No miss negative lvl spells

[solooize]

Looking to figure out what is the best spell to do negitive lvls with ... Just say I have to overcome a player with 10000 ac and I think no miss spells would be the best choice ... excited they all seem weaker ...

1. What spell would you use?
2. How would you make it better?
3. Can swarm get fell drain added on?
4. Is there a aura for negative lvl damage I could use?

[SirNibbles]

Fell Drain:
Magic Missile
Scorching Ray + Lens of Ray Widening

Use Sculpt Spell (Complete Arcane, page 83) to make your area spells overlap for 4x drain when using Fell Drain.

[Zanos]

You could use the Fell Drain metamagic on any spell that automatically hits. I think Sonic Snap is the favorite cantrip for this because it does 1 damage in an AoE. Arcane Thesis(Sonic Snap) will let you do Fell Drain Quickened Twin Sonic Snap + Fell Drain Twin Sonic Snap every round for 4 negative levels out of a 7th and 4th level slot.


a player with 10000
I think there's something else going on here, though.

[solooize]

No he is just going to be spending alot of gold to get it up and that's pretty epic lvl

[Necroticplague]

1. What spell would you use?

Sonic Snap. The save is only for the save, the damage is guaranteed. Cantrip means you have more room to metamagic it.

2. How would you make it better?
Metamagic. Twin Repeat Fell Drain is just off the top of my head for a good chunk of negative levels without needing any questionable rulings. Quicken to get another few in. Obviously, standard metamagic reducers to make this possible.

3. Can swarm get fell drain added on?Please, do clarify, I'm not sure what you mean by this. Assuming you mean 'summon swarm' spell, then no. That spell doesn't do damage, so is ineligible for Fell Drain.

4. Is there an aura for negative lvl damage I could use?
?
what do you mean 'negative level damage'? There's the Negative Energy Aura spell, but that damage is very minimal.


Depending on your level, Shapechanging into a Drowned could also overcome your problem. Constitution checks aren't easy to boost, and the DC just keep rising. And if he has that kind of AC, he's probably gonna turtle it up as well.

[solooize]

You were correct on the swarm

And an aura that could apply fell drain basically what I was meaning

[ExLibrisMortis]

If you have an aura spell that deals damage, you can apply Fell Drain. You can add damage to any spell by using Snowcasting + Flash Frost, but that takes a lot of feats (and snow).

[Eldariel]

So, to level drain without a roll. Acid Fog with Fell Drain doubles as keeping the enemy in and draining them. Add Forcecage and Dimensional Lock and readied action to cast another Forcecage if they break the first one.

Enervating Breath [Spell Compendium] adds it to your breath weapon. You can Shapechange to gain one. You could also Shapechange (or Polymorph with Assume Supernatural Ability [Savage Species]/Metamorphic Transfer) into a Shadow Dragon [Draconomicon] for the same effect. You can also just Animate Dead a Shadow Dragon into a Zombie Dragon as per (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?499642-Best-Dragon-to-Zombie-Dragon)[Draconomicon] and outsource this. Great Wyrm is easily within a level 10 control pool and you can use magic (Polymorph Any Object or such) to create or find a body. Breaths offer no saves or anything.

What else...Blackwater Taint [Stormwrack] makes an area of water cause negative levels. Combine with Control/Create Water for great success. It only ticks once tho, and save negates. Ghost Storm (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20041022a) is similar; brutal for those who can fail saves. All the others mostly require a touch attack to hit, but Fell Drain is a good one.

Though frankly, if someone is investing that heavily in their defense, how come they are vulnerable to negative levels? Immunity is quite easy to come by.

[solooize]

And it is easy to over come

[Silva Stormrage]

If this is epic levels you can also just use limited wish and do the standard enervation metamagic abuse. Limited wish can make the next attack roll auto hit regardless of the enemy's AC.

Still wondering what epic level character isn't immune to negative levels at this point though.

[Zanos]

If this is epic levels you can also just use limited wish and do the standard enervation metamagic abuse. Limited wish can make the next attack roll auto hit regardless of the enemy's AC.
I don't see that option.

[Westhart]

Are you sure that he is even susceptible to negative levels? I know it has been mentioned before, and there are so many ways of gaining immunity... hell soulfire (armor +4?/+5?) gives immunity to it... deathwatch... and there are several others but those are just basic... I feel bad for the player who manages to scrape 10,000 AC (Must be really epic...) and does not have immunity to negative levels... It is like using poison at level 18, w/out certain things it is not worth it, and even then... poison immunity is rather common. If he is susceptible to negative levels I would check out ability damage as it may take him out a lot faster... shivering touch (?) from the frost based book... Geesh, can't rememeber the name XD. Does a high amount of damage, you could put reach (metamagic or archmage level) on it, and possibly fell drain...

WAIT, this is epic...
...you are an epic caster...
...and you are worried about AC :smalltongue:

[Anthrowhale]

I don't see that option.

It's via Surge of Fortune. Surge of Fortune + Vorpal Sword is more impressive in most settings. Surge of Fortune + Sense Weakness with a Scythe using maximized power attack is also fun. But, Surge of Fortune + Twin Maximized Enervation is 8 negative levels to a vulnerable target.

[The Viscount]

I don't see that option.

It's here, in the last bulleted line.

Produce any other effect whose power level is in line with the above effects, such as a single creature automatically hitting on its next attack or taking a -7 penalty on its next saving throw.

[solooize]

I've found away around the immunity to negitive lvls I just have to make sure I do damage to apply fell drain...dm helped me since I'm playing with ppl who have been playing 8+ years ...and I'm on my first

[Eldariel]

I've found away around the immunity to negitive lvls I just have to make sure I do damage to apply fell drain...dm helped me since I'm playing with ppl who have been playing 8+ years ...and I'm on my first

I do recommend looking into breath weapons too. Turn into a Mature Adult Shadow Dragon (from 25CL Shapechange) and persist Enervating Breath. If they fail save, 5 + 2d4 negative levels, if they succeed, 2+2d4. Then you can further metamagic enervating breath. But the big thing is, this way you don't need to deal damage; as long as they aren't immune and completely ignoring your damage, this works. And you can have any number of Great Wyrm Shadow Dragon Zombies to complement you.

[solooize]

I was thinking more along the lines of thrallerd 100 guys dealing 1 negative lvl ...but I could easily do the dragon ...I'll be dread necro / int. Of seventh veil / erudite / thrallerd <gestalt unless you guys think I could do better

[Eldariel]

I was thinking more along the lines of thrallerd 100 guys dealing 1 negative lvl ...but I could easily do the dragon ...I'll be dread necro / int. Of seventh veil / erudite / thrallerd <gestalt unless you guys think I could do better

Thanks to the existence of Command Undead, there's no real limit to the number of Shadow Dragon Zombies you can have lying around so that seems the most convenient, at 8 negative levels each.

[solooize]

That does sound sexy ..I think I'll need to buff him up a little

[weckar]

Depending on the source of the AC, touch attacks may well suffice. Or you could use the weird wording of the Caltrops spell and make fell drain caltrops.

[solooize]

It will be mainly all deflection ac so that's a no go

[weckar]

Caltrops IGNORES deflection. Rather the point.

[Calthropstu]

Caltrops IGNORES deflection. Rather the point.

If only you could make vorpal caltrops...

[Westhart]

If only you could make vorpal caltrops...

That is one of the most beautiful ideas I've heard in a while, Kudos.