How to make an evil cleric be able to cast spells from the Good Domain?

[Spore]

Question posted as in the title.

The hypocritical "holier than thou" guys would be incredibly well portrayed by an evil cleric perusing the Good domain - and deriving his justification from being able to cast out demons. Also these builds would be incredible tools for demons and devils alike to kill the evil competition.

You can refluff. You can use the Glory or Sun Domain. But is there any (Paizo/3p) source that allows you to channel holiness down demons and still be morally bankrupt? Is there anything short of DM fiat (spells not being bound by alignment etc.) to allow this?

1) Class must be a divine caster of a good god.
2) Character must have (any) evil alignment.
3) Bonus points for a build able to manipulate good outsiders/paladins/paragons of good into his service despite them knowing you are evil.

Also, Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel.

[RoboEmperor]

1 & 2)How can a good god have evil clerics? By the rules you can only be 1 step from the god, so at best you can worship a neutral god not a good god.
3) Planar Binding. 3.5 has Malconvoker (only need to be non-evil for 2 levels and you can ditch this PrC) and the Demonic Domain (Has all the planar binding spells as domain spells), dunno about pathfinder. The two are supposed to be completely compatible right?

[Deadline]

I don't recall off the top of my head, but does Ur-Priest have the same alignment casting restriction as a Cleric?

[legomaster00156]

No, because no cleric can cast spells from an alignment opposing his deity's, and a cleric must be within one step alignment-wise from his deity. A cleric of an evil god will never be granted Good-aligned spells.

[Red Fel]

Question posted as in the title.

The hypocritical "holier than thou" guys would be incredibly well portrayed by an evil cleric perusing the Good domain - and deriving his justification from being able to cast out demons. Also these builds would be incredible tools for demons and devils alike to kill the evil competition.

You can refluff. You can use the Glory or Sun Domain. But is there any (Paizo/3p) source that allows you to channel holiness down demons and still be morally bankrupt? Is there anything short of DM fiat (spells not being bound by alignment etc.) to allow this?

1) Class must be a divine caster of a good god.
2) Character must have (any) evil alignment.
3) Bonus points for a build able to manipulate good outsiders/paladins/paragons of good into his service despite them knowing you are evil.

Also, Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel.

Yo.

Okay, let's look at specifically what you're asking. You're asking about an Evil divine caster who can cast spells from the Good domain. You are not asking for a Cleric who gets the powers from the Good domain. So, let's review the spells in the Good domain first:
Protection from Evil is a normal spell available to Clerics, Oracles, Inquisitors, Paladins, Shamans, Sorcerers/Wizards, and Summoners. Pretty much anybody can take it. If we limit our list to divine casters, there are still plenty who can. And not all divine casters are precluded from casting a Good spell based on alignment. Food for thought.
Align Weapon (Good only) is another spell available to Clerics, Oracles, and Inquisitors. Seeing a pattern?
Magic Circle Against Evil, Clerics, Oracles and Inquisitors. Know what? I'll just list any remaining spells in this domain that can't be taken by Clerics, Oracles or Inquisitors.
Surprise! They can all be taken by Clerics, Oracles, and Inquisitors (except Holy Aura, which can't be taken by Inquisitors).

So you know what you do? Step one, make an Oracle. Step two, choose the spells you want from the Good domain. And do you see in the Oracle's description how it can't cast spells of an opposing alignment? Oh, that's right, that language is unique to Clerics.

Seriously, that's it. Everything after that is fluffing. Be Evil, cast spells with the Good descriptor. Long as you can keep being Evil, keep up that Evil cred, casting Good spells isn't actually a problem for you.

And, you know, read my book.

[Psyren]

"Don't be a Cleric" is indeed the answer.

[Spore]

"Don't be a Cleric" is indeed the answer.

Haha, I should've known.

What if we DON'T go the easy route? Aka Good Domain and Evil Cleric?

[unseenmage]

Could the Domain Draught from MIC help here at all?

[Eldariel]

Heretic of the Faith from Power of Faerun more or less does this.

[Psyren]

Haha, I should've known.

What if we DON'T go the easy route? Aka Good Domain and Evil Cleric?

If you insist on being a cleric then it just won't work; clerics have two provisions preventing this. They can't take the domain itself because it's an opposing alignment, and even if you just want the spells from it (which are all on the general list), all but two of them are good-aligned, which trips over the second provision.


A cleric can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if her alignment matches that domain.


A cleric can’t cast spells of an alignment opposed to her own or her deity’s (if she has one). Spells associated with particular alignments are indicated by the chaotic, evil, good, and lawful descriptors in their spell descriptions.

Therefore, the only two spells on the Good domain that you'd be able to cast as a cleric are Blade Barrier and SM9, and even for the latter you would be prohibited from summoning any [Good] creatures with it. I'm not sure exactly which spells you were going for, but you'll probably have to look into non-cleric routes.

[Ashtagon]

Clerics in Eberron are not bound by alignment based spell restrictions.

[Psyren]

Eberron clerics are still prohibited from taking domains that oppose their alignment, but they can cast the spells on that domain (even aligned ones) if they are on their general lists regardless of their own alignment.

Note however that my previous post was geared to Pathfinder as that is the tag on the thread. If the OP is playing a PF game in Eberron, there is more latitude.

[Deadline]

Heretic of the Faith from Power of Faerun more or less does this.

Unfortunately this doesn't work, as Clerics are specifically banned from casting spells opposed to their alignment, and the OP specifically asked for an evil alignment on the character. Heretic of the Faith works great if you want, say, an NE cleric of Pelor or somesuch (and have the Evil domain granted by Pelor), but that cleric still can't cast good spells, because of the cleric alignment restriction.

I double checked, and Ur-Priest does not have the alignment restriction. They don't get access to domains either, but you can cast any spells on any domain list that are also on the Cleric list. This is as close as I can swing to the OP's request, but it's still the same sort of suggestion that others have made - "Don't be a cleric".

Hmm, upon further reflection, does the Hellbred's evil allowance ability extend to spells? That's possibly the only way you could have a cleric casting cross-alignment spells, although it only works in the opposite direction to what the OP wanted (i.e. Good caster casting Evil spells instead of the other way around).

Regarding the Domain Draught, that's a bit shaky, as I'm not sure it's specific enough to override the cleric alignment restriction. If it is, then that will work, but only so long as you have [Good] Domain Draughts handy, and they are kind of expensive.

[Spore]

This is entirely weird since the misguided holy man is an incredibly cool trope to build an entire character around. We already discussed perusing different classes. Is there any leeway of a rather fringe-case neutral cleric using the good domain?

After all, most of these discussions would be between player and DM. And as we have discovered the only argument the player has remaining that they feel their character is still somewhat neutral-ish (doing evil with good intentions, or doing good with evil tools).

Most of this is DM fiat but a CN cleric of a CG deity could theoretically use his abilities to torture evil outsiders and claim not being evil at all, despite obviously enjoying it. Why neutral then? Well, because doing stuff against evil is entirely good in a strict sense of the word. But then this thread derails into an alignment discussion and this is one of the things I'd try and avoid...

[Psyren]

A neutral cleric can cast those spells just fine; Neutral doesn't "oppose" Good after all.

You still can't take the domain itself, but as I noted above, all the spells on it are on the general cleric list anyway.

[Yogibear41]

Have look at the Heretic of the Faith feat from Power of Faerun, lets you be an evil cleric of a good deity or vice versa, as well as lets you do several other things.

[Florian]

"holier than thou"

Well, we have the example of the "Appeaser" Cleric archetype covering the reverse trope, a misguided person following one of the evil gods. You can copy that and build a "reverse version".

[thelastorphan]

Does the mythic power 'unbound morality' allow this?

[meschlum]

Not a cleric, but I've been looking at druids recently and found a candidate:

The Halcyon Druid archetype explicitly grants the ability to spontaneously cast spells from the Good Domain, and has no alignment constraints on it. So you could be an evil Halcyon Druid - though that doesn't do the cleric part (and druids are restricted from casting alignment opposed spells, I believe, making it a matter of generic versus specific).