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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other The Devouring Mists of Swethmore (a wizard spell) (PEACH)



VoxRationis
2017-09-28, 01:17 AM
I'm playing a character in a D&D game who is the last member of a noble house, Swethmore. The family motto is "Challenge not the mists," an allusion to the mists which pervade the house's demesne (also called Swethmore). I wanted to make a spell that was appropriate for the character and backstory, and negotiated with my DM to produce the following. Its intended role is battlefield control, in the sense of an actual large-scale battle. The effects of the spell are minimal on an individual scale, but can paralyze and disorient a unit of soldiers.

What are people's thoughts on the balance of this spell? The effects were carefully tailored to a particular image and battlefield use, so it does what it's supposed to do, but is the cost (in time, spell slots, and material components) appropriate?

The Devouring Mists of Swethmore
Conjuration (Creation) [Fear; Mind-affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, F, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action (see text)
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./caster level)
Effect: Mist filling 50 20-foot cubes per caster level
Duration: 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: None
The devouring mists of Swethmore conjures a thick mist that fills the area. The temperature seems to cool slightly, becoming somewhat uncomfortable, particularly for those from warmer climes. Strange lights and ethereal tinklings of music pervade the area, winking in and out. Every time a particular light or sound repeats, it comes from 100 degrees to the right of its previous location. Objects and creatures within 5 feet have partial concealment, and anything beyond that has total concealment (except, of course, for the lights, which always seem to be somewhat distant). Sound from outside the effect is muffled. The chill of the spell causes small, mundane flames to sputter and die out. This causes guns and fire-based weapons to have an 80% failure rate.
Gradually, the spell has a deleterious effect on the cohesion and morale of groups of people. A group of creatures moving as one unit will gradually lose forward progress. On the first round, speed is normal. On the second and third rounds, the speed of all creatures in a unit decreases from 30' to 20', or from 20' to 15'. On the fourth round, speed is reduced to 10', and on the fifth round, movement stops. On the sixth round, members of the group become shaken. All of these penalties are removed for any members of the group that break formation and begin individual movement.

A moderate wind (11+ mph) disperses the fog in 4 rounds; a strong wind (21+ mph) disperses the fog in 1 round. Wind spells clear the fog away only in their areas of effect.

Focus: The signet ring of House Swethmore. If the ring is lost or destroyed, a new one must be made, receiving a blessing from the clergy and from the High King or Queen of Pengwern, before the spell can be used again.

Material Component: 500 gp worth of silver dust, which has to be carefully laid out in the shape of the area to be covered. This takes a minimum of ten minutes, and must be set up by the caster.

rferries
2017-09-28, 01:34 AM
1) Awesome description and mechanics.

2) Can an affected group split up at any point, allowing them to resume moving individually (albeit blindly and by themselves)?

3) Although you've definitely balanced it for combat (6 rounds is a lifetime, even for an effect that effectively halts your enemies), I still think affected creatures deserve a Will save.

4) The duration isn't great, considering the casting time. I suggest bumping it up to hours or even days/level, so you can keep a forest/battlefield/farm perpetually swathed in the mists.

Overall, looks good. I used guards and wards as a baseline when comparing effects, if that helps.

VoxRationis
2017-09-28, 01:49 AM
1) Awesome description and mechanics.

2) Can an affected group split up at any point, allowing them to resume moving individually (albeit blindly and by themselves)?
Yes. Of course, then they'll either smack into something unpleasant or they'll run outside the area of the spell and get cut down by the caster's allies. Part of the purpose of the spell.



3) Although you've definitely balanced it for combat (6 rounds is a lifetime, even for an effect that effectively halts your enemies), I still think affected creatures deserve a Will save.
Considering that the spell's effects only really apply for soldiers in large groups, how do you think that would work? If X% of the soldiers save versus the movement decrease and the rest don't, the unit falls apart regardless and mostly just stays in the same place.



Overall, looks good. I used guards and wards as a baseline when comparing effects, if that helps.

I hadn't considered guards and wards as something to compare it to. We were mostly looking at effects like hallucinatory terrain and fog cloud.

rferries
2017-09-28, 02:14 AM
Considering that the spell's effects only really apply for soldiers in large groups, how do you think that would work? If X% of the soldiers save versus the movement decrease and the rest don't, the unit falls apart regardless and mostly just stays in the same place.

Now that you've clarified that individuals are free to move, I retract my comment about Will saves. I would add the [Fear] and [Mind-Affecting] descriptors, though.

VoxRationis
2017-09-28, 02:46 AM
Noted and added.

At your and my DM's suggestion, duration has been increased to 10 minutes/level.

Silva Stormrage
2017-09-29, 08:45 PM
Wow sorry but this is way too easily abusable. It covers such a large area it essentially hits everything you could possibly want at level 7 it covers 350 20 by 20ft cubes which if you center it on a group they are most likely not going to be able to move out of the area before movement becomes impossible.

Now you have essentially trapped an army for over an hour in place you simply send ANY undead or construct creature that is immune to the effects of the spell and has some way of detecting enemies (Blindsight/Mind sight/etc) and you can kill everything that is stuck in place at effectively no risk.

This is an obscene battlefield control spell for 4th level.

Suggestions: Make the movement reduction cap at half move speed rather than stopping entirely, reduce the duration and reduce the area. I know you want a large area spell but a single wizard should not be able to stop an entire army as a 4th level spell as a standard action.

Another option would be to boost the casting time to a minute. Making it a ritual style spell that couldn't be cast in most combat situations.

Also how does it interact with gust of wind/control winds.

Darth Ultron
2017-09-30, 06:21 PM
The first Red Flag I see...as always...is this spell is conjuration(creation) only so it will be Spell Resistance: None. The spell sure has a lot of Necromancy like effects and really should be necromancy.

The range and effect are huge for a 4th level spell with lots of effects.

The ''chill'' of the mist only effects mundane guns and fire based weapons, right? It does not have a 80% chance to snuff a meteor swarm, right?

The whole speed bit is a bit odd...and it is based on only 30' movement?

And then shaken, with no save?

And how do you see this as battle field control spell when you must sprinkle sliver around the area. Like a bunch of troops would just stand there and let that happen?

The only ''fear'' and ''mind effects'' is the shaken bit...after six rounds.

VoxRationis
2017-10-01, 02:37 AM
Wow sorry but this is way too easily abusable. It covers such a large area it essentially hits everything you could possibly want at level 7 it covers 350 20 by 20ft cubes which if you center it on a group they are most likely not going to be able to move out of the area before movement becomes impossible.

Now you have essentially trapped an army for over an hour in place you simply send ANY undead or construct creature that is immune to the effects of the spell and has some way of detecting enemies (Blindsight/Mind sight/etc) and you can kill everything that is stuck in place at effectively no risk.

This is an obscene battlefield control spell for 4th level.

Suggestions: Make the movement reduction cap at half move speed rather than stopping entirely, reduce the duration and reduce the area. I know you want a large area spell but a single wizard should not be able to stop an entire army as a 4th level spell as a standard action.

We actually worked out the size of the area fairly thoroughly, based on what would be the minimum necessary to trap a unit of 100 men marching in three ranks, with an assumed 30' movement speed. Other units will either be able to hustle through the fog or won't be contained in it in the first place. An army worthy of the term will only be hit in a comparatively small area by it. And note that the movement speed only applies to people moving in formation. If the unit breaks, the individual soldiers are free to defend themselves. (As an aside, in a campaign-specific fashion, the concern about undead and constructs is minimal. There is almost no access to either one in either the party roster or the general world-building. But I see how that is little solace for broader concerns regarding balance.)


Another option would be to boost the casting time to a minute. Making it a ritual style spell that couldn't be cast in most combat situations.
Do keep in mind that the material component needs to be prepared for 10 minutes, so there's a good amount of setup required. I'm going to add a requirement that the component preparation needs to be done by the caster themselves, to prevent abuse and make sure the 10 minutes is a legitimate cost.


Also how does it interact with gust of wind/control winds.

I would assume that wind spells would dissipate it as they do other fog spells. That is an important oversight that I should add.


The first Red Flag I see...as always...is this spell is conjuration(creation) only so it will be Spell Resistance: None. The spell sure has a lot of Necromancy like effects and really should be necromancy. What parts are necromancy? I admit that the lights and sounds aren't quite conjuration. Originally, I had set this up as an illusion spell, but my DM wanted actual mists and softly pushed towards conjuration. I should probably see about making it a PHB II-style dual school spell. But what about it seems like necromancy to you? It conjures real material and creates unreal, programmed things for the senses.


The ''chill'' of the mist only effects mundane guns and fire based weapons, right? It does not have a 80% chance to snuff a meteor swarm, right?
Correct. It affects small, mundane fires. Large or magical fires are immune.


The whole speed bit is a bit odd...and it is based on only 30' movement?

And then shaken, with no save?
These effects are tied to the condition that the subjects are moving in a unit in close formation. People that decide to leave formation, or who were never in formation in the first place, are immune to all of those effects. I should probably make that clearer. And I should definitely add adjustments for varying speeds.


And how do you see this as battle field control spell when you must sprinkle sliver around the area. Like a bunch of troops would just stand there and let that happen?

It's in the shape of the area, not actually surrounding the area. So you can set the silver diagram up some distance from where you want the fog to actually be. I should also add the requirement that the caster themselves be the person to prepare the diagram, to prevent abuse with minions.

Silva Stormrage
2017-10-01, 02:57 AM
We actually worked out the size of the area fairly thoroughly, based on what would be the minimum necessary to trap a unit of 100 men marching in three ranks, with an assumed 30' movement speed. Other units will either be able to hustle through the fog or won't be contained in it in the first place. An army worthy of the term will only be hit in a comparatively small area by it. And note that the movement speed only applies to people moving in formation. If the unit breaks, the individual soldiers are free to defend themselves. (As an aside, in a campaign-specific fashion, the concern about undead and constructs is minimal. There is almost no access to either one in either the party roster or the general world-building. But I see how that is little solace for broader concerns regarding balance.)


I would be more specific in the fact that it slows down group movement only as that is not clear right now. So to be clear if a single person walked inside it they would not have their movement speed slowed at all? If a group of enemies was slowed down the instant they stopped moving as a unit they would be able to move freely?

Also did you forget the semi forgotten rule that if you are blinded you move at half speed? That dramatically increases the effectiveness of these kind of blind effects.

Finally for the material component you can easily set this up before the fight. Get the 500GP of silver dust in the appropriate shape (Probably just a circle or box) then seal it in that shape. You can do that via spreading it out in carved wood (Carve a circle/shape then spread the silver in there) then seal the wood with a lid of some sorts to prevent the silver from spreading out. If your intent was that it takes 10 minutes to cast the spell I would just increase the cast time rather than mess with the material components.

Plus with material components you need to adjust for things like SLA's of this spell which negate that or wands and scrolls which would bypass that as well.

VoxRationis
2017-10-01, 03:35 AM
I would be more specific in the fact that it slows down group movement only as that is not clear right now. So to be clear if a single person walked inside it they would not have their movement speed slowed at all? If a group of enemies was slowed down the instant they stopped moving as a unit they would be able to move freely? Correct. The spell is purely an anti-unit attack. Against individuals, or even just fights on the skirmish-scale battles typical of D&D play, it's no more effective than fog cloud. It's not relevant to most campaigns, and even in the campaign it was developed for, it will be useful only in a few situations.


Also did you forget the semi forgotten rule that if you are blinded you move at half speed? That dramatically increases the effectiveness of these kind of blind effects.

Finally for the material component you can easily set this up before the fight. Get the 500GP of silver dust in the appropriate shape (Probably just a circle or box) then seal it in that shape. You can do that via spreading it out in carved wood (Carve a circle/shape then spread the silver in there) then seal the wood with a lid of some sorts to prevent the silver from spreading out. If your intent was that it takes 10 minutes to cast the spell I would just increase the cast time rather than mess with the material components.

Plus with material components you need to adjust for things like SLA's of this spell which negate that or wands and scrolls which would bypass that as well.

The material component was supposed to increase setup time without making the spell useless. Even an army unit, marching slowly to keep order, can cover quite a lot of distance in 10 minutes, likely closing from within maximum range to melee with the caster or even marching straight on by them. However, I did not consider wands and scrolls. (SLAs won't be a problem. Only one character will be casting the spell, and it'll be simple enough not to have SLAs on that character.)

Silva Stormrage
2017-10-01, 04:07 AM
Correct. The spell is purely an anti-unit attack. Against individuals, or even just fights on the skirmish-scale battles typical of D&D play, it's no more effective than fog cloud. It's not relevant to most campaigns, and even in the campaign it was developed for, it will be useful only in a few situations.



The material component was supposed to increase setup time without making the spell useless. Even an army unit, marching slowly to keep order, can cover quite a lot of distance in 10 minutes, likely closing from within maximum range to melee with the caster or even marching straight on by them. However, I did not consider wands and scrolls. (SLAs won't be a problem. Only one character will be casting the spell, and it'll be simple enough not to have SLAs on that character.)

With the clarification on how it works on individuals most of my issues with the spell go away. I still think increasing the range to "Extreme Long Range: 800ft + 80ft/cl" and increasing the casting time to 5 rounds (30 seconds) works better than the issue with material components but that's just my opinion on that.