Fun Finds - what are yours

[8wGremlin]

Fun finds: are weird rules interactions that create fun/odd anomalies

Here is one I've foundThe UA Theurgy Wizard Multiclass shenanigan.


https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/MJ320UAWizardVF2017.pdfIt states that


Beginning when you select this tradition at 2nd level, whenever you gain a wizard level, you can replace one of the wizard spells you add to your spellbook with a cleric domain spell for your chosen domain. The spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

look at that last sentence... let it sink in.

Then think of how multiclass spellcasters work.

Example:A 1st level druid, 2nd level Wizard(theurge) would have the casting slots of a 3rd level caster.thus having level 2 slots.

The Wizard(theurge) could use for the criteria of selecting a domain spell to learn a 2nd level spell, as they have the spell slots!

Not major, but an interesting fun find

[ThePolarBear]

Fun finds: are weird rules interactions that create fun/odd anomalies

Here is one I've foundThe UA Theurgy Wizard Multiclass shenanigan.


https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/MJ320UAWizardVF2017.pdfIt states that



look at that last sentence... let it sink in.

Then think of how multiclass spellcasters work.

Example:A 1st level druid, 2nd level Wizard(theurge) would have the casting slots of a 3rd level caster.thus having level 2 slots.

The Wizard(theurge) could use for the criteria of selecting a domain spell to learn a 2nd level spell, as they have the spell slots!

Not major, but an interesting fun find

Remember that the rules for learning and memorizing spells for multiclassed characters still exist.
You still know and prepare spells as a single classed character would, so you would have not access to 2nd level slots, and thus you would not be able to pick a 2nd level spell. Also, you would still be unable to memorize it anyway.

[DivisibleByZero]

Remember that the rules for learning and memorizing spells for multiclassed characters still exist.
You still know and prepare spells as a single classed character would, so you would have not access to 2nd level slots, and thus you would not be able to pick a 2nd level spell. Also, you would still be unable to memorize it anyway.

This.

The Multiclass rules trump the class rules because the class rules were written with single classed characters in mind. Once you multiclass, those rules go out the window. They still apply, but have been modified by your new multiclass rules learning/preparing restrictions.

[DarkKnightJin]

This.

The Multiclass rules trump the class rules because the class rules were written with single classed characters in mind. Once you multiclass, those rules go out the window. They still apply, but have been modified by your new multiclass rules learning/preparing restrictions.

Another gine example of 'Specific beats General'.
Not I think there would be many situations where a Wizard wouldn't have access to a higher level slot than he has the spells to use.
We're not talking about EK/AT and Wizard MC's here.

[solidork]

War God's Blessing (the War Cleric channel divinity that gives +10 to an ally) does not require that you be able to see the person making the attack. Taken to the extreme, this kinda implies that you are somehow aware of fighting on a mystical level.

[Maxilian]

At lvl 9 Mystic you get the ability to become smaller than tiny, it does give you some restrictions but it doesn't say you can't use spell to cast, so with 2 lvl in Warlock and you can blast your way while using a familiar as a mount (or anything for that sake).

Note: Also a Mystic could use a Shadow as it mounts (the Mystic needs to be small).

Note2: There is only one non-Tiny familiar (an Octopus), not that relevant but a Mystic lvl 2 can use it as a mount.

[Beechgnome]

It's not my find by any means, but I've always liked that a halfling or gnome that is light enough can reduce themselves with Enlarge/reduce, and then, with their weight being below 10 pounds, carry themselves around with mage hand. Now you have a flying speed of 30... Well, you use your action to move, but still worth it at second level. Bonus points for arcane trickters, who have invisible hands and still get to do fun things with their cunning action.

[Thunderbird]

As I replied to the thread about the Warlock patrons, I multiclassed my Valor Bard into a Raven Queen Warlock. I had already chosen Perception as one of my expertise skills (that was before the UA Raven Queen Warlock came out), and with my Sentinel Raven perched on my shoulder I gain a bonus to my Perception checks and Passive Perception score equal to my Charisma modofier.
I am now having a 29 Passive Perception score. :smalltongue:

[Maxilian]

As I replied to the thread about the Warlock patrons, I multiclassed my Valor Bard into a Raven Queen Warlock. I had already chosen Perception as one of my expertise skills (that was before the UA Raven Queen Warlock came out), and with my Sentinel Raven perched on my shoulder I gain a bonus to my Perception checks and Passive Perception score equal to my Charisma modofier.
I am now having a 29 Passive Perception score. :smalltongue:

Now you are missing just the Observant feat :P

Also a Barbarian Path of the Berserker that Multiclass into Druid, could use the Elemental forms to evade ever getting Exhaustion lvl from Frenzy as the Elemental Forms are inmune to such condition (So just gotta make sure your rage ends in the Elemental Form)

[Thunderbird]

Now you are missing just the Observant feat :P

Also a Barbarian Path of the Berserker that Multiclass into Druid, could use the Elemental forms to evade ever getting Exhaustion lvl from Frenzy as the Elemental Forms are inmune to such condition (So just gotta make sure your rage ends in the Elemental Form)

Indeed. You can imagine my DM's "You rolled a WHAT?" reaction when I announced I had rolled a 38 Perception check. :smallbiggrin:
It was then I realised the whole "Unearthed Arcana is not balanced for multiclassing" thing.

[Maxilian]

Indeed. You can imagine my DM's "You rolled a WHAT?" reaction when I announced I had rolled a 38 Perception check. :smallbiggrin:
It was then I realised the whole "Unearthed Arcana is not balanced for multiclassing" thing.

Well... i wouldn't call it inbalanced (pretty sure the Raven Queen will come out with almost no change), i mean with good WIS and Observant, you were going to see everything, the extra Perception from the Raven Queen is rarely useful (well... i guess it may become useful against Rogues with Expertise on Stealth :P, but not quite), its just a way to make your character really good at doing X thing.

Note: A Sunsoul Monk with a couple of lvls in Druid can use the Druid form while still casting sun rays, at low lvls there are some forms that got 19 DEX, so its quite useful.

[Easy_Lee]

Pretty simple one: Wildshaping + Enlarge / Reduce + Squeezing into a Smaller Space


A creature can squeeze through a space that is large enough for a creature one size smaller than it. Thus, a Large creature can squeeze through a passage that's only 5 feet wide. While squeezing through a space, a creature must spend 1 extra foot for every foot it moves there, and it has disadvantage on attack rolls and Dexterity saving throws. Attack rolls against the creature have advantage while it’s in the smaller space.

Druids can wildshape into any beast. That includes tiny creatures. We already have a problem. There is no size smaller than tiny. This leads to a confusing rules situation where tiny creatures can by RAW squeeze into spaces of arbitrary size.

Have a level 3 sorcerer or wizard cast Enlarge / Reduce on the tiny druid, reducing him. Now we have a bigger problem because there is no size for that.

If we take the Reduce text and make up a size, we can resolve this as the druid becoming 1 1/4 by 1 1/4 feet in size. He can presumably squeeze through spaces as small as 0.625 feet.

If we take tiny to be the smallest size, then we end up with an even funnier problem: even crickets take up at least 2 1/2 feet squared if they aren't reduced.

[Maxilian]

Pretty simple one: Wildshaping + Enlarge / Reduce + Squeezing into a Smaller Space



Druids can wildshape into any beast. That includes tiny creatures. We already have a problem. There is no size smaller than tiny. This leads to a confusing rules situation where tiny creatures can, by RAW squeeze into spaces of arbitrary size.

Have a level 3 sorcerer or wizard cast Enlarge / Reduce on the tiny druid, reducing him. Now we have a bigger problem because there is no size for that.

If we take the Reduce text and make up a size, we can resolve this as the druid becoming 1 1/4 by 1 1/4 feet in size. He can presumably squeeze through spaces as small as 0.625 feet.

If we take tiny to be the smallest size, then we end up with an even funnier problem: even crickets take up at least 2 1/2 feet squared if they aren't reduced.

I guess the closer to that is the Microscopic form the Mystic gets.

[Easy_Lee]

I guess the closer to that is the Microscopic form the Mystic gets.

You know, since mystics aren't yet fully tested I don't normally consider them. But that's silly if they get something that isn't even on the chart.

[Thunderbird]

Well... i wouldn't call it inbalanced (pretty sure the Raven Queen will come out with almost no change), i mean with good WIS and Observant, you were going to see everything, the extra Perception from the Raven Queen is rarely useful (well... i guess it may become useful against Rogues with Expertise on Stealth :P, but not quite), its just a way to make your character really good at doing X thing.

Actually, the party's rogue thought of that as a challenge and was constantly trying to steal a set of nice daggers I had acquired. Fun times. :smallsmile:
I hope we get to see Raven Queen Warlock published though, I really liked it.

[Ventruenox]

This one is has no mechanical value, but is designed to irritate DMs. With Mystic's Personality Quirks, select the options that you must write down names of every creature you kill, and the option that you draw pictures instead of using words. Stick figures work best. Then take the Keen Mind feat and have the DM recall the names of all your kills when showing your drawings.

[DarkKnightJin]

Note: A Sunsoul Monk with a couple of lvls in Druid can use the Druid form while still casting sun rays, at low lvls there are some forms that got 19 DEX, so its quite useful.

I actually made a character idea around that very thing.
Warforged Druid/Monk(or Monk/Druid), using their Wildshape to turn into varying dextrous beasties. If the split is 11 / 8 in the Monk's favor, you could have a metal Giant Eagle flying around, chucking sun bolts or the 11th level Sun Soul's explodey ball at things.

[Maxilian]

Actually, the party's rogue thought of that as a challenge and was constantly trying to steal a set of nice daggers I had acquired. Fun times. :smallsmile:
I hope we get to see Raven Queen Warlock published though, I really liked it.

I think Wizard confirmed that the RQ is comming in the Book of Everything (forgot the name), i have been playing it for a while (lvl 5 though right now) and its quite nice, but the restriction of the distance the Raven can be takes away the "scout" feel of it (as you're quite limited) -Though the lvl 6 ability does let you be a really good scout-

[8wGremlin]

Specific rule beat generals


You determine your available spell slots by adding together all your levels in the bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard classes, half your levels (rounded down) in the paladin and ranger classes, and a third of your fighter or rogue levels (rounded down) if you have the Eldritch Knight or the Arcane Trickster feature. Use this total to determine your spell slots by consulting the Multiclass Spellcaster table.


If you have more than one spellcasting class, this table might give you spell slots of a level that is higher than the spells you know or can prepare. You can use those slots, but only to cast your lower-level spells. If a lower- level spell that you cast, like burning hands, has an enhanced effect when cast using a higher-level slot, you can use the enhanced effect, even though you don’t have any spells of that higher level.


For example, if you are the aforementioned ranger 4/ wizard 3, you count as a 5th-level character when determining your spell slots: you have four 1st-level slots, three 2nd-level slots, and two 3rd-level slots. However, you don’t know any 3rd-level spells, nor do you know any 2nd-level ranger spells. You can use the spell slots of those levels to cast the spells you do know—and potentially enhance their effects.




Beginning when you select this tradition at 2nd level, whenever you gain a wizard level, you can replace one of the wizard spells you add to your spellbook with a cleric domain spell for your chosen domain. The spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots.




The Wizard table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest.


You prepare the list of wizard spells that are available for you to cast. To do so. choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.


For example, if you're a 3rd-level wizard, you have four 1st-level and two 2nd-level spell slots. With an Intelligence of 16, your list of prepared spells can include six spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination, chosen from your spellbook. If you prepare the 1st-level spell magic missile, you can cast it using a 1st-level or a 2nd-levelslot.Castingthespelldoesn’tremoveitfrom your list of prepared spells.


For the ranger 4/ wizard 3 mentioned above, they have just levelled up a wizard(theurge) and gain 2 spells


1) They have spell slots of a 5th level caster (true)
2) The theurge can replace one of spells added to thier spell book with a domain spell of the chosen domain. (true)
3) The spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots. (A 5th level caster has 2 3rd level spell slots, so true)
4) The Theurge wizard can add the 3rd level cleric domain spell into thier spellbook. (true)
5) The Theurge wizard can prepare spells that are available to you to cast. (true)
6) The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. (true)


The trick is bypassing the "However, you don’t know any 3rd-level spells" aspect.
The trick, and it is a trick, is that you do know a 3rd level spell, and all requirements are met.


Would I allow it in my game, probabally not, is it RAW, pretty much yes, is it RAI, no way!
thus a Trick. (if you don't agree that your prerogative, happy to politely discuss tricks like this)

[DivisibleByZero]

Would I allow it in my game, probabally not, is it RAW, pretty much yes, is it RAI, no way!
thus a Trick. (if you don't agree that your prerogative, happy to politely discuss tricks like this)

Yes, specific beats general.
Anything from the class description, including anything from a subclass of that class, is general. It tells you, in a general sense, how you learn and prepare spells.
Once you multiclass, that's when the specific comes into play. This section tells you, specifically, how those earlier rules have been altered due to your multiclassing.
You have not found a trick, and it is not RAW.
The theurge wizard, just like every other subclass of wizard, learns and prepares spells based on his wizard level. Full stop. Not based on his slots. Full stop.

[8wGremlin]

Yes, specific beats general.
Anything from the class description, including anything from a subclass of that class, is general. It tells you, in a general sense, how you learn and prepare spells.
Once you multiclass, that's when the specific comes into play. This section tells you, specifically, how those earlier rules have been altered due to your multiclassing.
You have not found a trick, and it is not RAW.
The theurge wizard, just like every other subclass of wizard, learns and prepares spells based on his wizard level. Full stop. Not based on his slots. Full stop.

Oh I see, you're saying that the Multi-class rule is the specific one, and not the Wizard > Theurge Archetype > Arcane Initiate > rule for copying spells in spellbook.

Ok if that's it, then I can see that side of the argument.
Mine thoughts are the logic statement in my post above.

Happy to leave that there if you like.

[DivisibleByZero]

Oh I see, you're saying that the Multi-class rule is the specific one, and not the Wizard > Theurge Archetype > Arcane Initiate > rule for copying spells in spellbook.

Ok if that's it, then I can see that side of the argument.
Mine thoughts are the logic statement in my post above.

Happy to leave that there if you like.

Yes, that's it.
Just look at the wording/rules for Ritual Casting. They're similar. And you can only add rituals to your spellbook if you can cast the spell with slots (ruling out wiz1/cleric19 from learning all of the rituals), for the same reason.

There are no subclasses or feats or multiclass combos that circumvent the multiclass rules. The multiclass rules are the specific.

[Varlon]

For the record, every casting class (even Warlock) has the same "level for which you have spell slots" phrasing. Nothing specific about it.

[Maxilian]

I actually made a character idea around that very thing.
Warforged Druid/Monk(or Monk/Druid), using their Wildshape to turn into varying dextrous beasties. If the split is 11 / 8 in the Monk's favor, you could have a metal Giant Eagle flying around, chucking sun bolts or the 11th level Sun Soul's explodey ball at things.

I went with that, sadly didn't get that high in lvl, and i gave too much priority to flying creatures (i got to 13, Druid 8/Monk 5) and took the Flying Snake as my main form (Good Dex, lovely speed and tiny creature), that means that you can easily go around the problem of your low HP with:

-Speed (Get out of their range)
-Cover (You're tiny, full cover is EVERYWHERE!)

I also found out something interesting tonight, in ToA there are going to be 2 creatures that are going to be added as optional familiars, one of the interesting thing they have is that, they are both small so that means:

-Small characters with the Reduce spell can use them as mount
-Mystic lvl 2 can become Tiny and use it as a mount.

The First one is a bunny with a horn (Unibunny!) with darkvision and a movement speed of 50 feet.

And the other one is a Flying Monkey (just what you would expect a monkey with wings), walking and flying speed 30 and climbing speed 20, and this one fly! so you could use it as a flying mount.

Note: As i mentioned before, the only other familiar that is not tiny is the Octopus.

[DarkKnightJin]

-snip-

It would've been more awesome if you coulf use Str OR Dex for the radiant bolt. Laser-breathing bear, yahoo.

At least the Dex heavy forms get the benefits from the Monk's Unarmored Defense trait, making them a bit more tanky in terms of AC.

[Anymage]

I really wish there were something general added about a max spell level for each side of a multiclass. People seem to rediscover "wizards can learn any spell they have slots for, and multiclass wizards have these slots..." quite often.

As for my find, it's less mechanical and more world-screwy. Teleport circles (the destination circles, not the spell effect) are usually in securely guarded places to make it difficult to teleport a whole army in. Druids can turn into innocuous flying animals. Transport via Plants (http://5e.d20srd.org/srd/spells/transportViaPlants.htm) is a druid spell. Even just flying outside the outskirts of the city should allow you to see pretty much any large swathes of greenery. (And that's assuming the destination plant has to be be something like a tree, and not counting the legalistically allowed random blade of grass.) Royal gardens and any civic greenery have just become strategic liabilities.

[DarkKnightJin]

I really wish there were something general added about a max spell level for each side of a multiclass. People seem to rediscover "wizards can learn any spell they have slots for, and multiclass wizards have these slots..." quite often.

As for my find, it's less mechanical and more world-screwy. Teleport circles (the destination circles, not the spell effect) are usually in securely guarded places to make it difficult to teleport a whole army in. Druids can turn into innocuous flying animals. Transport via Plants (http://5e.d20srd.org/srd/spells/transportViaPlants.htm) is a druid spell. Even just flying outside the outskirts of the city should allow you to see pretty much any large swathes of greenery. (And that's assuming the destination plant has to be be something like a tree, and not counting the legalistically allowed random blade of grass.) Royal gardens and any civic greenery have just become strategic liabilities.

I'm fairly sure most Druidic circles/enclaves aren't the kind that will go to war without good cause.
And their Nature magic is generally seen as more benign by the larger populace. Sure, they can wrexk your **** if they get high enough level and not break a sweat.. but I feel most Druids would be pretty levelheaded.

[Maxilian]

It would've been more awesome if you coulf use Str OR Dex for the radiant bolt. Laser-breathing bear, yahoo.

At least the Dex heavy forms get the benefits from the Monk's Unarmored Defense trait, making them a bit more tanky in terms of AC.

True, that was the whole premise of my character, sadly most forms with good DEX have low HP, even more if they fly.

-An Artificer could get a Stench Kow that makes an aura of 5 of poison and take a race inmune to Poison condition, like the Yuan-ti pureblood or the (maybe soon to come) Grung.

-Ok, that's not that interesting, the interesting part is that anyone could use the Thunder Cannon if they MC into an Artificer, so a Fighter could use it to attack once with it and then do the rest of the attacks with another range weapon (the Thunder Cannon damage is something along the lines of a 2d6 + DEX) adding some extra damage and making it thunder damage instead of piercing, still would need to use your bonus action to load it. -So could work great with a Fighter or with a Rogue-

-A mystic small race that takes Mastery of Light and Shadow, can summon a Shadow and use it as mount (Yeah yeah, before you guys point it out, i do like mounts)

-Any small creature with 2 familiars (by familiars i mean 2 creatures at least tiny) could be carried around. (in some cases, just need 1, looking at you naked imp-riding kobold), most other medium races could do this with a ranger pet (medium creature -maybe small) and a familiar.

-You could use Feeblemind on animals or plants that would normally be not an acceptable target for Awaken to make them a viable target (for that ranger that really wants to awaken its Ape -better than just spending the ASIS it gets in INT *would need to spend 2 ASIS, to bring the Ape at the INT that Awaken would have leave it*)

-There are some items in the Tomb of Annihilation campaigns that were not based around the idea of a PC being inmune to poison (there is a armor that when you take it off or put it on, have a chance to deal an average of 100 poison damage, if you're a yuanti or a grung you laugh at this)

-The Rune Master abilities (in the UA) do not count as spells, so you could use them all while raging as a Barbarian.

-A Rock Gnome with the Feat Wonder Maker (UA feat for races), could give the Lifter to a familiar to be carried around (works with any familiar, do not need the specific -Imp-)

-A Rock Gnome with the feat Wonder Maker, could be able to carry more than any other race (including the Goliath)

-Anyone with the Feat Quick-Fingered could take magic items that have command words to activate, and put it on an enemy with its bonus action and then activate it with its action: Like the Folding Boat (unsure how useful would be this -well if you use the second command, is a really big ship, so you could crush someone with that) or the Staff of Python (have a Giant constrictor snake appear in the enemy backpack) etc...

[8wGremlin]

*SNIP* [/B]

these are excellent, here is another one.

- The Crag Cat (from Storm kings thunder) Is awesome for Artificer, and Druids.


name: Crag Cat
size: L
type: beast, storm kings thunder
ac: 13
hp: 34 (4d10+12)
speed: 40 ft.
str: 16 dex: 17 con: 16 int: 4 wis: 14 cha: 8
skills: Stealth +7 Perception +4
senses: darkvision 60 ft.
passive: 14
cr: 1


Nondetection
The cat cannot be targeted or detected by any divination magic or perceived through magical scrying sensors.


Pounce
If the cat moves at least 20 feet straight toward a creature then hits it with a claw attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC13 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, the cat can make one bite attack against it as a bonus action.


Spell Turning
The cat has advantage on saving throws against any spell that targets only the cat (not an area). If the cat's saving throw succeeds and the spell is of 7th level or lower, the spell has no effect on the cat and instead targets the caster.


Bite
Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 8 (1d10+3) piercing damage.


Claw
Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d8+3) slashing damage.

[SaA]

Ok heres a Cool Finisher Combo i had thought of

First off it requires Mystic Mastery of Air and Nomadic Step, and you are required to be atleast level 5 in Mystic, and Awakened is the best option for Mystic Order

First off you use Wind Step from [MoA] this does not require an action, bonus action, or reaction, its tied to movement. 20f of fly per pp. Drop 5 points in and fly 100ft up.

Then when your there you use Baleful Transposition from [NS] and swap places with the target, this takes your action. Now the target falls 100ft , you use your Awakened 6th ability Psionic Surge. to impose Disadvantage on your targets Saving throw against Baleful Transposition.

With all of this you still have your Bonus Action

so now this is where a Dip is need into Sorcerer.

Quickened Spell allows you to turn a spell that cost 1 action into a Bonus action. Also because you can and if you need to use Empowered Spell aswell if you think it will give you more damage.

This requires Sorc to be at the very least level 3

and at level 3 your best spell for this situation could be up to you there are a few options. but Magic Missile can reach the 100 feet and you can cast it as a 2nd level spell for 4 darts doing 4d4+4 guaranteed

And then you walk away like a badass as they fall to the ground taking falling damage at 10d6


And you still have a Reaction if you have something you can use for it.

this combo at max damage would do 80 damage [18 at Min] to a single target in one turn. and in a spectacular way
.

you can do even more if you say instead of going straight up, use this combo to drop them off a cliff or into say a volcano

[Maxilian]

these are excellent, here is another one.

- The Crag Cat (from Storm kings thunder) Is awesome for Artificer, and Druids.


name: Crag Cat
size: L
type: beast, storm kings thunder
ac: 13
hp: 34 (4d10+12)
speed: 40 ft.
str: 16 dex: 17 con: 16 int: 4 wis: 14 cha: 8
skills: Stealth +7 Perception +4
senses: darkvision 60 ft.
passive: 14
cr: 1


Nondetection
The cat cannot be targeted or detected by any divination magic or perceived through magical scrying sensors.


Pounce
If the cat moves at least 20 feet straight toward a creature then hits it with a claw attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC13 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, the cat can make one bite attack against it as a bonus action.


Spell Turning
The cat has advantage on saving throws against any spell that targets only the cat (not an area). If the cat's saving throw succeeds and the spell is of 7th level or lower, the spell has no effect on the cat and instead targets the caster.


Bite
Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 8 (1d10+3) piercing damage.


Claw
Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d8+3) slashing damage.


Yeah the Cragcat is really good, did not mention it cause in the Artificer thread it was pointed out as one of the best possible beast options, so doubt anyone who have seen Artificer does not know of this one.

@SaA that combo is pretty good, and kind of fun, have in mind that as soon as the enemy fall, the enemy aslo fall prone, making it less likely to be in your range after that (if melee)

[DarkKnightJin]

Yeah the Cragcat is really good, did not mention it cause in the Artificer thread it was pointed out as one of the best possible beast options, so doubt anyone who have seen Artificer does not know of this one.

@SaA that combo is pretty good, and kind of fun, have in mind that as soon as the enemy fall, the enemy aslo fall prone, making it less likely to be in your range after that (if melee)

I never looked at SKT, so I didn't know about the Crag Cat. Does seem like it's one of the better options for the companion at 6th.

Curious why it gets a better Spell Turning than the actual ring, though..

[Maxilian]

I never looked at SKT, so I didn't know about the Crag Cat. Does seem like it's one of the better options for the companion at 6th.

Curious why it gets a better Spell Turning than the actual ring, though..

Its a monster that would, in most case, be nothing more than a monster, or a druid transformation (nothing that great), so yeah...

Here a list with all the possible options for beasts.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XBRRYvmE6t_XA2ICfC5v15a8cNEOix5vnuzFa-mNapY/edit#gid=0

The list shouldn't be completely updated (pretty sure there are other options now with ToA)

Note: Actually i will check it out, maybe there is something there interesting (more than just the familiars options)

[Maxilian]

Thanks to ToA, Conjure Minor Elemental become quite interesting.

1-You can summon 8 Chwingas, all of them can cast one charm per day in a Friendly humanoid (page 228 DMG charms), they also have some nice spells options like Pass without trace.

2-The Jaculi is an option for Artificers, it have climbing speed and advantage on Stealth Check and Wis perception checks so its quite nice, it also does a nice amount of damage (thanks to the extra damage done)

3-Deinonychus is a really good options for Artificers, PHB beast master and low lvl druids cause is the only beast with such a low CR with 3 attacks (it even have nice stats for both STR and DEX + pouncing (not that relevant for Beast Conclave as you lose the multiattack option)

Note: Velociraptors are the only tiny creatures with multiattack -it also have pact tactics making it quite good.

[8wGremlin]

Its a monster that would, in most case, be nothing more than a monster, or a druid transformation (nothing that great), so yeah...

Here a list with all the possible options for beasts.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XBRRYvmE6t_XA2ICfC5v15a8cNEOix5vnuzFa-mNapY/edit#gid=0

The list shouldn't be completely updated (pretty sure there are other options now with ToA)

Note: Actually i will check it out, maybe there is something there interesting (more than just the familiars options)

that's my spreadsheet - could do with updating with new stuff, and yes I pointed the crag cat out, it is potent.

[Jack Bitters]

Well, I can't take credit for this one, but I've heard that since the heavy crossbow is both a Heavy weapon and Ranged weapon, when you make an improvised melee attack with it you can use both Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master, for a combined -10/+20! :smalltongue: You do have to take Tavern Brawler to be proficient with improvised weapons, though.

[DivisibleByZero]

Well, I can't take credit for this one, but I've heard that since the heavy crossbow is both a Heavy weapon and Ranged weapon, when you make an improvised melee attack with it you can use both Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master, for a combined -10/+20! :smalltongue: You do have to take Tavern Brawler to be proficient with improvised weapons, though.

If you're using it to make an Improvised melee attack, it is no longer a ranged weapon. It is now an Improvised melee weapon, which is to say, it isn't technically a weapon anymore at all.

[Jack Bitters]

If you're using it to make an Improvised melee attack, it is no longer a ranged weapon. It is now an Improvised melee weapon, which is to say, it isn't technically a weapon anymore at all.

I'd argue that there's nothing keeping you from still treating it as a ranged weapon (keeping its properties) being used to make a melee attack: the rules state:
"Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the GM’s option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus.

An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage (the GM assigns a damage type appropriate to the object). If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee Attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage. An improvised thrown weapon has a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet."

I would say that a heavy crossbow does not cease being a heavy crossbow during the moment you make the improvised attack, as the rules cover this case for attacking with ranged weapons. I would say rather it's both an improvised weapon and a ranged weapon at the same time.

[DivisibleByZero]

I'd argue that there's nothing keeping you from still treating it as a ranged weapon (keeping its properties) being used to make a melee attack: the rules state:
"Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the GM’s option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus.

An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage (the GM assigns a damage type appropriate to the object). If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee Attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage. An improvised thrown weapon has a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet."

I would say that a heavy crossbow does not cease being a heavy crossbow during the moment you make the improvised attack, as the rules cover this case for attacking with ranged weapons. I would say rather it's both an improvised weapon and a ranged weapon at the same time.

You'll notice that the sentence you're referring to immediately follows the sentence which explains what happens when you're using something which doesn't resemble a weapon. That placement is not arbitrary.
That's because a crossbow, when used as a club, does not resemble a club in any way.
It is not a crossbow. It is not being used as a crossbow. It does not retain the properties of a crossbow. It's an improvised weapon that does not resemble a real weapon. An Improvised weapon that does not resemble a real weapon has zero properties.

[Samwich]

So as it turns out, it is possible for a character to run 302 mph in D&D.

This requires a super power gaming, high level build that a friend and I figured out in physics class.

Start with the tabaxi race. They have a base move of 30 feet per round. Then, take 16 levels of monk, alongside 4 levels of barbarian. The monk gives you +25 feet of movement, and the barbarian gives +10 feet, for a total speed of 65 feet per round. Then, you need to take the epic boon of speed, which gives a +30 speed, for 95 feet per round.

Now, the tabaxi comes into play. They have a racial ability that allows them to double their movement for one round, bringing it up to 190 feet per round. Then, have a wizard cast haste. Haste doubles the targets movement speed, making it a whopping 380 feet per round. For the trick to work now, the character must spend their full action moving. Here is the turn order they must take:

Movement phase: move 380 feet
Standard Action: Players may dash as a standard action, moving double their speed. This allows them to move another 760 feet.
Bonus Action: The epic boon of speed allows you to dash again as a bonus action, moving another 760 feet
Second Bonus Action: Haste allows the player to dash again as an additional action, moving another 760 feet

So now, the character has moved 2660 feet in exactly 6 seconds. Converted to mph, this comes out as 302 mph. That being said, the tabaxi ability requires you to move 0 feet on your next turn to use it again, so you only have super sprint for a while. Of course, even without the extra tabaxi movement, you're still going over 100 mph, so just time that extra burst carefully.

[Potato_Priest]

Start with the tabaxi race. They have a base move of 30 feet per round. Then, take 16 levels of monk, alongside 4 levels of barbarian. The monk gives you +25 feet of movement, and the barbarian gives +10 feet, for a total speed of 65 feet per round. Then, you need to take the epic boon of speed, which gives a +30 speed, for 95 feet per round.


The barbarian's speed increase comes at lvl 5.

Why no mobile feat?

[Samwich]

The barbarian's speed increase comes at lvl 5.

Why no mobile feat?

Sorry, you're right. I made a mistake about when barbarians get their move speed, so you would actually need a level 5 barbarian and a level 15 monk. Luckily, that doesn't affect move speed increase.

As for the mobile feat, I completely forgot it existed, but it would raise the speed to 320 mph

[dejarnjc]

I'd argue that there's nothing keeping you from still treating it as a ranged weapon (keeping its properties) being used to make a melee attack: the rules state:
"Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the GM’s option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus.

An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage (the GM assigns a damage type appropriate to the object). If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee Attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage. An improvised thrown weapon has a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet."

I would say that a heavy crossbow does not cease being a heavy crossbow during the moment you make the improvised attack, as the rules cover this case for attacking with ranged weapons. I would say rather it's both an improvised weapon and a ranged weapon at the same time.

I'd never allow it and expect most DMs wouldn't but it looks like the rules "technically" support it haha.

[ThePolarBear]

Movement phase: move 380 feet
Standard Action: Players may dash as a standard action, moving double their speed. This allows them to move another 760 feet.
Bonus Action: The epic boon of speed allows you to dash again as a bonus action, moving another 760 feet
Second Bonus Action: Haste allows the player to dash again as an additional action, moving another 760 feet


Uhm... am i missing something or you are adding a little bit too much? Even discounting that i personally think that multipliers are added together and not multiplied (but honestly i do not remember if this is a rule-leftover from older editions and not actually in 5e so won't count on it) you are doubling the speed while dashing but dashing only adds their speed to the amount one can move in a round. So:

105 (with Mobile)
*4 = 420
*4 = 1680

Still very impressive. Am i forgetting something along the way?

[Aett_Thorn]

Uhm... am i missing something or you are adding a little bit too much? Even discounting that i personally think that multipliers are added together and not multiplied (but honestly i do not remember if this is a rule-leftover from older editions and not actually in 5e so won't count on it) you are doubling the speed while dashing but dashing only adds their speed to the amount one can move in a round. So:

105 (with Mobile)
*4 = 420
*4 = 1680

Still very impressive. Am i forgetting something along the way?

He is adding a bit too much. Even with a 'base' speed of 380 feet per round, using the Dash action only increases the speed by 380, not 760. Meaning that with a base of 380, Dash for 380, Boon for another 380, and Haste for an extra 380, you have a total of 1,520 feet of movement speed. This is still equal to 172 mph, which is impressive.

I mean, consider that one of the fastest men alive, Usain Bolt, can only get up to about 23 mph, running at 172 mph would be an incredible feat.

[DivisibleByZero]

So as it turns out, it is possible for a character to run 302 mph in D&D.

This requires a super power gaming, high level build that a friend and I figured out in physics class.

Start with the tabaxi race.
<snip>
So now, the character has moved 2660 feet in exactly 6 seconds

No.
Dash does not double your speed, it allows you to move your speed again. There's a difference.

Base speed 30
Monk increase +25
Barbarian increase +10
Epic Boon +30
Total base speed 95
That part was right.

Tabaxi doubles that for one turn.
Total speed 190
That part was also right.

Here's what happens next:
Move: 190
Action: Dash 190
Bonus Action: Dash 190
Haste special Action: Dash 190
No such thing as a second bonus action that you included
Total movement: 760

Mobile brings it to 840 (base 105, Tabaxi makes it 210, multiplied by 4 moves)

[furby076]

Mystic combo

Run and jump off a cliff (cause HECK YEA)
Baleful Transposition
If the target makes the save, then bonus action "There and Back again" to save yourself from falling off a cliff. The "back again" portion of the rules says "Can" - so you don't have to transport yourself back to the cliff.

Either way, it looks awesome. Work with your warlock to HEX to make the saves at disadvantage

[Easy_Lee]

No.
Dash does not double your speed, it allows you to move your speed again. There's a difference.

Base speed 30
Monk increase +25
Barbarian increase +10
Epic Boon +30
Total base speed 95
That part was right.

Tabaxi doubles that for one turn.
Total speed 190
That part was also right.

Here's what happens next:
Move: 190
Action: Dash 190
Bonus Action: Dash 190
Haste special Action: Dash 190
No such thing as a second bonus action that you included
Total movement: 760

Mobile brings it to 840 (base 105, Tabaxi makes it 210, multiplied by 4 moves)

This looks right to me. There are other items and spells that can assist, but honestly...under what circumstances does a player need to move more than 300 feet in a round, let alone 840?

[Aett_Thorn]

Mystic combo

Run and jump off a cliff (cause HECK YEA)
Baleful Transposition
If the target makes the save, then bonus action "There and Back again" to save yourself from falling off a cliff. The "back again" portion of the rules says "Can" - so you don't have to transport yourself back to the cliff.

Either way, it looks awesome. Work with your warlock to HEX to make the saves at disadvantage

Hex doesn't cause SAVES to be made at disadvantage, just ability checks, just FYI.

[ThePolarBear]

He is adding a bit too much.

I was also adding the Mobile feat.



Haste special Action: Dash 190
No such thing as a second bonus action that you included
Total movement: 760

Mobile brings it to 840 (base 105, Tabaxi makes it 210, multiplied by 4 moves)

Haste also doubles movement speed, the second bonus action was the Haste action.

---

On another note, what are other non-class sources of speed? Longstrider for a +10 can be achieved via feat... anything else?

[DivisibleByZero]

I was also adding the Mobile feat.
Haste also doubles movement speed, the second bonus action was the Haste action.

I had forgotten about that part of Haste. But the second bonus action doesn't exist. It's an independent free action. That's what confused me about it.
So yeah, 380*4=1520
420*4=1680 with Mobile
Either way, we were both wrong.
:smallsmile:

[Aett_Thorn]

The Green Goblin:

Class: Artificer (Alchemist)
Race: Goblin (duh), but any race would work as long as you have a good disguise for the extra-long nose
Background: Sage (Alchemist), replace one of the language proficiencies with prof in Disguise Kit

At level 6, give yourself a nice giant flying mechanical beastie, and ride it around dropping pumpkin bombs potions on your enemies.

[ThePolarBear]

Either way, we were both wrong.
:smallsmile:

:confused: How does me telling you that the second bonus action was the haste action makes me wrong? How does me clarifying what they meant make me wrong?
It makes me as wrong as you that call it the "Haste special action".

Also notice that "Haste allows the player to dash again as an additional action" is clearly stated, so i guess they were informed about the difference and that "Bonus Action" and "Second Bonus Action" imply "bonus" as gift, not as "bonus action" mechanics.

[DivisibleByZero]

:confused: How does me telling you that the second bonus action was the haste action makes me wrong? How does me clarifying what they meant make me wrong?
It makes me as wrong as you that call it the "Haste special action".

Also notice that "Haste allows the player to dash again as an additional action" is clearly stated, so i guess they were informed about the difference and that "Bonus Action" and "Second Bonus Action" imply "bonus" as gift, not as "bonus action" mechanics.

The math. We, as in the original math, and my own. Both.

[ThePolarBear]

The math. We, as in the original math, and my own. Both.

We as You - plural - not we as me and you. So now it's we, all three!

... i really wanted to be in the club :biggrin:

[DivisibleByZero]

We as You - plural - not we as me and you. So now it's we, all three!

... i really wanted to be in the club :biggrin:

Congratulations! By misreading what I meant, you were wrong, and have been elected Treasurer of the club!