A Warlock!

[Baby Gary]

so I am about to play a new game with some of my friends and I am thinking about playing a Warlock (which you might have guessed from the title).

so first for my questions. what are some good invocations that I should always chose no matter what, also what are some very good ones that have a smaller range of application? How exactly does PrCs work with Warlocks? How viable is Warlock 20? What is a good way to assign abilities? and last but not least any tip or tricks for playing a warlock (also what items)

now for the numbers
--abilities are 30 point buy
--get a new feat at every odd level rather than 1,3,6 etc.
--currently at level 5
--all 1st party sources are allowed, but this is a mid OP game
--The other party members are a TWFer and a I-am-not-sure-what-but-most-likely-a-wizard
--any info is appreciated, I have never played an invocation user before

Thanks!

and as always if you have any questions I will try my best to answer them

[Rebel7284]

The first step is usually to read some handbooks. Here is one: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?252715-The-New-Warlock-Handbook-3-5-WIP

It also has some links to older ones.

In general, the Warlock is alright power wise. Due to invocation selection, there will be a couple of things it can do very well, but it will never ever get anything remotely near the power of dedicated spellcasters.

There are tons of possible builds of course. Some interesting ones include:
- Using Hellfire Warlock to boost your damage considerably at the cost of taking ability damage and then use a one level binder dip to heal the ability damage quickly.
- Using Cleric->Eldritch Disciple to persist Divine Power and then using Eldritch Glaive.
- If Dragon Magazine is allowed, combining Eldritch Claws with Beast Strike can be a lot of fun on a Warlock Monk.

Warlock 20 is playable, but is unlikely to shine at higher levels, especially if you have any spellcasters.

[Esprit15]

If you're not going for a melee warlock, eldritch spear is practically a must. Baleful Utterance is also stupidly useful.

[Gruftzwerg]

I recommend to read the handbook first to get a vague image of the possible warlock build types. Once you have set your mind for a type, it'll be easier to give you more fitting advises. Otherwise you'll get spammed with options ;)

Blastlock: focuses on Eldritch Blast + Eldritch Chain, often goes Hellfire Warlock (prc)

Glaivelock: focuses on Eldritch Glaive and also often takes the Hellfire Warlock lvls

Clawlock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?518880): focuses on Eldritch Claws (Dragon Magazine), dips often monk to get into Enlightened Fist. Can make brutal uberchargers (as in my linked build). If you want max DMG and have the guts to go melee glass-canon, this is the way to go.

versatile "Chameleon"-lock: chameleon 2 dip is often abused for the exchangeable feat you get (Extra Invocation says hi^^). In down-times can be used for crafting or creating Undead. On adventure days, you can choose a more offensive invocation/feat.

These are the most common warlock concepts and I would recommend to stick to one of em for your first warlock build to get a feeling on "how your few SLAs at will" will play out/pay off as character and get an impression of the class.

[Baby Gary]

just from a quick look over I can tell that things like See the Unseen combined with something like baleful utterance or eldritch spear can be very powerful. and those are all least invocations

[Gruftzwerg]

just from a quick look over I can tell that things like See the Unseen combined with something like baleful utterance or eldritch spear can be very powerful. and those are all least invocations

That always the downside with warlocks, that you are limited to pick only a few of em.

But at least for "least invocation" you can get around and get em via magic item:
"Codex Advocare" 20,000g gives you another least invocation.


edit: but remember that you most likely will invest into UMD (if you take at least warlock 4, giving you take10 on UMD). Things like "See the Unseen" can easily be covered by a cheap wand.

[Baby Gary]

Fair point, also at later levels you can be making any magic item you want if you take levels in Chameleon. It makes sense that you wouldn't want to learn any invocations that can easily be reproduced by cheap magic items.

I want at least 12 levels of Warlock (Imbue Item) and 2 levels in Chameleon (for the floating feat), that leaves me with 6 free levels, what should I do there? more Warlock? Hellfire Adept? Something else?

[Gruftzwerg]

Fair point, also at later levels you can be making any magic item you want if you take levels in Chameleon. It makes sense that you wouldn't want to learn any invocations that can easily be reproduced by cheap magic items.

I want at least 12 levels of Warlock (Imbue Item) and 2 levels in Chameleon (for the floating feat), that leaves me with 6 free levels, what should I do there? more Warlock? Hellfire Adept? Something else?

Depends on what you want to focus on. If you want to stick to blasting go Hellfire.

But if you want to stick to crafting (as it looks to me atm), there are better option:

Blood Magus:
dip up to 4 lvls (to avoid loss in invocation-progress; unless you like the theme and want to stick to it, but I wouldn't recommend that).
So your first character died, why not let the second one die too (and get resurrected due to prc entry requirement)^^. This prc gives you special crafting skills. Scribe scrolls on your skin with bloody scratches and brew potions in your own bloodsystem (can be shared with 1 other person, nice for otherwise self only buffs).


Effigy Master: a single lvl dip is enough to enable you to build effigies. If you like to have some constructs/effigies to work with, this is a nice option.

Mindbender: is another interesting single lvl dip prc. It gives you telepathy 100ft. which enables you to take the great Mindsight feat.

[Axel_690]

Don't forget the 'Mortal Bane' feat from Book of Vile Darkness.

Improved Familiar for Coure Eladrin(Book of Exalted Deeds?) gets you a very useful Na'vi.

My table likes to house rule that the Hideous Blow invocation is a free action to use. Combine a Hellfire Warlock with a couple levels of Pyrokineticist for lots of fiery fun. (Use Hellfire Hideous Blow and Weapon Afire on the Firelash.)

Telflammar Shadowlord is fun for a glaivelock or clawlock.

[Gruftzwerg]

My table likes to house rule that the Hideous Blow invocation is a free action to use.

How should I imagine this? Full attack with Eldritch Claws (with Beast Strike) and add Hideous Blow on top of that??

Ain't Eldritch Claws + Beast Strike enough dmg? Or did I get something wrong here?

[Axel_690]

How should I imagine this? Full attack with Eldritch Claws (with Beast Strike) and add Hideous Blow on top of that??

Ain't Eldritch Claws + Beast Strike enough dmg? Or did I get something wrong here?

It's so we can avoid taking the Eldritch Claws feat. Also useful for Two-Weapon Fighting with weapons, and Two-Handed fighting while still getting EB damage.

It's not intended to be stacked with Eldritch Claws.

[Gruftzwerg]

It's so we can avoid taking the Eldritch Claws feat. Also useful for Two-Weapon Fighting with weapons, and Two-Handed fighting while still getting EB damage.

It's not intended to be stacked with Eldritch Claws.

still to strong imho. Hideous Blow allows for Blast Essences. Combined with Full Attack you can forcefully apply conditions on targets due to multiple save rolls for a single target (not possible with Eldritch Claws since the feat doesn't allow Essences).

edit: This is the powerlvl of Duskblades lvl 13 Arcane Channeling ability backed into a lvl1 ability..

[Telonius]

I'd consider your role in the party carefully if you're going to be a Warlock. If you're going to be pulling Party Face duties - a common role, considering Charisma-based save DCs and Bluff on the skill list - you might seriously consider Beguiling Influence. Baleful Utterance (as already mentioned) is extraordinarily useful, as is Fell Flight in a mid-op game. (There are lots of ways to get Flight, but most of them involve loads of gp, which you might not have).

If you are going to PrC, consider your options carefully. Eldritch Disciple and Hellfire Warlock have already been mentioned. One level of Binder is recommended if you go Hellfire. (Binding Naberius is generally considered kosher, while something like Strongheart Vest from Incarnum is a lot more hotly contested; be prepared for rules questions either way). If you don't have an Artificer (or other dedicated crafter) in the group, I would strongly consider taking at least 12 levels of Warlock so you can get Imbue Item.

[Axel_690]

still to strong imho. Hideous Blow allows for Blast Essences. Combined with Full Attack you can forcefully apply conditions on targets due to multiple save rolls for a single target (not possible with Eldritch Claws since the feat doesn't allow Essences).

edit: This is the powerlvl of Duskblades lvl 13 Arcane Channeling ability backed into a lvl1 ability..

Eldritch Glaive can do the same thing, and the good debuff essences don't come online till later levels anyway. At early levels it's not unlike a Rogue's Sneak Attack, or Iaijutsu Focus, or the Scout's Skirmish. Just a little extra damage.

[animewatcha]

Lawful monk or chaotic monk with travel devo?

[Goaty14]

Always take fell flight. If you're going into a blastlock (and therefore hellfire warlock), make sure you dip binder and bind naberius so you don't die dealing damage.

A 2 level chameleon dip allows you to have 1 "floating" bonus feat that you can change each morning. Do this with extra invocation and "The Dead Walk" invocation for a free animate dead