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Eric Diaz

2017-09-24, 09:51 PM

So I've made some house rules for Dark Sun 5e and I'm posting it here for more feedback. I'm transcribing the whole thing to avoid spamming my blog (the link is int he sig anyway).

It is not new classes, backgrounds, etc.; just small fixes and re-skins you can use with the stuff we already have. Most importantly, I haven't used psionics rules and classes in the UA. This is a somewhat minimalist approach: I added the smallest number of rules tweaks that I could.

Let me know what you think and if there is any balance issues, etc.

No armor!

The fluff: who would use armor in the scorching heat of the desert? Gladiators, templars and city guards wear armor, but since you cannot really travel, sleep of even fight in armor in the desert without being exhausted, most are able to fight without armor.

The crunch: anyone can trade their medium armor proficiency for the monk's Unarmored Defense or their heavy armor proficiency for the barbarian's Unarmored Defense. Unarmored Defense can also be taken as a feat (and you get +1 to Wisdom or Constitution if take it), but only by certain classes (as a general rule, you can take the first if you're proficient in light armor and the second if you're proficient in medium armor).

I am tempted to make a Charisma version for Chainmail bikinis and loincloths, but nobody wants that, right? Right?

No rest!

The fluff: the wastelands of Athas are no place for idleness. Days are hot and nights are cold (or warm, I dunno). Sure, you are familiar enough with the desert - otherwise you would be dead - but if you need rest, you better look for shelter.

The crunch: if you are in the desert or a similar wasteland (and that includes jungles, etc.), the grittier rules in the DMG for short/long rests apply (a whole day doing nothing may grant you a long rest if you can find a tent, food, etc). Look for a city or oasis if you want better healing (this actually solves a lot of problems). Those ruins are looking quite inviting, aren't they?

No food and no drink!

The fluff: food and water are scarce.

The crunch: we will use starvation and dehydration rules that actually make sense. Also, finding food and water is twice as hard. This applies to everything: spells, class features, backgrounds, etc. Interpretation is up to the GM.

No easy magic!

The fluff: magic is rare in Athas. There is no petty magic. You're either a defiler, a preserver or you're not a true spellcaster. Everything else gets re-fluffed as supernatural or psionic abilities.

The crunch: that thing in 5e where everyone has spells no longer apply. As a rule of thumb, if you actually have spell slots, you can be a defiler or preserver. Otherwise, your powers come from something else. Monks (if you allow those in Dark Sun) and barbarians, for example, create supernatural effects with inner strength, psionics or experience.

No balance!

The fluff: there are two types of spellcasters: defilers and preservers. The difference is that defilers destroy all around them in order to cast spells, while preservers don't. Common people cannot tell the difference and hate them all. Most spellcasters can use magic both ways, but choose one path over another. Also, defiling is plain better. That is the temptation.

The crunch: when you use defiling magic, you cast spells as if they were one level higher. You also need to roll on a random table to see what effects you cause. Here are some ideas. All negative effects can be avoided by a saving throw (damage and HP loss are halved, not avoided).

1 - Desolation - flora and small fauna wither and die around the spellcaster.
2 - Destruction - people around the spellcaster suffer necrotic damage equal to spell level.
3 - Confusion - spell gets out of control and affects another random target.
4 - Exhaustion - spellcaster gains exhaustion. Nobody said it was easy!
5 - Inspiration - the next time the spellcaster casts a spell, he can pick any result from this table (except for this one!).
6 - Mutation - the spellcaster becomes permanently warped (it can be cured... probably).
7 - Exsanguination - the spellcaster loses 2 HP per spell level.
8 - Transfiguration - the spellcaster becomes something else for a while. It might be just cosmetic. Black eyes, etc. It is very unsettling and will draw ire from the superstitious.
9 - Provocation - sleeping creatures might wake, the half-dead may rise, or hungry monster will hear a calling.
10 - Demolition - objects break and structures fail around the spellcaster.
11 - Extortion - the spellcaster gains 2 HP per spell level. A amount of damage eqaul to the total is randomly distributed to nearby people.
12 - Putrefaction - food and water are ruined.

Note: I've decided to make it random to add more variety than the standard 2e table, but on a second thought it might be TOO random, and certainly overlaps with wild magic thematically

No gods! No healing!

The fluff: the burned world of Athas is, quite literally, a godforsaken place. Did the gods abandon the people of Athas, or was it the other way around? Doesn't matter anymore. There is no one to hear your prayers, no one to bind your wounds, and no one save your soul.

The crunch: there are no active deities in Athas, but, traditionally, Dark Sun allows the sorcerer-kings and the elements to be worshiped instead of actual gods, so you still have cleric-like classes. The main difference is that healing magic is uncommon in Athas. The easiest way to do that is to ban healing magic from the spell lists (trade them for something appropriate), and disallow some features that restores hit points ("lay on hands", etc.). Using the "healing surges" option in the DMG (page 266) is a good idea to balance things out. Any optional rule to raise an stabilized characters to 1 HP after combat would also be useful (just make a DC 10 medicine check or use a healing kit, as long as you're not in combat).

No class!

The fluff: as you might have guessed, some classes don't make much sense in Dark Sun. Traditional clerics and paladins do not fit. Sorcerers, warlocks, and druids must also be adapted to the setting. Some races simply do not exist.

The crunch: personally, I don't like banning classes outright. Warlocks make decent templars, and clerics can worship the elements with the appropriate domains. Sorcerers feel a bit redundant to me, and wild magic is certainly too much if you're using random defilement rules (although you can certainly consolidate one single table and create a new "pure defiler" class from there). Monks make some sense thematically (unless you're using the mystic), although there were banned in 2e Dark Sun. Even paladins can be refluffed as templars, ascended champions of the sorcerers kings (I love the idea of a paladin of vengeance gaining dragon wings or causing necrotic damage whit lay on hands!), or even inspired zealots of forgotten gods. Druids must choose appropriate animals; bards might be assassins with an adequate background. There are enough choices an options to fill a whole book on the subject. Fortunately, there are already some good ideas online. Here is one example.

No races!

The fluff: the original version of Dark Sun forbids some of the traditional races and introduces new ones - some of which aren't available in 5e.

The crunch: you can always re-fluff the the races like you did with the classes, but some options will be inadequate, especially the ones that can cast spells by default. You have enough races in 5e to cover most of the races that are characteristic of Athas: Aarakocra are already oficial, you can use goliaths for half-giants, some variations of dwarf (or orcs!) for muls, etc. The Thri-kreen are trickier, but not much: natural armor, claws, reduced sleep, etc. already exist in the official races. As for the extra arms, my favorite option is saying they can do whatever they want with the extra armas, but no extra actions! A two-handed weapon with a shield and a crossbow? Sword and board AND torch AND knife? Sure, why not!

No metal!

The fluff: Dark Sun is the most metal of all D&D settings, but actual metal is scarce in Athas. This means most weapons are made of obsidian, bone and flint. It also means the may break.

The crunch: coming up with an elegant solution that doesn't penalize fighters with multiple attacks is not easy, but there are a few options. My favorite is that some weapons (slashing and piercing) can break if you roll a natural 20 AND deal maximum damage in the first two dice. This makes breakage rare, but creates some tension when you roll a natural 20.
For example, if you're attacking with a 1d8 weapon, a critical hit would let you roll 2d8; if you roll 8 on both dice (16 damage), the weapon breaks from the impact. Greatswords break if you roll 6 in the first two dice (ordinarily, you roll 4d6 when you crit with a greatsword).
Making metal coins 50 to 100 scarcer also creates interesting situations; now the "price" column in the weapons section finally means something, and you have good reason to use a greataxe or maul.
I also did "no armor" in the first post, but if you want armor just make it heavier and more expensive. Encumbrance becomes relevant again - specially when you notice you will die of thirst before reaching the next city.
High level warriors should get their hands on magical or iron weapons, but there should be other ways of fixing weapons (the mending cantrip, artisan’s tools, etc).

No psionics! No psionics?!?

The fluff: psionics are extremely common in Dark Sun, across all races and classes.... and even in animals and plants! On the other hand, psionics are extremely uncommon in 5e.

The crunch: this is the toughest one. 5e's psionics system is unfinished; all we have are a few classes in the Unearthed Arcana (i.e., playtest material). Which isn't nearly enough for a setting where everybody can have psionic powers. The simplest solution here is spells. Not the most elegant or creative way out, but it is the one the Monster Manual officially uses. And 5e is full of magic by default. So, psionics is (mechanically) just magic with no components and no possibility of defiling. There are other subtle differences: psionics are probably invisible, for example. The "spell list" for psionics should be significantly shorter, and "full caster" classes should be reserved for actual magic. All characters start with a random (psionic) cantrip. Again, not the fanciest solution - but it will do until WotC releases official material for 5e.

No rules!
I admit - this is rule #11 in a top ten list, and feels out of place in a list of, well... rules. But it might be the most important one. I do not treat anything in Dark Sun as canon, mostly because not all Dark Sun canon is good. Back in the day, I used to think the characters in the books did all the cool stuff, so there was little left for the PCs to do. 4e did a decent reboot, but I am not a fan of eladrin in Athas, among other things.
Another reasons is that I like to add stuff from other sources: Tékumel, Carcosa, Zothique, etc. Talislanta is a cool source that I failed to mention (the thralls, pictured above, are more interesting than the muls in some aspects), but any source that works for you is fair game.
In short, my favorite version of 5e is the one I fix - and my favorite version of Dark Sun is the one I make.

Quoxis

2017-09-25, 05:31 AM

hymer

2017-09-25, 06:13 AM

Some thoughts:

No armor!

The fluff: who would use armor in the scorching heat of the desert? Gladiators, templars and city guards wear armor, but since you cannot really travel, sleep of even fight in armor in the desert without being exhausted, most are able to fight without armor.

Isn't the fluff here simply that metal is very scarce, and using so much you can make a whole suit of clothes is impossible for most, and a bad use of resources for the rest?

The crunch: anyone can trade their medium armor proficiency for the monk's Unarmored Defense or their heavy armor proficiency for the barbarian's Unarmored Defense. Unarmored Defense can also be taken as a feat (and you get +1 to Wisdom or Constitution if take it), but only by certain classes (as a general rule, you can take the first if you're proficient in light armor and the second if you're proficient in medium armor).

I am tempted to make a Charisma version for Chainmail bikinis and loincloths, but nobody wants that, right? Right?

Wis-based characters will find this very useful. For everyone else, it's the second grade use of con as your AC stat. The monk is balanced around needing dex and con as well as wis. Clerics and especially druids have different stat priorities, and their most powerful abilities are tied to wis.
A quick suggestion would be to let people use an AC calculation like this instead: AC = 10 + dex bonus + proficiency bonus, and let those who normally have heavy armor proficiency use AC = 10 + con bonus + proficiency bonus.

No metal!

The fluff: Dark Sun is the most metal of all D&D settings, but actual metal is scarce in Athas. This means most weapons are made of obsidian, bone and flint. It also means the may break.

The crunch: coming up with an elegant solution that doesn't penalize fighters with multiple attacks is not easy, but there are a few options. My favorite is that some weapons (slashing and piercing) can break if you roll a natural 20 AND deal maximum damage in the first two dice. This makes breakage rare, but creates some tension when you roll a natural 20.
For example, if you're attacking with a 1d8 weapon, a critical hit would let you roll 2d8; if you roll 8 on both dice (16 damage), the weapon breaks from the impact. Greatswords break if you roll 6 in the first two dice (ordinarily, you roll 4d6 when you crit with a greatsword).
Making metal coins 50 to 100 scarcer also creates interesting situations; now the "price" column in the weapons section finally means something, and you have good reason to use a greataxe or maul.
I also did "no armor" in the first post, but if you want armor just make it heavier and more expensive. Encumbrance becomes relevant again - specially when you notice you will die of thirst before reaching the next city.
High level warriors should get their hands on magical or iron weapons, but there should be other ways of fixing weapons (the mending cantrip, artisan’s tools, etc).

How about granting Inspiration to anyone whose weapon breaks in battle? That should compensate those who rely on weapons a little. Presumably they will try to keep backup weapons. You could also have magic have a similar problem; a small chance to 'break' your cantrip, as you run out of life energy to use in this battle. Defilers may be more prone to this problem than preservers.

Catullus64

2017-09-25, 08:47 AM

My experiences from running my own Dark Sun game in 5th Edition drew my attention to your ideas on defiling and preserving. While I would agree that defiling should, for thematic reasons, be objectively superior in terms of power to preserving, for the sake of simplicity I decided to approach it from the other angle: defiling uses the default spell casting rules, while preserving requires an (albeit relatively easy) ability check to pull of successively with every spell cast. Your system, while fun sounding, does also seem to require more bookkeeping, as well as stepping on the toes of Wild Magic Sorcerers a little bit. Also, since I really enforced people's general hatred of defiling magic, one of my players playing a spell caster complained that he never felt free to use his class features unfettered. I told him that that was the point, that this is a world where arcane spell casting has a steep price and that preserving is harder for the individual, but he was still unsatisfied. The takeaway is that you should make it abundantly clear to players that preserving magic will be weaker or more difficult, or they will feel cheated.

Eric Diaz

2017-09-25, 07:15 PM

The class thing:
Afaik (and correct me if i'm wrong) defiling in great quantities can mutate people into dragons, piece by piece, as it happened to some mad sorcerer-king who turned into THE dragon of the setting (again: afaik and iirc). I'm not saying PCs should become dragons, but the other way around: dragon sorcerers automatically defile, wild magic sorcerers can't be defilers (because of their deep instinctive usage of non-defiling magic they sometimes manage to get additional effects out of it, but sometimes it fails, like in the forgotten realms).
That way the redundancy of wild magic and defiling tables is reduced, and it'd make sense flavorwise.

Yeah, that is one interesting aspect of the setting I didn't go into; probably we should have a sliding scale of defiling, making the PC more powerful yet stranger.

Isn't the fluff here simply that metal is very scarce, and using so much you can make a whole suit of clothes is impossible for most, and a bad use of resources for the rest?

Well, kind of; I like the "too hot to wear armor" aspect.

Wis-based characters will find this very useful. For everyone else, it's the second grade use of con as your AC stat. The monk is balanced around needing dex and con as well as wis. Clerics and especially druids have different stat priorities, and their most powerful abilities are tied to wis.
A quick suggestion would be to let people use an AC calculation like this instead: AC = 10 + dex bonus + proficiency bonus, and let those who normally have heavy armor proficiency use AC = 10 + con bonus + proficiency bonus.

This is a good idea. Maybe STR would be another option *when using a shield), instead of CON, making a fighter's AC even better. But proficiency is a decent compromise, and better than at high levels.

How about granting Inspiration to anyone whose weapon breaks in battle? That should compensate those who rely on weapons a little. Presumably they will try to keep backup weapons. You could also have magic have a similar problem; a small chance to 'break' your cantrip, as you run out of life energy to use in this battle. Defilers may be more prone to this problem than preservers.

I'm not a fan of such "narrative" mechanics for D&D; otherwise, it seems like a good idea, but maybe one that could be exploited.

My experiences from running my own Dark Sun game in 5th Edition drew my attention to your ideas on defiling and preserving. While I would agree that defiling should, for thematic reasons, be objectively superior in terms of power to preserving, for the sake of simplicity I decided to approach it from the other angle: defiling uses the default spell casting rules, while preserving requires an (albeit relatively easy) ability check to pull of successively with every spell cast. Your system, while fun sounding, does also seem to require more bookkeeping, as well as stepping on the toes of Wild Magic Sorcerers a little bit. Also, since I really enforced people's general hatred of defiling magic, one of my players playing a spell caster complained that he never felt free to use his class features unfettered. I told him that that was the point, that this is a world where arcane spell casting has a steep price and that preserving is harder for the individual, but he was still unsatisfied. The takeaway is that you should make it abundantly clear to players that preserving magic will be weaker or more difficult, or they will feel cheated.

Yeah, makes sense. I don't like rolling to cast spells; I think to have wizards both hated AND casting as normal is too harsh on them, but I see how your system would make the world seem lower on magic, which is interesting for DS.

Saeviomage

2017-09-25, 07:32 PM

Well, kind of; I like the "too hot to wear armor" aspect.

The problem is that it's not really a thing. Once you're wearing leather armor, you're probably as hot as you are going to get.

There's also the fact that while your "get a defense ability instead" idea is an interesting one... it still means that strength based characters still have to pump both dex AND a tertiary stat in order to have a worthwhile AC, while dex based characters only have a single stat they need, dex.

I'd much rather an ability which said that you could substitute your strength for dex in AC calculations be handed out to all medium/heavy armor users. Call it "parry".

Eric Diaz

2017-09-25, 08:22 PM

The problem is that it's not really a thing. Once you're wearing leather armor, you're probably as hot as you are going to get.

There's also the fact that while your "get a defense ability instead" idea is an interesting one... it still means that strength based characters still have to pump both dex AND a tertiary stat in order to have a worthwhile AC, while dex based characters only have a single stat they need, dex.

I'd much rather an ability which said that you could substitute your strength for dex in AC calculations be handed out to all medium/heavy armor users. Call it "parry".

Well, I was thinking of people wearing NO armor, not even leather - like in DS art. But the STR idea is certainly a good one.

SaurOps

2017-09-25, 10:41 PM

Well, I was thinking of people wearing NO armor, not even leather - like in DS art. But the STR idea is certainly a good one.

"No armor at all" has never been a part of Dark Sun, even given the artwork (the lowest level of canon for most tabletop settings in general). It was generally piecemeal and not made of metal, but it did exist, and you could make an elaborate time out of customizing which pieces of armor you had on and then totalling up the final AC value.

Just assume that the people who weren't wearing any armor had just escaped and hadn't managed to get their hands on anything suitable at the time presented. You can't exactly keep the flesh armor psi power active all day long, even if you were lucky enough to get it as a wild talent.

furby076

2017-09-25, 11:24 PM

SaurOps

2017-09-25, 11:39 PM

Eric Diaz

2017-09-26, 12:18 AM

Well, if you plan in going down this route, then dont forget the serious stat boosts. In darksun everyone has outrageous stats. Break those 20 caps, and raise those minimum stats

For psionics, give everyone the equiv of magical adept...but it can be used for psionic powers. 1 talent, and 2 others. I wouldn't allow them to take any power that has a base cost of more than 1 psi point. If you can pump more into it, then that is fine. Maybe gain 2 psi point plus 1 per level

"No armor at all" has never been a part of Dark Sun, even given the artwork (the lowest level of canon for most tabletop settings in general). It was generally piecemeal and not made of metal, but it did exist, and you could make an elaborate time out of customizing which pieces of armor you had on and then totalling up the final AC value.

Just assume that the people who weren't wearing any armor had just escaped and hadn't managed to get their hands on anything suitable at the time presented. You can't exactly keep the flesh armor psi power active all day long, even if you were lucky enough to get it as a wild talent.

Overall, I'm more interested in flavor and 5e than being faithful to the original material.

I like the idea of piecemeal and lower quality armor, not sure about the implementation. The "parry" idea works really well, since a PC trained in heavy armor wouldn't make much use of DEX.

I might let PCs start on level 3, but personally wouldn't change abilities and might even tone down starting psionic powers.

Now, to really focus on psionics, a feat or whole class you can MC into are good ideas, but I wouldn't want to write a dozen new archetypes. TBH my players think 5e is almost too complicated as it is, so keeping complexity low is a necessity.

Using spells/cantrips as psionics is not the most elegant idea, but keeps complexity low (and is not uncommon in 5e).

At least until WotC publishes official rules for psionics...

GorogIrongut

2017-09-26, 05:19 AM

Thanks for putting this up EricDiaz as I was just talking with my party last night about wanting to use the Mystic Psionics and run Dark Sun.

Here's how I've tweaked it for my purposes if it's of any interest.

Dark Sun...!

No armor!

The Fluff: who would use armor in the scorching heat of the desert? Gladiators, templars and city guards wear armor, but since you cannot really travel, sleep of even fight in armor in the desert without being exhausted, most are able to fight without armor.

The Crunch:
medium armor proficiency = 10 + Dex Modifier + half proficiency bonus (rounded up)
heavy armor proficiency = 10 + Dex Modifier + proficiency

I am tempted to make a Charisma version for Chainmail bikinis and loincloths, but nobody wants that, right? Right?

Survival of the fittest!
The Fluff:
To survive in the ever changing, ever dangerous, consume your soul wastes of Athas, you have to be hard. Your parents were survivors and they raised you to be the eater and not the eatee. Everything has mad crazy stats.

The Crunch:
Stats are rolled using 4d6 + 2 lose one or 6d4 lose one.
The max stats are raised from 20 up to 24. Barbarians are raised to a 26 cap.

No rest!

The Fluff:
The wastelands of Athas are no place for idleness. Days are blistering and nights are frigid. Sure, you are familiar enough with the desert - otherwise you would be dead - but if you need rest, you better look for shelter.

The Crunch:
If you are in the desert or a similar wasteland/wilderness (and that includes jungles, etc.), the grittier rules in the DMG for short/long rests apply (a whole day doing nothing may grant you a long rest if you can find a tent, food, etc). Look for a city or oasis if you want better healing (this actually solves a lot of problems). Those ruins are looking quite inviting, aren't they?

No food and no drink!

The Fluff:
Food and water are scarce. It's why everything is viewed as potential food as there's not much of it around.

The Crunch:
We will use starvation and dehydration rules along with extreme environment rules from the DM's Guide.
Finding food and water is twice as hard. This applies to everything: spells, class features, backgrounds, etc. If I find a feature makes this too easy, then by DM fiat I will nerf it.
Encumbrance rules will be used and will lead easily to exhaustion.

No easy magic!

The Fluff:
Magic is rare in Athas. There is no petty magic. You're either a defiler, a preserver or you're not a spellcaster. Everything else gets re-fluffed as supernatural or psionic abilities.

The Crunch:
As a rule of thumb, if you actually have spell slots, you can be a defiler or preserver. Otherwise, your powers come from something else.
Monks (if you allow those in Dark Sun) and barbarians, for example, create supernatural effects with inner strength, psionics or experience.

No balance!

The Fluff:
There are two types of spellcasters: defilers and preservers. The difference is that defilers destroy all around them in order to cast spells, while preservers don't. Common people cannot tell the difference and hate them all. Most spellcasters can use magic both ways, but choose one path over another. Also, defiling is plain better. That is the temptation.

The Crunch:
When you use defiling magic, you cast spells as if they were one level higher. You also need to roll on a random table to see what effects you cause. Here are some ideas. All negative effects can be limited by a saving throw (damage and HP loss are halved, not avoided).

1 - Desolation - flora and small fauna wither and die around the spellcaster.
2 - Destruction - people around the spellcaster suffer necrotic damage equal to spell level.
3 - Confusion - spell gets out of control and affects another random target.
4 - Exhaustion - spellcaster gains exhaustion. Nobody said it was easy!
5 - Inspiration - the next time the spellcaster casts a spell, he can pick any result from this table (except for this one!).
6 - Mutation - the spellcaster becomes permanently warped (it can be cured... probably).
7 - Exsanguination - the spellcaster loses 2 HP per spell level.
8 - Transfiguration - the spellcaster becomes something else for a while. It might be just cosmetic. Black eyes, etc. It is very unsettling and will draw ire from the superstitious.
9 - Provocation - sleeping creatures might wake, the half-dead may rise, or hungry monster will hear a calling.
10 - Demolition - objects break and structures fail around the spellcaster.
11 - Extortion - the spellcaster gains 2 HP per spell level. A amount of damage eqaul to the total is randomly distributed to nearby people.
12 - Putrefaction - food and water are ruined.

No gods! No healing!

The Fluff:
The burned world of Athas is, quite literally, a godforsaken place. Did the gods abandon the people of Athas, or was it the other way around? Doesn't matter anymore. There is no one to hear your prayers, no one to bind your wounds, and no one save your soul except if you worship a Sorceror King and honestly, they're not that great with healing.

The Crunch:
There is no easily accessible healing magic in game. PC's do not get access to healing spells. Paladins don't get access to Lay on Hands. Anything that would return hit points is hit with a ban hammer. In exchange for this, you can use the healing surges found in the DMG. You also may want to invest some feats in being a healer and have healing kits on hand.

No class!

The Fluff: as you might have guessed, some classes don't make much sense in Dark Sun. Traditional clerics and paladins do not fit. Sorcerers, warlocks, and druids must also be adapted to the setting. Some races simply do not exist.

The Crunch:
Personally, I don't like banning classes outright. Druids must choose appropriate animals; bards might be assassins with an adequate background. There are enough choices an options to fill a whole book on the subject. Just remember there are HUGE negatives to being a spellcaster... and there's a very real chance that the effects of using Defiler magic will be amplified by the number of other spellcasters in the group (i.e. in close proximity). Dragon sorcerers automatically defile, wild magic sorcerers can't be defilers (because of their deep instinctive usage of non-defiling magic they sometimes manage to get additional effects out of it.

No races!

The fluff:
The original version of Dark Sun forbids some of the traditional races and introduces new ones - some of which aren't available in 5e.

The Crunch:
I'm less worried about adhering rigidly to the races of Athas. All I really care about is that they would be able to survive on the burnt husk of a post apocalyptic world that Athas is.
Any race that gains the ability to cast a spell as a spell will be banned. To gain access to them, you must beg , barter and plead with the DM... and be willing to accept the negative consequences that come from using magic. Other than the above all races are open for use.

No metal!

The Fluff:
Dark Sun is the most metal of all D&D settings, but actual metal is scarce in Athas. This means most weapons are made of obsidian, bone and flint. It also means they may break.

The Crunch:
Non metallic weapons break if you roll a natural 20 AND rolls max damage on atleast one of the damage dice.
High level warriors should get their hands on magical or iron weapons which are free from these breaking rules.
It's important to find ways of fixing weapons (the mending cantrip, artisan’s tools, etc).
Each non caster race counts as having the Tavern Brawler feat.

No psionics! No psionics?!?

The Fluff:
Psionics are extremely common in Dark Sun, across all races and classes.... and even in animals and plants!

The Crunch:
The psionics available from the Mystic class are now fully available. You can choose to be a mystic and get access to it as a class.
Those who don't are still psionic and get a less powerful version of those abilities that functions as the following.
4 psi points with a limit of 2 used for any one action. 1 psionic discipline. 2 psionic talents.

Welcome to Magic Emporium!

The Fluff:
Unless you're in a booming town (few and far between) or are a very close servant of a Sorceror King, getting access to magic items is pretty limited. That said, it's not impossible for you to encounter them in your travels. Dark Sun is all about harsh, visceral, dog eat dog living. And what's more cool about than that eating magic? or mutations?

The Crunch:
You can choose to channel your psionics down the path of mutations or the path of tattooing. You may only choose one of these paths and cannot mix and match.

Mutant options -
Every creature you encounter that you kill and eat has the possibility of granting you some of it's power. Upon consumption making a Constitution Saving Throw with disadvantage. Depending on the power of the mutation, you will face a higher DC Check set by the DM. If successful, you absorb a mutation and change physically. The DM will tell you how this new mutation tweaks your stats/abilities. If you fail, you have a 30m bout of indigestion (30m of one level of exhaustion). If you roll a 1 on the DC Check and fail then you lose your most recently added mutation as your body rejects the new mutation.

Mutants disdain the use of magic items. As such they will only attune to one magic item.

Psionic Tattoos-
All tattoos are adjuncts to the main, central Prime Tattoo that runs down your spine. This prime tattoo grants you access to a certain amount of Psionic Magic Items points. The way this is worked out is thusly.
Constitution Modifier (constantly changing with your constitution) * 20 (30 if you have chosen mystic as your class. If this Prime Tattoo has been inked using the blood/ichor/etc of a particularly potent animal then this calculation receives an additional modifier depending on the power of the beast (somewhere between 1.1 to 1.5x).
Once the Prime Tattoo has been etched into the skin of the player's character it can no longer be changed (so make sure you get all the bonuses you want by killing something nasty). All other tattoos connect to and are based off of the Prime. If the Prime is destroyed then all others cease working.
Magic items when converted to Tattoo's use up X amount of points as follows:
Uncommon: 15 to 25
Rare: 25 to 35
Very Rare: 35 to 45
Legendary: 50

If a player chooses to use magic items while also using Psionic Tattoos, then they do not become 'internalized' into the player's skin but they still use up the same amount of Magic Item Points and so the player has to have a Psionic Magic Item Points Total high enough to encompass all tattoos AND the point value of the magic item. Note this only counts for attuned magic items. Attunement for either a Mutant or a Psionic Tattooist is instantaneous.

It's up to the DM Discretion to allow a player to temporarily exceed this total. By doing so, the player would take Constitution Saving Throws per round. Failure grants the player a level of exhaustion due to the stress of controlling that much magic/psionics/power.

Eric Diaz

2017-09-26, 09:17 AM

Thanks for putting this up EricDiaz as I was just talking with my party last night about wanting to use the Mystic Psionics and run Dark Sun.

Here's how I've tweaked it for my purposes if it's of any interest.

You-re welcome! I'm glad you found it useful! Love your ideas about mutations and tattoos.

BTW, if you want easy rules of starvation/dehydration/exposure:

Characters who spend more than one week without food. one day without water, one hour under extreme weather (heat or cold) without adequate clothing, or one minute without air suffer the effects of exhaustion (see appendix A). After each of this periods, she suffers two levels of exhaustion (but a DC 15 Constitution saving throw will halve this effect).
Exhaustion caused by lack of food or water can’t be removed until the character spends a day eating (or drinking) the full required amount.

http://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com.br/2015/09/the-rule-of-three-easy-outdoor-survival.html

Saeviomage

2017-09-27, 07:28 PM

Characters who spend more than one week without food. one day without water, one hour under extreme weather (heat or cold) without adequate clothing, or one minute without air suffer the effects of exhaustion (see appendix A). After each of this periods, she suffers two levels of exhaustion (but a DC 15 Constitution saving throw will halve this effect).
Exhaustion caused by lack of food or water can’t be removed until the character spends a day eating (or drinking) the full required amount.

I feel like the length of time you can spend without food is way too long: if you make your saves, you don't need to eat for 2 months. Additionally there's zero penalty for not eating for short periods of time. It seems like you'd be better off with a rule that allowed a save against exhaustion at the half-way mark, then imposed exhaustion at the end of the period regardless.

And of course you can just eat once every 7th day and fend off starvation.

Unless you're modifying the DMG's ranges of temperature, you're suggesting that lots of people die after lying on the beach for 3 hours in 100F weather. That's just wrong. Conversely I would expect that marching for 8 hours in 100F weather in the wrong clothing would still result in some level of penalty.

Weirdly at the other end of the scale, I find it hard to believe that there's no penalties down to 0F, although I don't doubt that 3 hours of inappropriately clothed exposure at that temperature would have the capacity to be fatal.

I get that the DMG system isn't great... but this doesn't seem like much of an improvement.

Eric Diaz

2017-09-27, 09:14 PM

I feel like the length of time you can spend without food is way too long: if you make your saves, you don't need to eat for 2 months. Additionally there's zero penalty for not eating for short periods of time. It seems like you'd be better off with a rule that allowed a save against exhaustion at the half-way mark, then imposed exhaustion at the end of the period regardless.

First, thank you for the feedback!

Not 2 months, you would be dead in 6 weeks regardless (although is likely you die first; you have disadvantage in STs after a while).

Also, 5e RAW also has no penalty for a three days without eating unless you CON is negative. And the lack of food kills you in 10 days, which is too punishing.

But I agree about the rest. I know people that spent more than a couple of weeks fasting voluntarily, so I might have exaggerated here.

In my B/X clone I actually went with a 4 day period, DC 20 +1 for each additional test against the same hazard.

And of course you can just eat once every 7th day and fend off starvation.

That is actually what 5e does RAW ("A normal day of eating resets the count of days without food to zero.").

I mentioned that in the post I wrote before (well, it is a link within the link... in the first sentence, but yeah):

"The idea that after three days without food you can go "back to normal" by eating normally for a day is probably a mistake and, if you're weighting food at all, must be altered (or ignored) or there will be no reason to eat every day (unless "the full required amount" is meant to say the character must eat three days worth of food in day or something similar, which is doubtful). I would suggest removing the sentence and letting the GM deal with players that abuse the system."

Unless you're modifying the DMG's ranges of temperature, you're suggesting that lots of people die after lying on the beach for 3 hours in 100F weather. That's just wrong. Conversely I would expect that marching for 8 hours in 100F weather in the wrong clothing would still result in some level of penalty.

Weirdly at the other end of the scale, I find it hard to believe that there's no penalties down to 0F, although I don't doubt that 3 hours of inappropriately clothed exposure at that temperature would have the capacity to be fatal.

I didn't mention any temperatures or the DMG at all; I am thinking "extreme weather" here, but I could have been clearer.

I get that the DMG system isn't great... but this doesn't seem like much of an improvement.

I was writing about the PHB but... the system, RAW, is flat out wrong, unless you think your saves should affect dehydration but not starvation.

EDIT: just checked the DMG... it is not good, indeed.

SaurOps

2017-09-28, 12:39 AM

Overall, I'm more interested in flavor and 5e than being faithful to the original material.

What about setting cohesion? The Road Warrior folk on the front cover are going to be SOL when the sun sets and Athas goes from being very hot to near-freezing due to the same scarcity of water that makes it difficult to travel during the day. The flavor isn't "constant 24-7 oven" but "ruined world with precious oases that you can help or hurt", and if you travel and fight at night, you could absolutely wear metal armor.

GorogIrongut

2017-09-28, 03:05 AM

What about setting cohesion? The Road Warrior folk on the front cover are going to be SOL when the sun sets and Athas goes from being very hot to near-freezing due to the same scarcity of water that makes it difficult to travel during the day. The flavor isn't "constant 24-7 oven" but "ruined world with precious oases that you can help or hurt", and if you travel and fight at night, you could absolutely wear metal armor.

Ummmm... no. Metal absorbs/leeches heat from heat sources. During the day that would be from the searing orb in the sky which would then cause the wearer to overheat like mad. During the night, when things are frigid, it would start stealing heat from the person wearing it. Which in an already frigid environment could be very, very bad. The only way to get around it would be to have multiple layers of gambeson between you and the metallic parts of your armour. The problem would then be, who would carry around a set of armour for the evening and a set of non metallic armour for the day? You'd have to commit to having a pack animal to cart your stuff around (protect and feed it in this brutal environment), or to live a purely night time existence... which is feasible.

RedMage125

2017-09-28, 07:47 AM

SaurOps

2017-09-28, 11:31 AM

Ummmm... no. Metal absorbs/leeches heat from heat sources. During the day that would be from the searing orb in the sky which would then cause the wearer to overheat like mad. During the night, when things are frigid, it would start stealing heat from the person wearing it. Which in an already frigid environment could be very, very bad. The only way to get around it would be to have multiple layers of gambeson between you and the metallic parts of your armour. The problem would then be, who would carry around a set of armour for the evening and a set of non metallic armour for the day? You'd have to commit to having a pack animal to cart your stuff around (protect and feed it in this brutal environment), or to live a purely night time existence... which is feasible.

I was under the impression that metal armor could only really be used if you had thick padding underneath it. Else, it'd be more of a torture device than armor, even under the best of conditions. Also, if you do have metal armor, you're likely to be committed to strict nocturnal existence, trading easy sleep for metal. That, or you somehow have enough psionic energy to blow on maintaining resistance to extreme heat (which, going by the AL-legal mystic writeup, seems to be very, very easy in 5e). Clerics also got various environmental resistance powers along those lines.

M Placeholder

2017-09-28, 02:19 PM

Not exactly.

Defiling doesn't "turn people into dragons". The sorcerer-kings are all powerful defilers (they are the ORIGINAL defilers who ruined a green world), who are multiclassed arcane/psionic casters, AND they are gradually turning themselves into dragons. Some are farther along than others. A long time ago, there was another one of their fellowship, but he went through an accelerated version of the ritual, which drained more life out of the planet, turned him into a dragon, and drove him mad.

Thats true. In the 2e setting, Preservers can also defile by drawing too much energy from the surrounding land (as Sadira does on a number of occasions in The Prism Pentad), and there were rules that stated that if a Preserver defiled, there was a chance of becoming a Defiler. If that happened, then you had to repent (with a loss of XP).

The Dragon was originally Borys, the Butcher of Dwarves, one of the 15 Champions of Rajaat, and the one that led the revolt against Rajaat. He volunteered to undergo the ritual of Dragon metamorphosis in order to make sure Rajaat didn't escape his extradimensional prison, but the ritual drove him insane and he went on the rampage for a century before finally calming down.

The closest any of the other champions got to becoming a full Dragon was Dregoth, who was killed by the other Sorcerer Kings then rose as a (possibly the first on Athas) Kaishaga, a powerful undead equivalent to a lich. After exploring the myriad planes of existance, now he wants to become the first true god of Athas. He has also created the Dray, the equivalent of Dragonborn and they will be the ones to inherit Athas - all humans will be given the choice between becoming Dray or death.

Kalak of Tyr was killed in a rebellion before he became a full Dragon, and Kalid-Ma of Kalidnay either destroyed his city in an attempt to turn into a Dragon and was killed (though his psyche lives on in five obsidian orbs) or it was drawn into Ravenloft.

As for the Dragon Sorcerer, there are no chromatic or metallic dragons on Athas, but there are Drakes, which are semi-intelligent beasts tied to the elements, so Dragon Sorcerer could be changed to Drake Sorcerer and still be faithful to the setting.

GorogIrongut

2017-09-28, 04:01 PM

I was under the impression that metal armor could only really be used if you had thick padding underneath it. Else, it'd be more of a torture device than armor, even under the best of conditions. Also, if you do have metal armor, you're likely to be committed to strict nocturnal existence, trading easy sleep for metal. That, or you somehow have enough psionic energy to blow on maintaining resistance to extreme heat (which, going by the AL-legal mystic writeup, seems to be very, very easy in 5e). Clerics also got various environmental resistance powers along those lines.

Each kind of armour is different. For example, my titanium chainmail hauberk could be worn without any pain or discomfort. And it would stop me from being stabbed. But I'd get a heck of a bruise. You would normally put a multilayered but thin gambeson on underneath to reduce said bruises and potentially broken bones. It's not actually that thick and is just made from lots of thin layers of fabric sewn together.

If we're talking plate mail, then you'd definitely want something on underneath to prevent chafing. You still probably wouldn't be able to remove all contact with skin.

Eric Diaz

2017-09-28, 08:15 PM

TBH I can't remember if they ever mentioned night being very cold in Athas. They should be, of course, in a desert; but I just can't remember this being an issue in the books. The 4e version does mention it.

Now, this "travelling by night with armor" thing, I'd certainly allow it. They'd have to deal with darkness, etc, but it might be a great idea.