Expansion/Enlarge bonuses

[tedcahill2]

So the description of Expansion gives a +2 Str, -2 Dex, and if you increase to large size you gain a 10ft reach.

Do you get the modifiers for increasing size to large? What supports that ruling? It would seem like that would have said "and gains the properties of their new size" or something like that in the spell description. So it would seem like this isn't a RAW thing. I also think that the writers never would have intended for a level 1 spell to provide a sustainably useful buff all the way to level 20, so I can't make a RAI argument for this either.

[Psyren]

What "modifiers for increasing size" are you referring to, that are not in the spell itself?

[NontheistCleric]

What "modifiers for increasing size" are you referring to, that are not in the spell itself?

Presumably, he is talking about the changes to ability scores creatures that increase in size through HD advancement are subject to.

I don't think that you would get them, though, since the table that details those changes seems to be referring only to size increases from HD advancement. There's also the fact that the changes from expansion are stated to be 'size' modifiers, so they may supersede the size modifiers from that table even if they did apply.

[Psyren]

Presumably, he is talking about the changes to ability scores creatures that increase in size through HD advancement are subject to.

I don't think that you would get them, though, since the table that details those changes seems to be referring only to size increases from HD advancement. There's also the fact that the changes from expansion are stated to be 'size' modifiers, so they may supersede the size modifiers from that table even if they did apply.

If those are the ones he means, then yes, those are only for use by the GM to customize monsters - not for changes due to magical buffs. You get what's in the spell description and that's it.

[BearonVonMu]

Don't forget your -1 size modifier to AC and attack rolls! Those are important!

[Psyren]

Indeed, and those are in the spell description :smallsmile:

[Necroticplague]

Do you get the modifiers for increasing size to large?
I assume you mean the benefits on "Table: Changes to Statistics by Size", correct? The rest of my post will be build on this assumption.

And the answer is 'no, you don't.'


What supports that ruling?
1.Mechanics do what they say, and not a bit more. The spell/power don't say to increase your stats using that table, so you don't.

The things you'll normally see exploit that table (half-minotaur, half-goristro, half-ogre, ect.) are templates, which explicitly are said to be using that table in the rules for templates.
2. The rules for the table itself.

Size Increases

A creature may become larger when its Hit Dice are increased (the new size is noted parenthetically in the monster’s Advancement entry).

A size increase affects any special ability the creature has that is affected by size. Increased size also affects a creature’s ability scores, AC, attack bonuses, and damage values as indicated on the tables below.
So, unless said otherwise, that table is only for size increases due to having more HD.