DM says you can give your character whatever stats you want

[Eladrinblade]

You're invited to a game, a standard by-the-books 3.5 affair, to make a 1st level character. The DM says you should make whatever kind of character that you like best and really want to play. He says you can give your character whatever stats you want, as long as you don't go higher than a base of 18 of course. The idea is to give yourself stats that you are totally happy with.

What do you choose? What build?

[daremetoidareyo]

What kind of character do you want to play?

[Mike Miller]

Straight 8s, Truenamer. Then ask the DM what the trick is

[Eladrinblade]

It's not a trick or an experiment. The DM wants to just bypass rolling or point buy and let you have what you want. It is hypothetical, though; I'm not running such a game or playing in one.

[Vaern]

Bard or sorcerer, 18 charisma, 14 int, 12 dex/con/wis, and 10 strength. Nobody likes having inherent penalties to their rolls, but giving yourself perfect stats is no fun either. I might end up being the only one at the table that doesn't just give myself 18s across the board, but whatever.

As far as build, I don't think a character starting out at level 1 is going to have anything you might call a "build." You don't have any really interesting gear, feats, spells, or class features to make yourself feel any different from another character of the same class. I would say it isn't until somewhere around 5 or 6, when you've reached 3rd level spells and likely qualify for your first prestige class level, that your character opens up to options that actually make it feel really unique.

[rigsmal]

Monk, 18s across the board.

I'm literally not even kidding. This might make core monk bearable for levels 1-6.

[Vhaidara]

It's not a trick or an experiment. The DM wants to just bypass rolling or point buy and let you have what you want. It is hypothetical, though; I'm not running such a game or playing in one.

As a note, I actually DID do this for a PF game.

Weirdly, everyone ended up within 2 points of a 27 point buy.

[Hiro Quester]

Gnome Druid with 18 wis and con, 14 int and dex, 10 str and cha.

High important stats, low str out of wildshape, but a riding dog AC with saddlebags to carry stuff (and you) at low levels.

Enough dex to use a sling at very low levels.

And a cha penalty to make things interesting, socially.

[Nubsternator]

Monk, 18s across the board.

I'm literally not even kidding. This might make core monk bearable for levels 1-6.

Lol I was gonna say that too.

[Psyren]

For me it would depend on what everyone else went with. I'm not going to be the guy sticking to 25 point buy when everyone else in the party went all 16s or 18s, and I similarly wouldn't want to be the only one going 18 in everything either.

[Elkad]

"Whatever stats you want" just means I can try out something MAD and not struggle.

If I stuck with a normal caster build (Wizard), I might pump dex/con more, but I still don't see the need for a bunch of charisma. Or strength (though I might go to 12-14 in a low-level game just to make my pack lighter).

But if I decide to play a Paladin? Yeah, I'd have a 16 Int as my low stat.

[radthemad4]

For me it would depend on what everyone else went with. I'm not going to be the guy sticking to 25 point buy when everyone else in the party went all 16s or 18s, and I similarly wouldn't want to be the only one going 18 in everything either.
This, pretty much. Some groups like having multiple 18s. Some feel that even one is too much. If the other players have wildly differing pointbuys, then... I don't know... Either use stats similar to the average or the highest array among the existing players.

[Eldan]

I've done it before. Interestingly, I ended up with one character who had a stat of six ("I wanted him to have a weakness") and one with an 8. One had only 14s and up ("Sorry, I couldn't really think of anything this guy was bad at.") and one had pretty standard point buy stats, all between 10 and 16.

[Fiery Diamond]

Well, my favorite stat array is what I call the "champion array": 18,16,14,12,10,8. If I was allowed to pick any stats at all, I'd start with that. If we're playing 3.5 instead of pathfinder, I'd up the stats some.

Probably something like:

Human Sorcerer (evocation focused)

Str 10
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 18

I like to have higher stats. If other people had multiple 18s and 16s in the group, I'd change it to:

Str 10
Dex 18
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 18

[RoboEmperor]

18 in everything.

As a caster cleric only wisdom is important and even then, I only need 15. Maybe a bit of strength to carry the full plate and tower shield, so being 25 point buy or straight 18s doesn't matter.

In addition I always change my race somehow later in the game. Epic Spells, Wish from Savage Speicies, or True Mind Switch or Astral Seed + Mind Switch so my physical scores definitely don't matter at all.

But still, I'm an optimizer so given the opportunity to go 18s in everything I will take it.

Either that or I'll go 25 point buy while everyone else goes straight 18s just because I'm that good at this game.

[StriderITP]

All 3's goblin commoner

[ExLibrisMortis]

Um. I'd first bring an all-18 array, just to make a point. Then I'd replace that with a 32 point-buy array, because all 18s is bland.

[Florian]

That´s a tough one. I think I´d try some of the more "transformative" builds, like creating an Occultist as main combatant or an Inquisitor as main caster.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Um. I'd first bring an all-18 array, just to make a point. Then I'd replace that with a 32 point-buy array, because all 18s is bland.

The DM wants you to be free to play whatever you want, without being handicapped by either bad rolls, or cramped into pointbuy, and you want to make a point?

Can I ask what that point is? I'm curious. I've had several DMs around the table just agree to '3d6 reroll 1s and 2s' just because they feel it generates more able characters, without being too overpowered.

[ExLibrisMortis]

The DM wants you to be free to play whatever you want, without being handicapped by either bad rolls, or cramped into pointbuy, and you want to make a point?

Can I ask what that point is? I'm curious. I've had several DMs around the table just agree to '3d6 reroll 1s and 2s' just because they feel it generates more able characters, without being too overpowered.
The point is that 'whatever stats' is stupid. It's equivalent to all 18s, except that you feel bad for picking all 18s, because it's so lame. I don't want to be the lame guy who picks all 18s, and I don't want to play the "guess what everyone else will pick and try not to stand out too much" game, and I don't want massive stat differences between players. Just pick a point-buy and stick to it. It's there for a reason.

[Dragonexx]

I really should just start declaring this for the games I play. All 18's really isn't that big of a deal, and being able to just pick your stats straight out helps a lot when designing a character.

Like with mikami, where I figured being trained as a ninja meant she wasn't really that strong or tough, so low str and average con but 18 dex. She practices storm magic, and those abilities are WIS dependant so max wis, as well as her investigative abilities so decent int. Not experienced in social situations that much, so average charisma...

It's actually pretty fun to do.

[Elkad]

I like high point buys (35 minimum, and 50 isn't wrong). Or "lotta6b3".
Encourages my players to try odd ideas. Play MAD characters. Even try to make a Monk work :face_horror


And it changes balance very little. The topic has come up before.
Straight 18s don't ever move you up a tier. Even mismatched between characters. Even if you take it further than that. The T3 guy with 24,20,20,18,18,18 for stats is still T3. The T1 guy with 16,8,8,6,6,6 for stats is still T1.

So why not let your players play something that fits an ideal. Low buy means your melee type has to be stupid, weak-willed, unappealing and STILL has to choose between fast and strong.

[Thomeyis]

I'm with the Monk guy. Straight 18s and pick some ridiculously MAD low-tier build. Stuff like Paladin or Marshal is pretty ok if you have raw stats backing up the lack of power in the class features.

[JNAProductions]

Probably Mongrelfolk DFA, my classic, with the following stats (after racial adjustments):

Str 8
Dex 14
Con 22
Int 14
Wis 8
Cha 14

Definitely higher than average (Mongrelfolk have a net -2) but nothing ridiculous. The Strength penalty is obviously pretty irrelevant, but the Wisdom penalty might seem odd-after all, Will saves matter!

The reason that's the case is that, quite simply, I like playing rash or naive characters. I don't like playing dumb characters (plus I'd like some more skill points), but I like characters who make bad decisions.

[dascarletm]

The point is that 'whatever stats' is stupid. It's equivalent to all 18s, except that you feel bad for picking all 18s, because it's so lame. I don't want to be the lame guy who picks all 18s, and I don't want to play the "guess what everyone else will pick and try not to stand out too much" game, and I don't want massive stat differences between players. Just pick a point-buy and stick to it. It's there for a reason.

That's a very different outlook on the situation than I would have. You see it in an antagonistic situation where you need to match other players, but get the highest stats you can. As you said, you would pick all 18s, but you don't want to be "that guy." I see it as: make an interesting character, give him stats that reflect themselves. If your idea of a fun character is, I am literally the strongest, toughest, quickest, smartest, wisest, and most dashing person around, then that's fun for you I suppose. I might try this with my group actually.

[flappeercraft]

18 in everything but only a commoner. Only take commoner levels and PrC's that I can qualify for. I want to see if I can stay on par with the other PCs.

[Wartex1]

Same as Monk guy, except go with Serpentfire Adept and see what I could do to reroll Nat 1s on saving throws.

[BassoonHero]

I think that the best approach is to talk to the other players.

As everyone has said, there's no real wrong answer here. All 18s is fine. 32-point buy is fine. Something in between is fine. The risk isn't that you might pick the wrong answer, but that each player will choose very differently and that some player will be disappointed. This is a risk that can only be mitigated by talking to the other players.

If it were me, I'd suggest something like 40 point buy and in the end go with what everyone else was doing (within reason). If the other players are reasonably savvy, then this could be an opportunity to suggest better stats for the weaker classes and more conservative stats for the spellcasters. Or maybe everyone will just go with all 18s if they know that everyone else is doing it too. The important thing is that no one feels resentful before the game even starts.

[Andreaz]

18s in the core stats for the class (usually 1 or 2. Classes with more than that are icky). The rest gets 10s or 14s depending on importance.


Great stats where it matters the most, good stats where I want them, the rest doesn't matter but 0s are easier to account than -1s or 1s.

[Telonius]

Figure out my build, put the minimum stat in each one that qualifies me for my feats. If I'm not a caster, 18 in Str if I'm typical melee; 18 in Dex if I'm ranged, TWF, or finesse-ing. If I am a caster, 18 in my casting stat. Then an 18 in Int, because I always need more skill points. 14 (if it's a stat I care about) or 10 (if it isn't) in everything else.

So probably...

Rogue
Str 10
Dex 18
Con 14
Int 18
Wis 10
Cha 14


Or possibly
Bard
Str 10
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 18
Wis 10
Cha 18

[TheIronGolem]

If I were given carte blanche on ability scores, I'd probably take the opportunity to play a concept that includes a high degree of both physical and mental excellence - something along the thematic lines of Captain America or Khan from Star Trek that can't be faithfully represented with a dump stat. The choice of race and class would then follow from the chosen concept.

[Eladrinblade]

What kind of character do you want to play?

Well, I have a particular character build that I'm in love with, and I'd give him Str 13, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 8 or 12, and Cha 18 at 1st level. With the wisdom, it depends on if I'm allowed Keen Intellect or not (12 if not), with Cha, I don't need it mechanically at all (normally, it'd be an 8), but I just want it. By 20th, just with level-ups, he'd be 14/20/12/20/x/18. I like elves, but I also like humans with elf blood. I like rangers/scouts/rogues, transmutation and illusion magic (buffing/utility/deception/anti-caster and some abjuration for defense), and being exceptionally fast and dodgey. So some kind of light warrior/skillmonkey/gish. Either a courtblade or TWF with light blades, and a bow, with magic and spell-trigger items, and a non-spell interfering suit of light armor, like leather/mithril chain/glassteel breastplate or maybe black or silver dragonscale if it were light too.

That'd be perfect.


Monk, 18s across the board.

I'm literally not even kidding. This might make core monk bearable for levels 1-6.


Lol I was gonna say that too.

I knew there'd be people saying this. It's kinda the first thing that leaps to mind. Monks and paladins. I feel ya; it'd definitely be fun.


That's a very different outlook on the situation than I would have. You see it in an antagonistic situation where you need to match other players, but get the highest stats you can. As you said, you would pick all 18s, but you don't want to be "that guy." I see it as: make an interesting character, give him stats that reflect themselves. If your idea of a fun character is, I am literally the strongest, toughest, quickest, smartest, wisest, and most dashing person around, then that's fun for you I suppose.

Yeah. If you want all 18's and the DM allows it, go for it. You're being held back by your fears of what you think other people think.

Personally, if I did all 18's, it would be on a build that is generally considered weak, but can make good use of all of them, like monk/paladin (I see that as the type of secret agent character Tom Cruise often plays [as if he would ever actually have 18 str]). Good at everything, but not focused enough at anything to be the "best" at it (except probably saving throws).

I'm perfectly happy playing with the elite array (as long as no one else starts with better), but if given the opportunity, I'd love to play somebody with two or three 18s, two or three 12s or 14s, and depending on the build, one low stat like an 8. That leaves me good at where I want to be, decent where I ought to be, and bad where it doesn't matter.

[Goaty14]

Isn't now the time to pull out that barbarian you've always wanted to play with 2 Int?

Yea, me too...

[ExLibrisMortis]

Three things about "whatever stats":
The game rules no longer demand choices about stats.
As part of (1), the optimization is trivial: all 18s is the best array for any and all purposes.
As part of (1), there is no D&D-based justification for having different stat arrays, fluff or crunch.


That's a very different outlook on the situation than I would have. You see it in an antagonistic situation where you need to match other players, but get the highest stats you can. As you said, you would pick all 18s, but you don't want to be "that guy." I see it as: make an interesting character, give him stats that reflect themselves. If your idea of a fun character is, I am literally the strongest, toughest, quickest, smartest, wisest, and most dashing person around, then that's fun for you I suppose. I might try this with my group actually.
It's not antagonistic, it's just politeness. In a group of carefully-crafted organic characters with all 13s and 14s balanced by 7s and 8s, you're not supposed--by commonly accepted principles of fairness, intra-party balance, and generally being on the same page about things--to play the "generic all 18s" dude who got high stats because, well, stats might come in handy?

Now, you could say: "But Libris, in such a party, that expectation would be clearly communicated!". Well, quite. I would say: "That's what the choice of a point-buy is meant to communicate, gender-non-specific straw man!".

Now, as a solution to the "special snowlake with all 18s"-problem, you can declare "all 18s" to be the new normal. However, if you do, why would anyone pick anything else?

So, you have a choice: a situation where everyone acts as if there is a point-buy, to craft balanced, organic characters; a situation where you're encouraged to pick all 18s, but also discouraged to pick all 18s, without any apparent way to decide between the two; or a situation where all your stats are just 18. I think that, overall, that's either needlessly complicated, annoying, or boring.


Nota Bene: I am all for playing loose with the point-buy, feat, skill, LA, gestalt, and RHD rules, if it gets you a more interesting character. By all means, give monks a 60-point buy and gestalt psywar. However, I think you should, as group, choose a "possibility space" a priori, within which all characters are to be built, and then stick to it. Don't leave it up to me!*


*Or rather, if you leave it up to me, I'm bringing my ultraquantum deep-neural-optimization supernuclear powerbuffed electrovortex of DOOM (fusion + astral seed) and expect you to take it seriously :smalltongue:.

[EliDupree]

Finally freed from the tyranny of point buy, I would make all of my stats –

– ALL of my stats –

– be odd numbers.

[Amphetryon]

18 17 16 14 12 8

Build a Dread Necromancer, and dump CON for story purposes

[dascarletm]

Three things about "whatever stats":
The game rules no longer demand choices about stats.
As part of (1), the optimization is trivial: all 18s is the best array for any and all purposes.
As part of (1), there is no D&D-based justification for having different stat arrays, fluff or crunch.


It's not antagonistic, it's just politeness. In a group of carefully-crafted organic characters with all 13s and 14s balanced by 7s and 8s, you're not supposed--by commonly accepted principles of fairness, intra-party balance, and generally being on the same page about things--to play the "generic all 18s" dude who got high stats because, well, stats might come in handy?

Now, you could say: "But Libris, in such a party, that expectation would be clearly communicated!". Well, quite. I would say: "That's what the choice of a point-buy is meant to communicate, gender-non-specific straw man!".

Now, as a solution to the "special snowlake with all 18s"-problem, you can declare "all 18s" to be the new normal. However, if you do, why would anyone pick anything else?

So, you have a choice: a situation where everyone acts as if there is a point-buy, to craft balanced, organic characters; a situation where you're encouraged to pick all 18s, but also discouraged to pick all 18s, without any apparent way to decide between the two; or a situation where all your stats are just 18. I think that, overall, that's either needlessly complicated, annoying, or boring.


Nota Bene: I am all for playing loose with the point-buy, feat, skill, LA, gestalt, and RHD rules, if it gets you a more interesting character. By all means, give monks a 60-point buy and gestalt psywar. However, I think you should, as group, choose a "possibility space" a priori, within which all characters are to be built, and then stick to it. Don't leave it up to me!*


*Or rather, if you leave it up to me, I'm bringing my ultraquantum deep-neural-optimization supernuclear powerbuffed electrovortex of DOOM (fusion + astral seed) and expect you to take it seriously :smalltongue:.

Ah, I see what you mean now.

Finally freed from the tyranny of point buy, I would make all of my stats –

– ALL of my stats –

– be odd numbers.

You monster:smalltongue:

[Psyren]

Finally freed from the tyranny of point buy, I would make all of my stats –

– ALL of my stats –

– be odd numbers.

And then stop at level 3?

[Ignimortis]

Human Warblade, 18 STR, 14 DEX, 16 CON, 16 INT, 10 WIS, 12 or 14 CHA. Then again, I might go for a 12-18-14-14-12-12 Warforged Scout...
No point in straight 18s across the board, but starting with one 18 is nice, and being able to bring up other stats could be useful. I'm used to higher point-buys anyway.

[Astralia123]

The secret of peer pressure...

[thelastorphan]

Choosing stats is generally how I build notable npcs. Some builds are very MAD and some things just wont work without multiple 18s. Especially skill master npcs. But I try to go no further than a build requires. TWF sometimes means going a bit overboard.

[gkathellar]

I would recreate my old alcoholic ranger from 2E, who I naturally rolled a 16/18/16/15/16/15 spread for.

Yeah it was ridiculous, and so I played him as ridiculously as possible. For some reason DMs responded by handing me tons of magic items. My favorite was the unidentified bloodthirsty talking sword with a big question mark on its attack bonus on my character sheet.

[Gullintanni]

Isaac the Mad
Human Illusionist

Str: 15
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 18
Wis: 8
Cha: 16

This was the stat array for one of my legacy characters who was born in AD&D, and survives to this day. I like staying true to the original rolls. He eventually inherited a small gem that randomly teleports him from one universe into another. Now whenever I want to play him at a table; the fluff is that the gem transported him into a world governed by different rules; new natural and magical laws. He's been played in AD&D, 2nd ed, 3.5, and Pathfinder. One day,

[Alcore]

14, 14, 12, 10, 8, 8

Tiefling synergist* (summoner)


*people say it's broken/op but it's not as broken as a druid.

[SirNibbles]

It'd depend on what class I wanted to play.

Monk: 18/17/16/13/12/11 with the 18 in Dex, 17 Wis, and 16 Str
Cleric/Wizard/Sorcerer: 18/13/12/11/9/9 with the 18 in Wis/Int/Cha, respectively
Fighter: 18/16/14/13/12/8 with 18 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 13 Int, 12 Wis, and 8 Cha
Paladin would be similar to Monk.

The weaker/more MAD the class, the higher the stats would generally be.