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View Full Version : Pathfinder Peasant Fork and Veteran Virtuoso Disciplines: Path of War Homebrew



Wartex1
2017-09-25, 07:51 AM
I'm currently working on a music-themed discipline for Path of War, though it's not in any presentable state, but months ago I made an improvised weapon discipline that I'm fairly certain I never posted, so I thought I could post that and get feedback while working on the music themed discipline, which I will post here once it's ready.

Link to Peasant Fork: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ybvx4ANKjgthoDMsaziO7GNCYcrZT-AiKvkxthdLfUg/edit?usp=sharing

Link to Veteran Virtuoso: (unfinished)

Draacul
2017-09-25, 10:35 AM
I'm currently working on a music-themed discipline for Path of War, though it's not in any presentable state, but months ago I made an improvised weapon discipline that I'm fairly certain I never posted, so I thought I could post that and get feedback while working on the music themed discipline, which I will post here once it's ready.

Link to Peasant Fork: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ybvx4ANKjgthoDMsaziO7GNCYcrZT-AiKvkxthdLfUg/edit?usp=sharing

Link to Veteran Virtuoso: (unfinished)
For the Cause and For the People are literally the same thing,despite being three levels apart.
Combat maneuver strikes are horribly underpowered even comparing to Tempest Gale.They don't offer a bonus,nor do they allow to,well,attack.Worker's Rebellion is an intentional sabotage by dirty capitalists.Gaponschina,if you will.
What is intended power level of Peasant Fork?I ask because i want to know what to criticize.
As of now,i can say that my wife likes...the idea.Especially if there is some commoner/expert archetype to go with it.
I do request aforementioned archetype.

Wartex1
2017-09-25, 10:44 AM
For the Cause and For the People are literally the same thing,despite being three levels apart.
Combat maneuver strikes are horribly underpowered even comparing to Tempest Gale.They don't offer a bonus,nor do they allow to,well,attack.Worker's Rebellion is an intentional sabotage by dirty capitalists.Gaponschina,if you will.
What is intended power level of Peasant Fork?I ask because i want to know what to criticize.
As of now,i can say that my wife likes...the idea.Especially if there is some commoner/expert archetype to go with it.
I do request aforementioned archetype.

The first one was a typo. It was intended to be an extra 6d6 rather than 1d6.

As for the combat maneuver strikes, I should probably add some damage, better riders, etc. Though I did allow them to be modified by feats.

The power level was definitely intended to be on the lower end of disciplines. It fits the theme, and with homebrew, I'm more wary of making things overpowered than underpowered.

EDIT: I'll consider a commoner archetype to go with it. Or maybe just give all commoners full access to the discipline using the standard maneuver progression instead of the gimped archetype progression. :smalltongue:

Draacul
2017-09-25, 10:56 AM
EDIT: I'll consider a commoner archetype to go with it. Or maybe just give all commoners full access to the discipline using the standard maneuver progression instead of the gimped archetype progression. :smalltongue:
Giving ALL commoners it is kinda silly.But make an archetype,that requires special training and trades something like a class skill for it and it'll be OK.Maybe even important class skill,like cow-milking,ahem,Handle Animal.
Where was i?
Ah.Opportunist's gamble.I think that random chance has to go.Let poor peasant choose one thing in his miserable life,will you?It also provides discipline with a fun unique thing,because readying a new maneuver is nice,even as a swift action.
For the People now inflicts 6d6 despite being level 2.
Fury of the Masses is just horribly underpowered.It's inferior in every single way,except duration in 75% of the case to a first-level Golden Lion maneuver.
Topple the Regime doesn't allow to use profession.
Messenger Horse Stance is kinda weak.And probably needs to be +4 instead of IM.
Blind Justice doesn't allow attacks with splash weapons.Probably intentionally.
Rise Up is meh.2d6 conditional for 4th-level boost is kinda...underwhelming.
Hope for All stacks with 2nd level version.
Stance of the Pickaxe,in my opinion,should be renamed Peasant Fork Stance and moved to level 3 as is.

Wartex1
2017-09-25, 11:07 AM
Giving ALL commoners it is kinda silly.But make an archetype,that requires special training and trades something like a class skill for it and it'll be OK.Maybe even important class skill,like cow-milking,ahem,Handle Animal.
Where was i?
Ah.Opportunist's gamble.I think that random chance has to go.Let poor peasant choose one thing in his miserable life,will you?It also provides discipline with a fun unique thing,because readying a new maneuver is nice,even as a swift action.
For the People now inflicts 6d6 despite being level 2.
Fury of the Masses is just horribly underpowered.It's inferior in every single way,except duration in 75% of the case to a first-level Golden Lion maneuver.
Topple the Regime doesn't allow to use profession.
Messenger Horse Stance is kinda weak.And probably needs to be +4 instead of IM.
Blind Justice doesn't allow attacks with splash weapons.Probably intentionally.
Rise Up is meh.2d6 conditional for 4th-level boost is kinda...underwhelming.
Hope for All stacks with 2nd level version.
Stance of the Pickaxe,in my opinion,should be renamed Peasant Fork Stance and moved to level 3 as is.

Fixed For the People/Cause (today is not my day for edits, is it)
The gamble part is intended, hence the name. Luck and adaptability is all the commoner has.
Doubled the damage for Stance of the Pickaxe.

Other changes are pending since I gotta eat lunch and have a meeting in an hour.

Draacul
2017-09-25, 01:46 PM
Fixed For the People/Cause (today is not my day for edits, is it)
The gamble part is intended, hence the name. Luck and adaptability is all the commoner has.
.
But this is an opposite of luck.Two out of three times you don't get what you want.Give the poor man a chance,will you?

F
Doubled the damage for Stance of the Pickaxe.

This isn't what i meant.You see,design choices in Path of War usually resulted in that most disciplines have discipline-defining stance at level 3.
Trashing Dragon has TWF,Silver Crane has any-weapon-is-holy and so on.
And Stance of the Pickaxe is REALLY good at defining the discipline.You get two feats as tax returns,you get some damage to compensate innate inferiority of chosen weaponry and you get some DR penetration,to boot.It's not that of a stretch for it to be 3rd level,especially considering that Stance of the Grindstone is +3.5 damage at level 1.
But it's level 6,not 3.And at level 3 we have stance that gives us...+2 to initiative and to AC against AOO?This is first-level stance,not third.Certainly not discipline-defining,unless,again,it's intended.
Stance of the Grindstone is just obviously better choice.
So,my opinion.Move Stance of the Pickaxe to 3,move Bolivar Cannot Carry Double to 1,remove Grindstone entirely.

Wartex1
2017-09-25, 02:09 PM
What kind of initiator has only a +2 to their initiator mod?

The main benefit of Messenger Horse stance is the ability to interact with objects as a free action. Want to use the run full action and try and snag a magic medallion off of an enemy's neck while you're doing so? You can with this.

Or maybe you want to hand an ally a potion, or pick up a disarmed enemy's weapon?

Such a small free action can be devastating when used cleverly.

Draacul
2017-09-25, 02:48 PM
What kind of initiator has only a +2 to their initiator mod?

Peasant.


The main benefit of Messenger Horse stance is the ability to interact with objects as a free action. Want to use the run full action and try and snag a magic medallion off of an enemy's neck while you're doing so? You can with this.

No,you can't.Take an item from a WILLING target.
Also,why interaction with objects as a free action isn't basic benefit of a discipline,akin to Tempest Gale?


Or maybe you want to hand an ally a potion, or pick up a disarmed enemy's weapon?
But it doesn't allow the former.And the latter isn't notable enough to warrant level three.Or any level,really.Both Tempest Gale and Piercing Thunder just allow you to do so as part of ANY stance from these disciplines.

Wartex1
2017-09-25, 04:25 PM
How about allowing the initiator to use any maneuver that doesn't deal damage as a bonus action instead of whatever action it normally uses?

Draacul
2017-09-25, 04:38 PM
How about allowing the initiator to use any maneuver that doesn't deal damage as a bonus action instead of whatever action it normally uses?
Define"bonus action".

Wartex1
2017-09-25, 04:43 PM
Crap meant Swift Action.

Damn other systems with their similar mechanics with slightly different names.

Elricaltovilla
2017-09-25, 07:15 PM
Almost all maneuvers that don't cause damage use Swift/Immediate actions regardless. So your idea won't change anything. I can't think of a single standard or full round action maneuver that doesn't deal any damage.

Wartex1
2017-09-25, 08:15 PM
Okay, how about this:

I swap the positions of Pickaxe and Messenger Horse stance and add some additional bonuses to MH. The AC bonus is extended to all attacks, movement speed is increased, and a character can perform certain combat maneuvers (trip, disarm, dirty trick, and sunder) once per turn as a free action. Sound good?

I'll make the edits tomorrow when I have time.

Draacul
2017-09-25, 09:35 PM
Okay, how about this:

I swap the positions of Pickaxe and Messenger Horse stance and add some additional bonuses to MH. The AC bonus is extended to all attacks, movement speed is increased, and a character can perform certain combat maneuvers (trip, disarm, dirty trick, and sunder) once per turn as a free action. Sound good?

I'll make the edits tomorrow when I have time.
Now that's acceptable.AC bonus is nice,speed is good,too,and ability to do things with action economy is always welcome.Sorta kinda Sand-Bearer's Swiftness.
I still insist on renaming Pickaxe Peasant Fork Stance.
What even the hell is a pickaxe?But everybody knows what the fork is.

Elricaltovilla
2017-09-25, 09:57 PM
Now that's acceptable.AC bonus is nice,speed is good,too,and ability to do things with action economy is always welcome.Sorta kinda Sand-Bearer's Swiftness.
I still insist on renaming Pickaxe Peasant Fork Stance.
What even the hell is a pickaxe?But everybody knows what the fork is.

This (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickaxe) is a pickaxe. Similar to a mattock, it's a mining tool.

Draacul
2017-09-25, 10:18 PM
This (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickaxe) is a pickaxe. Similar to a mattock, it's a mining tool.
i really should use "sarcasm"tag more often.

Wartex1
2017-09-30, 09:39 AM
Finished edits to Peasant Fork, but did not change the Gamble/Gambit maneuvers because the luck mechanic was entirely intended and it never hurts to actually use it. Furthermore, it was intended to simulate random happenstance that the initiator takes advantage of, which is why it's luck based to begin with.

Elricaltovilla
2017-09-30, 07:38 PM
I was going to wait until your other discipline was up, but I'll weigh in on a few things I noticed.

1. Unless you want to force a feat tax, Improvised Weapons impose a -4 penalty to attack rolls when used. I'd consider allowing the discipline to remove that penalty for initiators.

2. Don't use his/her when trying to be gender neutral. "Their" is the proper gender neutral third person pronoun. Usually we just went with he/his in PoW:E though.

3. Dust Dodge: "Clouding an opponent’s vision is rarely harmful, even if it is only momentarily." makes it sound like the counter doesn't do anything, like the counter itself is rarely harmful, rather than it being a commonly good option in a fight. Also, pocket sand (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTAXUYLbFYk)!

4. Lying scales stance has a really long progression. I'd look at condensing some of it down, especially since it's primarily composed of bonus feats. You should also specify that you only get the benefits of the feats while in Lying Scales Stance.

5. For Opportunist's Gamble and related, a bonus to attack rolls also applies as a bonus to CMB rolls. Don't know if you were aware of that or if it was intended a good option, a not-so-good option and a different option.

6. Hope of Freedom's 1 hour duration is ridiculous and unnecessary given how maneuvers are refreshed. I would consider reducing it significantly.

7. Does the forced "sunder" from Building A Barrier provoke an attack of opportunity if the opponent doesn't have the Improved Sunder feat?

8. Peasant Fork Stance still uses the fluff from when it was about being a miner. In addition, avoid using parentheses for the text of the maneuver. Those parentheticals should be their own clauses or sentences.

9. Mob Rush should use the language for target and attack that other charge maneuvers use. The range is melee, and it's "charge a target in range" not "the disciple charges at a target within range of a Charge Attack."

10. Don't use "for the duration of this boost" or similar text. Be explicit about the duration both in the maneuver's mechanical entry and its text explanation.

11. For the Cause is not good. I'm trying to avoid making explicit judgements, but I would consider a different mechanical effect. Counters are for avoiding damage, not dealing it.

12. Hail of Stones: Thrown is not a range, it is a weapon type. You want "Ranged Attack," and then you specify that the weapon must be a thrown weapon in the maneuver's description. In addition, it should read "make a full attack with a thrown weapon or weapons you are wielding." Look at maneuvers with similar effects to what you're trying to accomplish in order to find proper wording.

13. You're missing a 5th level stance. Discipline stances have been standardized at 1, 1, 3, 5, and 8th level stances.

14. You have a slash after One Creature in the target section of Bottle Smasher. In addition, I'd consider tuning the damage downward because of how strong a rider the nauseated condition is.

15. Worker's Rebellion is a 1st level strike not a 6th level strike. All it does is allow you to make a sunder check without provoking an attack of opportunity. There is no bonus damage or extra effect listed. As written it doesn't do any damage.

16. Blaze of Glory is low damage for its cost to the initiator, especially when compared to the effects of other, lower level maneuvers in the discipline with similar effects.

17. What happens if the opponent destroys the held object you use during Building the Barricade? Do you lose the ability to continue blocking attacks with the item? If not, does the attacker simply fail to do damage because there is no longer a legal target for them to hit with their attacks?

18. Rise Up pushes into Broken Blade levels of dpr boosting.

19. Horse Spurs is weak for an 8th level stance. It's a powerful group buff, but one that wizards have been handing out to the whole party since level 5.

20. Strength of the Masses would be great as part of a stance. As an 8th level boost it's exceptionally underwhelming.

21. Worker's Revolution uses a range that doesn't exist. Your ranges should be expressed as "Melee Attack," "Ranged Attack," or in a specific number of feet. In addition, it is a single target strike that does no damage, offers no bonus to the CMB roll and has no significant bonus. It is equivalent to a 1st level maneuver.

22. How does Everything's A Weapon interact with stances, feats and abilities that grant additional attacks? Are those attacks not allowed because they would cause the initiator to exceed the maneuver's listed cap on maximum attacks? You need to consider this as Rapid Shot/Manyshot, Haste, Solar Hailstorm Stance and the TWF line of feats are all key to how many builds function, especially at high levels.