Grapple based character 5E

[Zangief1983]

Hi all,

Playing my first campaign of 5E in two days. Need to make a grapple focused character and I'm not sure which one is most optimized to get the job done as I come from Pathfinder and over in that system the Tetori is king. Can someone tell me which race and class is suited best for grappling and which feats or build you would recommend please?

[Naanomi]

Race doesn't matter too much, though any race with a Strength bonus helps. There are several builds that do grappling well. Expertise (from rogue or bard) is important unless you have access to UA feats... extra Attack helps a lot as well. A way to get bigger also can be useful

I like battlemaster/lorebard multi-class... others recommend rogue/barbarians or even some Druid multi-classing

Tavern Brawler is nice, and some builds use Shield Master... Grappler itself is awful

However; do note that you can't really be 'only' a grappler... it is a good tactic but not something you can rely on every battle

[Chugger]

This link (it's on one of our guide tables here) is really good. http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?468737-The-Grappler-s-Manual-%282-0%29-Grappling-in-5th-Edition

[NecessaryWeevil]

Expertise (from rogue or bard) is important


Just in case it's not clear, since you're new to 5e: this is in order to get your Athletics bonus as high as possible.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

The advantage of Rogue/Barbarian is gaining Expertise on Athletics and Advantage on strength checks through Rage.

Sneak attack requires a finesse weapon but it does not require you to use Dex to attack. Since grappling requires you to only use one handed weapons anyway, you can just stab the people you grab with a rapier using Strength and combine the bonuses.

[Rogue_1]

First, you want to go over the strengths and weaknesses of a grapple build. If the idea is something you're really devoted to, then play away with it, laughing as he suffocates enemies. Or, he might encounter a horde of kobolds and go under a screeching wave as they swarm him. So. . . yeah.

Grappler Pros
- Shutdown capability on a wide range of single targets
- Extreme battlefield control options
- Effective, repeated damage against single targets
- Fun to play, melds very well with teammates

Grappler Cons
- No reliable AoE damage
- Relatively low damage rates
- Ineffective against much larger/stronger enemies

Uhh, if there's anything I've missed, please do tell me - always love suggestions!

I recall building a grapple build designed to shut down spellcasters. He was 20th level, but it worked extremely well with a relatively low amount of magic items. For me, I usually always go lizardfolk or goliath for grapplers for their various utility features. I would recommend lizardfolk, because they're very beefy, capable of absorbing a lot of damage, and heavily protected by natural armor and their vampiric bite action. Go mainly barbarian, because their Rage feature will provide a great boost to your grappling capability. I would say that the best arguable route for this build is climbing to 3rd level barbarian, dropping a level or two into Rogue for Expertise (Athletics) or Cunning Action (Dodge/Dash/Disengage for mobility boost). After this, fighter, barbarian, and monk are all relatively good grapple classes, but my final build looked a bit like this : Barbarian (Totem Warrior) 17/Assassin 3. He picked up Tavern Brawler, because a lizardfolk's bite states it's a natural weapon, allowing you to use it in conjunction with Tavern Brawler's free grapple, as well as Mobile to slip past the front line of enemies. Overall, he ended up completely shutting down enemy spellcasters in a round or less, with the help of a cleric's silence spell in a Ring of Spell Storing. Dash up w/ Cunning Action, attack anyone between you and the spellcaster, use Mobile to continue past them, then if possible, use your left over attack from Barbarian level 5 against the spellcaster, then grapple them ASAP. If you have access to the silence spell, perhaps from Shadow Monk or another class or magical item, get it off as soon as possible. It won't hinder you much, but for a spellcaster, being grappled and unable to speak is basically a death sentence. I actually considered going Thief to be able to snatch their component pouches while I strangled them, but I opted for a different build. This is how I pictured it : Bandits come walking through the forest, their wizard whistling happily in the middle as they walk past a tree-ringed pond. A second later, a figure flashes across, grabbing the wizard and leaping into the pool, where they both presumably drown. *SPOILER ALERT:* the lizardfolk didn't. Use any water sources nearby to their maximum capability, because with that 15-minute hold breath feature, you're going to end up being somewhat like the Loch Ness Monster.

Good luck!

Edit : I also picked up a shield to not interfere with my ridiculously high Natural Armor/Unarmored Defense AC. It ended up around 25, so maybe Shield Master would be circumstantially useful? I dunno.

[Varlon]

I also picked up a shield to not interfere with my ridiculously high Natural Armor/Unarmored Defense AC. It ended up around 25, so maybe Shield Master would be circumstantially useful? I dunno.

Did you play that character from 1-20? Lucky you if so, because it Natural Armor and Unarmored Defense don't actually stack.

[Zangief1983]

Race doesn't matter too much, though any race with a Strength bonus helps. There are several builds that do grappling well. Expertise (from rogue or bard) is important unless you have access to UA feats... extra Attack helps a lot as well. A way to get bigger also can be useful

I like battlemaster/lorebard multi-class... others recommend rogue/barbarians or even some Druid multi-classing

Tavern Brawler is nice, and some builds use Shield Master... Grappler itself is awful

However; do note that you can't really be 'only' a grappler... it is a good tactic but not something you can rely on every battle

What are UA feats? And would I have to multi class I've never played this game before. Is grappling not like it is in Pathfinder, where a hero can completely dedicate himself to just that one niche?

[prototype00]

What are UA feats? And would I have to multi class I've never played this game before. Is grappling not like it is in Pathfinder, where a hero can completely dedicate himself to just that one niche?

Unearthed Arcana, i.e. Stuff that has been released for public play test but is not legal in official games (Adventurer's League) most of the brokenly good stuff can be found here.

As to Multiclassing, even in Pathfinder a straight Tetori monk would be outclassed by a Monk/Druid of equal level, if only because the Druid can become a huge Allosaurus.

Same with 5e, Barbarian/Rogue ends up being the best grappler because of synergy.

[Citan]

Hi all,

Playing my first campaign of 5E in two days. Need to make a grapple focused character and I'm not sure which one is most optimized to get the job done as I come from Pathfinder and over in that system the Tetori is king. Can someone tell me which race and class is suited best for grappling and which feats or build you would recommend please?
Hi!

Honestly, you have several ways to get at it.
The most important things to get are...
- Expertise (Rogue get it at first level, Bard at 3): because it means double bonus on proficiency.
- Advantage on checks: main ways are Barbarian's Rage, or Enlarge spell, or Enhance Ability.
- Resilience: because you will sustain attacks from your grappled target.

Beyond that, nothing can beat Rogue's Reliable Talent, but that is a level 11 ability so it basically pigeonhole you into Rogue chassis. Not a bad thing per se, but you may like other classes more...

So, technically the aforementioned things are enough to be "good at grappling". Now the thing is, what will you use grappling for?
It your main objective is to just pin down someone in place, then you will want to Shove also, and be extra defensive (because creature's friends will be close and will gang up on you).
If your main objective is to move someone, then extra speed should be a priority, because dragging a creature halves your speed.
If you are unsure of what tactics you will use the most, then versatility should be your end goal.

Considering that let me propose you a few builds.

1. Pure martial build, "pinner".
Rogue 2 / Bear Barbarian 5 / Battlemaster 3 / whatever you'd like for the remaining ten.
From Battlemaster, pick Defense style and Trip Attack / Evasive Footwork / Menacing attack manoeuvers.
Grab Grappler feat, then...
- Either go one-handed finesse, taking Defensive Duelist after you reach character level 10...
- Or grab Tavern Brawler to wield a shield (improved defense) while bashing enemy with it (Shield Master may be another option, or mandatory if you have a non-Evoker blaster that never cares about you).
In any case, start Fighter for all armor proficiency.
Rogue helps you with Expertise (better grappling) and mobility (Cunning Action).

For the remaining levels, several options: Rogue 11 for Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, Reliable Talent, or Monk for better resilience if you have high enough WIS ("Dodge as bonus action" does not require you to be unarmored).

2. Pure martial build, "dragger".
Rogue 2 / Battlemaster 3 / Open Hand Monk X. Or Rogue 11 / Monk 9.
You get much more mobility, on which you can stack Evasive Footwork when you need to cross enemy lines (this allows you to keep your bonus action to Dash).

Now for where the true fun begins, taking magic into account.

The Radiant Sinkhole
Cleric 5 (Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon), Monk 6, Rogue 2, whatever else (I like some Druid but it depends on many things).
Basic idea here is to cast Spirit Guardians then get as many enemies as possible into its radius and keep them there (pulling/grappling/shoving/Commanding them), while avoiding too much damage (defense buff, enemy debuff).
Note that as soon as you plan on using a shield or grappling two creatures, Warcaster is the feat to take ASAP.

Options:

- Monk: if you plan on being offensive, then Open Hand Monk will give you the best economy ratio by providing free shove on Flurry of Blows. If you plan on being defensive (like keeping two people grappled), Long Death Monk's "fear as an action" will synergize extremely well. Also, Evasion at level 7 is really great, and as far as resilience go, nobody can beat Long Death Monk's 11 feature.

- Druid: Thorns Whip is a great tool to pull creatures towards you: in addition, you get several great spells including Longstrider. If you get Land Druid 6, Plant Growth will become your best friend: you are unaffected, others are, and it stacks with Spirit Guardians by RAW* so enemies will be totally unable to move.
*In truth, from what I know, there has never been any official explanation as to how resolve the stack of "difficult terrain move at half speed" and "spend 4 feet to move 1" so ask your DM, he has to create his own ruling on this). I would totally resolve it as mathematical stack so 8 feet spent to actually move 1 feet, per ROC. ;)

- Cleric domain: Life if you took Druid (Life Goodberries), Nature if you want heavy armor (note you lose extra speed!!) or want just one Druid cantrip, Knowledge if you want skills, Trickery otherwise for extra defense.

- Sorcerer: if you have enough CHA, many Cleric spells (and some Druid ones) will strongly benefit from Extended (especially Aid), Twin (especially Shield of Faith/Warding Bond) or Quickened (Spirit Guardians). Plus you can grab Shield for that extra layer of defense, as well as Enhance Ability to grab advantage on checks.

- Bard: Lore Bard brings to you Healing Words, Enhance Ability, Jack of all Trades, but more importantly Cutting Words, which you can use to reduce the contesting check of an enemy you want to grapple.

- Rogue: Uncanny Dodge is usually tempting, but in your case you will want several enemies around you so it won't be enough: better grab Shield spell. If you plan on going the "grapple one enemy and smack him" way, then it's a good idea since you will also get Sneak Attack damage anyways.

- Paladin: honestly not a good idea unless a) you don't care about Martial Arts and extra speed from Monk (so you can go heavy armor and shield) and b) you have enough STR and CHA to manage. Even then, since this build's focus is to use Spirit Guardians every encounter, blowing on nova kinda goes against the goal.

- Fighter: Battlemaster for Trip/Evasive/Fear can always be useful.

- Wizard: the "worst" class to multiclass into considering how MAD it makes you, just put here for reference about Diviner (2 rerolls) and spells like Shield and Enlarge.

The Shepherd Falcon
Goal here is to get as much speed and evasion as possible to grapple enemy where you want them (in your own backline so everyone gang up on him, in an AOE, or in the air).
Not many ways to do this really.
Monk is the obvious chassis (unless you want the niche Draconic Sorcerer one, see far below ;)).
You also want Longstrider.
You also want either Fly, or Haste, or both.
You also want Cunning Action to spare kis on Dash.
You still want Expertise.
Either go Rogue 2 / Druid 1 (Create Bonfire, Longstrider) / 4E Monk 17(Fly). Or drop Druid and take Magic Initiate to get Empty Body in the end.
Or instead pick Rogue 2 / Grassland Druid 6 (Haste) / Long Death Monk X (with any of the options explained above).

Of course, if you have someone in your party that would agree to regularly use Fly or Haste on you, pick the other. :)

With only a Monk 6 (+15 feet), a prebuff Longstrider (+10) on a good movement race (Wood Elf: 35 feet -unless Aarakocra is allowed in your game in which case it's obviously the best), your base speed is 60 feet. Haste will usually be the best buff because Fly "just" gives you a base 60 feet fly speed, wherease Haste doubles your movement AND give you another Dash. So directly negates the dragging penalty and still gives you more speed.
So under a Haste you can...
- Move up to 60 (normal) +60 (Haste Dash) speed while still getting your full turn ("random" example: Extra Attack grapple, bonus action Disengage or Flurry of Blows grapple), or even add Cunning Action Dash if needed.

Note that, if you are the one casting Haste on you, Warcaster AND proficiency in constitution saves are necessary, unless you have allies buffing you (Shield of Faith, Warding Bond, Protection).

Note also that, if you want to pair with an AOE blaster, you will really want Monk's Evasion or Shield Master, as well as Absorb Elements from Druid, or someone casting Warding Bond / Protection from Energy on you.

The other way to go at it is Draconic Sorcerer 14 / Open Hand Monk 5 / Rogue 1, grabbing Warcaster, using (Quickened) Haste on your fly speed to grab enemies and drop them from heights. But, you know, this would be coming veeeeerry late so that's why I don't detail it. ;)

The Smasher
Arcane Trickster 12 / Paladin 5 / Warlock 3 if you really want Reliable Talent...
Or Swashbuckler Rogue 5 / Draconic Sorcerer 6 / Paladin 6 then whatever you want.
Or Rogue 1 / EK 11 (Shield, Longstrider, Expeditious Retreat, Blindness, Enlarge) / Lore Bard 6 (Cutting Words, Elemental Weapon) / Paladin 2 (smite).
Idea here is to grapple someone then with Grappler feat beat him to a pulp with advantage and potential smite on top of that.

Have fun ;)

[GlenSmash!]

Bards that have expertise in athletics, and can Enlarge themselves to grapple Huge foes are good single classed grapplers.

Any flavor of Barbarian with Proficiency in Athletics will be good grapplers

High strength rogues with expertise in Athletics will be fine grapplers

Moon Druids make fine grapplers.

Battlemaster Fighters with proficiency in Athletics make fine grapplers.

There are a lot of single classed that work fine as grapplers. It just that multiclassing lets you cherry pick the best features of the best classes to ultimately make a better grappler.

[Sans.]

- Relatively low damage rates
- Ineffective against much larger/stronger enemies


Thing is, that only happens if you're playing someone who literally only grapples. Otherwise you could have a character who grapples when there's only a few targets on the battlefield, and against hordes... out comes the old maul.

[Dudewithknives]

I am currently playing a grapple based character in Out of the Abyss, and so far it has worked very well. I will throw in some things I have noticed.

1. Most published monsters are not particularly great at Athletics/Acrobatics checks. So you can get by with just having a great strength and training for a good while, expertise is great but at level 1-4 that is only a +2, it better to find a way to get advantage on the roll.

2. Even more important in my opinion is having multiple attacks to make your checks with. A Strength based rogue will have a great check, but they will only ever be able to make 1 per round. At level 11 they will almost never lose the opposed roll but they still are doing nothing but grappling that turn.
Grapple is a good maneuver, grapple + shove is the gold standard. Shove being even more important because it give advantage to you and disadvantage to them. Grapple just hold them down.
A rogue grappler vs anyone with 2 attacks is never going to get anywhere because they will get opposed too much.

3. A continuation of number 2, PC classes get more attacks from using the attack action that can be used for a grapple, most monsters get multi-attack, which is not the same thing. Multi-attack has to spend their whole multi-attack to try to break free, a class with more attacks per attack action can try once per attack they use.

4. It is not an attack roll, it is a skill check. So things that give disadvantage on attacks like darkness, vicious mockery, or whatever, do not give disadvantage on the grapple check.

5. Dragging people around is great, dragging people around with a climb speed is even better. Grapple and then climbing 20+ feet up a wall is great, keep going, moving does not cost you an action.

6. Dragging into or keeping someone in a zone of a spell is gold. Grappling and knocking prone that full caster in the zone of silence is a death sentence.


TL:DR version:

1. Get multiple attacks first
2. Try to get advantage/expertise on athletics, with a feat like brawny for expertise is nice.
3. Be party friendly.


A solid version:

Human Variant barbarian - Battlerager (never met a DM yet that enforces the dwarf only part)
Feat: Brawny
Start with 16/17 str, rest of stats however you like.
When raging you will have expertise and advantage on Athletics which is huge.
Carry a versatile weapon, not a shield.
If not grappling use the weapon 2 handed, if you grapple wield 1 handed and grapple/prone them.

[Rogue_1]

Did you play that character from 1-20? Lucky you if so, because it Natural Armor and Unarmored Defense don't actually stack.

Yeah, I am aware that the two don't stack, and no I didn't. My DM decided to run a 17th-level adventure in a campaign where wizards ruled the world, so I decided to create a character that could shut them down relatively easily. The cleric's aid helped XD. Actually, it ended up with the party rogue falling through an infinite void and the fighter barbarian in a maze spell sustained by a cadre of high-level wizards. When I said, "You won't be stuck in one permanently, just until you succeed at a DC 20 Intelligence che-bwahahhahahahahahhahahahahaa" *falls off chair*

[Rogue_1]

Thing is, that only happens if you're playing someone who literally only grapples. Otherwise you could have a character who grapples when there's only a few targets on the battlefield, and against hordes... out comes the old maul.

Yup, I would advise this two, but I believe this thread was built around a grapple-focused character, so I just gave my thoughts on that matter. I understand that keeping some sort of weapon in backup (perhaps a mace of terror for some AoE battlefield control) would be an optimal situation, but sometimes this isn't always the case. . . *cough, jail, cough hack wheeze*

[Eric Diaz]

One thing to keep in mind is that the grappler feat is really bad, even for a grappler.

[Citan]

One thing to keep in mind is that the grappler feat is really bad, even for a grappler.
Oh my god, not again...
This is just horribly wrong, grappler feat is not bad per se, it can be great or just lackluster depending on why and how you build a grappler.
Please confer to that thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?536808-Barbarian-Rogue-(Thief-this-is-important)-Grappler) and this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22389023&postcount=31) (from linked post onwards).
Basically, for any grappler that has high sustained or nova damage relying on few weapon attacks, and is wielding neither a shield nor a two-handed weapon, Grappler is a perfectly fine feat to take as a specialist... Unless he has other sustainable way(s) to get advantage on his attacks, whether alone or with a friend's help.

So for example if you want to make a build with Barbarian, then it's lackluster simply because you can use Reckless Attack (although it does make you more vulnerable to grappled creature attacks, which is a drawback Grappler avoids, thus greatly improving your overall resilience).
But since the best overall Grappler is one that can buff himself with Enlarge (meaning no Barbarian so no Reckless Attack, nor advantage-giving spell such as Faerie Fire / Darkness / Greater Invisibility)... :)

[Eric Diaz]

Oh my god, not again...
This is just horribly wrong, grappler feat is not bad per se, it can be great or just lackluster depending on why and how you build a grappler.
Please confer to that thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?536808-Barbarian-Rogue-(Thief-this-is-important)-Grappler) and this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22389023&postcount=31) (from linked post onwards).
Basically, for any grappler that has high sustained or nova damage relying on few weapon attacks, and is wielding neither a shield nor a two-handed weapon, Grappler is a perfectly fine feat to take as a specialist... Unless he has other sustainable way(s) to get advantage on his attacks, whether alone or with a friend's help.

So for example if you want to make a build with Barbarian, then it's lackluster simply because you can use Reckless Attack (although it does make you more vulnerable to grappled creature attacks, which is a drawback Grappler avoids, thus greatly improving your overall resilience).
But since the best overall Grappler is one that can buff himself with Enlarge (meaning no Barbarian so no Reckless Attack, nor advantage-giving spell such as Faerie Fire / Darkness / Greater Invisibility)... :)

Yeah, I've seen it all and I still think grappler is a bad feat.

But sure, for specific feats and specific situations it can be good.

[Dudewithknives]

Oh my god, not again...
This is just horribly wrong, grappler feat is not bad per se, it can be great or just lackluster depending on why and how you build a grappler.
Please confer to that thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?536808-Barbarian-Rogue-(Thief-this-is-important)-Grappler) and this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22389023&postcount=31) (from linked post onwards).
Basically, for any grappler that has high sustained or nova damage relying on few weapon attacks, and is wielding neither a shield nor a two-handed weapon, Grappler is a perfectly fine feat to take as a specialist... Unless he has other sustainable way(s) to get advantage on his attacks, whether alone or with a friend's help.

So for example if you want to make a build with Barbarian, then it's lackluster simply because you can use Reckless Attack (although it does make you more vulnerable to grappled creature attacks, which is a drawback Grappler avoids, thus greatly improving your overall resilience).
But since the best overall Grappler is one that can buff himself with Enlarge (meaning no Barbarian so no Reckless Attack, nor advantage-giving spell such as Faerie Fire / Darkness / Greater Invisibility)... :)

Every grappler has easy access to advantage, it is called shove.

With them grappled they can't get up either, and don't have to spend an ASI on a waste of a feat.

With rage all enlarge does is add 1d4 damage really.

Why use reckless attack and give them all advantage when you can just shove, you are already going to be good at the check.

[GlenSmash!]

With rage all enlarge does is add 1d4 damage really.

You forgot that Enlarge lets you grapple creatures that are Huge size. Normal Medium or small size creatures cannot do this.

It's less important if you have another way of getting to Large size like through wildshape or being a Werebear.

[Citan]

Every grappler has easy access to advantage, it is called shove.

With them grappled they can't get up either, and don't have to spend an ASI on a waste of a feat.

With rage all enlarge does is add 1d4 damage really.

Why use reckless attack and give them all advantage when you can just shove, you are already going to be good at the check.
I WON'T repeat myself once again. Please actually read those threads I linked to for some enlightenement (including examples of characters which would strongly benefit from Grappler feat, or those who just cannot chain Shove and Grapple).

Just one thing, plz repeat after me... Grappling and Shoving do not provide the same benefits so are not for the same situations, so while there are many situations in which chaining them is good, there are also many ones in which you don't want to risk an extra check at the cost of another weapon attack when you could do something else instead.

[Naanomi]

Just one thing, plz repeat after me... Grappling and Shoving do not provide the same benefits so are not for the same situations, so while there are many situations in which chaining them is good, there are also many ones in which you don't want to risk an extra check at the cost of another weapon attack when you could do something else instead.
No one is saying it is totally worthless, instead:

1) the times when it is superior to grapple plus shove are rare, to the point of being corner-cases in regular play

2) restraining yourself for a pin is almost never worth the marginal difference between pinned and grappled+shoved, and take the same action/skill checks to achieve

3) The lack of a third benefit makes it notably lacking compared to the other 'three feature feats'

4) Because of 1-3 it is almost never worth the opportunity cost of spending an ASI on it, even for a very focused grappler

[Contrast]

Is grappling not like it is in Pathfinder, where a hero can completely dedicate himself to just that one niche?

Short answer: no.

Have a read in your PHB. All the grappled condition does intrinsically is reduce your movement to zero. It often gets combined with shoving someone prone (which gives you advantage to attack them and disadvantage for them to attack you) which takes half their movement to stand up...which they can't because they have zero move when grappled. Casters can still cast unhindered and if you haven't pushed them prone they can also attack unhindered.

I find its a bit of a trap at levels 1-4 in particular as it uses up your attack. Most times you'd be better off just hitting them with your sword. It's occasionally useful but certainly not the go to answer.

If you really want to get good at grappling you need particular feats and maybe multiclassing. If you're just getting started with 5E I wouldn't bother and just stick with the basics to start with and see what strikes your fancy. If you want someone who is good at grappling out of the box, go with a barbarian.


I WON'T repeat myself once again.

That's fine but be aware very few people still agree with you :smalltongue: I could see myself taking Grappler if I was playing a character where I was trying to grapple a lot and had already picked up the other ASIs and feats I wanted and was starting to fill in blanks. Even in that situation it'd be tough to convince myself Lucky or something wasn't better. You certainly could take it sooner but you haven't convinced me its better than the other options available.

That said, 5E is pretty forgiving on balance so I certainly don't think someone who took the feat would be unplayable and, as you say, it is situationally useful so if it appeals, knock yourself out. I'd say its only really bad if your table uses the flanking rule (which I disapprove of but every game I've played in recently the DM has wanted to use it :smallannoyed:).

[Citan]

No one is saying it is totally worthless, instead:

1) the times when it is superior to grapple plus shove are rare, to the point of being corner-cases in regular play.

2) restraining yourself for a pin is almost never worth the marginal difference between pinned and grappled+shoved, and take the same action/skill checks to achieve

I never told about using the pin action, that is plain stupid.
And the times when counting on a plain Grapple is superior to grapple & shove have been illustrated and demonstrated by me in the linked discussions.
In short: Grappler feat is great for any Monk (Stunning Strike + mobility), for Eldricht Knights (War Magic), for Paladins (smite, smite spells), for SG Clerics (obvious), good for Barbarian (avoids needing Reckless Attack) and niche Valor Bards (that grabbed environment spell), decent for Draconic Sorcerers (fly speed) and Arcane Tricksters (Sneak Attack).

So if someone wants to make a grapple specialist (let me repeat that: someone WANTS TO BE A EF**** SPECIALIST), this may be the definitive feat to take, or not, depending on his main goal. That's why I suggested several builds to OP.


Short answer: no.

Have a read in your PHB. All the grappled condition does intrinsically is reduce your movement to zero. It often gets combined with shoving someone prone (which gives you advantage to attack them and disadvantage for them to attack you) which takes half their movement to stand up...which they can't because they have zero move when grappled. Casters can still cast unhindered and if you haven't pushed them prone they can also attack unhindered.

You really should go make a health check, because there is a problem with either your comprehension or your reading apparently. ;)
Grapple only halves your movement while you keep someone. This is a very different thing.

[Dudewithknives]

I never told about using the pin action, that is plain stupid.
And the times when counting on a plain Grapple is superior to grapple & shove have been illustrated and demonstrated by me in the linked discussions.
In short: Grappler feat is great for any Monk (Stunning Strike + mobility), for Eldricht Knights (War Magic), for Paladins (smite, smite spells), for SG Clerics (obvious), good for Barbarian (avoids needing Reckless Attack) and niche Valor Bards (that grabbed environment spell), decent for Draconic Sorcerers (fly speed) and Arcane Tricksters (Sneak Attack).

So if someone wants to make a grapple specialist (let me repeat that: someone WANTS TO BE A EF**** SPECIALIST), this may be the definitive feat to take, or not, depending on his main goal. That's why I suggested several builds to OP.


You really should go make a health check, because there is a problem with either your comprehension or your reading apparently. ;)
Grapple only halves your movement while you keep someone. This is a very different thing.

Maybe you should check yours, he said the grappled condition, not grappling, reduces movement to zero.

That is exactly what it does, grappling someone reduces movement by half, having the grappled condition reduces it to zero.

[Naanomi]

I wouldn't call that feat *great* for anyone... one usable bonus: that gives advantage (not hard to get), only after using an action to grapple, and doesn't actually help grappling itself in any way?

If it was free or on a magic item I'd enjoy it... for the cost of an ASI? Virtually no way I'd ever take it... Stat increases, lucky, even Alert (for quicker controlling) are better grappler feats than Grappler

[Contrast]

So if someone wants to make a grapple specialist (let me repeat that: someone WANTS TO BE A EF**** SPECIALIST), this may be the definitive feat to take, or not, depending on his main goal. That's why I suggested several builds to OP.

In fairness OP also said they didn't really want to multi-class and all your suggested builds heavily multi-class. I feel it is likely that OP has come from Pathfinder with a misapprehension about what grappling can do in 5E and exactly how much benefit they will gain from focusing in grappling. I'm not sure there's any possible archetype someone could ask for that would make me recommend a 3 way split multi-class to someone who had never played 5E before.


You really should go make a health check, because there is a problem with either your comprehension or your reading apparently. ;)

The irony :smallbiggrin: My health is fine, thanks for asking - how are you feeling? :smalltongue:

[qube]

Can someone tell me which race and class is suited best for grappling and which feats or build you would recommend please?A barbarian (grapple is a strength(athletics) check, and rage gives you advantage on that) with 1 level rogue (doubles your proficiency bonus on athletics) is really all you need.
I in fact play a tabaxi grappler (totally not a race suited for grappling) and he still does a decent job.

Step 1: grapple
Step 2 Shove prone (can't get up until escapes from grapple)

As for far more optimal race, I would maybe suggest a goliath (both a strength boost - and 1/short rest damage reduction to help you tank better)


You forgot that Enlarge lets you grapple creatures that are Huge size. Normal Medium or small size creatures cannot do this.IIRC, this is incorrect.
Only able to grapple large creatures is only refered to in the Grapple feat (stating that you could grapple larger creatures with this feat), and has been errata'd, as it's not a rule you can only grapple up to large.

#CatchADragonByTheTail

[Varlon]

IIRC, this is incorrect.
Only able to grapple large creatures is only refered to in the Grapple feat (stating that you could grapple larger creatures with this feat), and has been errata'd, as it's not a rule you can only grapple up to large.

I'm no grappling rules expert, but the PHB does say in the Grappling section that "[t]he target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than you". The Grappler feat says "[c]reatures that are one size larger than you don’t automatically succeed on checks to escape your grapple" - escape, not avoid. The way I read it, the old rule was that you could grapple something one size larger than you, but they would automatically succeed when they tried to escape.

[GlenSmash!]

IRC, this is incorrect.
Only able to grapple large creatures is only refered to in the Grapple feat (stating that you could grapple larger creatures with this feat), and has been errata'd, as it's not a rule you can only grapple up to large.

I quote from the 5e System Reference Document, but if you would like I'll get my copy of the PHB out.

"Grappling
When you want to grab a creature or wrestle with it, you can use the Attack action to make a special melee attack, a grapple. If you’re able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them. The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than you..."

The rule that was cut that the 3rd bullet point of the Grappler feat applied to was that creatures one size larger than you automatically escape grapples.

Edit, I was curious so I verified the exact same text is indeed in page 179 of the PHB.

[Zaile]

Little late to the party, but figured I'd post some grapple content I've been using in Tomb of Annihilation game (L 6 currently). EK Fighter 5 going War Wizard 3, then not sure from there. Spells: Lightning Lure (you are scorpion), Enlarge/Reduce, Jump (ring). I got to grapple and toss grungs into lava, so satisfying. I have been following the guide in OP, very useful, but hasn't seen an update post-Xanathar's.

As for grapple-helping feats: Tavern Brawler > Prodigy > Warcaster > Mage Slayer > Shield Master (after nerf from Crawford)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grappler

"Brawny" feat for expertise. The UA skill feats here are much better and usable by all races. Only humans/half-X can select the official Prodigy feat from Xanathar's.
https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/UA-SkillFeats.pdf

"Unarmed" fighting style gives unarmed damage boost and bonus 1d4 to grappled creatures. Also has a Battlemaster maneuver "Restraining Strike" looks fun. https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/UA-ClassFeatures.pdf

Also started a thread a while back on homebrew option to make grappling a bit better https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?613176-Making-5e-Grappling-Better&p=24535776#post24535776

[Peelee]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: Grappling the dead is ill-advised.