I Have A Future Date And Am Nervous As Hell [Edit: I May Have Just Screwed Up]

[JNAProductions]

Not posting this in relationship woes and advice because I'm not sure it's quite appropriate? Besides which, it's good news, and that thread is largely for those in not the best relationship status, so... I dunno. Anyway, thread!

So there's this girl-let's call her T-we met at college, when we were auditioning for a play. We hit it off, became friends, all good. I had a bit of a crush on her, and when we were talking about that kind of thing, actually told her that I did. She told me that she didn't really understand why, but was flattered.

Fast forward a little bit, she was kissed by another guy-let's call him C-and gushed to me and was super happy. But, about a week later, he told her he didn't really care about her, and she was, in her own words, more frustrated than anything else. Regardless, I went up to see her (at our college) and talked with her for a while, you know, just helping her keep her mind off C. Part of what we talked about was dates-to her, a date is when you go out with someone you don't know for sure you'd want to be with, and see how you like it.

Later that night, talking on the phone with T, we were talking about openness and honesty and all that. So, I told her that I'd like the opportunity to take her on a date. She agreed.

(Un)Fortunately, she's stage manager in the play, so she's very busy, and will be until mid-October. So no chance to have a date till after that. So, we've just been talking on the phone most nights, and texting back and forth, and all that.

So, with all the backstory out of the way, I am nervous as good god damn. It's not for a week or two, minimum, but I have the worst butterflies in my stomach and just... Bleargh. I'm worried she'll change her mind, I'm worried I'll screw it up, I'm worried I'll come off as annoying or something... I'm just nervous.

Halp?

[NRSASD]

Congrats! Good luck!

Seriously though, as someone who is building wedding plans with my girlfriend of seven years, I know what you're going through. I was there. Me, voted most likely to die single at highschool, had a great scheme on how to ask the girl of my dreams out. I had it all worked out. The dance, the dinner, everything... except what to do when said girl asked me if I was going to ask her out the night before the big event. I paused, stammered, blushed through the entire spectrum, and said "Er... yes?".

Dating someone is terrifying. Pure and simple. But the payoff is better than anything if it works. Be on your best behavior, get to know the person, and be yourself. If it works, excellent! If not, at least you tried. Try not to overthink it too much (like I did haha), cause stress and panic are your enemies. Once again though, congrats!

[JNAProductions]

Congrats! Good luck!

Seriously though, as someone who is building wedding plans with my girlfriend of seven years, I know what you're going through. I was there. Me, voted most likely to die single at highschool, had a great scheme on how to ask the girl of my dreams out. I had it all worked out. The dance, the dinner, everything... except what to do when said girl asked me if I was going to ask her out the night before the big event. I paused, stammered, blushed through the entire spectrum, and said "Er... yes?".

Dating someone is terrifying. Pure and simple. But the payoff is better than anything if it works. Be on your best behavior, get to know the person, and be yourself. If it works, excellent! If not, at least you tried. Try not to overthink it too much (like I did haha), cause stress and panic are your enemies. Once again though, congrats!

Thanks. It's just hard to get emotions to listen. :P

[NRSASD]

Thanks. It's just hard to get emotions to listen. :P

Hahahaha. Life wouldn't be nearly as interesting (and history would be logical!) if it were easy :P

[ve4grm]

Congrats! And take it easy!

It seems like she's already gotten to know you a bit from your talks, so "just be yourself" is even better advice than usual in this case, as "yourself" is the person she's gotten to know, and who she agreed to go on the date with.

I'll agree with the "(Un)" part about it being a couple weeks off. Having that much time to wait can really amp up nervousness. That's fine. It's common, and even appropriate to feel nervous about this stuff. Just do your best to not let it affect your behavior, as hard as that may be in practice.

My advice - Being a good date/boyfriend is very similar to being a good friend. So use the time you've been given to keep building your friendship together. You're already talking on the phone most nights, and that's huge! Maybe grab a coffee together at some point, even with a group is fine. If you get to know T better as a person and a friend, you won't regret it.

And when the official date happens, you'll wonder why you were so nervous in the first place!

(And if for whatever reason it doesn't work out in the end, you'll probably still have made a new friend.)

Congrats, good luck, and have a good time on your date!

[Red Fel]

So, with all the backstory out of the way, I am nervous as good god damn. It's not for a week or two, minimum, but I have the worst butterflies in my stomach and just... Bleargh. I'm worried she'll change her mind, I'm worried I'll screw it up, I'm worried I'll come off as annoying or something... I'm just nervous.

Halp?

Here's the thing. People say "just be yourself," and that's good advice and all, but you're probably still thinking about being yourself on a date. That, it sounds like, is where the anxiety is - oh my Red Fel, you guys, it's a date!

So don't call it that. Call it that to her, if you want, I mean, but don't think about it like that in your head. Ve4grm is totally right - just think of it as hanging out with a friend, something that has apparently been an easy non-issue for you in the past. Don't bother to think about it as anything other than that.

Once it's just a far-off plan to hang out with a friend, it becomes a lot easier to wrap your brain around. And really, that's all a date should be - hanging out with someone, as a friend. If it becomes more, it becomes more, but if it doesn't, you spent time with a friend.

The next step is to stop thinking about after. You're worried about if the date goes wrong, if you mess up, if you don't mess up, if things don't take off, if they do... Just forget it. The future is the future, and you don't get to control it, so don't try to. Instead, just plan to have fun with a friend, that's all anyone could ask. If it becomes something, fine, if not, also fine, right?

Bottom line, you've planned to spend time with a friend. It's something you've done before. It's something you're good at. So what if you're calling it something different? A rose by any other name, right? Just have fun with a friend. And whatever happens, happens.

[JNAProductions]

Thank you guys, for your advice. I'll try to keep it in mind.

[JNAProductions]

Apologies for double post, but a new development came up. I was talking with a different friend, V. She's dating another man and is very happy, and she just told me she might be pregnant. She's very happy about that, even though her and her boyfriend are planning adoption.

I, meanwhile, stupidly felt jealous of her boyfriend. And I felt like I should tell T, since it's not really fair to her for me to be looking at other girls. So I did tell her, and she said she appreciates the honesty, but is a little worried. This was all over text (haven't had the chance to talk to her for real yet) and... I'm really worried I screwed up with this.

[lio45]

I, meanwhile, stupidly felt jealous of her boyfriend. And I felt like I should tell T, since it's not really fair to her for me to be looking at other girls. So I did tell her, and she said she appreciates the honesty, but is a little worried. This was all over text (haven't had the chance to talk to her for real yet) and... I'm really worried I screwed up with this.

Heh. The general life lesson here is that not every single thought that passes in your brain is always automatically a good idea to be spoken out loud. Relationships are only a mere subfield of application of that pretty damn universal rule.

Now, I think you're going to have to do a bit of damage control. Would it be reasonably true if you went on to explain that what you mostly meant is that you felt this jealously of her boyfriend because he's got a gf who is on record saying she's "very happy" to be with him...? That would be a totally justifiable emotion.

[ve4grm]

Apologies for double post, but a new development came up. I was talking with a different friend, V. She's dating another man and is very happy, and she just told me she might be pregnant. She's very happy about that, even though her and her boyfriend are planning adoption.

I, meanwhile, stupidly felt jealous of her boyfriend. And I felt like I should tell T, since it's not really fair to her for me to be looking at other girls. So I did tell her, and she said she appreciates the honesty, but is a little worried. This was all over text (haven't had the chance to talk to her for real yet) and... I'm really worried I screwed up with this.

Did she say why she was worried?

Jealousy is fine, and natural, as long as it doesn't control you. I'm curious how you brought it up.

One thing is, especially before a first date has even happened, she's probably not thinking in those sorts of terms yet. Long term stuff, pregnancy, etc. The fact you apologized for thinking about it might mean to her that you're already thinking about your potential kids with her, which might have weirded her out.

As in all relationship issues, talk to her. Actually with voice. Tell her you know it's silly to feel jealous about it, or to feel guilty about a random thought, but you felt bad about it, and just felt like you had to say it. She'll probably understand.

Also, for future advice, don't bring up things like this over text. Weird thoughts that you feel guilty about, apologies, etc, text just isn't the right medium. Talking to the person directly is much better for the nuance needed for that. And 99% of the time, it can wait until the next time you speak.

[lio45]

Did she say why she was worried?

Jealousy is fine, and natural, as long as it doesn't control you. I'm curious how you brought it up.

Same here. A lot can depend on what exactly was said.

I would also insist on the importance of not waiting before you set this straight with her (live voice instead of texting, obviously). Don't let such things fester.

[lio45]

One thing is, especially before a first date has even happened, she's probably not thinking in those sorts of terms yet. Long term stuff, pregnancy, etc. The fact you apologized for thinking about it might mean to her that you're already thinking about your potential kids with her, which might have weirded her out.

My understanding (still a guess based on what JNAProductions said) is that the jealousy wasn't about the pregnancy at all. If it were (i.e. "I'm jealous of that guy because his gf is pregnant and I would love to have a gf who's pregnant") then JNA wouldn't have mentioned the "looking at other girls" angle at all because it would then be irrelevant.

From what I gather it was at least partly about looks. (IMO, it would be more simple if it were about the pregnancy.)

[Velaryon]

At the very least, try not to get carried away and start naming your future children or anything like that. It's all too easy to get ahead of yourself emotionally here, and when T isn't sure yet if she feels the same way, that's going to scare her off.

So if I understood, T has tentatively agreed to a date with you at some future time, but you have to wait a few weeks because she's got a lot going on right now. That's awesome, but it's not going to feel like it because being kept waiting breeds anxiety. Do your best to chill out and not obsess over this.

If you're at all like I was when I was in a similar situation, she's on your mind near-constantly. Try to change that. Hang out with other friends, do stuff that keeps your mind occupied. Keep in contact with T, but don't act impatient or pushy (even if you're only joking), because will be a major turn-off.

Recognize that one date is not a commitment, especially when it hasn't even happened yet. You owe T nothing, she owes you nothing either. You're just friends who are considering the possibility that you could become more.


Now, think about how you felt during your conversation with V. Was your jealousy toward V's boyfriend because you are attracted to V as well, because you wish you had that kind of relationship with V specifically, because you have some desire for children of your own, or just because you wish you were in a happy relationship like they seem to have? If it's just attraction, it doesn't necessarily mean anything. Just because you're in a committed relationship doesn't necessarily mean you've gone blind to everyone else in the world. Feeling a bit of attraction doesn't mean anything if you don't act on it or let it chew you up. Now, if you do desire a relationship with V specifically, that's a problem. It means you might need to reconsider your situation with T and what you really want. It also means you're likely in for disappointment because it sounds like V and her boyfriend are pretty set. If it's a desire for parenthood, that's further in the future than you need to be thinking right now. If it's just jealousy that they're in a happy relationship and you aren't... that's totally okay and there's nothing wrong with that.

Like others have said, this was not something you should have discussed with T, until and unless you reach a conclusion that you're interested in someone else rather than her. Not every thought that passes through your head needs to be shared, especially if you don't know what you mean by it. That feeling that you're hiding something from her because you dared to have a disloyal thought? Quash it. It's a combination of hormones and fairy tale nonsense. I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but nothing good can or will come from dwelling on or sharing thoughts like that.

So finally, what you need to do right now is do your best to relax, take a deep breath, and be patient. Stay in contact with T and maybe be just a little tentatively flirtatious (but stop if she doesn't return it or isn't in the mood), and wait til you have the opportunity to ask for a specific date. If she's at all interested, she will not leave you hanging. When that date comes, you probably ought to aim for something low-key and low pressure, maybe just a half step up from what you'd do hanging out as friends. Dinner (somewhere nice but not too formal or expensive) and something else, maybe mini golf/a museum/whatever the two of you would enjoy. Something that gives you time to spend together and consider what it would really be like to be dating each other. Play it cool and remember that there's not one perfect thing to say or do that's going to make her fall in love with you. You just have to be your best you, and let her come to you if she wants to.

Best of luck, hope it works out. :smallsmile:

[Anymage]

So, we've just been talking on the phone most nights, and texting back and forth, and all that.

You're both in college. Presumably on the same campus. You spend most nights talking on the phone. Explain to me why you don't just move this somewhere face-to-face.

Dating is not some formal courtship ritual. It's two people who like each other getting together to do stuff. If you have the time (and from the phone calls it seems like you do) and you have the proximity, stop letting things taper off and get together.


I, meanwhile, stupidly felt jealous of her boyfriend. And I felt like I should tell T, since it's not really fair to her for me to be looking at other girls. So I did tell her, and she said she appreciates the honesty, but is a little worried. This was all over text (haven't had the chance to talk to her for real yet) and... I'm really worried I screwed up with this.

"Hi. Yes. We haven't so much as actually had an actual date yet, we're so far from DTRing that it's out past the particle horizion, and yet I feel guilty and compelled to tell you that I find other women attractive". That'd spook me too. That sort of heavy early overinvestment is the sort of thing you hear from someone who, if you let them down gently because you're not feeling it on the first date, spends the whole rest of the year following you around like a sad puppy.

You're allowed to find other people attractive. You don't need to tell this person who you kinda like, and you certainly don't have to make a confession out of it. There are a lot of things you don't have to do; relationships are not legal depositions, and crushes are even less so. But the one thing you should do is stop overhyping, stop overplanning, and start aiming to spend more face time ASAP.

[Velaryon]

Anymage said what I meant confession thing, but more concisely and probably better than I did.

[lio45]

Anymage said what I meant confession thing, but more concisely and probably better than I did.

You said this (below) better than I did, and I was going to give you credit by pointing it out, but then Anymage dared to be even more direct than us.


Not every thought that passes through your head needs to be shared, especially if you don't know what you mean by it. That feeling that you're hiding something from her because you dared to have a disloyal thought? Quash it. It's a combination of hormones and fairy tale nonsense. I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but nothing good can or will come from dwelling on or sharing thoughts like that.

[Velaryon]

You said this (below) better than I did, and I was going to give you credit by pointing it out, but then Anymage dared to be even more direct than us.

I was mostly just restating what you said at that part. The only part where I think I differed was on the "damage control" part, because I think OP needs to make sure that it really is just jealousy that V's boyfriend has someone who is very happy to be with him, and not a desire for V specifically. Probably I've just read too many young adult novels with cliché love triangles (because hey, it's part of my job), but if there is anything like that going on, he needs to sort out how he really feels before pursuing a relationship with T.

[lio45]

I was mostly just restating what you said at that part. The only part where I think I differed was on the "damage control" part, because I think OP needs to make sure that it really is just jealousy that V's boyfriend has someone who is very happy to be with him, and not a desire for V specifically. Probably I've just read too many young adult novels with cliché love triangles (because hey, it's part of my job), but if there is anything like that going on, he needs to sort out how he really feels before pursuing a relationship with T.

Then we disagree on that aspect of the whole business. If it really is just jealousy that V's boyfriend has someone who is very happy to be with him, then of course you'll say that (which is exactly what I suggested). If V is really hot and the OP can't help but find her physically attractive, the OP can still argue/explain that he is in fact jealous of the guy for having a gf who declares herself to be "very happy" with him (which is bound to be true - everybody wants to be happy)... among other reasons to be jealous of him, such as having a really hot gf that the OP would love to bang, but you don't go and tell T that last part even if true.

He's interested in T, that's for sure. At least that's what I get from his posts. (But just in case: OP, if you think maybe you don't care about T, then please sort it out before you waste her time.)

Being attracted to V doesn't mean he can't be happy with T. People are in healthy happy relationships all the time in spite of finding the occasional stranger powerfully attractive (physically).

[Velaryon]

If the attraction to V is purely physical then sure, it's nothing to worry about. What I mean is that if he's jealous of V's boyfriend because he also desires a relationship with V specifically, then it's a problem (and one not likely to turn out well for him given that V is established to be happy with her current situation).

[danzibr]

Wait, she's happily in a relationship, might be pregnant, and plans on adopting? I'm not sure how you fit into the picture anymore. Sorry, not trying to be mean.

[golentan]

I would also advise against getting into issues of fidelity, long term relationships, and pregnancy before your first date. Like, you set up the date while talking with her about a recent kiss she had, was there any stated or implied exclusivity?

If you're jumping in very fast and getting more serious than the people you're with too quickly, it can come off the wrong way in a number of ways, especially if that's coupled with... fickleness, is the word which keeps coming to mind.

That said, breathe, Red. Go with the flow, and find your own equilibrium, and it'll work out for you.

[lunaticfringe]

Yeah.... I would not explore your feelings for your Happy, Pregnant Friend. Be happy for her and move on, unless it's so important that you are willing to risk your friendship over.

Friend who pines for me Vs the Father of my Child. I'm putting my money on Baby Daddy.

"You make me a little nervous. I'm embarrassed/feel like a dork" generally works in my experience. You may apologize but do not be over apologetic. Given your overshare I would not expand on that too much, be coy if you must. Don't harp on the subject, move on, keep it light.

Just some random advice from a weirdo on the internet who has never observed any of you interacting with each other. Grain of Salt.

[ve4grm]

Wait, she's happily in a relationship, might be pregnant, and plans on adopting? I'm not sure how you fit into the picture anymore. Sorry, not trying to be mean.

Different girl. It's confusing, no worries.

[danzibr]

Different girl. It's confusing, no worries.
Oooohhhh V and T, I see.

Hmm, well. You want to date T, but find yourself jealous of V's boyfriend (who maybe impregnated V and the two were already thinking to adopt). Why are you jealous? Is it because of the situation he's in? Do you want to be a boyfriend with a happy, pregnant girlfriend? Or do you want V in particular? 'Cause if it's the former, that's totally okay. I mean... sometimes you see someone with a nice house/car/job/whatever and get jealous (technically envious but w/e).

[JNAProductions]

Thanks everyone for your advice, and apologies for the confusion.

After some thinking, I'm pretty sure I'm mostly just jealous of how happy V is with her significant other, and I don't have (and have never really had) that.

I've talked to T a little since, and last we texted, she said she's still a little upset, but she seems to be settling down a little? (Phrased poorly, I know, but I couldn't think of better words.)

I'm hoping we'll be able to talk again on the phone soon and just have a nice time.

[Lord Joeltion]

Apologies for double post, but a new development came up. I was talking with a different friend, V. She's dating another man and is very happy, and she just told me she might be pregnant. She's very happy about that, even though her and her boyfriend are planning adoption.

I, meanwhile, stupidly felt jealous of her boyfriend. And I felt like I should tell T, since it's not really fair to her for me to be looking at other girls. So I did tell her, and she said she appreciates the honesty, but is a little worried. This was all over text (haven't had the chance to talk to her for real yet) and... I'm really worried I screwed up with this.
Wait, how was this story again? You felt jealous because they planned to adopt, or only after V told you that she might be pregnant? This might be critical to discern the kind of jealousy you feel. I'm assuming the man and the boyfriend you speak of is the same guy...

Anyway, it's totally fine to feel jealous because a friend of yours probably will relegate her relationship with you to a second plane (for the baby, I expect). It's something that may happen between very close friends, even women have this feeling with her female friends. I have no idea why you felt the need to confess anything if that was the case, but at least it's justifiable and something innocuous.

Now, if you found V attractive for any reason (I'm not judging you, most of my female friends I think they are attractive too) AND feel jealous of her boyfriend's position, that might be tricky. If that's how you worded it (more or less) to the girl you are planning to date, I understand her being bothered by it. You don't usually tell that kind of thing to a girl.

That doesn't mean anything was screwed. You can probably flip the tables to your side. Women may be a little competitive too*. Then again she may not be that type, so in that case you shouldn't give the incident too much relevance. Apologize for any misunderstanding, but try to downplay it in a polite manner.

*Most women I know at personal level have confessed to me that when they date someone, they look any other woman they don't know as a potential "competitor" if they have a certain relationship with the guy in question. Now, of course, not everyone has a competitive nature, so that fact may have a lot of meanings. But I think it's fair to assume some women share this trait, even if it's not that widespread.
Most of my knowledge/experience with women comes from having a bunch of close friends who happened to be women. I suck at dating. Not because of my knowledge but because I'm a horrible person :smallredface:

[lunaticfringe]

I just assumed

1. They have an agreement to go on a future date at some point and are chatting on the phone. Feeling the need to confess his jealously is at this stage could be a bit worrisome. This isn't a monogamous relationship yet. It can be distressing when someone you are getting know becomes super emotionally invested in the not-a-serious-relationship-yet. Too Much Too Fast.

2. No one likes to find out they are someone's consultation prize. He convinced this chick to give him a chance and he might be hung up on another girl ?!? Especially because she was recently rejected by someone she thought she had a meaningful connection with and is probably still a bit raw. Not that he is but I can see that crossing her mind and sending up a red flag.

Anyway... just my take on it. Hope it works out for ya!

[lio45]

Thanks everyone for your advice, and apologies for the confusion.

After some thinking, I'm pretty sure I'm mostly just jealous of how happy V is with her significant other, and I don't have (and have never really had) that.

I've talked to T a little since, and last we texted, she said she's still a little upset, but she seems to be settling down a little? (Phrased poorly, I know, but I couldn't think of better words.)

I'm hoping we'll be able to talk again on the phone soon and just have a nice time.

On the "good news" front, I would say that your foot-in-mouth screwup had the side effect of producing an encouraging sign for the prospect of a relationship with her (T).

Not saying the screwup wasn't 100% bad, 0% good; if you could, you most definitely should go back in time and avoid it altogether entirely. But it happened to open a bit of a window on T's mind, because instead of being creeped out and annoyed by how possessive and pathetic it sounded that you felt you had to confess finding another girl attractive at this stage of your not-yet-even-an-embryo relationship, she instead seems to be upset that you're looking at others. That's a good sign, but you need to make sure she knows she's the one you're interested in.

[lio45]

If that's how you worded it (more or less) to the girl you are planning to date, I understand her being bothered by it.

Absolutely, but as I pointed out, it's probably good news that she's bothered by it. It augurs well for JNAProductions' chances. If she had accepted the date out of pity, this kind of early emotional overinvestment ("I already feel we're together so I really need to tell you this") would likely have scared her off at this point (likely that he'd turn even more clingy in the future; better nip it in the bud).

Her reaction instead indicates she cares.

Not an exact science of course but from what you're saying I think her reaction was a good sign.

[Chen]

I've talked to T a little since, and last we texted, she said she's still a little upset, but she seems to be settling down a little? (Phrased poorly, I know, but I couldn't think of better words.)

She's upset? That's an odd reaction IMO. I'd think she'd be wary of you moving too fast with that type of confession. What about it upset her?

Realistically though just stop talking about it with her. Don't bring it up and hope it goes away. You're just going to dig yourself deeper if you're trying to explain it or anything or even just bringing it up again.

[lio45]

She's upset? That's an odd reaction IMO.

Not if she actually hopes JNAProductions will be a reliable loyal boyfriend who she can trust to not swap her for another woman later. Her previous bf didn't really care about her and dumped her. I'm pretty sure that's going to have an impact on how she sees things at the moment. It's possible she thought JNAProductions (who courted her in the past, stuck by her, and did not date anyone else in the interval) was a special kind of reserved, chivalrous gentleman, and now by confessing he found V hot it broke the spell a bit - now he's just another guy, and as she feared they're all pigs mostly driven by their ***** not brains, even the ones who look like they aren't (at first sight).

Now, of course, we have no idea what was actually said, so we're going by the little bits that get reported her (and everything we get has passed through the deforming lens of JNAProductions' filter, as well). I'm saying it's possible, but I can't guarantee it's the correct interpretation, far from it.




Realistically though just stop talking about it with her. Don't bring it up and hope it goes away. You're just going to dig yourself deeper if you're trying to explain it or anything or even just bringing it up again.

Same as above applies - without knowing what was said (on both sides), it's hard to recommend the best course of damage control after what was said.

You could very well be right that acting like it didn't happen and hoping it will go away by itself is the best course of action (out of all those realistically available; it's certainly a better choice than inserting foot in mouth again.)

Lesson learned hopefully by the OP. Just continue to be yourself, it seems to have worked well for you with her so far, but be careful about what you say. (Without falling to the other extreme.)

[JNAProductions]

She said I broke her trust and doesn't want to date anymore.

I'm not feeling well about it.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

*Warning: lots of things stated as if they're absolutely true. They're not, and I am in general a terrible source for relationship advice. But I'm going to give it to you anyway. Use what suits you, discard what offends you, find a good way to finish this sentence.*

So, because you envy, in general, people in a steady relationship, you told a girl you haven't even been on a date with yet that you like another girl, and now she feels betrayed?

It feels like either I don't get what you mean, or she didn't.

If you can, drop the subject for a while, be cool about it, keep interacting as you did, and find a good place to bring up the topic a few weeks from now. See if you can explain what you meant, not too long, just enough to make it clear, and if the conversation seems to be going somewhere (which in this case just means she does not run away screaming in disgust or something) ask her again, if you feel like it.

Don't try to be overly honorable. Most of us have done that, but you're not helping yourself or anyone else. Before you've even been on a date you're not exclusive, you can look at other girls' butts at the bar. Or at their happy marriages and pregnancies, you know, whichever suits you. This is not macho talk or sexism, this is as far as I can tell how most humans experience relationships. Men as well as women. It's even worse than you'd think it is, a person who uses Tinder like they're desperate in a period where they're also obviously flirting with someone in particular often comes across as a cool person to be with, because they're not overly serious and clingy and stuff about it. They're just looking for a good time for as long as things are fun, and who knows where it ends, so that's the signal potential partners pick up on: "this guy, for a good time". That example wouldn't exactly be my style, and it doesn't have to be yours, but the general principle applies. "Hi, I saw you standing here, and because I think honesty is the basis of a good relationship I want to tell you that while I was making my way over here I mentally cheated on you 34 times" is not a great pickup line. Not because you thought about other people, but because you feel like that should somehow be her problem, and nobody enters the early phase of a relationship because they're looking for problems. It's fine if you have a good understanding and you talk about everything, just try not to, for lack of better words for it, make up problems to have something to talk about. It's okay for things to be no big deal sometimes.

TL;DR: Take a deep breath, try to take a step back from being in love with T while taking that breath if you can, be cool, see how the wind blows, enjoy other girls' butts pregnancies, keep talking to her because it seems like you guys are really good at that.

And whatever you do, don't do what I would do, it would only end in disaster.

[JNAProductions]

Should I be mad?

I don't feel mad. I feel empty. But should I be mad?

She says I broke her trust. I was honest with her, telling her something I felt a bit guilty about, and she says I broke her trust.

[Lord Joeltion]

Oh, that's sad to read. I think Expert here may be on spot. Taking a deep breath, and stepping back usually helps. Calculate again where your GPS left, and follow from there. Chilling things out may help her reconsider, or even better YOU reconsider. She doesn't have to be the one you know? Or the only one, at least :smallwink:


Should I be mad?

I don't feel mad. I feel empty. But should I be mad?

She says I broke her trust. I was honest with her, telling her something I felt a bit guilty about, and she says I broke her trust.
Mad at who? At her? No, I think her reaction wasn't disproportionate; that is, assuming both you and her were civil during both phases of the conversation. I can't really tell what she meant with "breaking her trust", but if anything, it means she apparently considered you dating as something more serious than just a way to recover from her last break up. That doesn't mean she actually was looking into seriously dating; but at least she was considering you as a person and not as a glorified... well, you know.

Now, if you think you should be mad at you, I don't think you should either. You were sincere. You did what you felt was right. That shows something. Proves something to you and to her. Besides, what's done is done, there's really no point crying over spelt milk. Try to minimize future damage and resentments with her if you have to keep seeing her for some reason. Try not to dehumanize her either, and don't think of her as somebody who simply reacted to what you specifically said. People tend to be more complex than that.

Worst case scenario you stop seeing her altogether and meet new people. It doesn't have to be something bad. Refreshing is always good. "Emptiness" is a good sign for starters; just don't fill it with any negative thinking or pondering on the situation too much. That never helps. I propose filling it with food. Nothing unhealthy, but the tastier, the better. Additional points if you cooked it yourself.

[Grinner]

Should I be mad?

I don't feel mad. I feel empty. But should I be mad?

She says I broke her trust. I was honest with her, telling her something I felt a bit guilty about, and she says I broke her trust.

Getting mad is a good way to burn bridges. If you feel this particular bridge would be better off burnt and are willing to accept the collateral damage, feel free to do so. You have to make that call, though.

Otherwise, I feel you've already received sound advice.

[Anymage]

You can't make yourself be mad any more than she can make herself feel crazy about you. Feelings aren't things we have rational control over, and indeed often aren't rational things at all. Don't deny your feelings or try to repress them (again, not things we have rational control over), but do be mindful of how you let them out.

As far as T goes, I could give a long explanation for what's going on in her head, but in practice I don't see it doing you any good. Instead, I'll recommend finding ways to hang out in places that other girls are. You'll realize that it's possible to crush on someone that way without it necessarily being a big deal. (There's tons of subtext behind why what you did was a really bad idea.) More importantly, you'll realize you don't have to get hung up on any one person. And you'll find that being around real live women will allow you to understand how girls think way better than any chatroom theorycrafting ever could.

[Bobb]

What was your motivation in telling T about V?

[lio45]

She says I broke her trust. I was honest with her, telling her something I felt a bit guilty about, and she says I broke her trust.

It looks like you think this is a contradiction...? It's not; it makes perfect sense, FYI.

"I was honest with my friend Jim, confessing to him that I stole stuff from him last month, which is something I felt a bit guilty about, and now he says I broke his trust."

"I was honest with my wife, telling her that I just cheated on her, something I felt a bit guilty about, and now she says I broke her trust."

etc.

[lio45]

As far as T goes, I could give a long explanation for what's going on in her head, but in practice I don't see it doing you any good.

Not sure we're in a position to do more than guessing, but with the latest info we have my best theory is that she used to think she could trust the OP to be different, and not be shallow and an ogler and a potential philanderer/womanizer, but no, turns out he's "just like the other guys".

Curious to see what you think is going on in her head, with the little we know...

[Anymage]

Not sure we're in a position to do more than guessing, but with the latest info we have my best theory is that she used to think she could trust the OP to be different, and not be shallow and an ogler and a potential philanderer/womanizer, but no, turns out he's "just like the other guys".

Curious to see what you think is going on in her head, with the little we know...

You're half right. She's rebounding. A little of which means that she's fragile at the moment (being into someone and then finding out that they don't care will do that to a person), and part of which means that she was open to finding an alternate someone even if having a someone didn't necessarily mean that she was really into that person. Like I said earlier, it's a huge tell that they stayed at phone distance instead of grabbing dinner together at some point.

And then JNA had to give his "confession". Which was presuming that they were way closer than he'd have any reason to think, and I would not be at all surprised if the focus was entirely on his emotions. Having a minor emotional crisis over nothing, and expecting the other person to handle it, is super awkward in the best of times. In a protorelationship, it implies a lot of unhealthy emotional states.

So T is coming down from rebound pain. By itself that'd slow down what was happening with whoever she was rebounding to. Then comes the fact that they were getting zero face time, meaning that they hadn't been building something that could last on its own. And finally, you had the emotion dump, which was really just the final nail in the coffin. It's not about JNA being a horndog womanizer, and it's not really about trust. (Whether that's just something she said, or whether that's really the best word she could use for what she's feeling is not something I can confidently guess at. People are usually crap at being able to accurately assess their inner states, and this girl sounds more like a confused college kid than a perfectly enlightened guru of self-awareness.) It's about her giving a maybe a chance, and then the maybe went from not capitalizing on that chance to blowing it hard.

[lio45]

You're half right. She's rebounding.

I didn't want to say this outright to the OP, but for the record it's what I meant to say (in a less direct manner) by
Not if she actually hopes JNAProductions will be a reliable loyal boyfriend who she can trust to not swap her for another woman later. Her previous bf didn't really care about her and dumped her. I'm pretty sure that's going to have an impact on how she sees things at the moment.


However, even though you may be right (that the emotion dump turned her off in a "I don't need this" way), I think my analysis could also be correct (that she got upset at the OP being flirty with other girls, because she looked forward to the idea of a loyal chivalrous guy in her rebound).

Depends on how much weight we choose to allocate to her statements that she was "upset" and that it was about trust. I agree with you that people often don't self-evaluate well, so, it's kind of a crap shoot.

OP, good luck, and hopefully it will turn out better for you in the future. At least you gained some XP with this.

[Cozzer]

Why should you be mad? I mean, she could have stopped dating you because it's Tuesday, or because she threw a d20 and got a 1, and it would still be completely within her rights to do so. Arguing a "no", even just in your head, is pointless and only keeps you attached to something you should be distancing yourself from.

Now, if she changed her mind because of something you did, which seems to be the case, it might be useful to think about it in order to avoid repeating the mistake (if it was indeed a mistake and not simply an incompatibility). But it's something you can do after you're done grieving for the end of the crush.

As Anymage said, the best way to let go is to do things that don't involve T and that involve other girls. (Of course, it usually ends badly if you just go there for the girls, it should be something you actually enjoy doing).

[Chen]

She said I broke her trust and doesn't want to date anymore.

I'm not feeling well about it.

What exactly did you say to her? For someone who wasn't dating you, "breaking trust" for admitting jealousy towards another happy couple seems fairly overreacting to me. Or did you specifically say you were interested in that other girl? That would be completely different IMO.

While I am an advocate for open communication in almost all cases, there are definitely times to keep things to yourself. Especially if there's no way you're going to act on said feelings. It'd be like telling your spouse that you find their sibling attractive. While it may be objectively true, why would you ever do something like that, unprompted?

[Mikemical]

I mean, as far as I can tell, Tina might feel like you're approaching her after her let down with Chad as an easy way into hooking up with her since she's vulnerable. Telling her "I feel jealous about Vanessa's boyfriend" might carry a lot of different meanings for her: "I feel jealous he's with Vanessa", "I feel jealous they're so happy together", "I feel jealous he knocked up a girl", etc. Jealousy is very big bad word to throw around when courting someone.

The thing is, she only agreed with going out with you in a sort-of-date, which is a big step in getting over Chad, but you shouldn't push home that it's an actual "for real" date. It's better if she thinks this is just some "friends going out, having fun as friends do". The actual dating starts after she has recovered from The Chadening.

For the record, I'm totally waitng for a chance to post spaghetti (http://www.simplyrecipes.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/italian-sausage-spaghetti-horiz-640.jpg) images.

EDIT: After reading up the whole thread.

Well, you have a couple of options:

You can back off a little, DO NOT send messages saying "I'll be here for you if you need me" or anything like that. Instead, take a more laidback approach and ask her if she wants to grab some coffee sometime or join you and some friends to go to the movies(friends are not actually required). If she agrees, keep the distance, "see you then" is better than "it's a date" after she just pushed you away. If she doesn't, then move on. Plenty more fish in the sea.

You can ask her to see you face to face. Grab some coffee or ice cream or yogurt and try to sort things out. Try to keep the relationship topic at a distance, and only talk about it if she brings it up. Bringing it up yourself will make her uncomfortable and make you look like a stalker with a crush. If she asks, just tell her what is it that you like about her that makes you want to be around her(DO NOT TALK ABOUT HER PHYSICAL APPEARANCE!), like her personality, how nice she is, how passionate she is about the drama thing, that she is a good person, etc. If she rebuffs you, then like the option before, move on.

You can back off completely. She pushed you away, maybe you should keep away. Don't spam her phone and FB chat saying you want to talk to her. If she doesn't reply, the message is clear: She just isn't into you as you are into her. And don't be a "nice guy". Those are the worst.

[danzibr]

I have to ask... are their real names Tina, Chad, and Vanessa? I was totally getting a Veronica vibe.

[lio45]

What exactly did you say to her? For someone who wasn't dating you, "breaking trust" for admitting jealousy towards another happy couple seems fairly overreacting to me. Or did you specifically say you were interested in that other girl? That would be completely different IMO.

My possible interpretation for the loss of trust would be "I trusted you wouldn't be that kind of guy, and I'm sorely disappointed". It's kind of the only thing that makes sense. Basically "I wanted to trust you as a 'nice guy' but you're a shallow potential philanderer".



While I am an advocate for open communication in almost all cases, there are definitely times to keep things to yourself. Especially if there's no way you're going to act on said feelings. It'd be like telling your spouse that you find their sibling attractive. While it may be objectively true, why would you ever do something like that, unprompted?

QFT, obviously. Seems evident but there's some experience involved in learning the right balance of open communication.

[lio45]

Not posting this in relationship woes and advice because I'm not sure it's quite appropriate?

In retrospect, I can now say it's exactly what I had originally suspected: the RWA thread would've been the perfectly appropriate place to discuss your woes and receive advice.

Also, I'm betting 'T' is Tina. But C and V in my mind were Charles and Valerie, for some reason. (Lots of possible names for those.)

[Dr.Samurai]

My possible interpretation for the loss of trust would be "I trusted you wouldn't be that kind of guy, and I'm sorely disappointed". It's kind of the only thing that makes sense. Basically "I wanted to trust you as a 'nice guy' but you're a shallow potential philanderer".
I suspect instead that she felt weird about his admission because it's too much too soon, and she used his own concerns about trust as a reason to back out of the date.

JNA, you seem like a real nice guy, but you also think that what you're doing is wrong or makes you bad. It's ok to like girls. It's ok to feel envy for someone else's situation. That's not a big deal. It doesn't require a confession to *anyone*, let alone a girl that you haven't even had "relations" with.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. Go on the date first. Establish a relationship, if/when that happens, before you think about being exclusive, let alone confessing imaginary thought crimes.

In other words, the big take away here should be for you to relax. I know this sounds like obvious non-advice, but you've got to feel more comfortable with all of this. The confession was a mistake, but you did it because you were worried in the first place. But you didn't do anything wrong.

Work on why you felt guilty, and why you felt the need to tell her. The reasons behind that will be key to avoiding something like this in the future. Trust has to be earned, and when you're too open too quickly and disclose too much, it's a red flag to most people.

[ngilop]

Not posting this in relationship woes and advice because I'm not sure it's quite appropriate? Besides which, it's good news, and that thread is largely for those in not the best relationship status, so... I dunno. Anyway, thread!

So there's this girl-let's call her T-we met at college, when we were auditioning for a play. We hit it off, became friends, all good. I had a bit of a crush on her, and when we were talking about that kind of thing, actually told her that I did. She told me that she didn't really understand why, but was flattered.

Fast forward a little bit, she was kissed by another guy-let's call him C-and gushed to me and was super happy. But, about a week later, he told her he didn't really care about her, and she was, in her own words, more frustrated than anything else. Regardless, I went up to see her (at our college) and talked with her for a while, you know, just helping her keep her mind off C. Part of what we talked about was dates-to her, a date is when you go out with someone you don't know for sure you'd want to be with, and see how you like it.

Later that night, talking on the phone with T, we were talking about openness and honesty and all that. So, I told her that I'd like the opportunity to take her on a date. She agreed.

(Un)Fortunately, she's stage manager in the play, so she's very busy, and will be until mid-October. So no chance to have a date till after that. So, we've just been talking on the phone most nights, and texting back and forth, and all that.

So, with all the backstory out of the way, I am nervous as good god damn. It's not for a week or two, minimum, but I have the worst butterflies in my stomach and just... Bleargh. I'm worried she'll change her mind, I'm worried I'll screw it up, I'm worried I'll come off as annoying or something... I'm just nervous.

Halp?
firs off. congrats that's awesome.


now that that is out of the way let me speak on some super cool experiences I have had in my life.

I have found women love it when you are a 'goober' I have no idea why, I know that if I was a chick I would not date myself id be like 'who is this goofy guy? get away, yo"

For me I only 'goob out' when it is a girl that I am really interested in, if it just some hottie I saw at the club or the grocery store its actually pretty easy to get the name, number and a date.

now take a girl that I worked with for a few months got to know pretty well and was like 'cool, she is short, brunette, has a whooty, smart, and has some of the same interests as me." now cue to me asking her out, I literally slide in to where she was working, all super risky business like, and did the fonz point and said 'SO... you wanna date"

If some dude did that to female me, id proably slap or if a guy asked my future daughter like that id show him a pcitre of a big hole, a shovel, and a gun. But for some odd reason she was super excited about the date.


Now take me seeing this Oaxacan girl, I literally stumbled around saying half words for 3 minutes or so. Like I was drunk or high...

sorry I went off on a tanget.


The point is, its Ok to be nervous. Just be yourself and if you do some werid stuff, just laugh about it. If she is some crazy who expects a date o whatever to go Hollywood style perfect, she is in for a huge disappointment.




as for the whole her being mad at you. I would just advise you to tell her what exactly made you jealous about the situation. The female minds works differently than the male one, and they tend to do into all kinds of 'what if's' when they think on something. Just explain to her exactly what it was you were jealous about, for instance' I have never had a relationship that was that together, intimate, and happy" oh by intimate I mean close and personal.. not sexually.

[Chen]

My possible interpretation for the loss of trust would be "I trusted you wouldn't be that kind of guy, and I'm sorely disappointed". It's kind of the only thing that makes sense. Basically "I wanted to trust you as a 'nice guy' but you're a shallow potential philanderer".

Seems like a pretty far jump from "jealous of happy couple" to "philanderer". I mean you could be right, but frankly if that is the case, then he dodged a bullet.

[lio45]

Seems like a pretty far jump from "jealous of happy couple" to "philanderer". I mean you could be right, but frankly if that is the case, then he dodged a bullet.

As I said though, it obviously depends on how much weight we choose to allocate to her statement that it was about trust. As Anymage says, that may just be an easy excuse. That's very possible too. What I said is that if we take her word re: trust, then that's what I'm betting on was happening in her head then.

And "I meant I was jealous of their happy couple" was the damage control angle I recommended, but I don't think that is actually our best or closest guess of what the OP did say about 'V'. For all we know, it could've instead been along the lines of "she's so hot, I'd so bang her, and I can't help but be jealous of her bf. Since I'm hoping to date you, I feel I have to confess this imaginary cheating on you". In this case, the OP's already closer to breaking the trust of a girl he expected to date in a way potentially leading to a monogamous, exclusive relationship with someone you don't have to worry might look elsewhere.