Frequency of Stealth Checks Out of Combat

[Easy_Lee]

A rogue sneaks into a lair of giants. He's being stealthy, so the DM asks for a stealth check. Inside the lair, the rogue is going to take a series of actions. From there, DM choices vary significantly and determine how useful stealth is in general.

Does the DM compare the rogue's stealth check to enemy passive perceptions, or does he give each creature an active perception check to detect the rogue?
Does the DM take into consideration whether the creatures are alert and how far away the rogue stays from each creature?
Does the DM ask for a new stealth check when the rogue:

steals an object off of a table?
climbs down a ladder?
jumps down ten feet?
assassinates an unsuspecting guard?
opens a door?
enters a new room?
takes any action?


Every new stealth check is a chance for the rogue to fail. Active checks, particularly from multiple creatures, are much more likely to detect the rogue. The way a given DM handles the above has a massive impact on whether stealth is useful or not in that game.

How often do you ask for new stealth checks, and when do you use active versus passive perception?

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

If the perceiver isn't actively looking for something, they use the passive check, which helps the rogue quite a bit. In this case the only time the giants would be rolling is if they're aware of the rogue's existence and are actively looking for him, which may for instance happen once the rogue has done his damage and is making his shadowy getaway. Of course, if you have a whole lair of giants, it would be reasonable to postulate that they don't all have the exact same stat block/passive perception score. There might be some slightly wiser folks, or guards proficient in perception, dotted among the passive 10s.

As far as when the rogue has to roll again, and when to apply advantage/disadvantage, I believe the defense of 5e being vague is that it's highly context dependent. They trust the DM to resolve the issue better than a rigid universal rule set would. Even something as basic as distance providing disadvantage depends on location and circumstance. Whether the rogue rolls depends on whether it's reasonable and interesting for the rogue's behavior to be spotted. I would say that movement, including into a new room, is reasonably covered by one roll, so long as the rogue maintains the proper conditions for hiding. I would also say performing basic actions that are no easier to detect than skulking about (like palming something off a table that no one specifically is guarding or staring at) would also be part of that one roll. On the other extreme, some things would automatically cause a perceiver to notice you or at least something awry, like opening a door when someone is intently staring at the door, or assassinating Guard #1 while Guard #2 is looking right at him.

In the middle ground, the rogue has to roll again, possibly with advantage/disadvantage, because the rogue is doing something especially dangerous with a chance of success. This would include a less obvious killing, palming a MacGuffin that giants are specifically guarding (though even if the rogue is unnoticed someone might notice the MacGuffin is gone pretty soon), or if the rogue has to do obvious things like open and close doors to move around. Doors really are the bane of people trying to remain undetected.

[Cl0001]

I would personally use passive perception checks for everyone unless they are on guard or notice something is off (eg. someone is killed/missing, something is stolen). I would make the rogue make new checks when he entered into a new area, or did something that could jeopardize him being hidden such as moving across an open area, attacking someone or taking something.

[Magic Myrmidon]

I recently discovered Burning Wheel's philosophy of "letting it ride".

Basically, you ask the player what they're going for. If they say, I'm trying to stealth from the door to the end of the hallway", I'll give them a pretty low DC, but that's all they get. If they say "I try to stealth from the gate to the King's throneroom at the top of the castle", it'll be a pretty freaking high DC, but if they succeed, then by golly, they make it to the King's throneroom.

...

At least, this is how I would LIKE to run it. In practice, I typically try to let the rogue keep his stealth roll until he does something that would prompt a new one. Mainly trying to attack an NPC (to see if they have a death yell or something), or do something noisy.

[Tanarii]

How often do you ask for new stealth checks, and when do you use active versus passive perception?
I use passive checks when the rules call for it:
- If a creature is doing a task repeatedly*, and you need the average result for a specific moment in time.
- If a creature is doing something where the dice can't be rolled and the result needs to be secret.
- If the rules say to use it.

At least two out of the three of these are typically the case for Perception.

On the roll for stealth side, as with all checks, I ask for one check to resolve the entirety of the circumstances needing to be resolved. (This typically means calling for it at the beginning and then holding the result until things change significantly due to the character's actions.) What that covers is variable and depends on my judgement of the circumstances in game. But IMO it's very hard to keep being Stealthy for a long period of time without changing the circumstances if you're moving around doing things. I'm quite proud of this not-an-answer answer. Tldr: It depends. :smallbiggrin:

(*Not the same thing as doing the same task over and over again trying to succeed where you failed. That's the automatic success rule.)

[DivisibleByZero]

Does the DM ask for a new stealth check when the rogue:

Many of your examples would potentially require a new stealth check from me, but most of those would be dependent upon the situation. There is only one that is 100% clear cut.

steals an object off of a table? Depends on whether or not he can maintain concealment
climbs down a ladder? Most likely no longer concealed while climbing down a ladder. If no one saw him do it and he can get back under cover, no new check required. If not, new check required after renewing cover.
jumps down ten feet? See: ladder.
assassinates an unsuspecting guard? Definitely no longer hidden, as per the rules. New check required, no exceptions.
opens a door? See: ladder/jump down
enters a new room? If the door was open, dependent upon concealment. If the door was closed, See: ladder.
takes any action? Entirely dependent upon what the action was.

[Tanarii]

Another thing to consider here is: does it even require a check? I mean, just trying to be sneaky doesn't mean a roll should happen right then. It has to be a question for resolution before a check is needed.

That's not to say that the DM can't call for the player to roll the die NOW when they say they are trying to be sneaky, then use that value whenever it becomes a question in-game. (This ties back into the Secret Rolls thread, and is one method for the DM to keep the player from knowing if there are any creatures present.)

[smcmike]

A rogue sneaks into a lair of giants. He's being stealthy, so the DM asks for a stealth check.

This may or may not be a bit premature. When did this preliminary check take place, exactly? I don't like a "general" stealth check.


Does the DM compare the rogue's stealth check to enemy passive perceptions, or does he give each creature an active perception check to detect the rogue?

That depends. Are the creatures actively searching for the rogue or some other intruder? If not, they don't get an active check, even if they are on "guard duty." Guard duty is boring. Some of them might not even get a passive check.


Does the DM take into consideration whether the creatures are alert and how far away the rogue stays from each creature?

Obviously.


Does the DM ask for a new stealth check when the rogue:

steals an object off of a table?

That depends.


climbs down a ladder?

That depends.


jumps down ten feet?

That depends.


assassinates an unsuspecting guard?

Yes.


opens a door?

That depends.


enters a new room?

That depends.


takes any action?

That depends.

[imanidiot]

I probably wouldn't have the monsters roll at all. I'd just have the rogue roll stealth vs a DC of 10-15 depending on how many monsters could possibly see them plus the highest perception modifier of any of the monsters.

example of 3 hobgoblins and a what, fire giant? The giant's passive perception is 16 so I would make the DC 21, essentially giving the giant advantage due to the hobgoblins making it harder to sneak around.

And they would likely have to make that roll every time they did something that gave the monsters an opportunity to see them.

I prefer to just have the PCs make most rolls. This way it's only 1 roll instead of 1 for the rogue and 4 for the monsters.