Fractional BAB/saves confusion

[rigsmal]

So a lot of people (including me) used to play fractional BAB/saves in a way such that only a first-level character gets the +2 bonus on good saves. Entering another class with the same good save gives a better progression, but doesn't gain the +2 bonus again.

But upon reading the Unearthed Arcana variant, it seems like these are not the actual fractional BAB/saves rules. Every time you enter a new class, you gain the +2 bonus on good saves.

So does anyone know where the former fractional BAB/saves rules are from?

[Eldariel]

So a lot of people (including me) used to play fractional BAB/saves in a way such that only a first-level character gets the +2 bonus on good saves. Entering another class with the same good save gives a better progression, and doesn't gain the +2 bonus again.

But upon reading the Unearthed Arcana variant, it seems like these are not the actual fractional BAB/saves rules. Every time you enter a new class, you gain the +2 bonus on good saves.

So does anyone know where the former fractional BAB/saves rules are from?

They're from WotC website. Though any reasonable person would houserule that for the UA version too; no logic in heavy multiclassing mystically giving you superhigh saving throws.

EDIT: The WotC article (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20060303a)

[Crake]

Pathfinder's fractional bab system in unchained also only grants the +2 bonus once.

[rigsmal]

They're from WotC website. Though any reasonable person would houserule that for the UA version too; no logic in heavy multiclassing mystically giving you superhigh saving throws.

EDIT: The WotC article (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20060303a)

Thanks for the link.

Is it so unreasonable, though? The opportunity cost for dipping many times is losing out on higher-level abilities. Maybe having inflated saving throws is a balancing mechanism.


Pathfinder's fractional bab system in unchained also only grants the +2 bonus once.

Yep, Unchained fixed a lot of things. Monk among them.

[Eldariel]

Thanks for the link.

Is it so unreasonable, though? The opportunity cost for dipping many times is losing out on higher-level abilities. Maybe having inflated saving throws is a balancing mechanism.

It makes no sense to try and balance an unrelated thing with another. Why would multiclassing even improve saves? Saves shouldn't be a reason to multiclass - if you want better saves, pick items/feats/spells or class FEATURES to improve them. But why would Pally 2/XYZ 18 have better saves than Pally 20? Doesn't help at all.

Especially since practically speaking, you never multiclass for saves - too high opportunity cost. It just makes class dips and multi-PRC/martial multiclass builds have improbably high saves as a free bonus for no good reason. In addition to all the poached low level abilities from Mindbender, Fatespinner, Archmage, Master Specialist, etc.

All things being equal, it incentivizes multiclassing for saves instead of making natural single class characters in a system where the only hard-to-improve single class character is Druid 20 (assuming Planar Shepherd banhammer).

[Elkad]

I wasn't even aware of the Wizard's version. Thanks.

I just decided stacking +2s was not intended and made it a houserule.
Right after "thou shalt never double-advance casting in a single class via PRCs, Feats, or any other similar method".

[rigsmal]

It makes no sense to try and balance an unrelated thing with another. Why would multiclassing even improve saves? Saves shouldn't be a reason to multiclass - if you want better saves, pick items/feats/spells or class FEATURES to improve them. But why would Pally 2/XYZ 18 have better saves than Pally 20? Doesn't help at all.

Especially since practically speaking, you never multiclass for saves - too high opportunity cost. It just makes class dips and multi-PRC/martial multiclass builds have improbably high saves as a free bonus for no good reason. In addition to all the poached low level abilities from Mindbender, Fatespinner, Archmage, Master Specialist, etc.

All things being equal, it incentivizes multiclassing for saves instead of making natural single class characters in a system where the only hard-to-improve single class character is Druid 20 (assuming Planar Shepherd banhammer).

Yeah, it's pretty reasonable. The intuition's there, since most already assume the +2 bonuses don't happen repeatedly. That's just more consistent design.