Trying to build a warlock-based dread witch.

[Incarnate]

Though it seems that its going to be a bit difficult on the entry requirements. I'm basically trying to create a themebased villain.

Entry Requirements
Saving Throws: Base Will save +4
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 3 ranks
Spellcasting: Ability to cast cause fear and scare
Special: Must have suffered at least one fear effect against which she failed her save.

As far as I know there aren't any invocations that essentially is cause fear or scare.

Obviously, I could consider taking levels in an arcane spellcasting class, but if possible I'd like it to be based on the warlock class and without losing to many unnecesary levels in other classes.
However, if I should go for an arcane spellcaster class I'm considering the Death Master or the Dread Necromancer.

Any thoughts on how this could be possible?

[Malimar]

Interesting task.

Obviously, the easiest entry in this case is full-caster-who-gets-fear-and-scare 3/warlock 1. But if we can find a way to cast scare at level 1, you can get in at caster 1/warlock 1 (which gets you the Will save requirement, which gets you in even earlier than the PrC expects).

Exactly what you want is the Precocious Apprentice feat (Complete Arcane). Gives you a single 2nd-level spell, which is all you need.

Full-caster-who-gets-fear-and-scare 1/Warlock 1 with cause fear as a spell known and Precocious Apprentice(scare) as a feat. Get into Dread Witch at 3rd level. Tweak some of the Dread Witch's class features to apply to invocations instead of spells. Done.

[Incarnate]

Interesting task.

Obviously, the easiest entry in this case is full-caster-who-gets-fear-and-scare 3/warlock 1. But if we can find a way to cast scare at level 1, you can get in at caster 1/warlock 1 (which gets you the Will save requirement, which gets you in even earlier than the PrC expects).

Exactly what you want is the Precocious Apprentice feat (Complete Arcane). Gives you a single 2nd-level spell, which is all you need.

Full-caster-who-gets-fear-and-scare 1/Warlock 1 with cause fear as a spell known and Precocious Apprentice(scare) as a feat. Get into Dread Witch at 3rd level. Tweak some of the Dread Witch's class features to apply to invocations instead of spells. Done.

That sounds quite awesome.

Both of the two mentioned caster classes gets both cause fear and scare, so it seems quite worth it to spend a feat to save two caster levels.

Tweaking some of the dread witch class features through game mechanics or dm fudging so to speak?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Master of Terror, Fearful Empowerment, and Greater Master of Terror only function on spells. You need DM fiat to use them on SLAs. I would think it's not a problem balance-wise, but it's something to keep in mind.

There are a two fear-based invocations in Dragon Magic: Frightful Presence and Terrifying Roar. Then there's Frightful Blast in Complete Arcane, which can be used with blast shapes to affect multiple targets. Other than that, warlocks aren't that good at fear. If this villain needs to impress the PCs, you could simply add scare as least invocation, fear as lesser invocation, and maddening whispers (panicked version only) as greater invocation. They're not great abilities, but at-will, combined with judicious use of stealth, they can be effective.

[Malimar]

Tweaking some of the dread witch class features through game mechanics or dm fudging so to speak?

Master of Terror, Fearful Empowerment, and Greater Master of Terror only function on spells. You need DM fiat to use them on SLAs. I would think it's not a problem balance-wise, but it's something to keep in mind.
Yeah, this. You have to DM fiat those things to make the idea work at all.


If this villain needs to impress the PCs, you could simply add scare as least invocation, fear as lesser invocation, and maddening whispers (panicked version only) as greater invocation. They're not great abilities, but at-will, combined with judicious use of stealth, they can be effective.
This is also not a bad idea, albeit straying even further into the realm of DM fiat. (If you do this, then once this villain is revealed or defeated you could open these invocation options up to players if there's a warlock or a dragonfire adept among the PCs.)


There are a two fear-based invocations in Dragon Magic: Frightful Presence and Terrifying Roar. Then there's Frightful Blast in Complete Arcane, which can be used with blast shapes to affect multiple targets. Other than that, warlocks aren't that good at fear.
As an intermediate level of DM fiat, you could just make these invocations count as fulfilling the spell requirements for the PrC.

[Incarnate]

Master of Terror, Fearful Empowerment, and Greater Master of Terror only function on spells. You need DM fiat to use them on SLAs. I would think it's not a problem balance-wise, but it's something to keep in mind.

There are a two fear-based invocations in Dragon Magic: Frightful Presence and Terrifying Roar. Then there's Frightful Blast in Complete Arcane, which can be used with blast shapes to affect multiple targets. Other than that, warlocks aren't that good at fear. If this villain needs to impress the PCs, you could simply add scare as least invocation, fear as lesser invocation, and maddening whispers (panicked version only) as greater invocation. They're not great abilities, but at-will, combined with judicious use of stealth, they can be effective.

That was what I was thinking - dm fiat. You're right in general they aren't that good at fear, hence why I'm trying to make a villain thats based on the warlock that enters the dread witch.

Of the mentioned two caster classes: Death Master and Dread Necromancer I can't really decide which to take.

If we assume the dm fiat is granted for both tweaking class abilities so they work on SLA's and the requirements for the dread witch is passed because of requirement spells becoming invocations along with some other fear based spells becoming invocations. Then what could this villain be build towards class wise after the dread witch class has been leveled through.

[Incarnate]

I wonder if there are other PrC's or baseclasses that would work well with the theme of a fear warlock? Since Dread Witch is an arcane caster class it might be beneficial to add Nightmare Spinner afterwards, then go for Eldritch Theurge or another PrC that adds to warlock?

The build could look something like.

Caster1/Warlock1/Dread Witch5/Nightmare Spinner5/Eldritch Theurge5 - which leaves three levels to play with, maybe some Shadowcraft Mage?

[Rebel7284]

SPECIFIC SPELL REQUIREMENTS
A requirement based on a specific spell measures whether
the character or creature in question is capable of producing
the necessary effect, and as such, invocations and spell-like
abilities that generate the relevant effect meet the requirements
for specific spell knowledge. For example, a prestige
class with a spellcasting requirement of “Must know (or be
able to cast) darkness” is met by a warlock who chooses darkness
as one of her invocations, or by any creature with darkness as
a spell-like ability.


Therefore my suggestion:
Race anything -> Necropolitan -> Spellstiched [Scare, Fear, a few others]
Warlock 1/Sorcerer 1/Dread Witch 5/Whatever

Breaks Wealth By Level by a LOT, but it's an NPC, so who cares? Some other big bad necromancer had the cash and XP. :)

[Malimar]

Of the mentioned two caster classes: Death Master and Dread Necromancer I can't really decide which to take.
My sense is that Dread Necromancer is more interesting (especially for an NPC who can have skeleton minions for free), but you're only taking one level of it, so I dunno if it makes much difference.


I wonder if there are other PrC's or baseclasses that would work well with the theme of a fear warlock? Since Dread Witch is an arcane caster class it might be beneficial to add Eldritch Theurge afterwards, then go for Nightmare Spinner or another PrC that adds to warlock?
Here's a whole handbook about fear (http://web.archive.org/web/20120520034053/http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0). I can't be bothered to read through it myself for recommendations to pass on to you, sorry.

I'd suggest hellfire warlock, but really this villain should probably be primarily a debuffer and leave being damage firehoses to the minions.

[Incarnate]

I'm considering the Dark Speech + Dark Whispers + 1 Level Binder - its seems very fitting on such a character such as this one.

I'm also toying with implementing cleric, both because it could make sense story-wise but also because I'm considering to add mystic theurge as well.


My sense is that Dread Necromancer is more interesting (especially for an NPC who can have skeleton minions for free), but you're only taking one level of it, so I dunno if it makes much difference.

Here's a whole handbook about fear (http://web.archive.org/web/20120520034053/http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0). I can't be bothered to read through it myself for recommendations to pass on to you, sorry.

I'd suggest hellfire warlock, but really this villain should probably be primarily a debuffer and leave being damage firehoses to the minions.

Thank you for sharing that handbook of fear, some really nice advice and insights in that one. :)

IF fearful empowerment works with summon monsters it would make sense to add some summon spells/invocations.