Xanathar's Guide - Official Videos describing Confirmed Subclasses

[nickl_2000]

From the DnDBeyonds YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPjdPog_vKX33aqc6Ji12wQrGQJQ_q_1R

You can also see JC or MM talk about each
ALL new subclasses released

* Video isn't release yet, but the information is coming from official WotC sources
New URL for an image of the TOC
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMmjxfTUMAAT_Tn.jpg


Barbarian - Path of the Ancestral Guardian https://youtu.be/HzRaeZ7KofU
Barbarian - Path of the Storm Herald https://youtu.be/VSFjJYrQWbE
Barbarian - Path of the Zealot https://youtu.be/HTu2aZ2mKd8

Bard - College of Glamour https://youtu.be/INKIOBaVB-g
Bard - College of Swords https://youtu.be/Xz2CA3FK6wA
Bard - College of Whispers https://youtu.be/oRWM-mfPCTU

Cleric - Forge Domain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZznOH4-njM Subclass Preview (http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/DnDXL2017_Forge.pdf)
Cleric - Grave domain https://youtu.be/sc7rjevqVrk

Druid - Circle of Dreams https://youtu.be/bIuFHTgZIGw
Druid - Circle of the Shepherd https://youtu.be/_4oDavj7GkU

Fighter - Arcane Archer https://youtu.be/ClmO0QKDOxA
Fighter - Cavalier https://youtu.be/KoFRbxfTN98
Fighter - Samurai https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6VVT7THzIE&feature=em-uploademail

Monk - Way of the Drunken Master https://youtu.be/tBx0EH4ogjY
Monk - Way of the Kensai https://youtu.be/0iDvXI639uU
Monk - Way of the Sun Soul - SCAG reprint for AL people https://youtu.be/jZ8x9-TMoNU

Paladin - Oath of Conquest https://youtu.be/z-PgBcVaUkw
Paladin - Oath of Redemption https://youtu.be/dGTgdE0MYpw

Ranger - Gloom Slayer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHzd8ALtnjs
Ranger - Horizon Walker https://youtu.be/FP0g7KTSOUI
Ranger - Monster Slayer https://youtu.be/QHd8UhCqmFQ

Rogue - Inquisitive https://youtu.be/c4z9rvMfFfc
Rogue - Mastermind - SCAG reprint for AL people
Rogue - Scout https://youtu.be/VuZYqwz_-2M
Rogue - Swashbuckler - SCAG reprint for AL people

Sorcerer - Divine Soul, renamed from favored soul. https://youtu.be/OhWa-U0a6-g
Sorcerer - Shadow Sorceror https://youtu.be/xllcrXJ_q4Y
Sorcerer - Storm Sorcery - SCAG reprint for AL people

Warlock - Celestial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfEWMNe2Q8M
Warlock - The Hexblade https://youtu.be/VgIqCr-FpOo (jaappleton and dracoknight you may extinguish your torches and put the pitchforks away now)

Wizard - War Magic https://youtu.be/w-riMfi8eio


Other Player notes to add in from the TOC
-Druid - Learning Wild Shape
-Warlock - Eldritch Invocations https://youtu.be/tjSh54pmcEk
-Racial Feats https://youtu.be/p1TEQ01WcU4
-Origins and Life Events
-New Spells https://youtu.be/QkU4hELM2Os
-Common Magic Items https://youtu.be/3lWGCZmaCRo

DM Tools https://youtu.be/Uql9pVc3KHE
-Adamantine Weapons
-Tool Profs
-Spell casting perception
-Random Encounter listings
-More on Traps
-Awarding Magic Items






Super excited about College of Glamour since I've been playing that one and wanted to see it as full legal!https://youtu.be/HTu2aZ2mKd8

[Aett_Thorn]

Glad about all of these except for probably the Cavalier. I mean, I'm glad that they fixed it up a bit, but I just don't get how the flavor is really anything different than what you could already do.

[Easy_Lee]

Good news for fighters as the Cavalier is pretty good, so long as your DM isn't a jerk about the mount. That said, I hope they differentiate it a little more from the Battlemaster.

[iTreeby]

Cavalier does not have maneuvers any more so it shouldn't be too similar.

[nickl_2000]

I loved JC's description of the College of Glamour bard. He said that Freddy Mercury inspired the subclass.

Apparently I got what they were going for, considering that my bard, in his back story, riled up a crowd to the point of rioting and burning down a concert venue because all his contract riders weren't met.

[mephnick]

Cavalier does not have maneuvers any more so it shouldn't be too similar.

Wow, really? Hopefully they're replaced with something good. I would have held another round of UA for that big a change. Now I'm bracing for something even more underwhelming like PDK.

[eastmabl]

Wow, really? Hopefully they're replaced with something good. I would have held another round of UA for that big a change. Now I'm bracing for something even more underwhelming like PDK.

What did you think of the knight?

[Maxilian]

I though they confirmed the Circle of Sheperd too, well... at least i hope they do.

O.T: I do like the Cavalier (theme) as anything that could go on riding is pretty nice for me and Fighter is a class that already give you a lot of options thanks to its ASIS, i prefered this one way more than the Knight, and it seems Knight will not be comming any time soon now.

[nickl_2000]

Good news for fighters as the Cavalier is pretty good, so long as your DM isn't a jerk about the mount. That said, I hope they differentiate it a little more from the Battlemaster.

I'm watching the video right now.

JC also said that they made some changes, so you would still have a good character without a horse. Said they looked at combining the Knight and the Cavalier into a single subclass.


The final version paraphrased. They took the best features of the Knight and took the best features of the Cavalier and wove them together into a new subclass. With both, they are "all about protecting others." So, the class features are about protecting those around him or her. They will still have features with a mount, but the mount makes the feature better, not being required.

[mephnick]

What did you think of the knight?

I just remember thinking it was "PAM the subclass", so not super useful if you could just take the feat. Mark was good though. They could make something nice out of a combo of Cav and Knight though with a few changes.

[alchahest]

I just hope that single class isn't the only way to mark / have an active way to defend allies.

[Maxilian]

I just hope that single class isn't the only way to mark / have an active way to defend allies.

Well you have defensive style (the one that let you guard an enemy that is near you if you using a shield)

[M Placeholder]

Apparently I got what they were going for, considering that my bard, in his back story, riled up a crowd to the point of rioting and burning down a concert venue because all his contract riders weren't met.

Were the riders a way to make sure the promoters were actually reading the contracts, to make sure that they weren't missing the bits about Programmed Illusion and what to do if it goes wrong?

[Oramac]

I'm excited for what's in it, but also incredibly disappointed that the Revised Ranger is apparently not in it.

[Anderlith]

When will we see stuff for the other classes?

[ZorroGames]

When will we see stuff for the other classes?

What classes were you expecting/hoping for?

[Millstone85]

When will we see stuff for the other classes?The five videos so far have been released as one video per day.

[Anderlith]

What classes were you expecting/hoping for?

Warlock, Wizard, & Paladin

[Naanomi]

I'd like to know new Cleric domains for world-building...

[Kane0]

Can't go through the videos now, can someone post a list of items confirmed?

[Degwerks]

When does the book come out?

[Millstone85]

I'd like to know new Cleric domains for world-building...Especially the Grave domain, which has the fluff the Death domain should have got.

Forge is welcome too.


When does the book come out?21 November, 2017 (http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/xanathars-guide-everything)

[Naanomi]

Especially the Grave domain, which has the fluff the Death domain should have got.
Eh, I'm not worried. Fluff is mutable, and except one spell on the list (which you already had access to as a Cleric) nothing in the Death domain is really evil/Undead oriented anyways

[M Placeholder]

Eh, I'm not worried. Fluff is mutable, and except one spell on the list (which you already had access to as a Cleric) nothing in the Death domain is really evil/Undead oriented anyways

There is also nothing in that Domain feature or spell wise (with the exception of Death Ward) that protects from Undead, and nothing that communes with the dead.

Nor is there anything else that fits with a Cleric of Kelemvor, so a different Domain was needed, and an official Grave one would fit nicely, unlike the Death domain. I hope that Grave is one of the Domains added, along with the Forge.

[nickl_2000]

Can't go through the videos now, can someone post a list of items confirmed?

I posted the list of subclasses that there are videos for. I'll try to remember to update the OP when more come out

[Millstone85]

Eh, I'm not worried. Fluff is mutable, and except one spell on the list (which you already had access to as a Cleric) nothing in the Death domain is really evil/Undead oriented anyways
There is also nothing in that Domain feature or spell wise (with the exception of Death Ward) that protects from Undead, and nothing that communes with the dead.

Nor is there anything else that fits with a Cleric of Kelemvor, so a different Domain was needed, and an official Grave one would fit nicely, unlike the Death domain. I hope that Death is one of the Domains added, along with the Forge.Alright, so let me rephrase that. I wish they had offered the fluff and crunch of the Grave domain from the get-go, and had called that the Death domain.

[Maxilian]

Just checked some old videos they posted, and with this old videos we can confirm or at least see what is not comming:

-Sharpshooter (subclass, not comming, like... ever)
-Forge Domain (Was quite popular, so most likely will see it in Xanathar)

https://youtu.be/VR8QhMMcIn8

[JumboWheat01]

I had forgotten about the Inquisitive Rogue... man, it seems like ages since that UA first came out. Glad to see that one has made the cut. I wonder which Cleric domain will make the cut, and which Wizard as well.

[DracoKnight]

I had forgotten about the Inquisitive Rogue... man, it seems like ages since that UA first came out. Glad to see that one has made the cut. I wonder which Cleric domain will make the cut, and which Wizard as well.

Well, it sounds like Forge probably made it in. And I swear to God, if the Lore Master made it in I'm gonna have a fit.

EDIT: I'm also really happy that the Inquisitive Rogue made it into XGtE.

[mephnick]

Well, it sounds like Forge probably made it in. And I swear to God, if the Lore Master made it in I'm gonna have a fit.

Almost certain the other cleric will be Grave. I thought they officially said Lore Master was dead at some point.

[DracoKnight]

Almost certain the other cleric will be Grave. I thought they officially said Lore Master was dead at some point.

I'd be okay with Grave making it in. It'd probably be too much to ask, but it would be cool if the Death Domain made it in as well. And it wasn't clear if they were talking about the lore master subclass or the lore wizard that Mearles was playing in Crawford's home game.

[Unoriginal]

I'm watching the video right now.

JC also said that they made some changes, so you would still have a good character without a horse. Said they looked at combining the Knight and the Cavalier into a single subclass.


The final version paraphrased. They took the best features of the Knight and took the best features of the Cavalier and wove them together into a new subclass. With both, they are "all about protecting others." So, the class features are about protecting those around him or her. They will still have features with a mount, but the mount makes the feature better, not being required.

...So, Eric the Cavalier from the old D&D cartoon?

[Mortis_Elrod]

...So, Eric the Cavalier from the old D&D cartoon?

Actually he was specifically mentioned in the video. So yes.

[Beechgnome]

Though this isn't subclasses related, worth noting Crawford tweeted on Sunday that Xanthar's will have more 'summoning spells' for druid/wizard etc. Good for the shepherd.

[Master O'Laughs]

Well, it sounds like Forge probably made it in. And I swear to God, if the Lore Master made it in I'm gonna have a fit.

EDIT: I'm also really happy that the Inquisitive Rogue made it into XGtE.

Didn't either they state the Lore Master was dead and would not see an official version?

[nickl_2000]

Didn't either they state the Lore Master was dead and would not see an official version?

Yes, although I can't remember where

[Chunkosaurus]

Yes, although I can't remember where

I think they commented on it when they put out the war wizard

[DracoKnight]

Forge Cleric is officially in Xanathar's. The D&D Beyond YouTube channel uploaded their Interview with Crawford briefly, and then pulled it back down. I'm assuming it'll be back up shortly.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Forge Cleric is officially in Xanathar's. The D&D Beyond YouTube channel uploaded their Interview with Crawford briefly, and then pulled it back down. I'm assuming it'll be back up shortly.

its no ua but its something i guess. Yay forge cleric.... Who else mad it in hat they are gonna show is the question.

[DracoKnight]

its no ua but its something i guess. Yay forge cleric.... Who else mad it in hat they are gonna show is the question.

They're talking about each subclass that made it into XGtE with this series.

[Mortis_Elrod]

They're talking about each subclass that made it into XGtE with this series.

Yeah i know, i hope they show more than the forge cleric today or whenever they put up the force cleric.

[DracoKnight]

Yeah i know, i hope they show more than the forge cleric today or whenever they put up the force cleric.

Nah, just the Forge Cleric.

So far - to recap:

Inquisitive Rogue
Horizon Walker Ranger
Cavalier Fighter
Circle of Dreams Druid
College of Glamour Bard
Forge Domain Cleric

6 of 25 revealed so far. :smallbiggrin:

[Millstone85]

Forge Cleric is officially in Xanathar's. The D&D Beyond YouTube channel uploaded their Interview with Crawford briefly, and then pulled it back down. I'm assuming it'll be back up shortly.The interview currently on the channel (but not the playlist for some reason) is with Mike Mearls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZznOH4-njM

I hope we can now count on a video each day outside weekends.

[nickl_2000]

The interview currently on the channel (but not the playlist for some reason) is with Mike Mearls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZznOH4-njM

I hope we can now count on a video each day outside weekends.

Got it and added it (and the link) to the OP. Thanks!

[Arkhios]

Nah, just the Forge Cleric.

So far - to recap:

Inquisitive Rogue
Horizon Walker Ranger
Cavalier Fighter
Circle of Dreams Druid
College of Glamour Bard
Forge Domain Cleric

6 of 25 revealed so far. :smallbiggrin:

I think it's safe to assume that Mastermind Rogue is one of those from SCAG that made it into XGTE as well since Crawford specifically mentioned both the Inquisitive and Mastermind in a "two sides of one coin" manner.

In that vein, Banneret would also make some sense if it was included alongside Cavalier as they seem to be thematically quite similar; knights each on their own right.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Anyone else think they will roll out Warlock and Wizard last?

My guess of preview video order will be

Monk > Sorcerer > Warlock and Wizard same day.

Lets All look back at the Forge Cleric and think of what if anything they might have changed before printing.

[No brains]

I wonder if it was a possible copyright issue that kept Crawford from naming Batman as another improbably good detective who could be called an inquisitive rogue. With the features he described and some of the pre-existing rogue features, Bats could be a perfect example.

[Zalabim]

I think it's safe to assume that Mastermind Rogue is one of those from SCAG that made it into XGTE as well since Crawford specifically mentioned both the Inquisitive and Mastermind in a "two sides of one coin" manner.

In that vein, Banneret would also make some sense if it was included alongside Cavalier as they seem to be thematically quite similar; knights each on their own right.
But they said the reprinted subclasses from SCAG were popular. There's no way Mastermind or Banneret/PDK makes it over a hurdle like that.

I wonder if it was a possible copyright issue that kept Crawford from naming Batman as another improbably good detective who could be called an inquisitive rogue. With the features he described and some of the pre-existing rogue features, Bats could be a perfect example.

My new thing is that Batman is a ranger. Or rangers are Batman. Yeah, that. Rangers are Batman. That's why they have the spell component pouch utility belt.

[Arkhios]

But they said the reprinted subclasses from SCAG were popular. There's no way Mastermind or Banneret/PDK makes it over a hurdle like that.

I'm sincerely curious: how would you know which subclasses are popular and which are not? According to these forums? Just a one (1) medium, and not everyone who plays D&D even uses giantitp.com.
Your own opinion doesn't equal to general opinion either. No offense meant.

[Millstone85]

In that vein, Banneret would also make some sense if it was included alongside Cavalier as they seem to be thematically quite similar; knights each on their own right.Crawford said the banneret/PDK wasn't coming along for the ride (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/872113560175861762), though.

[Zalabim]

I'm sincerely curious: how would you know which subclasses are popular and which are not? According to these forums? Just a one (1) medium, and not everyone who plays D&D even uses giantitp.com.
Your own opinion doesn't equal to general opinion either. No offense meant.

I took my first look at those classes and thought they wouldn't be popular.Their fluff goals are really appealing and their mechanical abilities are really not. So it's just my intuition speaking. Just my opinion. It's just a coincidence that I'm right. If I'm right.

[robbie374]

Almost certain the other cleric will be Grave. I thought they officially said Lore Master was dead at some point.

As far as I know there was never a statement about the Lore Master. There are lots of forum posts by people believing it to be OP and saying it's probably not in there, but nothing official.

For my part, I really hope Lore Master *is* in Xanathar's. I'm playing one now and it is very fun and not OP at all. I don't think most of the people who looked at it and complained about it actually tried it. I'd also like to see the Theurgy wizard: I'm hoping they changed their minds about having only one wizard subclass.

[Arkhios]

Crawford said the banneret/PDK wasn't coming along for the ride (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/872113560175861762), though.

Well, that settles it then. However, I would still say that Mastermind might get in because of the thematic similarity with the inquisitive (cue Sherlock Holmes vs. Moriarty); whether someone in the wide world felt differently about it or not!

[Aett_Thorn]

As far as I know there was never a statement about the Lore Master. There are lots of forum posts by people believing it to be OP and saying it's probably not in there, but nothing official.

For my part, I really hope Lore Master *is* in Xanathar's. I'm playing one now and it is very fun and not OP at all. I don't think most of the people who looked at it and complained about it actually tried it.

The Lore Master is one of those subclasses where it really depends on your level of meta-knowledge about the game to determine how OP it is. Being able to change damage types of spells to those types that aren't resisted by the enemy is clutch, and targeting weak saves on save-or-suck spells is masively OP, but ONLY if you know what to target.

If you don't have a lot of meta-knowledge, then it's totally not OP, but the class certainly rewards using meta-knowledge to exploit its abilities, which isn't necessarily a good trait to have. Even then, if you know that Force damage is the least resisted type over all (for an example), you can just routinely change your damage types to Force for the best chances of it not being resisted. And any wizard would be a fool to target a Hill Giant with a spell that required a Str or Con save, but the same spell with an Int saving throw? Well now it's much better.

And increasing spell's range to up to a mile? Yes, the DM might not give you many opportunities to use that, but once you realize how powerful that can be, you're likely to try to force the issue.

There are just a lot of individual balance issues with it that many players can take advantage of, but the ones who really know the game can absolutely break the class.

[Naanomi]

Lore wizard hasn't been formally ruled out, but the Devs seem a bit embarrassed by it in their responses to questions in the Sage advice... if it is to reappear I bet it will be significantly altered

[robbie374]

The Lore Master is one of those subclasses where it really depends on your level of meta-knowledge about the game to determine how OP it is. Being able to change damage types of spells to those types that aren't resisted by the enemy is clutch, and targeting weak saves on save-or-suck spells is masively OP, but ONLY if you know what to target.

If you don't have a lot of meta-knowledge, then it's totally not OP, but the class certainly rewards using meta-knowledge to exploit its abilities, which isn't necessarily a good trait to have. Even then, if you know that Force damage is the least resisted type over all (for an example), you can just routinely change your damage types to Force for the best chances of it not being resisted. And any wizard would be a fool to target a Hill Giant with a spell that required a Str or Con save, but the same spell with an Int saving throw? Well now it's much better.

And increasing spell's range to up to a mile? Yes, the DM might not give you many opportunities to use that, but once you realize how powerful that can be, you're likely to try to force the issue.

There are just a lot of individual balance issues with it that many players can take advantage of, but the ones who really know the game can absolutely break the class.

I see where you are coming from. Changing a spell's range like that is a bit extreme, and it would be reasonable for them to tweak that a bit, but it does come at a spell slot cost, so there is some balance there.

Damage type resistances are rather rare, and they are fairly easy to avoid in general. Yes, it comes up sometimes, but it isn't game-changing. And yes, you can change everything to force damage, but that's pretty lame. The point of the ability is to have a variation in your spell types: it's poor RP, and boring as a player honestly, to change everything to the same thing, unless your character is dedicated to that type for some reason, in which case I doubt force is your type of choice.

Save types do matter more, but even so it is only one per rest, and it only applies to a spell's first save, so longer duration spells don't last. It's fairly safe to change everything to Int saves. It's fun to make your enemy fail a save, but so far it hasn't changed the game dramatically: it's just a one turn deal that contributes to combat but hardly breaks the game. The target still has to roll, and can easily succeed even with the save change. Portent is more reliable, for instance.

There can certainly be tweaks, as expected with a playtest product, but overall it is a fun subclass that doesn't overshadow the others. Each other still has a niche with unique strengths, and the Lore Master is definitely not an auto-pick over the others.

[nickl_2000]

Updated to add Samurai - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6VVT7THzIE

-Based on "Seven Samurai" movie
-Samurai has duty, and puts it above everything else. Will die for it
-Boost of temp HP and attack with advantage for 1 round. Can do that 3 times per short rest. (called a micro-rage)
-Action surge + above ability to make a heroic last stand

[Maxilian]

Updated to add Samurai

-Based on "Seven Samurai" movie
-Samurai has duty, and puts it above everything else. Will die for it
-Boost of temp HP and attack with advantage for 1 round. Can do that 3 times. (called a micro-rage)
-Action surge + above ability to make a heroic last stand

wait... did it got confirmed?

[nickl_2000]

wait... did it got confirmed?

Yup, there is a new youtube video out there, see the OP for the link

[Unoriginal]

I'm kind of worried about the Samurai.

D&D does not have a good record concerning Samurai classes...



-Boost of temp HP and attack with advantage for 1 round. Can do that 3 times. (called a micro-rage)


Also should be noted it's 3 time per short rest.

[nickl_2000]

I'm kind of worried about the Samurai.

D&D does not have a good record concerning Samurai classes...[/QUOTE]

I'm not going to say that they were always the best, but I enjoyed playing a Samurai as a prestige class in 3 or 3.5




Also should be noted it's 3 time per short rest.

Good catch, I updated my notes

[Millstone85]

I was hoping they would confirm a subclass for each class before any got two.

But no.

[samcifer]

*sigh* Still waiting on Hexblade and Favored Soul...

[No brains]

My new thing is that Batman is a ranger. Or rangers are Batman. Yeah, that. Rangers are Batman. That's why they have the spell component pouch utility belt.

I didn't know you could take CRIME as a favored enemy! :smalltongue:

[Sigreid]

I didn't know you could take CRIME as a favored enemy! :smalltongue:

Favored enemy humanoid.

[Maxilian]

*sigh* Still waiting on Hexblade and Favored Soul...

Is it bad that i'm only interested in Hexblade because its potential as a dip and not as a full class?

IMHO that leaves a lot to say but still

[DracoKnight]

Is it bad that i'm only interested in Hexblade because its potential as a dip and not as a full class?

IMHO that leaves a lot to say but still

There are those of us who want the full class :smallbiggrin:

[Sigreid]

There are those of us who want the full class :smallbiggrin:

I can't get past the idea of making a pact with an intelligent weapon. Particularly not one not in the character's possession. The fluff feels wrong to me.

[samcifer]

Is it bad that i'm only interested in Hexblade because its potential as a dip and not as a full class?

IMHO that leaves a lot to say but still

I did the same. 2 hexblade and the rest favored soul.

[Maxilian]

I can't get past the idea of making a pact with an intelligent weapon. Particularly not one not in the character's possession. The fluff feels wrong to me.

I always imagined you had some kind of replica of the weapon (Your sword looks just like Blackrazor, but its not that weapon -Maybe that's your point, actually get the weapon, recover it from the place that have been it seals, the fool that think is worthy to wield such power, or just to recover what always should have been yours)

Note: I don't have that big of a problem with the fluff, is just that IMHO it does not go well with the way the archetype work, i mean... you get a Hound, at least that's cool (thematically) but unsure what that have to do with... well, any intelligent weapon.

Note2: That actually makes me want to play it with a MC in a Mystic Shadow and Light master :P

[DracoKnight]

I can't get past the idea of making a pact with an intelligent weapon. Particularly not one not in the character's possession. The fluff feels wrong to me.

The way my DM did this: when I summoned my pact weapon for the first time, he gave the sword a 12 INT, 13 WIS, 16 CHA. He also explained that it's a high powered sword, it's just that the properties of it are bound to the soul of its wielder (and those properties are the Hexblade subclass abilities). That's why I can use it when it's not around. If I die, it can give those abilities to someone else, but the sword doesn't have 1,000 warlocks. Each weapon can only have one warlock at a time.

[Maxilian]

The way my DM did this: when I summoned my pact weapon for the first time, he gave the sword a 12 INT, 13 WIS, 16 CHA. He also explained that it's a high powered sword, it's just that the properties of it are bound to the soul of its wielder (and those properties are the Hexblade subclass abilities). That's why I can use it when it's not around. If I die, it can give those abilities to someone else, but the sword doesn't have 1,000 warlocks. Each weapon can only have one warlock at a time.

Well... having in mind that most intelligent weapons in the DMG are *******s, so i would be surprised if they had like thousands of people that they whisper to, maybe to push to follow their God/creator or just do what they want.

[Sigreid]

The way my DM did this: when I summoned my pact weapon for the first time, he gave the sword a 12 INT, 13 WIS, 16 CHA. He also explained that it's a high powered sword, it's just that the properties of it are bound to the soul of its wielder (and those properties are the Hexblade subclass abilities). That's why I can use it when it's not around. If I die, it can give those abilities to someone else, but the sword doesn't have 1,000 warlocks. Each weapon can only have one warlock at a time.

Easier time with that. Like Elrick's bond with Stormbringer.

[DracoKnight]

Easier time with that. Like Elrick's bond with Stormbringer.

Exactly like that. And it also goes to the fluff of the weapon consuming souls (when you slay a creature under the effects of your Hexblade's curse you regain HP, it's because the patron is keeping you alive by channeling part of the life force of the soul into you so that it can feed on more souls). You can use your pact weapon with CHA, not because of your own abilities, but because your patron is joining its mind with yours, giving you a supernatural edge in the combat. You may be physically to weak to wield it effectively, but your patron empowers you to.

[Sigreid]

Exactly like that. And it also goes to the fluff of the weapon consuming souls (when you slay a creature under the effects of your Hexblade's curse you regain HP, it's because the patron is keeping you alive by channeling part of the life force of the soul into you so that it can feed on more souls). You can use your pact weapon with CHA, not because of your own abilities, but because your patron is joining its mind with yours, giving you a supernatural edge in the combat. You may be physically to weak to wield it effectively, but your patron empowers you to.

Well then, you simply must shout "blood and souls for my Lord Arioch!"

[DracoKnight]

Well then, you simply must shout "blood and souls for my Lord Arioch!"

Definitely - but yeah, that's how we do Hexblades at our table. Hopefully that can help at least some people reconcile the fluff :smallbiggrin:

[JumboWheat01]

I didn't know you could take CRIME as a favored enemy! :smalltongue:

I think I saw a silly D&D game where Minsc had Favored Enemy: Evil. Not saying it should be allowed, but still...

[Beechgnome]

I wonder if Samurai (and likely Kensai for Monk) is Wizards dipping their toes for a future Kara Tur campaign, in the same way Volo's with its jungle races (tabaxi, lizardfolk) and creatures (dinosaurs, grugs) hinted at Chult and Tomb of Annihilation a year later.

[Anderlith]

In my fluff, hexblades are a band of knights, who are sworn to their swords. I try to refluff the edgelord & shadowdarkevil out of it. Hexblade curse is more of a knightly challenge ect.

[Maxilian]

In my fluff, hexblades are a band of knights, who are sworn to their swords. I try to refluff the edgelord & shadowdarkevil out of it. Hexblade curse is more of a knightly challenge ect.

Well... i won't say its edgy, i mean... its as edgy as the weapon you decide it to be. (they do give the example of evil weapons though)

[Anderlith]

Well... i won't say its edgy, i mean... its as edgy as the weapon you decide it to be. (they do give the example of evil weapons though)

Hexblades are fluffed as drawing power from the Shadowfel.

[DracoKnight]

Shadow Sorcerer confirmed for XGtE. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xllcrXJ_q4Y)

[nickl_2000]

Shadow Sorcerer confirmed for XGtE. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xllcrXJ_q4Y)

Thanks, added it to the original post

[nickl_2000]

Shadow Sorcerer Video highlights as I see it:

-Plays with the boundary between life and death, dark humor character
-Has a Table of quirks with it (Mike Mearls favorite thing about it, e.g. heart beats once per hour)
-When they get dropped to 1 HP, once per rest, they go to 1 HP instead
-Hound of Ill Omen shows up as one of their abilities (said it didn't fit the hexblade as well)
-Can see in magical darkness
-Can do a lot with darkness

[DracoKnight]

-Hound of Ill Omen shows up as one of their abilities (said it didn't fit the hexblade as well)

This part of the video got me super-excited and I'm kind of taking it as soft-confirmation that Hexblade is in XGtE. Can't wait for that video :smallbiggrin:

[nickl_2000]

This part of the video got me super-excited and I'm kind of taking it as soft-confirmation that Hexblade is in XGtE. Can't wait for that video :smallbiggrin:

It's funny that the part you are most excited about has literally nothing to do with what they released :)

[DracoKnight]

It's funny that the part you are most excited about has literally nothing to do with what they released :)

Don't get me wrong, I like the shadow sorcerer and I'm glad it's in XGtE as it fills a niche that the PHB and SCAG Sorcs don't...but I like me some Hexblade even more :smallbiggrin:

[Spiritchaser]

Too bad that by the book, a shadow sorcerer won’t be able to use weapon cantrips, unless there are weapon cantrips in xanthars

[Maxilian]

Too bad that by the book, a shadow sorcerer won’t be able to use weapon cantrips, unless there are weapon cantrips in xanthars

Well they were going to move some of SCAG classes to Xanthars, so maybe they will do the same with the spells.

[DracoKnight]

Too bad that by the book, a shadow sorcerer won’t be able to use weapon cantrips, unless there are weapon cantrips in xanthars

Only if you're in AL and the cantrips aren't ported over to XGtE.

[Spiritchaser]

Only if you're in AL and the cantrips aren't ported over to XGtE.

I really think we could do with more weapon cantrips, to cover off other damage types. There’s certainly enough conceptual room for all kinds of different damage mechanisms or minor debuffs

Ah well, I can always hope

I don’t play AL but I do understand why limiting the books makes some sense, at least in the general case

[DracoKnight]

I really think we could do with more weapon cantrips, to cover off other damage types. There’s certainly enough conceptual room for all kinds of different damage mechanisms or minor debuffs

I completely agree 100%. And I'm totally not biased because I love playing gishes.

[Rogerdodger557]

Too bad that by the book, a shadow sorcerer won’t be able to use weapon cantrips, unless there are weapon cantrips in xanthars

Out of curiosity, why do you want the weapon cantrips for a shadow sorcerer? There really isn't anything about them that screams melee range combat.

[GandalfTheWhite]

Shadow Sorcerer confirmed for XGtE. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xllcrXJ_q4Y)

This makes me really happy. I like the shadow sorc.

Real talk, though: only 25 subclasses, with 12 classes...that means roughly 2 subclasses per class (with the exception of Wizard which gets only one). Which elemental sorcerers AREN'T we getting? If Sorcerer is the class that gets 3 subclasses then it looks like it's going to be Shadow Sorcerer, Favored Soul, and...one of Phoenix, Sea, or Stone...which do people want to see most? I'm deadlocked and unable to choose between Phoenix and Stone.

[DracoKnight]

Real talk, though

F*ck. My day just got a lot sadder.

[jaappleton]

This makes me really happy. I like the shadow sorc.

Real talk, though: only 25 subclasses, with 12 classes...that means roughly 2 subclasses per class (with the exception of Wizard which gets only one). Which elemental sorcerers AREN'T we getting? If Sorcerer is the class that gets 3 subclasses then it looks like it's going to be Shadow Sorcerer, Favored Soul, and...one of Phoenix, Sea, or Stone...which do people want to see most? I'm deadlocked and unable to choose between Phoenix and Stone.

Favored Soul is likely to make it, but it won't be called Favored Soul. Mearls stated in an interview awhile back that while fans liked the mechanics, it didn't feel like the FS of old.

If the Phoenix makes it, I hope its seriously buffed. Just once per day for Mantle of Flame is atrociously bad. Like the mechanics, but it needs to be able to do it more often.

I love Sea, but I want to see more support with the Cantrips to trigger with the Curse.

I believe Stone is out. I personally really like it, but it's in the wrong place. It should be a Fighter subclass. Let's be real; It's the Swordmage of 4E. That doesn't belong on a d6 class. I love the premise, I even like the execution, but it doesn't belong on the Sorc. Paladin, maybe? Paladin would work pretty well. Ranger would be interesting, too, especially since it gets some Smite spells.

[Nicrosil]

F*ck. My day just got a lot sadder.

RIP Planeteer Sorcerers.

[nickl_2000]

RIP Planeteer Sorcerers.

No one would have played the Heart Sorcerer anyways.

[GandalfTheWhite]

F*ck. My day just got a lot sadder.

My apologies, but that is what it appears we're looking at.

My bets:

KEY: If it's italicized, it's been confirmed by Mearles or Crawford via the D&D Beyond YT channel.

Barbarian: Path of the Ancestral Guardians, Path of the Storm Herald

Bard: College of Blades, College of Glamour

Cleric: Forge Domain, Grave Domain

Druid: Circle of Dreams, Circle of the Shepherd

Fighter: Martial Archetype: Arcane Archer, Martial Archetype: the Cavalier, Martial Archetype: the Samurai

Monk: Way of the Drunken Master, Way of the Kensei

Paladin: Oath of Conquest, Oath of Redemption

Ranger: Horizon Walker Conclave, Deep Stalker Conclave

Rogue: Roguish Archetype: the Inquisitive, Roguish Archetype: the Scout

Sorcerer: Favored Soul, Phoenix Sorcerer*, and Shadow Sorcerer

Warlock: Otherworldly Patron Celestial, Otherworldly Patron Hexblade

Wizard: War Wizard

For a grand total of 25 subclasses.

*As much as I love the Stone Sorcerer, many people were pissed that it rebooted the 4e Sword Mage as a CHA-caster.

[alchahest]

No one would have played the Heart Sorcerer anyways.

isn't that just a bard?

[nickl_2000]

isn't that just a bard?

Bards everywhere are insulted by your comparison of them to that lame kid from Captain Planet that got stuck with the heart ring.

[samcifer]

My apologies, but that is what it appears we're looking at.

My bets:

KEY: If it's italicized, it's been confirmed by Mearles or Crawford via the D&D Beyond YT channel.

Barbarian: Path of the Storm Herald, Path of the Zealot

Bard: College of Blades, College of Glamour

Cleric: Forge Domain, Grave Domain

Druid: Circle of Dreams, Circle of the Shepherd

Fighter: Martial Archetype: Arcane Archer, Martial Archetype: the Cavalier, Martial Archetype: the Samurai

Monk: Way of the Drunken Master, Way of the Kensei

Paladin: Oath of Conquest, Oath of Redemption

Ranger: Horizon Walker Conclave, Deep Stalker Conclave

Rogue: Roguish Archetype: the Inquisitive, Roguish Archetype: the Scout

Sorcerer: Favored Soul, Phoenix Sorcerer*, and Shadow Sorcerer

Warlock: Otherworldly Patron Celestial, Otherworldly Patron Hexblade

Wizard: War Wizard

For a grand total of 25 subclasses.

*As much as I love the Stone Sorcerer, many people were pissed that it rebooted the 4e Sword Mage as a CHA-caster.

Where'd you hear about the Shadow Sorcerer being confirmed?

[nickl_2000]

Where'd you hear about the Shadow Sorcerer being confirmed?

The D&D Beyond YouTube page (see my link in the first post of this thread)

[samcifer]

The D&D Beyong YouTube page (see my link in the first post of this thread)

Okay, I'm at work and it's been randomly busy here, so I missed when it was posted.

[nickl_2000]

Okay, I'm at work and it's been randomly busy here, so I missed when it was posted.

<SARCASM MARK>How dare you work instead of paying attention to new subclasses! Get your priories in order</SARCASM MARK>

[DracoKnight]

My apologies, but that is what it appears we're looking at.

My bets:

KEY: If it's italicized, it's been confirmed by Mearles or Crawford via the D&D Beyond YT channel.

Barbarian: Path of the Storm Herald, Path of the Zealot

Bard: College of Blades, College of Glamour

Cleric: Forge Domain, Grave Domain

Druid: Circle of Dreams, Circle of the Shepherd

Fighter: Martial Archetype: Arcane Archer, Martial Archetype: the Cavalier, Martial Archetype: the Samurai

Monk: Way of the Drunken Master, Way of the Kensei

Paladin: Oath of Conquest, Oath of Redemption

Ranger: Horizon Walker Conclave, Deep Stalker Conclave

Rogue: Roguish Archetype: the Inquisitive, Roguish Archetype: the Scout

Sorcerer: Favored Soul, Phoenix Sorcerer*, and Shadow Sorcerer

Warlock: Otherworldly Patron Celestial, Otherworldly Patron Hexblade

Wizard: War Wizard

For a grand total of 25 subclasses.

*As much as I love the Stone Sorcerer, many people were pissed that it rebooted the 4e Sword Mage as a CHA-caster.

I’m having a hard time finding a place where I can go “You’re WRONG!”

With as much as they’ve been talking about the polarity of the Feywild and Shadowfell, it makes sense that we’re gonna get a bunch of stuff related to them.

Dreams and Glamour + Shadow And Hexblade (again, I’m taking the shoutout to it in today’s video as soft-confirmation) all fit into those Planes.

[Daphne]

Barbarian: Path of the Storm Herald, Path of the Zealot
I doubt Zealot made the cut, I think Ancestral Spirit will be in Xanathar's as it even got a revision some time ago.

[GandalfTheWhite]

I doubt Zealot made the cut, I think Ancestral Spirit will be in Xanathar's as it even got a revision some time ago.

*facepalm* I’m an idiot. I was thinking of the Ancestral Guardians, but I said Zealot. I’ma fix that post haste.

[jaappleton]

I believe Arcane Archer was quasi-confirmed in a Mearls tweet.

Someone: "Why'd you approve of the Samurai over the Arcane Archer?"
Mearls: "Who said it's one or the other?" >_>

That's not the precise phrasing, but you get the idea.

EDIT: Source https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/915309609698521088

[DracoKnight]

I believe Arcane Archer was quasi-confirmed in a Mearls tweet.

Someone: "Why'd you approve of the Samurai over the Arcane Archer?"
Mearls: "Who said it's one or the other?" >_>

That's not the precise phrasing, but you get the idea.

I guess we’ll find out, won’t we? :smallbiggrin:

[GandalfTheWhite]

I believe Arcane Archer was quasi-confirmed in a Mearls tweet.

Someone: "Why'd you approve of the Samurai over the Arcane Archer?"
Mearls: "Who said it's one or the other?" >_>

That's not the precise phrasing, but you get the idea.

EDIT: Source https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/915309609698521088

That tracks with my predictions :smallbiggrin:

[Potato_Priest]

*facepalm* I’m an idiot. I was thinking of the Ancestral Guardians, but I said Zealot. I’ma fix that post haste.

I really like all of those and would be sad to see one not be included.

[Maxilian]

I think its more likely we get the Raven Queen Warlock than the Celestial (though i'm happy with more options for healing -reason why i would prefer tranquility monk over Drunken Master, but i guess one is more "thematic" than the other)

Note: I would also hate if we have Phoenix Sorcerer cause that mean that we won't have Sea Sorcerer or the stone one, and i like both way more than the Phoenix one (IMHO just play a draconic one, you are already most likely to play a Fire dragon one, so just give them more spells options and its set)

[Beechgnome]

I still hold out hope for a Kensai Monk, a Sea Sorcerer and a College of Whispers Bard, but all of those choices mentioned above are sound too.

[GandalfTheWhite]

I think its more likely we get the Raven Queen Warlock than the Celestial (though i'm happy with more options for healing -reason why i would prefer tranquility monk over Drunken Master, but i guess one is more "thematic" than the other)

Note: I would also hate if we have Phoenix Sorcerer cause that mean that we won't have Sea Sorcerer or the stone one, and i like both way more than the Phoenix one (IMHO just play a draconic one, you are already most likely to play a Fire dragon one, so just give them more spells options and its set)

Oh, don’t get me wrong: I would take Raven Queen over Celestial any day. Just as I would the Stone Sorcerer over the Phoenix Sorcerer.

My picks are based upon what they’ve said about player feedback.

Stone was reviled by fans of the 4e Sword Mage (although from people who just want a gish, it was very well-liked), and we’ve seen multiple iterations of the Celestial which says to me that it’s more likely to make it than the Raven Queen.

Also there’s the whole “general Patron vs. very specific entity debate.”

And (pardon the pun) I don’t think that the Sea Sorcerer has the cantrip support to make a splash just yet.

[Chunkosaurus]

Oh, don’t get me wrong: I would take Raven Queen over Celestial any day. Just as I would the Stone Sorcerer over the Phoenix Sorcerer.

My picks are based upon what they’ve said about player feedback.

Stone was reviled by fans of the 4e Sword Mage (although from people who just want a gish, it was very well-liked), and we’ve seen multiple iterations of the Celestial which says to me that it’s more likely to make it than the Raven Queen.

Also there’s the whole “general Patron vs. very specific entity debate.”

And (pardon the pun) I don’t think that the Sea Sorcerer has the cantrip support to make a splash just yet.

Honestly should they really cater to 4e fans and scrap the Stone Sorcerer? I say no. Mechanically I think this is probably the best full caster Gish that they have designed. The only thing I think competes is the revised College of Swords Bard, but they both feel and play entirely differently.

[Maxilian]

Oh, don’t get me wrong: I would take Raven Queen over Celestial any day. Just as I would the Stone Sorcerer over the Phoenix Sorcerer.

My picks are based upon what they’ve said about player feedback.

Stone was reviled by fans of the 4e Sword Mage (although from people who just want a gish, it was very well-liked), and we’ve seen multiple iterations of the Celestial which says to me that it’s more likely to make it than the Raven Queen.

Also there’s the whole “general Patron vs. very specific entity debate.”

And (pardon the pun) I don’t think that the Sea Sorcerer has the cantrip support to make a splash just yet.

Well i do agree that the Sea Sorcerer need more cantrip support, but they also said that they are adding many spells, so that could bring the love the Sea Sorcerer needed.

[rbstr]

I think its more likely we get the Raven Queen Warlock than the Celestial (though i'm happy with more options for healing -reason why i would prefer tranquility monk over Drunken Master, but i guess one is more "thematic" than the other)

I think Celestial is the most likely to make it since it was in the Revised Options UA. Plus it gives the class a more clearly good-aligned option.

If the Raven Queen was to make it they'd need to generic-ify the patron. My bet is that Hexblade and the Raven Queen will be rolled into a Shadow(fell) patron. You could merge the Raven/Familiar with the Hexblade curse's ability, for example. And, of course, have it actually balanced so it's not a ridiculous 1-level dip for every Cha caster.

There's your two Warlocks.

[DracoKnight]

Honestly should they really cater to 4e fans and scrap the Stone Sorcerer? I say no. Mechanically I think this is probably the best full caster Gish that they have designed. The only thing I think competes is the revised College of Swords Bard, but they both feel and play entirely differently.

Hear, hear!

EDIT: although, I’ll add the caveat that the Hexblade is pretty awesome, too. I like them both equally.

[Chunkosaurus]

I think Celestial is the most likely to make it since it was in the Revised Options UA. Plus it gives the class a more clearly good-aligned option.

If the Raven Queen was to make it they'd need to generic-ify the patron. My bet is that Hexblade and the Raven Queen will be rolled into a Shadow(fell) patron. You could merge the Raven/Familiar with the Hexblade curse's ability, for example. And, of course, have it actually balanced so it's not a ridiculous 1-level dip for every Cha caster.

There's your two Warlocks.

This is a smart well reasoned well thought out decision which is exactly why Wizards will do nothing of the sort

[Temperjoke]

To be honest, I'm glad the Shadow sorcerer made it. I was afraid that they had scrapped the idea when they tried taking elements from it for the Hexblade Warlock.

[Kane0]

This is a smart well reasoned well thought out decision which is exactly why Wizards will do nothing of the sort

Won't stop me from hoping!

[Millstone85]

Also there’s the whole “general Patron vs. very specific entity debate.”
If the Raven Queen was to make it they'd need to generic-ify the patron.That's easy. Just rename it as the Reaper, the Psychopomp or just the Raven, with the queen as an example.

It is like how the Celestial used to be the Undying Light. A plane as a patron? That sure was a novel idea, or not if you agree with me that's the flufff of a sorcerer, but then they went back to the proven formula.


My bet is that Hexblade and the Raven Queen will be rolled into a Shadow(fell) patron.The Hexblade being a Shadowfell thing might be a problem too. Back in 4e, your magic weapon could be Expylibur as gifted by the Lady of the White Well, or it could the the flaming sword of a fallen angel, or a blade forged from a strange meteorite.

[Saiga]

I hope Stone Sorceror is in. It's the most exciting of the Sorceror archetypes and it promotes the most different playstyle of any of the origins. If Sorceror is getting three subclasses while most get two, surely they can afford to give it one of the more unique ones.

[Kane0]

Well if Shadow is in already and I have money on Favored Soul the third one (if there is) would most likely be stone or phoenix.

Celestial lock would be fantastic, as would Kensei monk.

[Foxhound438]

This makes me really happy. I like the shadow sorc.

Real talk, though: only 25 subclasses, with 12 classes...that means roughly 2 subclasses per class (with the exception of Wizard which gets only one). Which elemental sorcerers AREN'T we getting? If Sorcerer is the class that gets 3 subclasses then it looks like it's going to be Shadow Sorcerer, Favored Soul, and...one of Phoenix, Sea, or Stone...which do people want to see most? I'm deadlocked and unable to choose between Phoenix and Stone.

Approximately 2 ea, sure, but remember that SCAG came with 2 monk and 2 rogue archetypes and nothing for bard, druid, or ranger. No rule says the new stuff has to be evenly distributed between all classes.

As such, I would expect something like:
2 for Barbarian
2 for Bard
2 for Cleric
3 for Druid
3 for Fighter
1 for Monk
2 for Paladin
3 for Ranger
1 for Rogue
3 for Sorcerer (my guess is shadow, FS, and phoenix... a lot of people liked the fluff of phoenix but just wished for better execution, while sea is a little too close to storm in terms of fluff and stone was apparently unpopular)
2 for Warlock
1 for Wizard

and reprint maybe sun soul, swashbuckler, and bladesinger to pad out those classes in terms of content in the book, and some other stuff, and I wouldn't be surprised to see even more options for totem barbarians.

And for what it's worth, I'm not 100% sold that hexblade will be included, and i'm 99% sure that if it were it would have some major changes. Both of these assumptions are because I, and many others, look at it and say it's just too good. My guess would be that they cut shadow hound altogether (they said it didn't work well for them, after all), and split its two first level abilities and give the charisma based attacks at 6 instead. Keep armor proficiency at 1 of course, but I don't think it would be horrible to not give weapons from the first level since you would be able to get any weapon at level 3, and that would make for a nice pairing off of features and mechanical progression for your character.


But what I'm really interested in is those dozens of new spells... Will rangers get useful spells past L1? Are paladins finally going to have to really weigh the cost of smiting for pure damage? I wouldn't mind some more weapon cantrips as well.

[Millstone85]

No rule says the new stuff has to be evenly distributed between all classes.

As such, I would expect something like:I was sure we were promised 2+ new subclasses for each class except wizard. However, rereading the relevant tweets...

link (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/871071659825872896)

In Xanathar's Guide, each class gets 2 or more subclasses. The wizard gets 1.

link (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/872109482326839296)

The 25+ new subclasses in Xanathar's Guide have all appeared in UA at some point. They're joined by a few subclasses from the SCAG.

You might be right. 2+ subclasses per class, 25+ new subclasses in total, but not necessarily 2+ new subclasses per class. :smallannoyed:

[Kane0]

Really hoping theurge wizard.

[Dudu]

There is also nothing in that Domain feature or spell wise (with the exception of Death Ward) that protects from Undead, and nothing that communes with the dead.

Nor is there anything else that fits with a Cleric of Kelemvor, so a different Domain was needed, and an official Grave one would fit nicely, unlike the Death domain. I hope that Grave is one of the Domains added, along with the Forge.

I think it'll be a new domain.

Travel domain is a classic. Competition domain (Kord?). Glory domain. Justice or Retribution domain (St. Cuthbert, the egyptian Osyris). Art domain (Some elven god, Corelon Larethian maybe) and even Party domain (Olidamara, or the greek, Bachus).

Grave is a different take on death. I don't see too much need on it.

[miburo]

3 for Sorcerer (my guess is shadow, FS, and phoenix... a lot of people liked the fluff of phoenix but just wished for better execution, while sea is a little too close to storm in terms of fluff and stone was apparently unpopular)
2

Do you know where the designers said that Stone Sorc was unpopular? In the GitP bubble it's conceptually popular due to being the second coming of the Swordmage, but I wouldn't be surprised if the wider base didn't necessarily like it.

Too bad, I really want that class...

[DracoKnight]

Do you know where the designers said that Stone Sorc was unpopular? In the GitP bubble it's conceptually popular due to being the second coming of the Swordmage, but I wouldn't be surprised if the wider base didn't necessarily like it.

Too bad, I really want that class...

Mearles tweeted something/said something in an interview about a “sword mage class that didn’t work.”

[Shadow_in_the_Mist]

Grave is a different take on death. I don't see too much need on it.

That's exactly why people want it, though. The DMG's "Death" domain is patterned on the idea of Death the Reaper, whilst the UA's "Grave" domain is patterned on the idea of Death the Judge. One is about killing, one is about looking after the spirits of the deceased. Nerull and Bhaal vs. Wee Jas and Kelemvor, in a nutshell.

They may seem superficially similar, but really, they're very different ideas. As is, the present Death domain is only useful for the malevolent "Death Priests" of AD&D's Complete Book of Necromancy, and completely useless for priests of gods like Wee Jas, the Raven Queen, Kelemvor or Anubis.

...Okay, the Raven Queen would have both Death and Grave, arguably, but my point remains.

[Naanomi]

and reprint maybe sun soul, swashbuckler, and bladesinger to pad out those classes in terms of content in the book, and some other stuff, and I wouldn't be surprised to see even more options for totem barbarians.
They were pretty clear that no FR specific stuff was getting a reprint from SCAG... that cuts out Sun Soul (which is easy to refluff but is very FR fluffbound as is) and probably Bladesinger (which started as a generic 'elf class' but has been tied to FR pretty tightly since 2.5e or so)

I'd guess we will see Oath of the Crown (although the mechanics are not well loved, it is a fairly obvious Oath concept... and good variety in Paladin Oath fluff has been difficult to generate if 'two other anti-Paladins!' is any indicator)

We may also see Undying patron again, especially if they are expanding Invocations to include some patron specific ones. If they leave it out, but do include such invocations, I hope they throw it a bone in a web-enhancement or player's companion type free product to give it similar options to the others (instead of being further left behind by being printed in the wrong book)

This plus maybe Arcana Cleric and one or both of the rogue classes of course

[Potato_Priest]

My bet on the SCAG subclasses are these: Battlerager, Storm Sorcerer, Swashbuckler and Arcana Cleric.

All of those are relatively well-designed, popular subclasses. (I can't say I'm very familiar with storm sorcerer but I've heard that people like it?)

[Naanomi]

My bet on the SCAG subclasses are these: Battlerager, Storm Sorcerer, Swashbuckler and Arcana Cleric.
Battlerager is another subclass that, while easily refluffable to any setting, is highly tied to Forgotten Realms specific fluff and thus unlikely to be reprinted here. Both monk subclasses, purple dragon knight (unless renamed to the generic 'banneret' suggestion), and Bladesinger as well

[Anderlith]

Why does everyone think the Sorcerer gets the extra class? Why not an extra Warlock or Monk?

[suplee215]

Why does everyone think the Sorcerer gets the extra class? Why not an extra Warlock or Monk?

Sorcerer is in dire need of more subclasses IMO. Wild Magic subclass is too random for a ton of people's liking and can be ignored by the DM easily so you just play base Sorcerer. Dragon Sorcerer is ok but everyone picks fire usually and doesn't have the variety one hopes. Storm is not bad but it can use some more love. Warlock and Monk both has 3 PHB subclasses. Sorcerer also had some of the most UA material, especially compared to Monk and Warlock. Monk just didn't have enough for 3, the peaceful monk was dead on arrival. Warlock I think had a few more UAs but most seemed to be replaced by the next. I guess Hex Blade and Celestial for it as Raven Queen confused everyone even if it was well received ability wise. I do think there are other candidates for 3rd, Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue, Paladin and Cleric all seems to have decent UA love.

[Saiga]

Sorceror has had enough UAs that getting 2 subclasses would leave the majority on the cutting room floor. That kind of feels bad.

I do wish we got Raven Queen for Warlocks, I thought the mechanics and flavour were both cool. Hopefully they salvage it via invocations somehow if the subclass doesn't make it (I really like the raven being a separate pet from Find Familiar, so I can have a pair of Ravens - Huginn/Munnin style).

Does anyone think Sentinel Raven could be appropriate as an invocation?

[Arkhios]

Does anyone think Sentinel Raven could be appropriate as an invocation?

Aye. In fact, I could see it as Sentinel Ravens (in plural, yes) with a clause that they had to be Ravens and maybe take a swarm-like form.

As for Sorcerers vs Wizards and lack of options, I agree that Sorcerers need more while Wizards really don't. Wizard would be fine with just one new Tradition, an universalist that isn't tied to a single race. I doubt it'll be war wizard though. Bladesinger is already too similar in concept. I'd bet Lore Master albeit with heavy nerfs to the earlier version.

While I also agree with Draconic Sorcerer's lack of spell choices other than a very narrow selection of mostly fire spells, Draconic Origin is still very good option for "all elements" type of sorcerer, with or without subtle refluff. The spell selection is easy to remedy with new spells where they are lacking of type. No need to reinvent the wheels in that regard by polluting the books with "all planeteer options".

Other planes and the like such as Feywild, Shadowfell, and Celestial, as well as the Earth/Stone, as the Origins make much more sense to be added.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Aye. In fact, I could see it as Sentinel Ravens (in plural, yes) with a clause that they had to be Ravens and maybe take a swarm-like form.

As for Sorcerers vs Wizards and lack of options, I agree that Sorcerers need more while Wizards really don't. Wizard would be fine with just one new Tradition, an universalist that isn't tied to a single race. I doubt it'll be war wizard though. Bladesinger is already too similar in concept. I'd bet Lore Master albeit with heavy nerfs to the earlier version.

While I also agree with Draconic Sorcerer's lack of spell choices other than a very narrow selection of mostly fire spells, Draconic Origin is still very good option for "all elements" type of sorcerer, with or without subtle refluff. The spell selection is easy to remedy with new spells where they are lacking of type. No need to reinvent the wheels in that regard by polluting the books with "all planeteer options".

Other planes and the like such as Feywild, Shadowfell, and Celestial, as well as the Earth/Stone, as the Origins make much more sense to be added.

Agreed. Add in an Infernal/Abyssian Sorcerer too. Yes its getting dangerously close to warlocks, but i think there's a difference with inheriting infernal powers and getting them contractually, Sorcerers could be transformative with their Origins.

[Saiga]

Shadow Sorcerer Video highlights as I see it:

-Plays with the boundary between life and death, dark humor character
-Has a Table of quirks with it (Mike Mearls favorite thing about it, e.g. heart beats once per hour)
-When they get dropped to 1 HP, once per rest, they go to 1 HP instead
-Hound of Ill Omen shows up as one of their abilities (said it didn't fit the hexblade as well)
-Can see in magical darkness
-Can do a lot with darkness

So, the only thing of note here is that their Strength of the Grave ability is once per rest now. The ability to see in Magical Darkness appears to still just be the Darkness they create (they say "and they can see through that Darkness" when talking about the ability to create Darkness).

Hound of Ill Omen was always their level 6 ability, and I'm pretty sure Shadow Hound was dropped from Hexblade after the revised UA Invocations changed the hound related invocations to work off Hex and Bestow Curse instead.

[Rogerdodger557]

Celestial Warlock confirmed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfEWMNe2Q8M

[nickl_2000]

Celestial Warlock confirmed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfEWMNe2Q8M

Wow, that was early this morning. Updating my post

[Beechgnome]

Celestial Warlock confirmed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfEWMNe2Q8M

I like how the closed-captioning people can't for the life of them figure out how to spell Couatl. Kuwa-wha?

[Rogerdodger557]

Wow, that was early this morning. Updating my post

To my surprise as well.

[Arkhios]

Agreed. Add in an Infernal/Abyssian Sorcerer too. Yes its getting dangerously close to warlocks, but i think there's a difference with inheriting infernal powers and getting them contractually, Sorcerers could be transformative with their Origins.

Oh, totally agree. Fiendish origin would be a decent addition. Just as with the recently confirmed Celestial Warlock, Mike Mearls said, that "Warlocks share their magic with their patron, while clerics are given the magic by their god" or whatever.

Sorcerers however, are born with the power; alternatively, in the case of "an experiment gone wrong", a sorcerer may not have wanted the power, but still has it and just can't get rid of it.

[Degwerks]

Celestial Warlock confirmed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfEWMNe2Q8M

Good to know. This made my sheriff's badge pucker up though, I really want to see Hexblade make it into the book.

[nickl_2000]

Celestial Warlock - Notes from the video that I saw


-Celestial being could be a Unicorn even (any good aligned powerful celestial being) :)
-They are a healer, get cure wounds
-First class feature allows them to heal
-Deals with Radiant energy


Not a lot of actual content spoilers, but a lot of fluff and feel in the video today

[nickl_2000]

Good to know. This made my sheriff's badge pucker up though, I really want to see Hexblade make it into the book.

There's a lot of subclasses left. Besides if Hexblade isn't in the final, there may be a revolt and people marching on WotC headquarters with Pitchforks and Torches

[Saiga]

Celestial Warlock - Notes from the video that I saw


-Celestial being could be a Unicorn even (any good aligned powerful celestial being) :)
-They are a healer, get cure wounds
-First class feature allows them to heal
-Deals with Radiant energy


Not a lot of actual content spoilers, but a lot of fluff and feel in the video today

Sounds like the re-worked Favoured Soul. I didn't like the "here, you get Cure Wounds and a healing feature" of Favoured Soul, so I'm hoping this handles it better. Also, two subclasses working in such a similar way would just be lame.

Though, that sounds like it could be identical to the last UA - Cure Wounds was part of the expanded spell list, and they got a dice version of Lay on Hands. That's not too bad I guess, but I am kind of sick of getting "it's a light themed subclass, so here, get used to healing".

[Lombra]

There's a lot of subclasses left. Besides if Hexblade isn't in the final, there may be a revolt and people marching on WotC headquarters with Pitchforks and Torches

I actually didn't like the hexblade. Felt like a patch up for the poor work made on the pact of the blade. I'd rather get a reworked blade pact that actually works well with all warlock patrons rather then having a specific patron to make the pact effective.

[Arkhios]

Sounds like the re-worked Favoured Soul. I didn't like the "here, you get Cure Wounds and a healing feature" of Favoured Soul, so I'm hoping this handles it better. Also, two subclasses working in such a similar way would just be lame.

Though, that sounds like it could be identical to the last UA - Cure Wounds was part of the expanded spell list, and they got a dice version of Lay on Hands. That's not too bad I guess, but I am kind of sick of getting "it's a light themed subclass, so here, get used to healing".

That is actually pretty astute interpretation! I didn't even think about that! But really, Favored Soul as a Warlock makes much more sense than as a Sorcerer. As a bonus, Warlock chassis already has the built-in possibility to get Extra Attack and to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised at all, if along with the Celestial Patron there'd be a radiant version of Lifedrinker invocation.

Although, at least regarding the expanded spell list, you don't have to pick any of those spells if you don't want to. I have a feeling, though, that the dice pool version of lay on hands might not be in the book, except maybe as an invocation for the celestial patron.

[Spiritchaser]

I actually didn't like the hexblade. Felt like a patch up for the poor work made on the pact of the blade. I'd rather get a reworked blade pact that actually works well with all warlock patrons rather then having a specific patron to make the pact effective.

I understand what you mean, and would submit that with some invocation and pact tweaks, you could make any patron work more smoothly with pact of the blade

But

As is, hexblade is fun, powerful, versatile enough, can have a number of different sensible build styles and has play styles other than just “use eldritch blast on target” more often than many warlocks It is very close to a bird in hand. (I hope)

If blade pact, or even warlock in general sees revisions later then more power to us, but in the meantime let’s enjoy what we have... ( or what I hope we get)

[Maxilian]

Sounds like the re-worked Favoured Soul. I didn't like the "here, you get Cure Wounds and a healing feature" of Favoured Soul, so I'm hoping this handles it better. Also, two subclasses working in such a similar way would just be lame.

Though, that sounds like it could be identical to the last UA - Cure Wounds was part of the expanded spell list, and they got a dice version of Lay on Hands. That's not too bad I guess, but I am kind of sick of getting "it's a light themed subclass, so here, get used to healing".

Well i do like the options of more healers (not that many option for good ones) but you could also take the invocation that let all your heals be max and go tank :P

[jaappleton]

Celestial Warlock confirmed.

[samcifer]

I understand what you mean, and would submit that with some invocation and pact tweaks, you could make any patron work more smoothly with pact of the blade

But

As is, hexblade is fun, powerful, versatile enough, can have a number of different sensible build styles and has play styles other than just “use eldritch blast on target” more often than many warlocks It is very close to a bird in hand. (I hope)

If blade pact, or even warlock in general sees revisions later then more power to us, but in the meantime let’s enjoy what we have... ( or what I hope we get)

I like being a hexblade/favored soul multiclass. a wider list of spells on the sorc side and better defense as well as melee options on the warlock side so I can mix things up as well as have more survivability.

[rbstr]

It doesn't sound like the Celestial got changed much from what we saw.
Sounds good to me, the class was pretty ready to roll except for the level 6 feature.
Radiant Soul is piddly damage added a to big spell, doesn't enable anything to compete with eldritch blast and doesn't give really anything to someone that wants to go blade-pact.

As far as the desire to see Hexblade. That seems to mostly come from it being broken?
Like, it was really bad. I mean, the idea is cool and I'd love to see a hexblade but the implementation we saw was immense powercreep on how strong Warlock Patron features are and on official full-caster+melee archetypes. That's before you even get to how ridiculous a single-level multiclass dip is for any cha caster.
The best part of it all is that, even though everyone's like "this is a bladepact fix", it's the best eldritch blaster of all of them thanks to the Hexblade curse.
The quick fix would be to strip the Cha-to-hit and make the curse scale on warlock levels somehow, rather than proficiency bonus. Weapon/Armor profs and the curse is still a VERY strong first level feature for what is a full caster.

Besides the hexblade...the idea that bladelock needs more than just a couple small tweaks is mistaken given how the rest of the classes are designed and balanced. Improved pact weapon does a lot. They should probably also add something to bump damage at higher levels.
But, if they want some kind of extensive "fix" for bladelock, they can easily add invocations that are more powerful and basically supersede what we have. That works for all patrons. For example, have a new invocation be Thirsting Blade, except better

[prototype00]

Hmm, what were the other possible Warlock subclasses for the final (minimally) slot? Hexblade, Raven Queen... and thats it? (Well, it might be a reprint of the Undying from SCAG, that would suck).

I'm just hoping they reprint booming blade! That way, I get to play the mobile Raven Queen/Vengeance Paladin retribution-pal lock.

prototype00

[Aett_Thorn]

Hmm, what were the other possible Warlock subclasses for the final (minimally) slot? Hexblade, Raven Queen... and thats it? (Well, it might be a reprint of the Undying from SCAG, that would suck).

I'm just hoping they reprint booming blade! That way, I get to play the mobile Raven Queen/Vengeance Paladin retribution-pal lock.

prototype00

Honestly, I think that they're probably going to have the Raven Queen over the Hexblade. However, I am hoping that we will get to see some of the Hexblade features as invocations that you can take, which will hopefully help out Bladelocks a bit.

[jaappleton]

Honestly, I think that they're probably going to have the Raven Queen over the Hexblade. However, I am hoping that we will get to see some of the Hexblade features as invocations that you can take, which will hopefully help out Bladelocks a bit.

Having Pact of the Blade automatically grant Medium Armor and (possibly) Shield proficiency would go a LONG way toward making Bladelocks right.

[Spiritchaser]

Having Pact of the Blade automatically grant Medium Armor and (possibly) Shield proficiency would go a LONG way toward making Bladelocks right.

There also needs to be an advantage to being a bladelock, a reason you'd actually want to be in melee. You're taking considerably more risk than you are blasting from range.

Hexblade can have that with the right invocations. Opportunistic "smites" on short rest recharge aren't for everyone, but they're valid.

Now: There are a lot of other ways you could incentivize melee range for blade pact warlocks. This could be in the blade pact itself, or with invocations, or with base rule changes but hexblade was the thing that actually

Gave the warlock a good reason to be in melee
Gave the warlock the tools to be there.

You could even argue that the hexblade curse bonus damage should only have applied at melee range, or say, within 15' if you want to compromise.

I wouldn't argue.

I just hope we get it.

[DarkKnightJin]

Having Pact of the Blade automatically grant Medium Armor and (possibly) Shield proficiency would go a LONG way toward making Bladelocks right.

That would make me a happy camper. And it'd make sense for the pact boon, too.

Possibly an Invocation for Blade that lets you use Cha instead of Str or Dex, and we'll be happy as a clam.

[Maxilian]

That would make me a happy camper. And it'd make sense for the pact boon, too.

Possibly an Invocation for Blade that lets you use Cha instead of Str or Dex, and we'll be happy as a clam.

Pretty sure that was the whole reason many people liked Hexblade (the CHA instead of STR or DEX) -can't say i'm not one of those-, so yeah...

[Eragon123]

It doesn't sound like the Celestial got changed much from what we saw.
Besides the hexblade...the idea that bladelock needs more than just a couple small tweaks is mistaken given how the rest of the classes are designed and balanced. Improved pact weapon does a lot. They should probably also add something to bump damage at higher levels.
But, if they want some kind of extensive "fix" for bladelock, they can easily add invocations that are more powerful and basically supersede what we have. That works for all patrons. For example, have a new invocation be Thirsting Blade, except better

I'm playing a Fey Patron Blade Lock in a campaign and its a lot of fun but we did have some homebrews.
For thirsting blade we made a level 6 version that tacked on War Magic. So I could cast a cantrip or spell and make a bonus action swing. At first we limited it to just cantrips but then the DM expanded it to spells as warlocks don't have that many slots in the first place.

We also added an invocation for "Spectral Armor" that works just like the sword. It's prerequisites are level 4 and pact of the blade.

And honestly while the war magic may be a bit strong. I've had a ton of fun and haven't felt like I've overshadowed the table. Maybe that's because I'm using a suboptimal strategy; which is Armor of Agythy's and blade ward. Add on Heavy Armor Mastery and bam! you got yourself a thorns build.

[jaappleton]

Fellow playgrounder DracoKnight and myself realized something:

Any archetype that received a bonus spell list in UA... That bonus spell list is likely bull****.

XGtE has confirmed new spells.

None of these new archetypes are going to take advantage of those?

[Eragon123]

Fellow playgrounder DracoKnight and myself realized something:

Any archetype that received a bonus spell list in UA... That bonus spell list is likely bull****.

XGtE has confirmed new spells.

None of these new archetypes are going to take advantage of those?

Maybe maybe not. It's hard to speculate on that end right now. My prediction is probably closer to half and half. Half new half old.

[Kane0]

Awww yeah Celestial Lock love it!

[Beechgnome]

Hmm, what were the other possible Warlock subclasses for the final (minimally) slot? Hexblade, Raven Queen... and thats it? (Well, it might be a reprint of the Undying from SCAG, that would suck).

I'm just hoping they reprint booming blade! That way, I get to play the mobile Raven Queen/Vengeance Paladin retribution-pal lock.

prototype00

There was also The Seeker pact from the Faithful UA. I didn't like the star chain pact, but the rest of it was different enough from the other Warlocks. If it doesn't make it, I'd understand (I think Hexblade in some form fills a better need) but I'll still keep running my 7th level Seeklock/4th level Favored Soul Dr. Strange clone.

[Foxhound438]

There's a lot of subclasses left. Besides if Hexblade isn't in the final, there may be a revolt and people marching on WotC headquarters with Pitchforks and Torches

Hey, while you're there you can skewer whoever decided it would be okay to drop cardstock and print quality for MTG cards while simultaneously raising prices

[jaappleton]

Hey, while you're there you can skewer whoever decided it would be okay to drop cardstock and print quality for MTG cards while simultaneously raising prices

You’d have to go to the Hasbro offices for that one.

[RazDelacroix]

My apologies everyone, for this scene immediately popped into my head while I was watching the Celestial Warlock Video.

"We tried our best to raise our daughter right. My wife is a proper paladin, and I am a cleric, and we both thought that raising our daughter away from the villainous clutches of the wretched sinful city sprawl would be safest for her. Then... Well..."

"Mommy! Daddy! Look! I can shoot rainbows from my hands now!"

"Now she's a warlock! Oh where did we go wrong?!"

"Our daughter found a unicorn. No parent wants to hear how their child made a warlock pact, but here we are. All we can do now is try to help her down the right path."

"Boom boom! Evil sneaky goblins aren't going to be curdling any milk tonight!"

"No adventuring until your eighteen young lady!"

[Foxhound438]

You’d have to go to the Hasbro offices for that one.

eh, even so, it's just a short 934 hour walk (https://www.google.com/search?q=directions+from+wizards+of+the+coast+head quarters+to+hasbro+headquarters&oq=directions+from+wizards+of+the+coast+headquarte rs+to+hasbro+headquarters&gs_l=psy-ab.3...31278.46471.0.47600.21.18.0.0.0.0.429.2529. 0j6j5j0j1.12.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..13.2.370...33i22i29i30k1.0.g3N0Yg3N2d8)

[jaappleton]

eh, even so, it's just a short 934 hour walk (https://www.google.com/search?q=directions+from+wizards+of+the+coast+head quarters+to+hasbro+headquarters&oq=directions+from+wizards+of+the+coast+headquarte rs+to+hasbro+headquarters&gs_l=psy-ab.3...31278.46471.0.47600.21.18.0.0.0.0.429.2529. 0j6j5j0j1.12.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..13.2.370...33i22i29i30k1.0.g3N0Yg3N2d8)

One does not simply walk to Mordor...

[Temperjoke]

My apologies everyone, for this scene immediately popped into my head while I was watching the Celestial Warlock Video.

"We tried our best to raise our daughter right. My wife is a proper paladin, and I am a cleric, and we both thought that raising our daughter away from the villainous clutches of the wretched sinful city sprawl would be safest for her. Then... Well..."

"Mommy! Daddy! Look! I can shoot rainbows from my hands now!"

"Now she's a warlock! Oh where did we go wrong?!"

"Our daughter found a unicorn. No parent wants to hear how their child made a warlock pact, but here we are. All we can do now is try to help her down the right path."

"Boom boom! Evil sneaky goblins aren't going to be curdling any milk tonight!"

"No adventuring until your eighteen young lady!"

See this is cute.

What popped into my head was a Protector/Scourge Aasimar's guide serving a dual purpose as the Pact Patron too for a Celestial Pact (alongside that came the thought of a Fallen Aasimar having a Fiend Pact)

[samcifer]

My apologies everyone, for this scene immediately popped into my head while I was watching the Celestial Warlock Video.

"We tried our best to raise our daughter right. My wife is a proper paladin, and I am a cleric, and we both thought that raising our daughter away from the villainous clutches of the wretched sinful city sprawl would be safest for her. Then... Well..."

"Mommy! Daddy! Look! I can shoot rainbows from my hands now!"

"Now she's a warlock! Oh where did we go wrong?!"

"Our daughter found a unicorn. No parent wants to hear how their child made a warlock pact, but here we are. All we can do now is try to help her down the right path."

"Boom boom! Evil sneaky goblins aren't going to be curdling any milk tonight!"

"No adventuring until your eighteen young lady!"

Yay! Now tell us the one about the robot wizard who talks to empty barrels...

[Millstone85]

What popped into my head was a Protector/Scourge Aasimar's guide serving a dual purpose as the Pact Patron too for a Celestial Pact (alongside that came the thought of a Fallen Aasimar having a Fiend Pact)Yeah, this is perfect if you want your race to also be your class, so to speak. You do not have to say that you made a pact, just that you are particularly attentive to the teachings of your angelic guide and how they resonate with your own celestial heritage.

[Naanomi]

Yeah, this is perfect if you want your race to also be your class, so to speak. You do not have to say that you made a pact, just that you are particularly attentive to the teachings of your angelic guide and how they resonate with your own celestial heritage.
Then multiclass with Favored Soul (just your aasimar powers growing stronger)

[Aett_Thorn]

So what class do we think that we're going to be getting a sublcass description of today?

So far, we haven't gotten Barbarian, Wizard, Paladin, or Monk. I am betting that we see Barbarian today.

[jaappleton]

I’m trying to think of how, and how well, they could do a video about something exciting and new, like spells or Feats, without actually revealing them. They could just rattle off a list of spell names, and the astute with knowledge of previous editions would pick up on some, but that’s really about it, I think. Huh.

That said, I agree, I think the Barbarian is in play. They’ve revealed two fighters, one Bard, one Cleric, one Sorc, one Rogue, one Ranger, one Druid, one Warlock, right?

Barbarian is very much in play.

Is it weird if I’m really hoping for a totally out of left field Monk archetype that they haven’t spoken of at all? Like out of left field, “Here’s the Dark Moon Monk!” I just wasn’t impressed at all with any of the UA Monk archetypes, except Tranquility, which simply isn’t my style.

[Millstone85]

Then multiclass with Favored Soul (just your aasimar powers growing stronger)Or with paladin (empasizing your link to cosmic Good). A protector aasimar would likely go Devotion or Ancients, while a scourge aasimar would go Vengeance. Or you could be twice fallen.

[Aett_Thorn]

Is it weird if I’m really hoping for a totally out of left field Monk archetype that they haven’t spoken of at all? Like out of left field, “Here’s the Dark Moon Monk!” I just wasn’t impressed at all with any of the UA Monk archetypes, except Tranquility, which simply isn’t my style.

Not weird at all, as I'm kind of hoping for the same thing. I wasn't a fan of the Monk UA subclasses either, and this is one spot where I'd be okay with them throwing a curveball at us. Heck, even if the curveball was just a "we've revisited the 4E Monk in Xanathar's, and now we think it works better." I know that they're trying to stay away from too much that is strictly Forgotten Realms, but an actual Hin Fist-type Monk, or a Drunken Master, would be great as well.

[Spiritchaser]

Not weird at all, as I'm kind of hoping for the same thing. I wasn't a fan of the Monk UA subclasses either, and this is one spot where I'd be okay with them throwing a curveball at us. Heck, even if the curveball was just a "we've revisited the 4E Monk in Xanathar's, and now we think it works better." I know that they're trying to stay away from too much that is strictly Forgotten Realms, but an actual Hin Fist-type Monk, or a Drunken Master, would be great as well.

If we’re wishing for this kind of thing I want an arcane paladin!

[Sception]

I'm hoping for at least a few total surprises, because a book full of slightly tweaked versions of content we already had access to isn't really the most exciting prospect. I'm looking forward to it either way, but still.

[Degwerks]

I can't think of any Barbarian type that anyone would want. Well maybe something with a strong Viking theme....

However I would love some kind of Swordmage or even an Arcane Paladin. Really want Hexblade Warlock to make it though. I hope Arcane Archer made it. Can't remember if it did.

Monks I think they can just skip.

I want to see more Warlock spells for 6-9th and a lot of gish style spells.

[Easy_Lee]

Monks I think they can just skip.

Makes me sad.

The trouble with monks currently is the disparity between subclasses. All wizards are pretty good. Rogue archetypes are generally balanced. (Revised) Ranger archetypes are roughly on par. But a few classes, such as Fighter, have considerable disparity between their subclasses.

Monk is one of those classes. Yes, you can play an elements or sun soul monk. But unless they have specific advantages in your campaign, such as a sun soul monk in an undead / vampire campaign, then you're better off with Long Death, Open Hand, or Shadow.

Monks, like fighters, need one or two more generally useful archetypes.

[Sception]

More spells is definitely something I want to see, almost as much as more classes & subclasses. Having a shadow sorcerer subclass is nice and all, but there aren't all that many shadowy spells on the sorcerer spell list to complement that theme.


The options for necromancy are also a bit, well, skeletal. It would be nice to be able to create some of the variant skeletons and zombies in the monster manual. not to mention some smaller things like undead cats or animated hands or whatever before level 5, and summoning spells for more ghostly type undead. And spells to augment undead that you've created, to help your skittles and zombags stay relevent up to when you're able to make ghouls & wights.

[mephnick]

Monks, like fighters, need one or two more generally useful archetypes.

Kensai is effective, if a bit boring.

[alchahest]

It would be awesome to see some kind of playable monk with elemental effects like those avatar cartoons. something that mixes elemental effects with kung fu in an effective and fun manner without just replicating wizard spells but less good.

That would be cool.

[Throne12]

If we’re wishing for this kind of thing I want an arcane paladin!

Yes yes I would love a arcane paladin

[Sception]

It would be awesome to see some kind of playable monk with elemental effects like those avatar cartoons. something that mixes elemental effects with kung fu in an effective and fun manner without just replicating wizard spells but less good.

That would be cool.

A problem that a lot of Xanthar and similar products are going to run into is that for several character concepts what the game needs is not new content, but for old content to be fixed. Elemental monk, Ranger in general and beastmaster in particular, Bladelock...

I like hexblade, but I don't really want it, it isn't what the warlock needs. The warlock needs the blade pact to be fixed in and of itself, so that it's a better working pact with any patron, not a patron that exists as a patch for the pact, that only fixes the pact's problems if you play that specific patron.

I wish they'd just fix the blade pact, then come back to the idea of an artifact or intelligent magic item as a patron. I think they'd make something a lot more interesting with it if they designing it as its own bit of content rather than a patch for something else.

Eh, we'll see.

[Potato_Priest]

I can't think of any Barbarian type that anyone would want. Well maybe something with a strong Viking theme....


I personally loved all the UA barbarians. They had more detail on how they fit into the world and what their schtick is than the totem barbarian, and provide more than a 2-subclass dichotomy. I also would like to see barbarians be something other than just another bear totem.

[Maxilian]

I personally loved all the UA barbarians. They had more detail on how they fit into the world and what their schtick is than the totem barbarian, and provide more than a 2-subclass dichotomy. I also would like to see barbarians be something other than just another bear totem.

I agree, they are all cool, but IMHO i think the one that is going to make it in is the Ancestral Guardian (as it have been more popular), though i hope to see the Storm Herald (loved that one), the Zealot was the worse one, as it was mechanically quite weak but it is really interesting though, IMHO one of the most interesting for the sake of flavor and giving an unique feel to the barbarian.

[DracoKnight]

Arcane Archer confirmed.

[Maxilian]

Arcane Archer confirmed.

I guess this was expected, though i did not expected to see 3 Fighters options shown one after the other.

Note: What happened with the Phoenix? Got so bummed down with the idea that Phoenix sorcerer may not come in XGtE that changed your avatar :smalltongue: ?

[DracoKnight]

I guess this was expected, though i did not expected to see 3 Fighters options shown one after the other.

Note: What happened with the Phoenix? Got so bummed down with the idea that Phoenix sorcerer may not come in XGtE that changed your avatar :smalltongue: ?

Yeah, that’s kinda odd. Although, I’m definitely not surprised that the AA made it into the book. I kinda want to make a melee version of it. (Actually that would pretty much be the Sword Mage.)

Nah, just getting ready to play a new character/promoting our new Dark Matter setting on my various social media accounts ^_^

Still completely in love with the Phoenix Sorcerer. :smallbiggrin:

As a side note: Mike Mearles kinda soft confirmed the Favored Soul Sorcerer for XGtE by name dropping its new name in the Arcane Archer vid: it’s now the Divine Soul Sorcerer.

[Aett_Thorn]

Arcane Archer link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClmO0QKDOxA

[Maxilian]

Yeah, that’s kinda odd. Although, I’m definitely not surprised that the AA made it into the book. I kinda want to make a melee version of it. (Actually that would pretty much be the Sword Mage.)

Nah, just getting ready to play a new character/promoting our new Dark Matter setting on my various social media accounts ^_^

Still completely in love with the Phoenix Sorcerer. :smallbiggrin:

As a side note: Mike Mearles kinda soft confirmed the Favored Soul Sorcerer for XGtE by name dropping its new name in the Arcane Archer vid: it’s now the Divine Soul Sorcerer.

Divine Soul Sorcerer, at least sounds better (but IMHO, that name is basically saying Aasimar), also i was expecting this one, as it looks like it was one of the most popular and/or wanted option for Sorcerer (having in mind how many different versions of it we got, i don't think people will be happy with the end result)

[nickl_2000]

Arcane Archer confirmed

https://youtu.be/ClmO0QKDOxA

[samcifer]

Arcane Archer confirmed

https://youtu.be/ClmO0QKDOxA

And he mentions the Divine Soul, which was formerly the Favored Soul sorc at the end of the vid.

[Foxhound438]

Arcane Archer confirmed

https://youtu.be/ClmO0QKDOxA

I am now the happiest little girl

[jaappleton]

Did I not call Favored Soul being renamed or what? :smallbiggrin:

[nickl_2000]

And he mentions the Divine Soul, which was formerly the Favored Soul sorc at the end of the vid.

Think I should update the OP with that our let it ride until there is a video?

[Mortis_Elrod]

Did I not call Favored Soul being renamed or what? :smallbiggrin:

Seemed only reasonable, considering people couldn't separate the name with previous versions and such.

[DracoKnight]

Think I should update the OP with that our let it ride until there is a video?

I'd take it as soft confirmation. It could be in XGtE, but it could just as easily be the name of draft 4 that shows up in Unearthed Arcana a couple of months after XGtE, when they're gearing up for Mordenkainen's Guide to the Planes.

[Aett_Thorn]

Think I should update the OP with that our let it ride until there is a video?

Put it up there, but with an asterisk until the video comes out?

[nickl_2000]

https://youtu.be/ClmO0QKDOxA
Arcane Archer summary on mobile, so not as good as others.

-character based on the concept of an Elven sniper who is hunting down a green dragon who destroyed her village.
-choice of arrows from each magic school.
-Elven version of an assassin.

[nickl_2000]

Put it up there, but with an asterisk until the video comes out?

Good call. Done

[jaappleton]

Mearls: "I like designing unique mechanics, so this is the Arcane Archer's thing, nobody else gets it."

HOW MANY THINGS HAVE YOU GIVEN VERSIONS OF THE BATTLEMASTER MANEUVERS & SUPERIORITY DICE, MIKE?! HOW MANY?!

[GandalfTheWhite]

...when they're gearing up for Mordenkainen's Guide to the Planes.

So long as it's MGttP, and not Elminster's Guide to the Planes. 'Cuz f*ck Elminster.

[Eragon123]

Mearls: "I like designing unique mechanics, so this is the Arcane Archer's thing, nobody else gets it."

HOW MANY THINGS HAVE YOU GIVEN VERSIONS OF THE BATTLEMASTER MANEUVERS & SUPERIORITY DICE, MIKE?! HOW MANY?!

None that have made it to print. Though the fact that there is a feat for those maneuvers....

[Foxhound438]

Mearls: "I like designing unique mechanics, so this is the Arcane Archer's thing, nobody else gets it."

HOW MANY THINGS HAVE YOU GIVEN VERSIONS OF THE BATTLEMASTER MANEUVERS & SUPERIORITY DICE, MIKE?! HOW MANY?!

I think JC said in the cavalier video (samurai maybe?) that no one liked that practice and so they are finally going to stop.

[Easy_Lee]

Mearls: "I like designing unique mechanics, so this is the Arcane Archer's thing, nobody else gets it."

HOW MANY THINGS HAVE YOU GIVEN VERSIONS OF THE BATTLEMASTER MANEUVERS & SUPERIORITY DICE, MIKE?! HOW MANY?!

This is presumably why they're dropping those maneuvers from the Cavalier.

[DracoKnight]

This is presumably why they're dropping those maneuvers from the Cavalier.

It's exactly why they dropped them from the Cavalier.

[jaappleton]

I think JC said in the cavalier video (samurai maybe?) that no one liked that practice and so they are finally going to stop.

Spell-less Ranger (In fairness, designed by Rodney Thompson, not MM)
Fighter: Scout
Fighter: Monster Slayer
Fighter: Cavalier (multiple versions, I believe!)

That's just what I can recall off the top of my head.

It was just such... a lazy crutch.

I'm glad it's finally gone.

[DracoKnight]

Spell-less Ranger (In fairness, designed by Rodney Thompson, not MM)
Fighter: Scout
Fighter: Monster Slayer
Fighter: Cavalier (multiple versions, I believe!)

That's just what I can recall off the top of my head.

It was just such... a lazy crutch.

I'm glad it's finally gone.

I'm right there with you. Sup Dice are the Battle Master's thing. I'm glad they stopped handing it out to every new Fighter. It'd be like handing out the Champion's expanded crit range to a Warlock at 1st-level...oh, wait.

DISCLAIMER: I do love the Hexblade as a patron option, as I'm sure everyone's noticed, but that one aspect bothers me a lot. And Hexblade's Curse should totally apply only to melee weapon attacks.

[rbstr]

Mearls: "I like designing unique mechanics, so this is the Arcane Archer's thing, nobody else gets it."

HOW MANY THINGS HAVE YOU GIVEN VERSIONS OF THE BATTLEMASTER MANEUVERS & SUPERIORITY DICE, MIKE?! HOW MANY?!


Unfortunate, because I feel like "Magical fighting class without just giving them spellcasting" is something that should be expanded. I think you could build a really cool class on that.

[jaappleton]

Unfortunate, because I feel like "Magical fighting class without just giving them spellcasting" is something that should be expanded. I think you could build a really cool class on that.

The Arcane Archer is a great start toward that.

[DracoKnight]

Unfortunate, because I feel like "Magical fighting class without just giving them spellcasting" is something that should be expanded. I think you could build a really cool class on that.

I...may or may not be working on this exact thing right now :smallbiggrin:

[Mortis_Elrod]

DISCLAIMER: I do love the Hexblade as a patron option, as I'm sure everyone's noticed, but that one aspect bothers me a lot. And Hexblade's Curse should totally apply only to melee weapon attacks.

Let's not take away my Hexbow options. Reduce it to weapon attacks.

[jaappleton]

Let's not take away my Hexbow options. Reduce it to weapon attacks.

Fair enough.

[DracoKnight]

Let's not take away my Hexbow options. Reduce it to weapon attacks.

Valid point, I guess.

[Spiritchaser]

Valid point, I guess.

I have no problem with this. Makes perfect sense to me

Edit: seems so obvious I feel a bit daft for not doing this to the rules before I let the table’s warlock run with them.

Ah well

[Mortis_Elrod]

I have no problem with this. Makes perfect sense to me

Edit: seems so obvious I feel a bit daft for not doing this to the rules before I let the table’s warlock run with them.

Ah well

Currently one of my favorite builds 12 levels of HexBow and then 8 levels into whatever kind of archer (rogue/ranger/arcane archer etc)

[Spiritchaser]

Currently one of my favorite builds 12 levels of HexBow and then 8 levels into whatever kind of archer (rogue/ranger/arcane archer etc)

I have a STR>CHA>CON GWM F1/ hexblade bladelock at my table who loves the versatility. His eldritch blast does not need to be as powerful it could become. Right now it’s not a huge deal as his CHA could be higher, but that’ll change soon. This is a change I need to seriously consider making.

[Millstone85]

I am both happy and disappointed.

I like the idea of a gish who knows how to put temporary enchantments on the equipment they use, as distinct from one who juggles between spellcasting and martial stuff.

But that should cover all armors and weapons, not just ammunition. Especially when spellcasting is mostly a ranged business already.

My fear is that the arcane archer, the forge cleric and the artificer will all come close but no cigar.

Edit: Another hope would be a half-psionicist.

[Unoriginal]

Mearls: "I like designing unique mechanics, so this is the Arcane Archer's thing, nobody else gets it."

HOW MANY THINGS HAVE YOU GIVEN VERSIONS OF THE BATTLEMASTER MANEUVERS & SUPERIORITY DICE, MIKE?! HOW MANY?!

He said the team thought people would be interested in seeing this mechanic expanded, and that they'll drop it due to negative feedback.

IMO the superiority dice were fine to share, but the manoeuvres would have needed to be nearly 100% different each time.

[Temperjoke]

He said the team thought people would be interested in seeing this mechanic expanded, and that they'll drop it due to negative feedback.

IMO the superiority dice were fine to share, but the manoeuvres would have needed to be nearly 100% different each time.

Yeah, I don't mind the idea of superiority dice being the Fighter class thing, even though the other PHB subclasses didn't have them, but each of the classes would need different things to do with them, kinda like how fighters, rangers, and paladins all have slightly different versions of Fighting Style.

[Beechgnome]

Yeah, I don't mind the idea of superiority dice being the Fighter class thing, even though the other PHB subclasses didn't have them, but each of the classes would need different things to do with them, kinda like how fighters, rangers, and paladins all have slightly different versions of Fighting Style.

I thought there was room for a superiority-dice style rogue that focuses on dirty fighting, with different manoeuvres to blind, hamstring and the like. I had toyed with the idea while building a homebrew Rogue subclass based on the old Yakusa class from 1E, but eventually abandoned it for the same reason the others don't work: I want to steal trip attack and feint and half of the battle master moves. And then it feels too similar.

[Millstone85]

It is too late for that sort of design, but I wouldn't have minded if the PHB had got a whole chapter on martial maneuvers just like there is one on magic spells, and all martial and/or magic subclasses would have referenced those.

[Dudu]

Do we have any idea of the mechanics somewhere?

All I see on the videos are flavor talk and some core notion of how the subclass should work. Like cavalier locking foes.

For the cavalier, for example, I was expecting an active form of tanking, that wasn't dodge. Something like, "raise shields" and you get temp HP for a round. And while you're in that stance you can make some unique reactions and perhaps even increase your threatening area.

[Temperjoke]

Do we have any idea of the mechanics somewhere?

All I see on the videos are flavor talk and some core notion of how the subclass should work. Like cavalier locking foes.

For the cavalier, for example, I was expecting an active form of tanking, that wasn't dodge. Something like, "raise shields" and you get temp HP for a round. And while you're in that stance you can make some unique reactions and perhaps even increase your threatening area.

Nah, these releases are basically teaser trailers, they won't release real details because they want people to buy the book that's coming out. But these classes were in UA articles, so you can cross reference the videos with the UA articles to get a sense of it. But no concrete details.

[guachi]

Ugghh....

They should have made superiority dice a main component of the Fighter and not a niche of one subclass. What a failed opportunity. I liked the superiority dice on the Scout. Especially because they gave it extra uses for it that the Battlemaster didn't have.

Every class and its little brother gets spell slots. But God forbid you give superiority dice to anything but the Battlemaster

My desire for this book drops further and further. Of the confirmed subclasses so far the only one I actually like is the Forge Cleric. The rest look like left overs.

[Millstone85]

Some of the links in the OP are now redundant.
The playlist doesn't get updated as soon as the video is released, but it does get updated.

[Saiga]

It is too late for that sort of design, but I wouldn't have minded if the PHB had got a whole chapter on martial maneuvers just like there is one on magic spells, and all martial and/or magic subclasses would have referenced those.

I agree. I'm glad the cavalier had superiority dice removed, because I feel like they weren't handled in an interesting way. But I think it would have worked if at least Fighters had martial maneuvers as a core class concept, so that each subclass using didn't have to have half it's features dedicated to just added superiority dice to the class.

D&D Next playtest actually had 'Martial Dice' and lists of martial maneuvers by class that were much like spell lists - it seemed like a good way to be similar to 4E's "everyone has special abilities" without making martials and spellcasters play the same. I wish they had kept that for all classes, it would have been great. It also probably would have made the original half-caster Bard work better, Martial Dice could have been combined with their Inspiration Dice for more flexibility.

[Easy_Lee]

I agree. I'm glad the cavalier had superiority dice removed, because I feel like they weren't handled in an interesting way. But I think it would have worked if at least Fighters had martial maneuvers as a core class concept, so that each subclass using didn't have to have half it's features dedicated to just added superiority dice to the class.

D&D Next playtest actually had 'Martial Dice' and lists of martial maneuvers by class that were much like spell lists - it seemed like a good way to be similar to 4E's "everyone has special abilities" without making martials and spellcasters play the same. I wish they had kept that for all classes, it would have been great. It also probably would have made the original half-caster Bard work better, Martial Dice could have been combined with their Inspiration Dice for more flexibility.

Consistency of design is definitely not a 5e strong point. My impression is they tried too hard to make it like 3.5e and not like 4e without fully understanding what people did and didn't like about each. Overall, WotC did well with 5e. But it's hard not to get a just a little dismayed thinking about what could have been.

Off topic, but rogues have this even more than fighters do. The base class doesn't add a single consumable feature until level 20.

[Unoriginal]

Eh, the Fighter is good as it is. It seems a lot of people really don't like the Superiority Dice outside of the Battlemaster, for some reasons, though.

[jaappleton]

Eh, the Fighter is good as it is. It seems a lot of people really don't like the Superiority Dice outside of the Battlemaster, for some reasons, though.

To use it as often as they have for previous UAs, it seemed to me like it was becoming a lazy design crutch. That’s my criticism of it. Battlemaster is fine. I just wish the archetypes they tried the Superiority Dice on got something more unique.

Ah, what could’ve been.

[Hrugner]

To use it as often as they have for previous UAs, it seemed to me like it was becoming a lazy design crutch. That’s my criticism of it. Battlemaster is fine. I just wish the archetypes they tried the Superiority Dice on got something more unique.


That's pretty much it. You'd get this archetype full of battlemaster maneuvers and instantly start wondering either "Is this better at its stated goal than just playing a battlemaster" or "why didn't they just give these maneuvers to the battlemaster.

[Saiga]

Eh, the Fighter is good as it is. It seems a lot of people really don't like the Superiority Dice outside of the Battlemaster, for some reasons, though.

I think that's only because of the way it's handled. That it ended up being Battlemaster-exclusive in the PHB makes it awkward to put to other subclasses while still having room for unique mechanics. Superiority dice eats up a lot of subclass 'budget', so to speak.

I do think the Fighter is good as it is, just that having dice as a core feature would work best for subclasses that used it. I'm fine with current Fighter with just Battlemaster, or a hypothetical Fighter with superiority dice as a core and multiple subclasses using that resource.

[Thunderbird]

For some reason I thought the Shadow Sorcerer wouldn't make it. A pleasant surprise. :smallsmile:
Now looking forward to the Hexblade.

[rbstr]

Spellcasting is pretty much just as lazy as giving Maneuvers to multiple classes/archetypes.
They're very close to the some thing mechanically - get a resource to spend on a selection of variety of features.

Each new spell level usually takes up a class's whole level of features too.

[alchahest]

the difference that spells have the following:
way, way more options, both within a given spell list and in general
scaling effects on many(most?) spells, cantrips in particular don't even require an investment
different levels of spells - when you hit level 12, your options are quite a bit broader and more potent than when you hit level 3

maneuvers have none of this. They have a small pool of small effects that were being spread around like a flu

[Saiga]

On top of that, Spellcasting is a core feature of the system. Which is why I said I would like martial maneuvers as a core part of the system, with the expanded options that would bring.

[DracoKnight]

Okay, so looking at what’s been confirmed thus far, what do we think Monday will bring?

[samcifer]

Okay, so looking at what’s been confirmed thus far, what do we think Monday will bring?

Liking the new weapons, esp. the bastard sword

[Unoriginal]

Why bastard sword? There are already Versatile swords.

[samcifer]

Why bastard sword? There are already Versatile swords.

they offer the most damage on a one-handed sword as well as d12s don't get enough love in this edition.

[DracoKnight]

Liking the new weapons, esp. the bastard sword

It took me a moment to realize you were talking about the weapons in my sig...

>_>
<_<

[nickl_2000]

Okay, so looking at what’s been confirmed thus far, what do we think Monday will bring?

Probably the divine soul Sorcerer. I'm betting it was on Mearls mind when making the Arcane Archer video

[Foxhound438]

we've yet to see any videos on barbarians, monks, paladins, or the wizard, so odds are we'll get a taste of one of those.