe palpable to the Good aligned Cleric). Inquisitions, pogroms, holy wars, purges of infidels and apostates. Etc.

Its a win/ win for the Evil god. His rivals lose followers, and he corrupts the Cleric to his own alignment by encouraging evil acts.

[Zhari]

These are some good ideas. Thanks pals!:smallsmile:
I think I got enough ideas to prep the next sessions :smallcool:

[Aett_Thorn]

Cleric alignment is not required to match deity alignment. D&D 5e. Also true for Adventurer's League.

Doesn't necessarily need to match (or be one step removed) from Deity alignment, sure. But I think that a player should have a good in-game reason for having a LG cleric of Tempus. Similarly, if I had a player want to play a LG cleric of Cyric, I'd want to hear their reasons for that. Sure, it's allowed, but that doesn't mean that it necessarily makes sense. Why would Torm grant spells and abilities to a CE cleric, for example?

[Maxilian]

Well i don't think there is much reason to make a BIG change in the player, i mean... they destroyed the item, so i will go something along the line:

"The influence of the artifact has twisted your sense of humor", so... the PC will find missfortune more funny, mainly those that have done out of "Mindless courage".

"Wait... so your husband went to the orc camp to rescue his son? and he is a farmer? HAHAHAHHA! What a poor bastard!, it seems we are going to pick up two coprses now *says the paladin while laugthing after the farmer's wife tell the party to help her rescue her family*

[Malifice]

Why would Torm grant spells and abilities to a CE cleric, for example?

'Salvation may be found through service. Every failure of duty diminishes Torm and every success adds to his luster. Strive to maintain law and order. Obey your masters with alert judgment and anticipation. Stand ever alert against corruption. Strike quickly and forcefully against rot in the hearts of mortals. Bring painful, quick death to traitors. Question unjust laws by suggesting improvement or alternatives, not additional laws. Your fourfold duties are to faith, family, masters, and all good beings of Faerun.'

He's a CE Vengance Paladin of Torm who follows that dogma ^^^. He is opposed to all other religions (seeing them as infidels and apostates); focussing on Torms aspect as 'the True' (or One True God). He reserves special hatred for Banites. Regarded as a loose cannon by the rest of the local Church, few can question his zeal in dealing with Banites (he mercilessly puts them to the sword).

He 'strives to maintains law and order' by engaging in acts of arbitrary violence, spurred by his hatred and bloodlust.

He 'obeys his masters with alert judgment and anticipation'. He interprets this as allowing him to show 'initiative' and not 'let common sense' get in the way of 'stifling rules' that might otherwise stop him from engaging in acts of arbitrary violence, spurred by his hatred and bloodlust.

He 'seeks to strike quickly and forcefully against rot in the hearts of mortals', by engaging in acts of arbitrary violence, spurred by his hatred and bloodlust.

He brings 'painful, quick death to traitors', by engaging in acts of arbitrary violence, spurred by his hatred and bloodlust.

He (always) 'questions unjust laws' (ones that interfere with him engaging in acts of arbitrary violence in the name of the faith), by suggesting improvement or alternatives (changes to the laws that permit him and the church to kill infidels and engage in acts of arbitrary violence, spurred by his hatred and bloodlust), not make additional laws. Heck, to him - the less laws the better!.

He has sworn to defend and uphold faith, family, masters, and all good beings of Faerun... by slaughtering their enemies and those who would harm or threaten them (by using arbitrary violence, spurred by his hatred and bloodlust.)

Its a stretch for sure, but its not ourside the realms of a plausible PC. A very nasty, vicious, hot tempered and brutal man, just one who fights for a very good cause.

Also; its not for Torm to judge his worshippers. That role was gifted to Kelemvor (by Ao) who determines whom was true (and goes to their Gods afterlife) and whom was false (and gets turned into wallpaper).

A CE cleric of Torm probaby isnt aware he is CE (probably assumes he is doing it right), and is also in for a rude shock on death (he's faithless).

[hamishspence]

A CE cleric of Torm probaby isnt aware he is CE (probably assumes he is doing it right), and is also in for a rude shock on death (he's faithless).

he's one of the False actually - but the basic point is sound. You can be False without rejecting your deity - all you have to do is break a lot of the deity's rules.

[Aett_Thorn]

Its a stretch for sure, but its not ourside the realms of a plausible PC. A very nasty, vicious, hot tempered and brutal man, just one who fights for a very good cause.

Also; its not for Torm to judge his worshippers. That role was gifted to Kelemvor (by Ao) who determines whom was true (and goes to their Gods afterlife) and whom was false (and gets turned into wallpaper).

A CE cleric of Torm probaby isnt aware he is CE (probably assumes he is doing it right), and is also in for a rude shock on death (he's faithless).

Oh, I completely agree. I don't care that they the deity's tenants are being stretched, I just want the Player to come up with a good reason for how he makes it work. It should certainly be allowed, but if I were the DM, I'd certainly be asking some questions to my player about how he makes a CE Devotion Paladin of Torm work.

But I agree that in-world, he'd be considered False, and would be having one heck of a bad time in the afterlife.