Are pathfinder kobolds an overpowered race?

[Zhentarim]

For starters, you get +2 dexterity, which is huge. Also, you can get unlimited flight that can't be dispelled by level 11, AND you can potentially have +15 to diplomacy at level 1.

[legomaster00156]

No. That's pretty much all that can be said. They are not remotely close to overpowered.

[Psyren]

No, they're not - both inherently, and especially compared to 3.5.

If you want to discuss those particular techniques (and all-day flight by level 11 is not a big deal) you should probably share the methods you used to attain them.

[Kurald Galain]

For starters, you get +2 dexterity, which is huge.

Plenty of races get +2 to dex, you're going to call all of those OP? Heck, goblins get +4 to dex...

[grarrrg]

If Draconic Paragon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/draconic-paragon-kobold) is how you are getting flight...then 4 feats for 20ft. flight speed (and other randomy bonuses) isn't all that stupendous.

[Firebug]

Aasimar can get all-day flight(also can't be dispelled) at level 10, for only 2 feats and a Con of 13. Azata- and Garuda- blooded also get +2 dex. Azata-blooded also get a +2 bonus to diplomacy, and +2 Cha. So single rank, class skill, trait +2, 18 starting Cha, Skill Focus = +15 starting diplomacy.

[AlmaPenzare]

They get +2 to dex sure, but also get -4 str and -2 con. The average kobold has con 8 str 6. In my game (Where kobolds are actually a fairly major player) we tried to give them a fighting chance by dropping the penalty to con and upping their dex, and just making it -4 str +4 dex. It works well for the character of them

[Psyren]

Strix and Syrinx get flight at level 1.

The Diplomacy thing is not as big a deal in PF as it would be in 3.5.

[Milo v3]

I have to assume this is a joke thread.

[Wartex1]

Kobolds are perhaps the weakest race in the whole game. There is not a single character that would be best (mechanically superior, as this is about mechanics) as a Kobold then as something else, save Kobold exclusive archetypes.

Granted, well-played Kobolds are hilarious, and I'd love to be a Kobold in say, a monster party (Kobold, Orc, Skeleton, and Drow, for instance).

[Psyren]

I have to assume this is a joke thread.

Some of his threads do seem a bit minimalist / baity.


Kobolds are perhaps the weakest race in the whole game. There is not a single character that would be best (mechanically superior, as this is about mechanics) as a Kobold then as something else, save Kobold exclusive archetypes.

My hunch is that Paizo went nuclear on them due to their reputation in 3.5. A net -2 is going too far in my opinion though.

[Wartex1]

What was up with Kobolds in 3.5 besides Pun-Pun and Serpent Kingdoms?

[Jack_Simth]

What was up with Kobolds in 3.5 besides Pun-Pun and Serpent Kingdoms?

Tucker's Kobolds, mostly. However, that partly revolved around "traps they couldn't afford" in the mix. There's also the kobold domain, I suppose. And the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage.

[Psyren]

What was up with Kobolds in 3.5 besides Pun-Pun and Serpent Kingdoms?

Races of the Dragon added several options to them that ended up boosting them above many other 3.5. races. The most notable (and contentious) was Dragonwrought, but they also got specialized equipment, feats and other things.

[Eldariel]

I mean, every Wizard can fly all day by level 9 and Clerics can Animate a flying Zombie thingy to ride on level 5. Druids get a ridable Dire Bat even earlier than that. Getting slow all-day flight with a stupid big investment by the teens really isn't worth mentioning.

[Fouredged Sword]

3.5 gave us dragonwraught, a feat that one it's own wasn't that bad. It granted immunity to a few things that dragons are immune to. A great feat, but not THAT great.

It was when people started looking at all the rules that dragons get special or get to ignore that things got broken. 3.5 should have not made dragons their own special thing with so many weird rules. They ARE the title monster though, so I guess it makes sense they got all the fun stuff.