How do you all plan leveling up?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

For the first time here with spell choices and the idea of multi-classing in the back of my head I have used a spreadsheet (I love Excel) to project what my level 5 Bard's abilities will be at level 6 then more interestingly 7 if I multi-class.

How do you all do it? Just on the character sheet? Do you all play so much you can do it in your heads? On a phone app maybe?

[Ixidor92]

This may sound silly, but for 5e I find that not planning out your level ups is more enjoyable and more helpful to the game as a whole. Rather than trying to plan out "how is my character going to get stronger?" I instead ask "What has my character been doing in the campaign so far, and what do I need and/or want to improve under those? As an example: I an currently playing a tiefling druid that is at lvl 5. At level 1 I had already planned out all of my ability score increases, or so I thought. Through play I am finding that it would be far more valuable for me to take the skilled feat at level 8 to become proficient in skills that I am repeatedly using but do not have proficiency in. Now, maybe it's different for multi-classing (With the character I mentioned I have NO intention of multi-classing) but I would ask myself what I wanted as a player when the level up came. Would I rather have this level in another class now, later, or never? How badly do I want these abilities? That sort of thing.

Now, for actual planning techniques, what I did in 3.5 whenever I had a character that needed multiple classes was I actually just used a .txt file (notepad++ or similar). Have your characters current stats at the top, and then on each line below your base stats mark the following: what class am I taking, what feat (if any) am I gaining, what stats (if any) are being increased, and what class-based decisions am I making? (new spells learned, expertise, etc.)

[Toadkiller]

I’ve done a mix of planning and the reactive process described above. In that I have had a general idea of what I wanted (ranged fighter, controller, etc) but sometimes it has gone in unexpected ways based on events. It’s fun (for me) to have that reaction to events.

Had a fairly vapid character end up with a level of favored soul, fluffed as a religious conversion with much zeal.

[Kane0]

I do it all in my head. I used to do the full character plan as part of my character's excel sheet for 3.PF and i'm so glad that isn't necessary anymore.

There has been a handful of times the plan has changed midgame, most notably when a tiefling monk I had took a level in cleric entirely due to in-game events.

[Officer Joy]

I do it in Word, I make my own character sheath that has room for featues it has. And I write in brackets the lvl i get it at.

[Provo]

I mostly just plan in my head.

One tactic I use though is to plan my character at lvl 5, lvl 8, and lvl 12.

-Lvl 5 because that is the early game power bump. You want to feel like your character is running smoothly (in terms of mechanics) at that point.

-Lvl 8 because if you are multiclassing, you can have a lvl 5 class plus a lvl 3 archetype. You should have all your character defining abilities by now.

-Lvl 12 because that's about how long most characters seem to last. You want a character that it can feel satisfying to retire at this point.

If my character seems satisfying at each step, I know I will enjoy playing them. If one of the steps feels off, then I will want some rework.

[Sorlock Master]

For the first time here with spell choices and the idea of multi-classing in the back of my head I have used a spreadsheet (I love Excel) to project what my level 5 Bard's abilities will be at level 6 then more interestingly 7 if I multi-class.

How do you all do it? Just on the character sheet? Do you all play so much you can do it in your heads? On a phone app maybe?

I relentlessly lurk forums till all the info is up there then just kick it around. Like a Moon Druid/Totem Barbarian. Get AC = to Dex and Con of Forms then rage when ypu cpme out of form. Super tanky espically with Boots of Haste.

[furby076]

I use herolabs and just level up with different combinations. I see asis, hp, skills, spells, abilities, gear etc. All math is done for me

[Waterdeep Merch]

I hadn't really noticed until you pointed it out just now, but I don't stat out future levels anymore. I was too new in 2e to really plan much, but in 3.x, I'd have sheets prepared that showed me at levels 1, 5, 11, 17, and 20. And possibly more if it was a particularly complicated build. In 4e, I'd have two per tier alongside the first level for 7 different versions of the same character.

Huh.

[prototype00]

Scratch paper and a pen, Rulebooks opened to one side.

As our forefathers did it.

[Sigreid]

I hadn't really noticed until you pointed it out just now, but I don't stat out future levels anymore. I was too new in 2e to really plan much, but in 3.x, I'd have sheets prepared that showed me at levels 1, 5, 11, 17, and 20. And possibly more if it was a particularly complicated build. In 4e, I'd have two per tier alongside the first level for 7 different versions of the same character.

Huh.

Yeah, but in 3.x you could easily make one mistake early in your build that seemed cool at the time that would prevent you from ever getting to the cool thing you wanted at the end.

[Beelzebubba]

I use the Clean Sheet on ENWorld. It's a PDF that calculates just about everything.

It has plenty of space to make notes and play around.

[Beelzebubba]

Yeah, but in 3.x you could easily make one mistake early in your build that seemed cool at the time that would prevent you from ever getting to the cool thing you wanted at the end.

5.x is way, way simpler. I don't see much chance of this now.

[Chugger]

Scratch paper and a pen, Rulebooks opened to one side.

As our forefathers did it.

Exactly.

If you go into this spontaneously and dip here and dip there and ... you'll just end up weak and scattered and ultimately unhappy with the product - because you're just not as good to the party as you could be. Now sure, only optimizing = a cold, soulless character who can get boring. But I've already seen players who have locked into bad choices really regretting it - because they can't shine like they want to in battle (mostly - in some cases they lack options in social situations).

You've got to understand what not getting that multi-attack does to you. Or other ways to get a multi-attack (like sorcadin that's pal2/sorcx - a little weak til you get sorc levels up but then you can multi-attack by twinning the cantrip booming blade - something like this has to be well panned - and you have to have a sense of how many times a day you can twin and so on while leaving sorc pts / slots for the other things you need, like spells and div smite).

Let's say you go Lock 3 to get Tome so you can use Shillelagh to melee off your Cha stat for that synergy - which is very cool - but how are you going to get multi-attack now? Because on the Lock path you just took (tome), you cut yourself off from multi attack - you needed to have pact of blade to multi at 5, but that locks you into being MAD - i.e. you need to up CHA and your battle stat (str or dex) - but you can't up both until very high lvls. You cal go Pal 5 but don't get multi until overall lvl of 8 - and - wait - you forgot to go str 13 or more and can't go Pal (multi-class rules) - but okay, you have good enough dex to go fighter and can get multi attack that way (but you don't get the cha synergy or divine smite you wanted off pal). You have to get to those high lvls having made a tough choice, being caster strong or melee strong. And if you're not melee strong, why did you opt for meleeing lock in the first place? See how it can get you? I mean, it's not like this path is "broken" or anything, I don't think it is. But if you don't plan out and really really understand the nuances and the gotcha-traps in the rules, you're going to find yourself having committed deeply to a path and then that humiliating, awful moment when the DM says, "Wait a minute - you're doing what? ... No, I'm sorry, that's not how the rules work. You can only do this over here, not all that stuff you said you could do." And your house of cards comes tumbling down. All that work for nothing or worse than nothing -you're stuck with a horribly gimped character possibly.

Stick with simple classes and just have fun with basic progression trees until you really understand how to pull off more sophisticated builds (I'm still doing simple classes - I'm still learning myself - but I've learned enough to respect the fact that the harder multi-combos require knowledge and planning).

[hymer]

I usually stay singleclassed, so my planning is usually about ASIs and feats. For those, i usually make a list of priorities, usually mental but not always, and then decide finally on each as I get to them.

When I do multiclass, I always plan in advance exactly what levels will go in what class, and then I have a much tighter ASI/feat advancement scheme. Then I write it down and stick to it maybe 85% of the time.

I never plan on getting specific magical items.

[Provo]

Now sure, only optimizing = a cold, soulless character who can get boring. But I've already seen players who have locked into bad choices really regretting it -

Yeah, I had a character take polearm master, and then use polearms for only two levels.

Even ignoring optimization, it is upsetting to have a wasted choice.

[ZorroGames]

Scratch paper and a pen, Rulebooks opened to one side.

As our forefathers did it.

I use a pencil with eraser but otherwise this.

Coming from OD&D/AD&D/1st my highest level current character is 5th level Mountain Dwarf Monk (my first character and my first "experiment") and all the others that I have played in stand alone modules, and now the ToA campaign, are all first tier.

I see myself as still learning the ropes of the Cleric, Fighter, Ranger, and Monk classes. I list ASI/Feats and plan them around my perceived personality. No Mountain Dwarf of mine will ever have a Scottish accent! As my character's personality and skills evolve I plan to review my suggested choices when I level up. I spend a fair amount of time creating their back story (the Moutain Dwarf Dankil clan doesn't exist in the minds of most NPC mountain dwarfs because of the stain of Draconic Sorcery in their bloodline and how it was obtained.)

My Variant Humans so far are citizens of Port Nyanzaru so that influences their characteristics.

So far I like them all, optimized or not (like the Urchin background Ranger.)

[Azgeroth]

first,
mentally conceptualize the character.
(very loose, ill pick a race and class based on a roll or character concept)

second,
whip out the phb, open the phb in pdf, open a character sheet in pdf, open notepad.

start with the default 15 14 13 12 10 8 stats, lay them out across abilities with abilities of chosen race..
examine how effective it is at the concept and roll in general.

i always at this point, pick at least one more race, and do the stat balance again for comparison,

then i do the point buy method for stats, for both races, and then decide on a final ability score layout
(through the second phase, i may change the general concept or class to fit the roll i'm aiming for)

with race, class, and abilities locked down, i go for background, i almost always custom build a background but i start with the standards for inspiration then tailor for the concept (skill synergy).

last, i decide what feats or ASI i want, then decide the order they should come in.

i.e. i always spend 4th lvl ASI in bumping the major stat. second is usually a feat, then max main stat, then feat(s) secondary ASI's


in practise, i pretty much always deviate from my original plan, but only when i get to level 8+ unless the campaign/character is turning out in such a way that i dip a level somewhere to better flesh out the concept.


in short, think up what you want to play, stat out for lvl1, plan to lvl 12, dont take it as gospel..

[JPicasso]

Planning a character out, in order to not make a "mistake" is one of the reasons I never liked 3.5, and perhaps why I like 5th so much.

I usually start with a cool mini, or a picture from the internet and take it as how I want my character to "be" around 3rd or 4th level.
I stat, and pencil in an archetype.
Then I work towards that, acquiring gear and personality that matches the character I have imagined.
At 4th level, I'm usually weighing the "is this cool?" factor of taking a feat or ASI.

Sadly, I haven't played much beyond that with a single character. I'm DMing these days, but that's how my players seem to be doing it also.

Someone else mentioned the bit about not planning b/c you never know how things are going to go with the actual game, I think that's important. Until you've spent time with the core party members, you won't know where you can be most helpful and get the most out of your choices. Are you better off taking feats/spells that bolster your team members? Are you best at the front line, tanking and protecting the spell casters? Are your spells best used for holding off enemies, so your front line can take care of the biggest threats, or perhaps you're best with spike damage spells, and some weapon training to defend yourself?
It's all situational to the party and how the DM runs the game.

[mephnick]

As a single class character I usually go with the flow a little bit. The rogue I'm playing now I'm not actually sure what I'm taking at level 4 (took Mobile at 1) because I don't actually need anything to compete. It's a weird feeling coming from 3.5

Multiclass I plan pretty specifically.

[jas61292]

I don't plan.

Sure, I have ideas in my head, and sometimes I think I know what I want well before game. But, the idea that you need to plan just doesn't pan out in reality. In fact, I'd argue that pre-planing can only make you weaker, as, unless you play in a white room vacuum, what is and is not helpful for you in a given campaign is something you will never know for sure until you hit that experience threshold and have to level up.

I once played a battlemaster fighter that I was sure I was going to max out his Dex before anything else. But when it got time to level up and get that first ASI, I nabbed Magic Initiate instead, and I was never disappointed with that choice, because it was made with knowledge of the campaign in mind.

[UrielAwakened]

5e characters aren't really so complex that I need to write anything down.

In 3.5 or 4e I always had a document of my build but in 5e I can just kind of remember it. There aren't that many choices, even for spellcasters.

The only thing I ever struggle with is when to dip into the multiclass aspects of it.

[Zyzzyva]

When the DM says "everybody gets 1000 XP" and that takes me over the line for the next level, I pop open my PHB and see what cool new stuff I get at this level.

I did that in 3.5 too.

[Beelzebubba]

I did a bunch of experiments with my Land Druid to see if a feat 'tree' or some multiclass dips would work.

I realized each individual feat really wasn't that big of a deal, and the class is already so bloody flexible that I don't need to add any more abilities. It's really best to pump Wisdom and Concentration to make the spells I already get are more fun when they work better. So, I'm focusing on ASI's, War Caster, and Resilient, and I'll grab one 'character uniqueness' feat like Alert or Observant at most.

[Theodoxus]

I use HeroLabs as well.. I have a general idea of where I want a character to go, but allow for party makeup and changes to help drive the finished product.

One thing I do 'in advance' is spell changes for my Bard. I have it plotted out to 20, though I recognize that changes to the party might affect my choices... but so far, that hasn't happened yet - 1st -> 5th level.

[Varlon]

I use a pencil with eraser but otherwise this.

Same here - except I also think ahead of time about how much planning is necessary in the first place. My first character is a single-classed monk, no planning necessary. The second, my archer, I decided to mess around with multiclassing, but intentionally chose to wing it, so I went Rogue 1, then Fighter 1, and have basically been zig-zagging between those two picking up whatever seems most useful in the moment, and it's worked out quite well. My newest character is a warlock with a potential sorcerer dip, and that's when I really busted out the pencil to track invocations, spell progression, etc.

[alchahest]

I'll plan ahead if there's things I want to do in particular, and if there's a certain way I want to progress. for example, my current High elf eldritch knight I wanted to be very teleporty, but wanted it to be something she gains through exploring her innate powers and her training as she's got Eladrin heritage, so I took the elf teleportation racial feat from UA prior to level 15, where I gained the ability to teleport when I action surge, so it is a bit of a flow from learning to unlcok the capability to being able to use it as a non-action once per rest.

[Chugger]

Most of 5e is simple and requires only a little planning or thinking ahead. If you're a fighter or ranger archer, that 2 dip into Rogue to get Cunning Action and 1d6 of sneak attack is a no brainer - except where to take it? Do you want your first multi attack before the dip? But at fi 6 you get an ASI. And at Fi 8 you get an asi. Not quite as simple as some might make out.

What becomes mind-boggling are the potentially very powerful combos like sorcadin and lock-anything, where you actually _must_ plan or get very lucky. Sorcadin is the easiest* if you're just going to go Pal 6 or Pal 7 to get aura and resist, say - and then Sor after that to get better slots and spells and meta. But you're not really going to shine til lvl 10 overall or so. You need to understand that (but it won't be like you're nothing til then - but it is a commitment to greater power later on). Again, like I said above, Lock has two sets of 3 basic paths or choices, each of which commit you to something different - the main ones being the pact. The only way to get second attack as a lock is via pact of the blade. But using shillelagh w/ a Cha mod for to hit and damage is great - but you have to go some other path (Pal or Fi or Rang) to get a second attack - and you have to go 5 levels into it. But lock 3 is one level away from lock 4 - if you do lock first do you not take that asi and go into say Pal right after lock 3? Or do you start pal or fi? You're gimped w/out str - but could go dex - but you need 13 str to dip Pal - so it gets twisted and complex and messy fast. So when other people say they don't plan - that's cool, they're fine - and many character paths can be achieved just fine with no planning (especially if you don't multi) - but not all 5e paths can just be blundered into.

(* sorcadin is not easy if you just wanna go pal 2 and wanna rely on meta magic and scag cantrips like booming blade or green flame blade to get an extra attack - but you have to know what you're doing. You can twin bb but not gfb, for example. But if 2 enemy are close to each other, gfb is better - and you can quicken it. And that's a whole nuther mechanic that can screw you if you don't understand it - how using a cantrip (even if it looks much like a melee attack) is _not_ using the Attack action and changes what you can do as a bonus action - or whether or not you can take a second attack on your action (unless EK, say, with that war caster ability, you typically can't - unless you're a sorcadin w/ enough spell points - then in theory (I think) you could quicken gfb and cast that as your bonus action - which is a melee attack +1d8 on target plus 1d8+cha bonus to a second attack w/in 5' ... and I think you could then _twin_ booming blade for your action (meaning you're casting two cantrips for your turn, which is cool) - meaning two melee attacks each at +1d8 damage to your main target (+2d8 if it moves w/in a turn - but not 4d8, that part doesn't stack) - and it would be higher at lvl 11 and so on. But you can't be, say, a normal Paladin and take magic initiate to get these cantrips - and then cast GFB on your first melee attack and then cast it again on your second melee attack - because it's really a spell and not a melee attack - it's a spell that uses a melee attack as its somatic component, if that makes sense. Now the good news is that you can play a straight, non-multi character picking normal easy-to-grasp feats or just up the right stat on asi levels and you'll be fine - and you can have a great time and be powerful and kill monsters and not have to understand any of this. It depends on what you want and what is fun for you - and whether or not you can take all this "schoolwork" to understand these other features. If that's brain candy for you, more power to you then. If not - if you can't or don't want to do it - you'll be happy and fine with normal paths in 5e - so that's good news. 5e is that flexible.

[Strangways]

For the first time here with spell choices and the idea of multi-classing in the back of my head I have used a spreadsheet (I love Excel) to project what my level 5 Bard's abilities will be at level 6 then more interestingly 7 if I multi-class.

How do you all do it? Just on the character sheet? Do you all play so much you can do it in your heads? On a phone app maybe?

Generally I start with pen and paper, totally free form. If the character gets complicated, then I may go to a spreadsheet. Generally I want to make sure that I'm going to end up with all the skills and feats I want. I don't generally like multi-classing, but for a mult-class character I suppose I'd also want to make sure that I'm selecting the right levels at the right time (e.g. for a warlock/sorc should you take the warlock level first or the sorc level first?).

I'm looking forward to the recently announced, but not yet implemented feature in D&D Beyond to do this sort of future hypothetical leveling in their character sheets. So you can have a level 1 character, then generate a separate character sheet for that character at a higher level, just to experiment with various option choices, to see how your character might look at that higher level.

[scalyfreak]

Plan? I'm supposed to plan that?

Like others have said, I keep a clear idea of where I want to take the character firmly in mind. Then I change everything as soon as I gain a level, and just do what I think will work best in the campaign.

[90sMusic]

I have played this game so much that I have a stable full of my favorite characters and I tend to use one of them for new games I play in, unless I have a reason or particular motivation to make something new for the setting.

So these well worn characters of mine already have progression paths from 1 to 20 with IAS's, feats, spells, and all that already picked up in advance.

But naturally, depending on what is going on in the party, I may shift gears a bit and go slightly different route or sub out certain feats or spells. Just depends how things are going and if the group needs a particular role filled.

[samcifer]

This may sound silly, but for 5e I find that not planning out your level ups is more enjoyable and more helpful to the game as a whole. Rather than trying to plan out "how is my character going to get stronger?" I instead ask "What has my character been doing in the campaign so far, and what do I need and/or want to improve under those? As an example: I an currently playing a tiefling druid that is at lvl 5. At level 1 I had already planned out all of my ability score increases, or so I thought. Through play I am finding that it would be far more valuable for me to take the skilled feat at level 8 to become proficient in skills that I am repeatedly using but do not have proficiency in. Now, maybe it's different for multi-classing (With the character I mentioned I have NO intention of multi-classing) but I would ask myself what I wanted as a player when the level up came. Would I rather have this level in another class now, later, or never? How badly do I want these abilities? That sort of thing.

Now, for actual planning techniques, what I did in 3.5 whenever I had a character that needed multiple classes was I actually just used a .txt file (notepad++ or similar). Have your characters current stats at the top, and then on each line below your base stats mark the following: what class am I taking, what feat (if any) am I gaining, what stats (if any) are being increased, and what class-based decisions am I making? (new spells learned, expertise, etc.)

Since I'm playing a sorcerer, I kind of have to plan out my spell list and metamagic choices to ensure they're compatible. IOf I don't, I'll end up with a build that won't work well.

To answer the question, though, 1 level of sorc, then 2 of warlock, then back to sorc for the rest. lv. 3 warlock doesn't really interest me as none of the lv. 3 options seem appealing to me.

[alchahest]

Plan? I'm supposed to plan that?

Like others have said, I keep a clear idea of where I want to take the character firmly in mind. Then I change everything as soon as I gain a level, and just do what I think will work best in the campaign.


you're not supposed to plan it. some people do. some people plan every single level, others just plan certain levels, some don't plan at all, we all have good fun.

[Strangways]

Since I'm playing a sorcerer, I kind of have to plan out my spell list and metamagic choices to ensure they're compatible. IOf I don't, I'll end up with a build that won't work well.

To answer the question, though, 1 level of sorc, then 2 of warlock, then back to sorc for the rest. lv. 3 warlock doesn't really interest me as none of the lv. 3 options seem appealing to me.

Sorcerer is actually a good example of where planning is necessary. They get so few spells, they need to think long and hard about which ones to take and which to forego.

[furby076]

Its funny... people treat the word "plan" like its a bad thing. 5e is a lot simpler for sure. Nothing like the rigorous feat tree needed in 3.5 (dervish anyone)... but man, nothing wrong with planning.... we ALL do it. Some go to more detail, but we all do it. Right when we start envisioning our new character, their back story and what we want them to do beyond level 1.

Its fine...take a breath. I promise you wont lose street cred for planning, and you certainly wont get any for saying you dont plan,

I plan and play with my character because its fun to waste time between sessions. Btw, im a core paladin, and have no plans to MC. ..not even a single dip in sorc. Pam, sentinal and then just be the wall my group needs me to be. I am their shield and their guardian

[prototype00]

Its funny... people treat the word "plan" like its a bad thing. 5e is a lot simpler for sure. Nothing like the rigorous feat tree needed in 3.5 (dervish anyone)... but man, nothing wrong with planning.... we ALL do it. Some go to more detail, but we all do it. Right when we start envisioning our new character, their back story and what we want them to do beyond level 1.

Its fine...take a breath. I promise you wont lose street cred for planning, and you certainly wont get any for saying you dont plan,

I plan and play with my character because its fun to waste time between sessions. Btw, im a core paladin, and have no plans to MC. ..not even a single dip in sorc. Pam, sentinal and then just be the wall my group needs me to be. I am their shield and their guardian

Just as how some people think having "organic" on the price tag makes for a better carrot, so the same with characters/gaming experience, I guess.

I personally don't buy it (with regards to both characters and carrots) but whatever helps you sleep better at night. (Hmm I wonder if people who buy organic also like trusting the winds of fate for their characters...)

[scalyfreak]

you're not supposed to plan it. some people do. some people plan every single level, others just plan certain levels, some don't plan at all, we all have good fun.

Yeah, that was meant as a joke. My bad for not making that obvious.

[Hrugner]

Like many here, I don't bother in 5e. In 3.x I have a number 1-20 builds waiting to be played and enjoy spending time building far more than I could ever realistically play. With 5e it's more a note saying what to grab from what classes and feeling out the DM to figure out how they're going to run things before committing to anything.

[imanidiot]

I build characters backwards. I start at level 20 and back them down to level 1. It gives me a plan so when I level up it only takes 5 minutes or so.

This is my current character's level progression

Level HP Bonus Feature
1st 13 +2 Fighting Style - Dueling, Second Wind, Heavy Armor Master
2nd 22 +2 Action Surge (one use)
3rd 31 +2 Improved Critical
4th 40 +2 Shield Master
5th 49 +3 Extra Attack
6th 58 +3 +2 Strength
7th 67 +3 Remarkble Athlete
8th 76 +3 Brawny
9th 85 +4 Indomitable (one use)
10th 94 +4 Fighting Style - Great weapon
11th 103 +4 Extra Attack (2)
12th 112 +4 Great Weapon Master
13th 121 +5 Indomitable (two uses)
14th 130 +5 Sentinel
15th 139 +5 Superior Critical
16th 148 +5 Alert
17th 157 +6 Action Surge (two uses), Indomitable (three uses)
18th 166 +6 Survivor
19th 175 +6 Magic Initiate - Warlock
20th 184 +6 Extra Attack (3)

You can see at level 10 and 12 where I had to change the plan midway through because of events in the campaign.

[Maxilian]

I get the concept and then i work with "How can i make this fun concept don't bite my ass by being ****? Oh just to be Ok i need to MC in certain points" -Like after getting Multiattack in martials or by getting something that scale regardless of class (Eldrith Blast) and having in mind my ASIS (what i need -as if a build is quite MAD, i may have to plan it better to make sure i don't feel like i have a "bad" character or that i'm just the sidekick of another player -Unless the sidekick thing was the whole point-)